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I have no strong view on this, but if this is your argument to show that non-asthma sufferers won't benefit from asthma medicine, then it's pretty weak. I know you're using an analogy, but when it comes to science/medecine, analogies are irrelevant. What do the studies show? Are there any that have looked at healthy athletes' response to asthma meds?

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I would much rather see more AGers busted than pros. Pros will dope and get away with it. I accept this and know there is little to be done. When I watch sports I assume they are all doping.

But this bust of these AGers is fantastic! Not just that they got busted, but the WAY they got busted. If they had just failed a random test, taken unexpectedly at a race, it would do little to deter others. But the fact that a) law enforcement was involved, and b) they were busted via the source of their purchases, will be a far greater deterrant for the next AGer thinking of buying EPO on the web.

Spot on. The common theme in this thread and all the others like it, is that there are a significant number of folks who rationalize away the issue. They'll tell you that it doesn't matter for age groupers, that they have a medical condition that calls for the drug, they are leveling the playing field, whatever. I am not directly accusing anyone who posted those comments, but I can guarantee you that all those who dope have rationalized their cheating in their own mind using many of these same arguments. Given that so many comments tend to write off the moral wrong, you can damn well bet that cheating in the age group ranks is WIDESPREAD.

I agree with this, which is why I think if a race organization is going to spend the big $$$ to do tests ($1500+ per test?), they should target the podium and/or people taking qualifying spots.
I'm a MOP'er, and I couldn't care less whether I place 100th or 90th. But when I get faster and have a chance to get a roll down slot for worlds, it would be nice to know that I wouldn't miss out on that due to cheating.
It makes no sense to test someone in 100th place if you aren't testing the podium.
For the time being, I don't waste my time worrying about who is on HRT, and instead focus on how to break that damn 5 hour mark at MT 70.3!

If your life is so empty that you have to pump up your ego because you trained more than others in completely different life situations then I feel sorry for you. Amateur sport is recreation. That's all it is. And as much as you might think the people you brag to care about it, they don't.

To maybe help clear things up... I live in a completely different city and state than my 2 brothers, the amount of training that we have done together is very minimal and has been next to zero the last three years. Also we are 12 years apart... as much as there moral and ethics are questioned given the situation; i do not think either of them would feel very good about helping there younger brother into doping

That is a piss poor, strawman argument that could be applied with the same errant logic to any activity. Everyone is in a different life situation - pro or age grouper - but that doesn't mean that people can't strive to be good at what they choose to do be it at work, recreation, church, or whatever. And whatever your choice, it is understandable that people are upset if you don't follow the rules of that activity. In the end, we all have the same allotted time, 24 hours a day, to apply where we see fit.

I guess you could say that about most things in life: money, house, car. I guess you live in a van down by the river.

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I *heart* weak, dumb ass people...

Like you Kay - I love the fact that people that are cheating are getting busted. Good for the sport for sure. I do know so many pro athletes that train their butts off - dedicate years of their lives to training and racing, pushing their bodies to the breaking point and they dont take banned substances. These people are my idols - they are pros and they dont dope. They are at the highest level of the sport and are clean. So not every pro dopes i am conifdent of that. They show us the limits of possibility. Are some of the best doping - likely but not all of them. I remember a t-shirt one of my buddies back in university had - he was a gym rat doper - he said and had it emblazoned on a t-shirt "if you dont cheat, you are only cheating yourself". Many many of us are not close to be the best - but imagine for a second you are knocking on the door of being the best and you know you are competing against some of your peers that are doping and you say no - i am not cheating. These guys are my heros - amazing super athletes with strong moral compasses. Maybe we dont all know their names but many do - and they are the true heros!!

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Michael Hay - helped on the journey by the great folks at ZiZU Optics, (for the custom fit), and Bialkowlski's TRYSPORT

This is a great discussion - Ed i get it - to you and your friends and your family your finish is important - it is. But for people that are looking at the overall race results - they are not going to look much past the top ten. So a pro's finish is more meaningful to many people - its why i look at results- i want to see who won the race - it means something to me. That is not to diminish your result in any way. I would scream and yell and cheer you across the line if i was at your race. Its just for a different reason than the scream for winner. Respect for all that do this tough crazy sport.

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Michael Hay - helped on the journey by the great folks at ZiZU Optics, (for the custom fit), and Bialkowlski's TRYSPORT

I listed several studies on the previous page.....all show no performance benefit to healthy athletes when given asthma meds.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

What exactly does "doesn't mean dick" mean? Please elaborate......amateur athletes are told time and time again that we race "a separate race" so I would have to agree with RowToTri.

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leslie myers
http://www.foodsensenow.com

it looks like the "The Anemia Patient Group" just took down a cyclist:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/...istribution-website/

did the radcliffe cheats ever get back to racing this year?