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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
As I noted earlier in this thread:

1.) An official is made aware of a breach of the rules.
2.) A determination of whether that breach occurred is made by officials. For outside assistance, if it is determined that it occurred and there can be a time penalty served, a time penalty will occur (don't quote me, but I'm 95% sure it is 30 seconds for a half, one minute for a full). If a time penalty can NOT rectify the situation, the only other penalty available is disqualification.
3.) The athlete is allowed to appeal the rules infraction post-race, at which point an official's final judgment will come to pass.

So, following your post:
1.) IM Officials were made aware of a potential breach of the rules.
2.) They investigated it and determined that it took place; because it happened after she crossed the finish line, the only available remedy is disqualification.
3.) We do not know whether it was appealed; however, given that race results are still not finalized, I would suggest she has.

I understand the above. Was hoping for more details on this.

Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [cherry_bomb] [ In reply to ]
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cherry_bomb wrote:
c365 wrote:
cherry_bomb wrote:
It's interesting that the other female podium athletes in the race, although referencing the situation, have not mentioned or congratulated Svenja on her race on social media. Contrast that to when Magnus Ditlev was DSQ after winning recently for inadvertently cutting the course (I forget which race) - the other pros were outraged and planning to donate their prize money to him before it was overturned.

Seems quite telling to me, I think if they perceived that the DSQ was unfairly given they would show a little more support.


Insert stereotype of vicious female competitor and strict school marms that demand we follow the rules.

Or insert stereotype of male good ol' boys club that doesn't think rules apply to them and can be bent as the situation warrants.



Actually I think it is more common to be the other way round. The female pros as a rule seem to be generally much more friendly and supportive of each other. There was a Challenge race last year when Lisa Norden and some others were directed the wrong way on the bike and many of the other pros were sympathetic and angry (with the race organiser) on their behalf.

Whereas the male pros seem to be constantly putting each other down under the guise of banter/smack talk.
I don't know about the general attitudes. But this made me think of Rebekah Keat tossing Chrissie Wellington a tube or inflator at Kona in 2008 when Wellington was having problems fixing a flat.

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [adnama] [ In reply to ]
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adnama wrote:
From the Ironman tracker, it looks like the first female across the line at Ironman Ireland (Svenja Thoes) was DQd shortly after crossing the line for outside assistance. Anyone know the story? That's huge - has a professional winner ever been disqualified before for a non-doping offense?

In 2011, Marcel Zamora (multiple winner) was DQd at Embrunman for tossing a jacket during the bike.
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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fredly wrote:
"In theory, in the US you’d be presumed innocent if you broke a law. "


- fixed that for you.

lol
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
Here's a 'first hand account' by @Dan the Man of Thoes' bike riding skillz, from the 'I'm outraged at people accusing other people of malicious actions' thread started by Sheridan.
Dan The Man wrote:
Svenja Thoes did draft at Ironman Ireland.

I raced the age group race which started 10 minutes behind the pro field and during the bike section I caught and passed most of the female pro athletes. About 60 miles in to the bike I caught and passed Thoes and thought nothing of it until I noticed her shadow (it was super sunny!) riding very close to me, this continued for a few minutes and I shouted and gesticulated at her to get out of the draft zone. I was incensed that she was using an age grouper to gain advantage and steal prize money from the rest of the fair racing womens field. She took no notice and proceeded to stay in the draft zone for the next 25 miles approximately. It was obvious every time I looked behind and most of the time I could see her shadow. I was 2nd overall age grouper on the road, there was no one else around and there was no athlete congestion or anything that might have been deemed an excuse to mistakenly enter the draft zone, it was deliberate cheating for a significant amount of time. At about 85 miles into the bike the 3rd age grouper caught and passed me, we know each other so we exchanged a few words of encouragement and I used this opportunity to again shout at Thoes and tell the other age grouper that she was cheating. After this she decided to respect the rules, overtook me and pulled away for the final section of the ride entering T2 approximately a minute ahead.

As far as evidence is concerned I'm sure you could compare time splits on the bike, see that I took 10 mins out of her in the first 60 ish miles and then magically she was able to ride at my pace after I caught her. I'm sure there must be photographic evidence of this as well from on course as it went on for a long time. I finished 2nd age grouper overall and 1st 40-44, I don't care if I'm not anonymous, I'd rather the correct female pros receive their hard earned prize money and rule breaking should be punished. I don't know anything about the infringement which led to her DQ for outside assistance I didn't see anything of that nature either on the bike or run.

As an aside I'd suggest a female pro race should have 30 mins head start on male age groupers so that both races aren't interfering with each other. That's a minor point though in the context of the race, I would just like to add that no country could match Ireland for putting on an Ironman, I've raced 16 IMs all over the world and Youghal on Sunday delivered a race and an experience hands down better than anywhere else. If you get the chance, you should race Ironman Ireland, chapeau Youghal.

Wouldn't this be either a drafting penalty or a DSQ for drafting? Obviously both could be possible and you enforce the rule for which you have evidence. Either way, it does not speak well to her sportsmanship
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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Did the other thread get deleted?

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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japarker24 wrote:
Did the other thread get deleted?

yeah. i gave you all warning first, so you could get your last comments in. some did. poof. it's gone.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
Did the other thread get deleted?


yeah. i gave you all warning first, so you could get your last comments in. some did. poof. it's gone.
Why deleted rather than just locked?

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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, and thankfully not familiar enough with it but you at least get one yellow card and penalty tent for drafting, then if you do it again a red? At any rate absent some other proof this ain't it
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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realbdeal wrote:
Slowman wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
Did the other thread get deleted?


yeah. i gave you all warning first, so you could get your last comments in. some did. poof. it's gone.

Why deleted rather than just locked?

so that the folks who got some heartburn over the thread don't have to continue to see the posts.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [adnama] [ In reply to ]
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Chucky V was DQ'd from IM World Champs in 1999 for drinking a beer mid-race (I think I remember seeing him with the beer near the Hot Corner). He was also disqualified him from entering the 2000 race.

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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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At least Dan McParland’s post was parsed into this thread although the context is lost.

I suggest Tums for occasional heartburn although a healthy serving of crow can also be effective.
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks- that thing was catnip for toxic posters unfortunately. Appreciate the team keeping ST a sane place to discuss our racing and training.
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [ In reply to ]
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Any update on the appeal for Svenja Thoes? And any details about the actions that were deemed to be outside assistance?
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [test] [ In reply to ]
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Crickets from official sources.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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Do officials make announcements on those types of rulings? I would assume if you haven’t heard or seen the results change the appeal was denied.

Are we going to see an release from IM that it was denied. I would think we won’t. And either the athlete makes a statement or nothing is really “announced”.

Brooks Doughtie
-USAT Level II
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, I get what you're saying -- usually there's a mention somewhere on the results page that "results are final" versus "preliminary."

The preliminary language is finally off Cork. Thoes is listed with no time versus a DSQ. Take that for what you will.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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