Does it count as Olympic sized if you have to go around the corner and up the kiddie ramp to get 25m? Our county commissioners assured us it was.

The video Monty posted of the Beijing Olympics (triathlon) shows the lead guy using this pattern; it's a bit clearer in that footage.

I think practicing with a Pull Buoy first would be my preference, so I can forget about my legs.

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29 years and counting

2:3 means 2 breaths for every 3 strokes. Push off the wall. Breathe on stroke 1, breathe on stroke 2, hold breath on stroke 3. Breathe on stroke 4 and 5, hold on 6. Repeat.

Or

Breathe as follows: Left, right, hold. Right, left, hold.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

I tried this my last swim and had to play around with head position to lock in. I'm not sure if my head moved down or just got steadier, but I went from gulping water to no problem, breathing got easier and steadier. Seems like doing a couple 200+s to sort things out worked better than 100s, as well as starting pretty fresh going into the rep. My n=1.

If you have to hold good head positioning to make this work, maybe for an AOS this would force good habits and effectively work as a "breathing drill"? I'm curious if you've had success with relatively poor-mediocre swimmers (>2:00/100) being able to (1) master this, and (2) improve their speed as a result.

Thanks for posting! -J

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Life is tough. But it's tougher when you're stupid. -John Wayne

Just so you guys know, this a 10 year old thread that someone dug up and reposted. So probably not likely you will get a response from Gary, but maybe? But here is a thread I just put up recently where we are talking about the pattern, and I have put up several videos of what it looks like, as well as a lot of converts chiming in with their experiences.

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../?page=unread#unread

Hey Monty, Nice to be back! Long hiatus....but I'm back. Been busy trying to figure out what makes swimmers fast...or not so fast. We have some great new technology to learn from.

Anyway, I am glad that many triathletes around the world are using the 2:3 breathing pattern, including Shane Reed. Didn't realize he did that in 2008..but obviously worked for him. Not sure it makes any swimmer faster, but am sure it makes swimmers feel a whole lot better getting out of the swim. Old farts like me even go to a 3:4 pattern. Ancient and not very good aerobic systems (like mine) love that oxygen...and getting rid of the CO2.

I have a learned a lot since jumping off Slowtwitch....so if you want to pick my brain, what little there is of it, go at it.

Thank you for watching our videos. Glad you like them. We are very proud of their quality and content.

Gary Sr.

Why not just breath every stroke?

this being slowtwitch, I feel it needs to be said:

"who is this Gary fellow, and why should i believe that he knows anything about swimming?"

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Look at Post #31: The Thread owner also does 3:4.

lol. Exactly. Next, somebody will suggest he join a swim team or just train by watts instead of HR.

Since the post years ago, one thing I have changed is that I no longer recommend that you keep the air in your lungs before burst exhaling before the next breath. Instead, trickle some air out of your nose (not mouth) after planting your face back in the water and the bubbles will flow under your chest.

In Florida, using a Drag/Propulsion Meter, while being towed at 2.3 meters per second, we found that the air bubbles under your body will reduce frontal drag by 9.3% compared to holding the air in your lungs. You will not reduce buoyancy significantly when the bubbles are under your body, but you will reduce frontal drag by altering the medium you are moving through. Cruise ships do this along their massive hulls to improve fuel efficiency and Emperor Penguins do this in the Antarctic to escape the hungry Leopard seals. Virtually every elite freestyler, breaststroker and butterflyer does the same.

At first you need to think about doing this, but eventually it becomes habitual.

Gary Sr.

Is that 9.3% an accurate percentage for the average triathlete swimmer? That seems huge! Imagine dropping your CdA on the bike by 9%... As far as "free speed" goes that is certainly some fantastic returns.

9.3 % reduction was based on passive drag position (streamline) and way faster than you are swimming. So no, you are not reducing drag by 9.3% but you are reducing it by something....and that matters.

Gary Sr.

nice to see you "resurfaced" here ;-) always nice to hear your wisdom.

on the consecutive breaths topic, which in my case is entirely due to reading what you've written, i've migrated to a riff off the 2:3. i'm not saying that it's optimized or preferred or recommended. it's just what i find myself often doing, including and most obviously in open water. instead of 2 consecutive breaths its 3. i end up on the same side. and by consecutive you know what i mean. 3 breaths in 3 strokes.

there's no pattern to it, as in, it's not every so often. it's just when i need more O2, when i feel the need, then it's breath-breath-breath. when i'm gassed in the pool, i'll do the same thing in the middle of a length.

i'm nobody to be giving swim advice. but i blame you anyway (!) because your wading to this idea of consecutive breaths gave me license to learn the skill that allows me to do this.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

You and I are in the same boat, Dan. I love the 3:4 pattern and once you get used to it, it is easy to do. I just do it all the time in OW...or even on my aerobic sets in practice. BTW, there is a masters swimmer (can't recall his name) in his 70's who has WR in distance events and breaths every stroke...not every cycle.

Nice to be back.

Gary Sr.

Sure, but, what qualifications do you have to be making such claims?

;-).

Still probably one of the best threads of all time.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

Hi Gary for fly and breast, I assume you exhale continuously when head in the water such that by the time your head is up, there is no more air to breath out? And for the entire head in the water phase its continuous bubbles versus holding the air in for part of the stroke

Hey Paul,

No, just let some of the air come out of the nose after each breath, then burst exhale, quick inhale during the head turn. We don't come close to taking a full breath, either in or out. Just an air exchange. Some CO2 out and some new O2 in.

Gary

Thanks for the pro tip...I have a big set coming up in two days...goal is 10,000IM (will start with as many 400IM's as I can, and then go down to 200's for the rest so I will have the chance to practice this "riding on bubbles" in three strokes).

Dev

Gary Sr,

Just retried the breathing pattern today and really liked the feeling of extra O2.

Found a 3:3 pattern ideal coming out of the flipturn... I also did a 2:2 pattern immediately after doing a 3:1; great way to always do a three stroke breath pattern always leading from my stronger side (right).

Great advice, thank you!

Awesome! glad it helped.

Gary Sr.

Hi. It seems like a lot of pro swimmers breathe extra going into the flip turn. Occasionally, I will pop my head up (as if I was sighting) just before I flip to gasp enough air to get a nice streamline and kick off the wall (so I don’t pop up in 3 yards gasping for air). My coaches used to berate me for my head pop but it didn’t seem to affect my times so I stuck with it. I’ll try 3:2 into the wall to see if it gets me the same air going until the turn.

But my real question is: how much power in terms of push off and dolphin kick should I be giving off the turn on 50s and 100s? What about longer distances like 500s or 1650s? I seem to post faster times when I can get a strong push and dolphin kick off the wall and get 8-10 yards + underwater. So long as I have the air to do so.

Thanks.....

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Hillary Trout
San Luis Obispo, CA

Your trip is short. Make the most of it.
https://www.slogoing.net/

ahhh, the ol' "i'm dying into this wall in the last few 100 of my 1500m" breathing pattern!

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"The person on top of the mountain didn't fall there." - unkown

also rule 5

Yep! Always good to check if your lifeguard is awake from time to time by appearing to be gasping.
If it leads to a little mouth to mouth...so be it!

On a 500 or longer swim, breathing twice consecutively or even three times consecutively into and out of turns is a great idea. Shouldn't slow you down much or at all. As for dolphin kicks off the wall, depends on dolphin kick speed vs freestyle speed. test yourself with all out 25 of each. if less than 1 second difference, stay down as long as you can (in a 500 that is still usually 2 kicks and up). If between 1 and 2 seconds 3 or 4 dolphin kicks to breakout (in 200 or less). If over 2 seconds 2 kicks and up for any distance....unless you are over 4 seconds slower. Then don't do dolphin kicks. just use flutter kicks off the wall. BTW, start your first up kick immediately off the wall...no gliding. It is faster.

Gary Sr.