Keep in mind this is how Greg Lemond the tour de France in the first place. He ignored the advice of the Euro establishment and brought an innovation from the ski world that he learned of from American triathletes and smoked Laurent Fignon by 8 seconds to win the Tour De France.

I would say you kind of hit it that in the aforementioned English speaking countries, we do have that tendency....it bore inventors like Isaac Newton, James Watt, Alexander Bell (among many many more) and gave rise to companies like HP (the original garage startup in Silicon Valley) and later Microsoft and Google. So we can't have it both ways. Countries that innovate essentially have to reward individual questioning of the status quo and a desire to push outside the establishment. This forum exists thanks to slowman inventing the aerobars and the triathlon wetsuit. Ironman was invented in America. So, yes I do think there is a sliver of truth that it is more difficult to get individuals in some countries to "follow" but because the countries reward leadership and to some degree questioning of "the way it is", you get all these amazing transformations of society.

Other countries may be happier to follow and those societies are easier to get organized around a framework on any topic. Its hard to have it both ways.

The same fuckwhits that ignore good advice give you your iPhone, your google account, Amazon delivery, first manned flight, first crossing of the sonic barrier, first man on the moon, commercializing the CMOS transistor, inventing the internet (DARPA), Hollywood and a fairly long list of achievements that few nations can come even close to. (by the way, I am not American).

Predicting a global depression is a pretty bold statement. Your ability to predict the status of a race 7 months from now is about the same as your ability to predict whether or not it will rain during the race, or if the coin you flip comes up heads or tails. Most experts out there can't even come to a consensus on what the impact will be over the next 2-4 weeks.

So if you have some epidemiological knowledge or wisdom that we Americans don't have, please share - and if not, we'll continue to prepare for all possibilities including racing in the summer and fall.

---

Strava

judging by how america has responded to coronavirus, i think it might be a while before any americans are able to enter new zealand.

Funny you mention Isaac Newton, much of his work was done under quarantine from the Plague.

https://www.biography.com/...e-plague-discoveries

Appears he took on some good advice to minimise any risk from the Plague.

I think the knowledge been shared on this thread from some people is not knowledge of the virus, but from the receipt of the information that is coming from the NZ government through the daily national briefings by the PM, and further updates. There's a huge amount of transparency here (including 'we're looking at that' or 'we don't know, but that's something we are planning to consider next week').

And so the strong indications are that if the NZ lockdown works in the next 4 weeks (or so), the borders will remain largely closed until there is a vaccine. The 14 day self isolation has been shown to have been poorly adhered to by returning residents and tourists, and so there will be skepticism of that working, and there's not the capacity to cope with regular open borders and government provided quarantine accommodation.

So if the virus isn't contained / eradicated (and note that is the stated intent given just minutes ago to the parliament oversight committee) then no-one is going to be wanting to come to what's left of NZ by the end of the year anyway.

And that brings us onto the last point I'd like to make, how people actually get here. Because of geography then we are not 'handy'. In the normality of travel 3 months ago (or 14 covid-years ago) there were a couple of direct routes from the US, and singapore, dubai, HK and a bucket load that came via Aus (plus a few more infrequent ones). So whilst the 70.3 is a big thing for this forum, it's square root of f'k all in terms of being able to justify international flights. Yesterday the total arrivals into the entire country by overseas flights was 380. Not thousand. Total PAX for 24 hours less than a single plan load. Air NZ expects it's flights to be 95% less for the next year than 2 weeks ago. So for anyone who is intending to come here, that means a very high chance of them needing to connect via Aus, Singapore, China or Dubai.And that means big costs, several changes and so longer total travel times, and also that all of these places allow transit (I'd guess by then probably would, but not 100% sure).

Saw in my company’s travel newsletter last week that Air New Zealand had planned on adding a Newark-Auckland flight in October before the corona stuff blew up.

Thatd be a long flight. I flew Chicago to auckland in January and was ready to get the F off that plane.

You Kiwis do have a convenient moat around your country... especially useful in a pandemic... but imagine it’s double edged sword. Easy to close your borders... but tourism is lifeblood, right?

I work in an industry/organisation which is pretty much focused on tourist numbers. And we've been instructed to look at severely restricted overseas numbers for the next year+.

So yes, hard to see from the info out there just now that the borders will be open and flights happening again by November sadly.

yes, we carefully built it that way ;)
it sucks in many ways to be isolated at the bottom of the world but it does have its advantages too - covid is just the latest of many things we have largely kept out, that is why tourists want to come here and there is your double-edged sword

This.

---

http://www.sweat7.com
Facebook Page: Sweat7
Twitter: @sweat7coaching

Yep. 100% its not Happening.

---

Agree 100%

Even if countries get things under control and lift their internal lockdowns in the next few months (a BIG if), there is little chance countries will allow international travelers and risk reinfections from foreign sources, until the virus is defeated globally. i.e. when a vaccine is available and has been widely available and implemented globally. J&J announced yesterday their vaccine will only have been made in enough quantities for a decent global coverage by the end of 2021, and it is starting production right now (before it even has completed testing and approvals)! Obvioulsy other drug co's may also come on line with their own vaccines in the next 12 months too,

My view: IM races may start up (for local / domestic participants only) early 2021, but I think WCs cancelled until late 2021. I think the earliest WC we may get is Kona '21.

I'm actually skeptical Tokyo Olympics in July 2021 is realistic... or there will be no int. spectators and hell for athletes having to quarantine, etc. to ensure they don't bring the virus back into Japan.

Well reading through the thread posts It seems that generally the kiwis agree that the event will be cancelled and it’s the overseas people that seem more optimistic . I would venture the former group have more insight as to what is happening in NZ.

At a guess Taupo 70.3 might happen as it usually does instead - for locals only.

Agree - by November IF our borders are open - any entrants the country would probably need to isolate for two weeks - perhaps less if serological testing is more advanced by then.

Agree - flights into the country will be rare/expensive . It is pretty telling that Air New Zealand is planning to become 95% a domestic airline ! Who knows what airlines will be afloat when the dust settles - my guess is it will be mostly government backed national carriers.

Global depression. Okay that’s my personal big call but envisaging a 10% drop in GDP for a sustained period seems at least a possibility....

Looks like the Kiwis on this thread want their island Covid19 and keep foreigners out until the world is back to biz as usual. Its understandable. That's OK but its double edge in the long term. Its still an interconnected world at some point. You guys will choose the right time when you want us back. In fairness to the Kiwis, Singapore is keeping foreigners out and Singapore is pretty dead without global interconnection.

Keep in mind this is how Greg Lemond the tour de France in the first place. He ignored the advice of the Euro establishment and brought an innovation from the ski world that he learned of from American triathletes and smoked Laurent Fignon by 8 seconds to win the Tour De France.

I would say you kind of hit it that in the aforementioned English speaking countries, we do have that tendency....it bore inventors like Isaac Newton, James Watt, Alexander Bell (among many many more) and gave rise to companies like HP (the original garage startup in Silicon Valley) and later Microsoft and Google. So we can't have it both ways. Countries that innovate essentially have to reward individual questioning of the status quo and a desire to push outside the establishment. This forum exists thanks to slowman inventing the aerobars and the triathlon wetsuit. Ironman was invented in America. So, yes I do think there is a sliver of truth that it is more difficult to get individuals in some countries to "follow" but because the countries reward leadership and to some degree questioning of "the way it is", you get all these amazing transformations of society.

Other countries may be happier to follow and those societies are easier to get organized around a framework on any topic. Its hard to have it both ways.

The same fuckwhits that ignore good advice give you your iPhone, your google account, Amazon delivery, first manned flight, first crossing of the sonic barrier, first man on the moon, commercializing the CMOS transistor, inventing the internet (DARPA), Hollywood and a fairly long list of achievements that few nations can come even close to. (by the way, I am not American).[/quote]


Yeah man, we're just a bunch of simpletons up here blindly doing what we're told. Following government guidelines in a critical situation, where it's at least very plausible that the experts/advisors know better than the people, is just a sign that people can't think for themselves and are less likely to innovate and push norms. It's obviously completely out of the question that it has anything at all to do with education and/or rational thinking in this particular matter.

Hope the pink font wasn't necessary.

---

---

BA coaching http://www.bjornandersson.se

Yeah man, we're just a bunch of simpletons up here blindly doing what we're told. Following government guidelines in a critical situation, where it's at least very plausible that the experts/advisors know better than the people, is just a sign that people can't think for themselves and are less likely to innovate and push norms. It's obviously completely out of the question that it has anything at all to do with education and/or rational thinking in this particular matter.

Hope the pink font wasn't necessary.[/quote]
Hey Bjorn, if someone is going to come on anywhere and broadbrush all Americans for being stupid, I'll be the first to defend smart Americans south of me. I never said other societies are not smart. They may be more able to get mobilized for national scale stuff because there is a better framework on national missions in general. American culture tends to value individuals/free enterprise first and on the strength of collective achievements the entire nation rises generally further ahead at least on most commercial items than other nations. Its just harder to mobilize the system for non commercial purposes than some Euro countries.

So how about we all get along, not call other countries or each other idiots. Its not really helpful for any reasonable discourse. No one called Swedes simpletons. But I'd wager a bet its easier to get the overall population in Sweden mobilized on something important than Americans. It may be emotional alignment, or it may be your average IQ is higher (completely possible). These things are just harder the larger your democracy. (its easier if you are large in a non democratic society too).

So who trained today for Taupo 2020 (or 2021 70.3 WC's.....I did to give me the best chance to qualify if the world turns back on).

There's quite a big difference in saying certain individuals in a country are stupid for not following sound advice in a crisis situation vs implying a whole population is wired a certain way. You have no idea how the culture in Sweden works and yet you jump to conclusions and make sweeping generalizations. I'm not saying our way of handling this is superior but I think you're so far off base with how you imply things work here that it's borderline comical.

---

---

BA coaching http://www.bjornandersson.se

Can we leave it as different countries operate differently and none are right or wrong. Some assets that certain countries have may be a strength in one scenario and less of a strength in others. Using words like "borderline comical" starts getting in name calling and you're better than having to go there.

I didn't think you could get more condescending, but I was wrong.

Note that this reply isn't to any one individual.


Can I just point out that at the moment there's a lot of people stressed about loads of things. And that stress means we say things to just randomly vent. And we read things and our mind can leap to some words and interpret them in a way that may not be what was intended. And that is 100% normal, we all do it, and we all need to accept others do it.

Or put another way, there was some good discussion here. And still are some good points been made, but, and this is just me, it's a bit like a discussion in the bar about who the greatest boxer / cricketer/footballer is - passionate debate that is fun between friends but if the volume gets up and too shouty then the bouncers are going to come over and throw everyone out.

I hope that the 70.3 WC does happen. That would be fantastic on many levels - the athletes and for what it says about New Zealand and the world economy. And for those still training in the hope, that's probably a really good way to get through this uncertainty. I'd probably do the same, indeed I did for the Ironman against a backdrop of some injuries that seemed set to mean I'd never be fit to race, but either way it was useful to do the training just in case. I am sorry if the debate was ever read to suggest we didn't want it to go ahead, but perhaps reflected a cycle in my (and others?) moods where we are under lockdown and processing that in our own ways.

Anyway, i don't want to be anyone's grumpy Dad/school teacher. So i'll leave it at that.

P.S. Your saddle is too low, your cranks too long and you should be using a 0x13 setup

Two points, in support of your post:
Wuhan.....I really don't trust the figures and propaganda coming out of China....
America.....why do I get the impression that they just don't get it at the moment. They are heading towards a massive disaster of their own making. I have gotten shot down in flames on some FB feeds when I question my American friends about what is going on and they keep repeating this same mantra that it was all China's fault and they are doing fine...???

Finally...NZ acted fast and early (not as early as we may have hoped but once they acted it was comparatively early and hard). I am not as worried, being a kiwi in Australia now, about the state of our respective countries borders at that time of the year. I am more worried about whether negative COVID tests will be required for entry, whether some countries will be excluded (sorry team USA) and what the training will be like for many leading into the event. With the hard lockdown in NZ they should hopefully be able to control things early and start to relax things earlier then many.....

 
Well put.

Personally I really hope IM decide to roll all World Championships back a year, so Taupō gets the event in 2021. We as a community here in Taupō are going to need it.

---

http://www.sweat7.com
Facebook Page: Sweat7
Twitter: @sweat7coaching

Wow dude

He apologized for any slight

Get over it and yourself

In terms of relaxing things, even if things are relaxed for NZers (we are currently all locked down aside from essential services if people didn't know) I don't think that is going to apply to foreigners coming into NZ for a while given that most cases here are occurring from overseas contacts as opposed to community transmission. If we can get coronavirus under control within the population currently in NZ, I for one, would wholeheartedly support keeping our borders shut until other systems are put in place to ensure NZ's safety, whether that be a vaccine or other countries eliminating/eradicating it. I think most NZers seem to be of this view.

As I said earlier, if things are relaxed for foreigners, I have a sneaky feeling it may not be for americans given how their country's leadership has responded to this crisis.

thanks for your post. x2 to everything in your post especially the part in bold. The best thing that Ironman could do is just leave the event "on" until they are told by New Zealand that there is no chance. Just having it as a carrot out there provides a lot of people "something" to get through this period of the world being upside down.

@Salmonsteve....I hope Taupo gets to host the event. If the world gets back to some semblance of normal this year, would that not be the awesomest outcome from where we sit today....and even if it does not happen in Nov 2020....who knows why not Jan or Feb 2021 and St. George in the fall? Why would all of us not desire for the world to get back on track sooner than later !!!

Where did he do that? Regardless, I have no problem with any "slight" thrown my/our way as long as it has some truth to it and there are certainly plenty of things to criticize about how things work here too. But I do think it's far too easy to throw out blanket statements about countries/cultures we don't know much about and sometimes when I'm bored I think that's worth discussing. This is a forum for discussion after all..

But it's getting a bit far off topic for this thread and I hope Taupo gets to hold the 70.3 champs either this year or the next either way.

---

---

BA coaching http://www.bjornandersson.se