If you base it on that how many current racers are A list? How many fields are stacked enough for that criteria?

It’s an interesting point you raise but it’s far from being an indisputable indicator in my opinion.

Since 2019 what are his best results?

What are his results when deep fields have been present? How many. DNS has he had in that same time period?

He has the goods. He’s already going to be at front of race. Now he has to do it. I’m not saying he can’t, I’m saying his results show that *something* has happened since his 70.3 podium with world class fields. Whether DNS or racing when unfit he’s not had a podium in a deep field. I didn’t think that was not understoo?

Nothing I f said is out of left field. His results or lack of results the last 3L+ years proves it. As the other poster said on other page now it’s time to go race well in Kona. By default he’s always a favorite cus of where he is in the race. Now he just has to execute
.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

How many stacked fields has Blu beaten? Or Jan recently? Gustav? The stacked fields don’t exist that often so I’m saying your sample criteria are hard to judge.

I had a quick check of Tri Rating and Ali has just done the fastest race of all time without an asterisk? No contrived tri battle, no downstream swim. Better than Gustav’s Florida and even better than the dubious Texas result.

You can argue the fields aren’t stacked, but as you see with some athletes having that push drives them on and you can’t question Ali’s competitiveness

First his last result in a 'quality' race was Nice, less than 3 years ago (not 3-4).
Second, on your criteria, Frodeno is also relegated to the B Doughtie special 'B' list.
Third, what are these "stupid fast times" of which you speak? Since Kona 2019, in both the IMs A-lister's started and finished (Busselton and Kalmar) he's performed to eponymous standard you'd expect.

Exactly, the sample criteria BD refers to just doesn’t exist in my opinion.

I might be wrong here but going off the trirating website Ali’s Kalmar is the fastest “non asterisk” time ever; no downcurrent, no swim navigation aid, proper course length, no purpose built course etc etc

https://www.tri247.com/...-2022-results-report

Yes you keep referencing his nice race from 3 years ago (you’ve posted the same result countless time) and in the same time he’s had more DNS’s in the same champ fields then his 2 podiums in back to back years. Is that not a valid point? Which is why I half laughed at the comment that AB has a full healthy year ahead for Kona 23. This is AB we are talking about he’s liable to get a run niggle next week than to stay healthy for that time duration. That’s a fair assessment, he’d probably laugh and agree.


Are you ignoring how many times since Nice he’s not races in favoring of only bringing up these great fast race results? Which makes no sense when your talking about an athlete with an injury history that has now tagged AB.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Since Nice he’s had 3 full distance results - Kona, where the puncture changed things, WA with a course record and now Kalmar with a course record (one or the fastest times of all time).

In the half distance he’s pulled up at Daytona, had a solid if unspectacular result at Oceanside returning from an operation, stomach issues at PTO and then smashed a very fast 70.3 on a course with almost 1000m climbing on the bike.

70.3 Worlds was the long term injury, 140.6 worlds this year covid or whatever it was.

The only thing really impacted by the “niggling injury” was his attempt to quali for the Olympics. Sub-7 was a stress reaction.

So in reality he has won 3 out of 4 long course and come 4th or better in most of the half distance races, pulling out of 2 only and finishing one sick.

It’s very comparable to a lot of other top male pros, better than the vast majority of other pros.

So you are acknowledging that he’s basically 50/50 with his results since Nice. Combing all the wins and all the non podiums and DNS’s that’s his record.

We can agree on that yes?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I haven't read anything.

Is everyone arguing that AB will probably never win Kona but if he does, we won't be surprised? Because he is one of the greatest triathletes ever.

Seems like a safe position.

Someone is arguing Ali bottles it in big races, this take is being quite rightly ridiculed!

Yea Kona is smaller than the Olympics. Anyone who defends an Olympic gold is a legend of their sport.

Ali will go down as greater than most if he retired now. But also slowtwich is slanted toward ironman and America. If Sam long got top 5 at Kona one time, he'd still be rated higher than cam brown.

How good of a biker is Svensson?? Ali let him get 47 secs on him on the bike, maybe Ali left his ego at home for this race (if this overbiking theory is true)

He wanted a bunny

Long course. No one debates his short course cred. But people can free to keep holding on to the past if they want.

Put KB, Iden and Frodo (from a year ago) and AB on the line - who do you bet $10k on?

AB would be my last choice.

If you want to broaden A list to guys who can go fast and sometimes have a big race then I guess we can call AB A list - but then was have to add sanders and ditlev and skipper and a bunch of others. Which makes me wonder how far down we go for b list.

Dont forget that Ali was in Kona only for the experience in 2019

I don't really get this question, wasn't Ali and Frodo both injured this time last year? Blum and Iden were both coming off the Olympics?

If you're going to ask me who do I think would win if they're all fully fit and 100% (I think we're yet to see Ali 100% at LC) I'd back Alistair.

But this is my point - AB has been about 50/50 in terms of being fully fit and 100%. So it is hard for me to call him A list as he really is not a sure thing - despite having immense potential.

Svennson I think posted over 330wattts last year when he set the bike and overall records at Lake Placid….I think this year he has known running/injury issues so likely AB and the rest of field were aware he wasn’t going to run to ability.

Maurice

This is a fair point, as long as your definition of A list does not include two silvers at 70.3 Worlds, it's a prety high bar!

i feel like thorsten always rates the swedes really, really high - they must have some huge numbers somewhere that jack up his algorithm because he often has svensson predicted to rip up big fields.

was he the guy who soloed a sub-8 in training during COVID? one of the swedes did . . .

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Let us go through one more time:

Jesper Svensson - Former swimmer going triathlon. Normally goes hard on the swim, hard on the bike and starts off running 3.30/k on the run before he fades. Has won IM Barcelona and did a super fast time in Almere when Hogenhaug and he started the run together.

Rasmus Svenningsson - Former skier going triathlon. Does 8h bike rides on the trainer, rides 200k rides @ race pace 3 days in a row during taper week and has gotten the nickname the Terminator on triathlon Mockery. This is the guy who did sub 8 in training and loves long series (6 x 20min) of low cadence stuff at 370 ish watts.

but what about sven rasmusson? and rasmus jespersson?

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Those are the famous water polo cousins from the southern part of Sweden but I understand the mix-up :)

Haha, awesome! I confused the two…I follow the rasmus svenningson guy on strava. I ***think*** he is the guy who went overall AG in kona and then turned pro, and is coached by DTD on here.

He is very transparent with his training and wattage on strava.

Probably wrong, there is a third, fourth, fifth fast Swede….

Maurice