Kay Serrar wrote:
SH wrote:
oldandslow wrote:
You have twisted his statement into a ludicrous mess..
First, you guys are the ones doing the twisting. Trump spoke about immigrants from shitholes, but you guys want to change that to just immigrants or just poor immigrants. That's inaccurate in important ways. I know. Who gives a damn about accuracy when we're talking about Trump? But irregardless of Trump, I'm not ready to throw the ENTIRE line of reasoning down the toilet because Trump said it in an insensitive way, and you can write down some cliches about immigrants.
Secondly, you are missing the only important aspect of Trump's comment. Namely, what cultural, educational, and ethical factors lead a people to create a true shithole? And, are those cultural, educational, and ethical factors transferable to the immigrants' new country of destination.
According to MidwestRoadie, all the immigrants (from shitholes I presume) are great. My comment was to point out, if they're all so great, then why do they come from a shithole? This is not an unserious question, and it's not twisting things into a ludicrous mess.
You don't sound like you're making an argument for merit-based immigration. Rather, you seem to be saying immigrants from shithole counties are not welcome, because if they turned their own country into a shithole then they aren't going to help America? Do I have that right?
No. You don't have it right. I haven't argued for ANY particular policy. I'm just trying to explore these issues in an intelligent way instead of with banal cliches.
I prefer to use my football analogy because, frankly, talking about particular cultures overwhelms the American mind. If we (you and I) were to look at selecting members of the Cleveland Browns organization for our own NFL franchise, I would imagine that we'd want to be very careful. The Browns have always been terrible. While there may be some effective people in that organization we know that there must be some critical losers. It may even be that the people in that organization that have the best "resume" are also the most responsible for the team's disfunction. To have the most success possible, we'd might establish a few things with regards to any Browns organization members we're liable to bring over to our team...
1.) We wouldn't want to just randomly select Browns personnel.
2.) We would want to try to figure what the Browns' problem was and what members were most responsible for the Browns' disfunction.
3.) We would want to determine how much any Browns member might or might not adapt to our NFL culture.
4.) We would probably be more careful with these decisions than when we are evaluating NE Patriots organization members (for example.)
5.) We would probably want to make sure our new culture was definitely strong enough to completely displace the preexisting Browns culture.
In modern America we could easily try this approach to our Browns recruiting. I'm not so sure it could even be discussed as an approach to immigration.