Agree 100%. Wondering what set of rules the “independent court” applied.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

I thought the same when I read the statement from the front page article. It's a pretty slippery slope if you start differentiating consequences based on if the infraction affected the result of the race.

Excellent news.

We can all now go a dope up to the gills with EPO and Testosterone, and simply cite this as case law that it made no effect on the outcome (because when you win by 15 mins that margin is too big to it have mattered and would have won anyway).

What a load of fecken ballyx as they'd say in Ireland.

I'm trying to get my paws on a copy of the decision. I'm really intrigued at how we got to that.

Arbitration is weird.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

So is 'outside assistance' still outside assistance?

I guess so. What should athletes deduce from this? That it's OK to accept outside assistance if you judge that it's not going to affect the outcome of your race. And if red carded, just carry on, finish and appeal, on those (v dubious) grounds. Thousands of completer triathletes can, if IM don't grip this, follow this course (I think I'd flip my number to be on the safe side).
https://ironman.kleecks-cdn.com/...260277762.1569464052
Have not seen the 2023 rules, but assume the WT shoe stack height limit will be adopted either specifically or by reference.
2.01 (i) Compete without receiving assistance from other parties (other than from Race Referees, Race Officials, and other athletes in accordance with Section 2.02). Receiving assistance (other than in accordance with Section 2.02) will result in disqualification;

Appx A (offering a summary):
Accepting assistance from anyone other than Race Referees, Race Officials or other Race participants in accordance with the Competition Rules
If it is possible to amend and return to the original situation then a 30 or 60 Second Time Penalty (as applicable) will be assessed, if not: DSQ
Search for "mitigation": 'word not found'!

Wasn't a court as far as the other articles say. But the independent arbitration process under Triathlon Ireland. Which I'm guessing under WTC's sanctioning agreement has an additional say in penalties when it comes to appeals. I do find it interesting that WTC didn't appeal that decision to CAS.

Also, for arbitration, usually both parties pay. So this may have cost her more than the prize purse she was awarded.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

So, brief point of order on that point.

The apparent arbitration group SDRI (not sure why it was called an independent court by TIMG in their release, but whatevs) lists out costs under their FAQs -- 100 euros for the initial notice, and then 2,000 euros split between the parties for a binding arbitration decision from a single arbitrator.

It's appealable to CAS, but scope of review under CAS is often really narrow.

Regardless...still want a copy of this bad boy to read. Because it's still pretty apparent to me she received outside assistance. This is a classic "split the baby" arbitration decision whereby both parties get "something" from it.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

so basically pragmatic barrister looks at rules differently than people involved in triathlon.

I can't see what bit of the baby IM get from this. Other than a spur to including an explanatory in the rules along the lines of 'whatever the effect on the outcome of the race, the receipt of outside assistance (except as allowed in 2.02) is prohibited as a matter of principle'. Perhaps the Irish lawyer who helped create this imbroglio will have suggested a far better form of words phrase to help the next appellate panel to achieve a more satisfactory (to the sport) outcome.

How about a ST interview with her in which she explains her side of the story-- I'm definitely curious as to how she views the whole matter.

The part they get is "yes, the rule was broken."

I assure you, this isn't anywhere close to the level of crazy I've seen come out of arbitration decisions.

And the precedence tends to be more on the matter of fact (here, that outside assistance is, in fact, banned) versus that of the punishment for said action.

To the person asking about an interview...look, if you want how she views the whole thing, you can find that over on her Instagram. If we're going to do any more on the "what actually happened," it's going to come from what the arbitrator *actually* found.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I hope trisutto will feel it's "one great story to tell, no, a great, great story, believe me" and coach her accordingly, before any interview. Perhaps there was a small boy at the side of the road that really really wanted to give her a sweetie and she didn't want to hurt his feelings, so took it.
http://www.trisutto.com/...age-at-ironman-italy “I can only say that the incident was not a drafting violation, or any other dreamt up scenario, but one great story that any real Ironman triathlete would find great compassion for,"

Like many, I'm not on Instagram. Is whatever she wrote there a complete description of what happened during the race and afterwards? Is it possible that a skilled interviewer could draw out more detail than one would get in the X number of characters Instagram allows? I bet Skye Moench is on Instagram too, but ST interviewed her. Maybe in the future you could skip the interviews with pros and just put on the frontpage links to their various social media pages.

Well one of her last replies in that insta 'mea non culpa' post is this (translated from German):
svenja_thoes "outside assistance was accused to me. Which I never got 🤷 ♀️"
So she's still in denial (despite the appeal ruling specifying that outside assistance had occurred) <deleted> (ref emoticon).

i think ironman gets nothing, as only a irish sport nat gov or sport ireland can call the SDSI
so triathlon ireland vs svenja thoes.

Nah, the second emoticon is apparently a "translation" from German to English. It's not in the original.

svenja_thoes
@christina.alexis.chromer outside assistance wurde mir vorgeworfen. Was ich nie bekommen habe.🤷‍♀️

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

100 Euro? That's insanely cheap. JAMS will be 5k for both parties and then your own attorneys.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Sorry, it's 250 euros to kickstart an arbitration. It's 100 euros for the mediation process.

http://sportdisputesolutions.ie/...SI-FAQ-July-2021.pdf

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

to me, that just says she didn't consider it "assistance" which is consistent with the arbitration ruling - something happened, presumably involving someone outside of the race, which could be considered assistance but did not actually make any difference.

i like the sweet from a kid theory :)

to me, that just says she didn't consider it "assistance" which is consistent with the arbitration ruling - something happened, presumably involving someone outside of the race, which could be considered assistance but did not actually make any difference. //

There are so many scenarios that would fit this ruling, things like some stranger pushing her from behind on a hill, someone at an aid station who was not an official volunteer giving out aid, and on and on. I can see so many examples of getting outside aide technically, but not in a way that has any real intent to break the rule. My guess it is something like that. Kind of like all those fans that like to push riders up the mountain climbs in bike races, should those guys get DQ'ed for that too??


The rule is meant to draw a line, but that line can be in a totally gray area too, thus some flexibility in enforcing it, and also in arbitrating any challenges.. Would be nice to know what it was though, but to me all arrows point to the non intent aid..

Ryan,

Wise choice...

I've read some of your interviews posted here (such as the last one with Messick). Clearly, anything beyond a barrage of "softball questions" is beyond your capabilities. Wise to know your limitations...

Good idea to focus on links to curated social media sites. That way, you never piss off anyone in the industry. Well done!

no disagreement at the same time no big suprise that the tri involved people see it as a dq and a law professional sees it as a no dq .

Same reason we didn't interview Andrew Starykowicz for his ban. I don't want the athlete's side of the story that isn't sworn testimony. I want the document where we get both the race officials view, the athlete's view, and then the determination of fact by the arbitrator.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I've read through the thread and what's abundantly clear is nobody knows what infraction she was DQd for yet most people think it's fine she was DQd.

I'm surprised athletes are so damning without details, although maybe not so surprising given the way the world cancels people these days.

Each to their own I suppose. I'll hold any opinion until the infraction is public knowledge.