This doesn't bother me. But I had the following thoughts.


Sports Illustrated still puts out a swimsuit issue? (I subscribed to the magazine back in the 1970's-80's. A highlight of the week was when it showed up in my mailbox.)

It used to be sort of fun to read the letters to the editor in the weeks following the swimsuit issue. "I have two young children, and I won't subject them to this sort of filth. I'm cancelling my subscription immediately!"

I thought the swimsuit issue came out earlier in the calendar year? Sort of a ray of light in the dark days of late winter.

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

It doesn't really bother me, I just can't make much sense of it.

I mean, I am somewhat bothered by normalizing obesity for all the obvious reasons, but I just don't get who they think this appeals to, given the target market of the magazine, and this issue in particular.

The swimsuit edition was a genius marketing tool, using sex to sell copies. That, I get, from a marketing perspective. Broadening the pool of models to include some plus size models also makes sense, but not without some level of risk. Those models were classically beautiful, curvy in the right places, but heavier. I would imagine the calculation was that they can flex their social responsibility credentials with their inclusion without their flagship edition taking a big hit.

Now, they're selling the image of a morbidly obese postpartum body, and touting her "confidence," which is clearly code for not being ashamed of showing a body most women would not want to showcase.

A lifestyle magazine with a 18-35 female demographic target audience, sure, I get it.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I wonder if they are doing it because more articles are written about the models who are obese, old, have caesarian scars etc... versus the typical models.

Probably a last ditch effort to stay relevant at a time when someone can do a google search for hot women in bikinis and have instant gratification.

Didn't they include a male gay swimsuit model in their swimsuit issue a couple years ago or something? Same questions and points came up and were discussed here on this forum. Who is their target audience by doing that vs just virtue signaling, etc...

There was a pretty big thread in the LR on it if I recall.

I would think that SI is trying to reach a broader audience.

Last fall I was in search of a good strength training program for middle-aged female triathletes (50+). In my search I looked at different Instagram accounts of certain programs. I noticed there was quite a bit of "health shaming" and complaining by women who didn't like seeing very fit women in the photographs promoting these strength programs. They felt it was unrealistic. But I disagree. If you spend most of your adult life racing and training for different types of endurance sports or if you focus on fitness and exercise, most likely you will look pretty strong and fit (yes there are outliers).

You can't please everyone, especially in 2022. Maybe the solution is to showcase all kinds of body types.

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Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.

I vaguely recall that discussion.

Even so, I’m guess “confidence” wasn’t used as a selling point, and I’ll also hazard a guess that those men weren’t morbidly obese. I could be wrong.

The Venn diagram overlap just isn’t obvious to me here.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

gender fluid male

With you on the many medical reasons not to promote obesity.

As far as the title goes, how is this any different than “morbidly under-nourished, survives on coffee and cigarettes, non-athlete in SI….”? Are any of the models athletes, besides the obvious athlete edition?

This was in SI?

Yeah, I don’t get it. I suspect their attempts to appeal to everyone comes at the expense of actual sales, but it may be a dying product anyway in today’s media universe.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Yea that individual was featured in the SI swimsuit edition maybe two years ago? I don't remember when exactly. Nor do I "get" it.

wtf does that mean?

*That's* offensive.

I’m not an aficionado or historian of the swimsuit addition, but most of the models I recall generally seemed fit and healthy, and the biggest criticism I can think of is that they had unattainable physics, not that they were Kate Moss level malnourished.

Call me crazy but I think it’s reasonable to expect a magazine like sports illustrated to promote a fit athletic healthy body type. Putting aside the politically correct bullshit, that is the most socially responsible position, in my opinion.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Sports Illustrated is still being published? Or is this online?

Does anyone consume hard-copy magazines anymore? Why get something on paper that's only going to end up in the recycling bin two weeks later?

I know there was a time when SI, Rolling Stone, and MAD Magazine were worth far more than the paper they were printed on; when they had top quality writers, artists and editors

Alas, that is a time long-passed

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I would guess their average subscriber has a wife/ girlfriend who looks more like her than the other models they have.

Probably so.

Do you think those men buy that edition to see women who look like their wives?

I doubt that.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

[/quote]

US obesity prevalence was 42.4% in 2017 – 2018. https://www.cdc.gov/....7%25%20to%209.2%25.


They are marketing to America. I don't know if it will be a successful marketing campaign, but the business standpoint argument is easy to see. Identify a target audience, and sell them a product that makes them feel like they are desirable.


They are not trying to create a market or persuade people to change themselves to become part of a market. They have identified a pre-existing market and are trying to find a way to make their product relevant to it.

I don't think men buy that edition anymore. Would you? (with any type of pictures)

Which may be the root of the answer to your question. Searching around for relevance in an age where you can get a billion pictures of women in swimsuits or less for free.

Hells yeah!

It means mom is just another one of the girls, no judgement, very little parenting. Whatever is fine.

Not my cup of tea but some folks like that.
The thing is morbid obesity is horrible for your general health and longevity.
Normalizing obesity with all the health issues out there ridiculous.

The readership is 77% male, average age 38.

They are not in the business of making women feel anything whatsoever, practically speaking.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

plus, takes off her clothes for SI!

signed,

bitter regular mom

It’s a line from the Mean Girls movie. The mom who dresses like her teen daughter and friends, talks like them, tries to buddy up with them, etc, Anyway that’s how the scene played out in the movie.

I can only assume they’re alluding to that “hip” reference.

Let's clear up a few misconceptions.

This is at least her 4th or 5th time to appear in the SI swimsuit issue, but the first after giving birth.

She started as a straight sized model. She was 6' tall and 114 pounds, size 2 and was told she was too fat. Her mother was a model, as is her sister. She models (pre-pregnancy) at size 16. The average American woman today wears between a size 16 and 18.

After the instance of being told size 2 was too fat, she said, "Fuck it" and quit modeling. Later, she found the plus sized modeling world and had been successful there.

Since when has SI swimsuit issue used athletes? Yes, on occasion but the vast majority of the swimsuit models are MODELS (print/plus/gender/whatever), not athletes.

She is not morbidly obese if you look at the definition of such. Her BMI is 32.3. Class III obesity, formerly known as morbid obesity, is a complex chronic disease in which a person has a body mass index (BMI) of 40 or higher or a BMI of 35 or higher and is experiencing obesity-related health conditions.

Do you know her health history? No. She may be perfectly healthy.

Why does her weight/body shape matter to you?

Also - re long time female endurance athletes as healthy icons? Hell no. But I'll not go there re commenting on other women's looks.

And yes, there is a definite blowback on fitness influencers and their wildly unrealistic online life.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

We're going after her parenting skills now, too, not just her looks? Based on finely parsing the phrase "cool mom?" This thread is kind of circling the drain.

Also, don’t you think featuring a body type like this juxtaposed traditional supermodel beauty, and making exclusive reference to her “confidence” only reinforces undesirability?

They essentially featured her as ‘other’ using flowery language.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I think that about sums it up.

A print magazine still trying to publish an edition with risquee pictures of hot women in tiny bikinis just isn't going to get much attention like it did in 1983. None of us would have even noticed it came out. But we noticed this.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Oh hell yes - I get lots of magazines, hard copy only. I hate reading online, books or magazines. I also donate pretty much all of my magazines too.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

You asked the question of the forum regarding who SI is marketing to. Do you want an answer to that question, or reinforcement of your preconceived notions of what the answer is?

America is fat. A magazine with an edition that features, normalizes, and celebrates fat people's bodies is, in my opinion, marketing to fat people. Male and female.

Some of those marketing targets may be pre-existing male readers who are themselves fat or becoming fat, are attracted to women who are fat, have partners who are fat that they'd like to see some societal reinforcement of their desire for, have family members who are fat that they'd like to see society acknowledging and normalizing, or all of the above.

Other marketing targets may be women/potential SI readers who are fat or are becoming fat, who have have partners who are fat, are attracted to other women who are fat, have family members who are fat that they'd like to see society acknowledging and normalizing, etc.

In both cases, I see SI catering to a market that exists and is defined by its obesity or its attraction or desire to normalize overweight bodies, not by its gender or age.

I don't think it's a good thing from a societal, public health perception point of view. But the marketing rationale seems pretty obvious to me.

Yup- seems like this move paid off. Now people know this was published. If it had gone off uneventfully the majority of us may not have even know they still published a paper magazine.

So seems like it was successful.

Fair assessment.

I’m not an avid SI reader but I’ve noted a shift in their reporting toward social issues and other areas not historically featured in their hard copies. This may be part and parcel of their fight for market share and relevancy.

I’m probably working from an outdated model of what Sports Illustrated is selling.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

But will any-one that noticed it, buy it?

America is fat, and it's a huge problem. But I'm not sure part of the solution is by hiding fat people away from public view and pretending like we're not fat.

I have mixed feelings about the solutions. I don't want to see obesity celebrated, or see people give up on having healthy body composition. But neither do I feel that "shame" is a productive part of learning how to eat well and have healthy amounts of recreation.

I was just thinking of that Body edition. It is absolutely fantastic, far better than looking at models in swimsuits.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I'm sure someone will, not me or you but someone. Heck, I just learned 30 seconds ago that it hasn't been a weekly magazine for 5 years or so and is now all the way to monthly.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

What is this thing that you call a magazine?

Is it made of paper?

Where can one find these interesting artifacts?

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
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Exactly. Too bad the ESPN mag went away.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

What exactly are they marketing, and more importantly, to whom?
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Well, what ever they had in mind, it's obviously working. It got you to click, view, and talk about the swimsuit issue. Had they only included the regular hotties, you probably wouldn't have started a thread. Now that there is someone who doesn't fit the traditional mold, there is extra buzz and eyes on the magazine. Other people are likely talking about it, pro or con. The swimsuit issue has always been about getting people to buy the magazine or, these days, getting clicks and comments. This is how they make their money. You, personally, got them extra conversation and eyes on their product. They are winning this one at a much greater level than last year's.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Thanks for the insight!

I noticed that my daughter's library had really skinnied down their selection on the magazine/periodicals shelf the last time I was in there, and it was already lean pre-COVID

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Quote:

This is at least her 4th or 5th time to appear in the SI swimsuit issue, but the first after giving birth.

I am aware of that.

Quote:

She started as a straight sized model. She was 6' tall and 114 pounds, size 2 and was told she was too fat. Her mother was a model, as is her sister. She models (pre-pregnancy) at size 16. The average American woman today wears between a size 16 and 18.

After the instance of being told size 2 was too fat, she said, "Fuck it" and quit modeling. Later, she found the plus sized modeling world and had been successful there.

This as well.

Quote:

Since when has SI swimsuit issue used athletes? Yes, on occasion but the vast majority of the swimsuit models are MODELS (print/plus/gender/whatever), not athletes.

True. I never suggested otherwise. What's different now is they've disposed of traditional body types in their models (I'm ok with that in general) and are promoting images of scantily clad bodies that are generally considered undesirable in the traditional sense. This goes beyond the plus size issue; those models had the typical proportions of the smaller models in these issues, not thick midsections that are nearly indistinguishable from the bosom or hips.

Please keep in mind this is an objective observation of historical trends in modeling, not a value judgment of those individuals. She absolutely does look more like the average American mom than their traditional models. I'm saying it is a departure even from their recent history, as best I can tell

Quote:

She is not morbidly obese if you look at the definition of such. Her BMI is 32.3. Class III obesity, formerly known as morbid obesity, is a complex chronic disease in which a person has a body mass index (BMI) of 40 or higher or a BMI of 35 or higher and is experiencing obesity-related health conditions.

Assuming your data is correct, yes, I was using layman terminology and imprecise. Thank you for the correction. She is not morbidly obese, she's smack in the middle of Class 1 obesity. Not just overweight, but obese.

Quote:

Do you know her health history? No. She may be perfectly healthy.

There is no such thing as being obese and perfectly healthy, much in the way that you can't be perfectly healthy with a smoking or alcohol habit. The consequences simply haven't manifest yet.

Quote:

Why does her weight/body shape matter to you?

You're asking why a consumer has an opinion about the weight/body shape of a model in a product designed to showcase their bodies, when that product reaches the consumer?

This isn't a swimsuit catalog, in which this photo and that body type absolutely makes sense given the market. Companies would be negligent to omit them, without question, in that context. But that isn't, as best I can tell, the history of this issue. It's about what's sexy and desirable, and this is pushing the boundaries in a new direction I've not seen before.

Is it a good thing to normalize and glamorize obesity when it comes with flawless hair and high cheekbones? Is it any better or worse to do so when their proportions more closely match those of smaller, healthier weight "attractive" figures?

I think there's a sensible middle ground to occupy between shaming and glamorizing obesity. I don't think that should be controversial, if we're being honest. As for a "mom bod" being featured among the other sexy images in SI's flagship edition, I guess that's their call to make (for the record, I don't think glamorizing "dad bod" is all that socially beneficial or desirable, either). As referenced above, it may draw traffic, but potentially in a very cynical way. I'm perfectly willing to accept that my standards for beauty don't match the rest of America's.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I agree. I don't have have a good solution - it doesn't seem like anybody does.

I do not think shaming is the right way to go. It's not 'right' (as in right and wrong), and it doesn't appear to be effective either.

I think some level of not normalizing/celebrating being significantly overweight is appropriate. But there's a complex line between 'not celebrating', 'normalizing' and 'shaming'.

How to communicate, via mass marketing campaigns trying to sell stuff, that being significantly overweight is not ideal from a public health perspective, but it doesn't make you a lesser person deserving of poor social treatment or of being ignored. Not simple.

I thought people just got SI for the articles

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

If she ever ends up in a hospital for whatever reason and is hard to mobilize it won't be fun working with her. Neither will it be pleasant for her, not that hospital stays are pleasant under any circumstances but even less so for fat immobile patients.

This will be a problem going forward, I think. On one hand, you don't to "fat-shame" obese people, but you also don't want to normalize obesity either. It's a tough needle to thread.

I still get 1. Singletrack. A high quality independent UK based mountain bike magazine. They do have digital subscriptions too and a Web site with articles and a forum and a... (like ST but for mountain bikers !).
Still nice to get the hard print version. A rarity of quality writing and not stuffed over full with 76 out of 84 pages being adverts unlike some cycling mags

Exactly.

Adding to it is the fact that there are fit fat people and unfit lean people. No easy answer.

I think you were thinking of that other magazine?

On a serious note, back in the day SI was one of the first and few publications that did in-depth sports reporting on a regular basis. Some quality writers/journalists got recognized through that, like Frank Deford.

I was a subscriber back in my college days and a few years after. I would always curiously check out the feature that highlighted a few amateur, HS, college or obscure sport athletes that did something of note in their sports. Distinctly remember whether it would be a Triathlete getting a mention but that never occurred. Alos, I would first go right to the back to read Rick Reilly's columns, then work my way through the other parts. He was always entertaining, and a good read on a variety of topics.

At some point Reilly left. The articles stopped being as good. And they've been bought and sold a few times over. And I didn't renew my subscription. Not all in that order.

Haven't seen/read an issue in years, and it looks like the swimsuit content has changed, somewhat with the times I guess.

Well, my $0.02 is that that issue growing up was traditionally a horndog soft core excuse for dudes to be able to look at women in a magazine without many clothes. Not that it had much of anything to do with sports. Sometimes they would toss in a legit female athlete.

Now.....for this specific thing.......it could be seen as being inclusive and a nod of acknowledging that was the original intent. As if it was, it makes sense.

Personally, I'm not a fan of pushing glossy covers of anybody with problems. Could be skinny, morbidly obese, smoker, whatever.....to sell a buck while knowing it.

Without even addressing the morbidly obese part, it's still not right.

To address the morbidly obese part.........it's becoming a thing these days where the reality and the social trend are diverging. There was a point of progress where people demanded be treated better, it seemed, while still acknowledging that it isn't healthy. But now, it's pushing on bad science and truth denial to go around saying "there is also a skinny fat unhealthy and at 300lbs I'm perfectly healthy". That's a hard no. That's what I have a problem with.

More customers for my job though!

Sports Illustrated was the vehicle for perhaps the greatest single piece of sports fiction ever written, including Semi-Tough, North Dallas Forty, or The Natural

https://www.si.com/...ious-case-sidd-finch

Fear & Loathing In Las Vegas was supposed to be Hunter S Thompson's coverage of the Mint 400 off-road race for Sports Illustrated, but things kinda went off the rails; SI rejected it and Rolling Stone picked it up instead

The rest is history

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

"There is no such thing as being obese and perfectly healthy, much in the way that you can't be perfectly healthy with a smoking or alcohol habit. The consequences simply haven't manifest yet"


Normalizing obesity is disturbing. Not only is this seen in magazines but also in the mannequins of stores (LuluLemon for example).

We have to find a way to balance obesity and eating disorders (or body dysmorphia). How to do that, I don't know, but I feel like obesity has become a much much bigger problem with far reaching future consequences. Obesity related medical problems, like diabetes, osteoarthritis, and hypertension, may not show up for years. And by then, the damage may be permanent. I see the effects of obesity every day in my office dealing with obese poorly controlled diabetics and hypertensives. We have had to buy extra "obesity" chairs to handle the weight of some of these patients (last I looked, these were $1600 per chair).

A public health researcher, at UNC/Chapel Hill, looked at COVID deaths and hospitalizations, and found obese/overweight Americans had something like a 130% higher risk as compared to their non-obese/non-overweight counterparts (to die or be hospitalized). So, we are still dealing with a pandemic that continues to claim lives, with one of the biggest risk factors being obesity, and yet we still try and glamorize it to make people feel good about themselves or see someone "that looks like my size". I don't want to shame or bully anyone, because they are obese/overweight, but there has to be a new direction taken for the health of our citizens (I've read reports that 30%+ of children are considered obese/overweight).

something interesting here (at least to me)

we're at a point where a heavier body is celebrated, which is cool, because stick-thin (via starvation, ritalin and cigarettes) is no good.

yet

her lips are filled, her cheeks are filled, she possibly has botox, her hair is bouffed out.

In other words, all body types are great as long as you're conventionally pretty (or made to look so)

how about we get to a place where average, unaltered looks are celebrated in magazines. Or is that too radical?

Let's be honest.... chubby chicks are chubby, and they get that moniker for obvious reason. Some dudes like chubby chicks, and those guys are called chubby-chasers. Fine for them....
This SI "model" picture has become the "norm" for a lot of women. Doesn't mean it's right, healthy, attractive, or desirable to the opposite sex, etc, etc.....
You're reading this thread because you're on ST, which means you're into fitness, competition, health, nutrition, etc. So, if you yourself are into this lifestyle, how do you rectify the opposite sex being so far from this same lifestyle? Listen, chubby guys like chubby ladies..... fit guys typically like fit ladies....

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Team Zoot-Texas, and Pickle Juice

I have no idea what point you're trying to make, but here's some Benny Hill.

These girls glutes look like those of marathon runners compared to 21st Century "standards"



Clearly, they didn't crave squats back then

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Favorite post of the thread so far.

The issue is looks are so subjective. Society has standards, albeit warped, but attractiveness is so subjective: makeup, hair color, size, features, etc.

It’s impossible to please everybody. It’s impossible to be all-inclusive and not piss some people off, especially with a private enterprise at the helm.

I just wish we could celebrate all bodies without supporting/celebrating unhealthy habits (because I see physical health as a main issue in our society) and, like you said, without celebrating the “Kardashian Effect” or whatever the hell we want to call it.

Cover photo for this edition was released.

https://twitter.com/...oaTneERkUN_rNmzG6DaQ

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

“ In other words, all body types are great as long as you're conventionally pretty (or made to look so)

how about we get to a place where average, unaltered looks are celebrated in magazines. Or is that too radical?”

I’ve been saying this forever. The unspoken rule is, everyone is beautiful now, so long as you’re uncommonly pretty. That qualifier will never change. Sorry, I don’t give these businesses social responsibility attaboys for ever so slightly expanding their highly exclusive club with a wink and a nod to inclusivity.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

her body: good to see on the cover of a magazine, and i'm glad they left the hip creases in, that's real

i don't think the suit flatters her. A bikini would be better.

the one advantage of ultraskinny models is that they can wear most styles, as long as you airbrush out their ribs

I agree. She looks great in this photo, presumably from the same issue.

https://swimsuit.si.com/..._nu_02_391_wmweb.jpg

No one really looks good in those belly fat sling style suits.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Ok with rare exception.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Yes, same with my wife.

Say what you will about this, but the only time I ever hear anything about SI is around their swimsuit issue.

Their marketing department is doing something right.

It’s certainly having an impact.

https://twitter.com/...oaTneERkUN_rNmzG6DaQ

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Frankly, that is gross and we should not be celebrating it.

After a pandemic where a significant comorbidity was being overweight, we are now going to glamorize obesity?

Type 2 diabetes is no walk in the park and getting a foot amputated due to complications won't make that walk any easier.

For someone who seems to like to tell people how they should be living their lives, that guy really is a train wreck.

I’m not one to argue the vessel must be flawless to deliver a valuable message, but…yeah. He can be his own worst enemy.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

What if the vessel repeatedly falls to the floor and shatters?

There are actually four different covers. I'm sure SDG will have an issue with all of them.

https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/...-kardashian-84748799

And the one you posted - she's the niece of DJ Steve Aoki.

https://pagesix.com/...swimsuit-2022-issue/

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Thicc is clearly the in look, but I guess it has been for a while :)

Jordan Peterson appears highly attentive to his own looks. At some point during his disappearance from the public sphere he seems to have had a facelift and a hair transplant.

there's nothing the matter with either of these things, and indeed they're helpful for a positive self image if that's how you roll.

but it's not very manly in the classic sense he seems to think is so damn important.

Kim Kardashian?

No thanks.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I’m also not sure that “be the change you want to see…” is a great quote to put on a cover with an overweight person, unless they’re actively trying to tell people to be happy with being unhealthy and at greater health risk.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Can't figure out the obsession with those women. They are not good looking when it comes to facial features, not fit, ( looks like they have had their butts injected with something) and their hair is pretty gross. Hair is always matted down and oiled up with something. Just not my tastes at all.

But at least they aren't obese like the one that is on the cover. That is simply irresponsible to glorify that size of person and the health risks that come with being that size.

She's good to look at into her 40's, has made a bagillion $ with no significant skill or ability, and kicked Kanye to the curb. She is obviously a genius.

Her image has still been airbrushed, a lot, you can tell. That said its standard procedure for these kind of things.

.

Sort of like Paris Hilton for me. I mean not bad looking but really not great looking either yet I get the impression that part of what is suppose to be appealing about them is that they are beauties.

Of course they’re airbrushed. Also,

“The magazine said it wanted women to know that there's no expiration date on our dreams and models don't have to check a specific box in order to be beautiful.”

lol.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

😢

I don't get it. I'd never heard of the guy, looked him up, and he's supposed to be an "intellectual." I could see some criticism of the cover that's plausibly intellectual. We've had some of it here., e.g. concern about the effects of cultural norms on public health, etc. But he just went with "not beautiful" which is just adolescent trolling.

Whenever I've watched him or listened to him (he's had at least one conversation with Sam Harris) he reminds me a bit of new age guys like Deepak Chopra (but in a different vain) where he says a whole lot, often using big SAT words, but when it comes down to it he never really says much at all.

First time I saw him was him making some sort of defense of belief in God, if not Christianity, and making a mess of it because he wouldn't just admit that it comes down to faith but rather was some sort of sensible objective, rationale position to take. So first impressions...

Well, in terms of calling them not good looking, that's really a subjective call. At least you admitted to limiting your view to your tastes, otherwise it's a line that's not right to cross. Personally, I'm not a fan of butt injections, but hair could be all types. I don't have a problem with any of that.

As far as not being healthy - yes, agree that that's not a good look and shouldn't be celebrated. But healthy can be tied to objective measures (HdLs, Vo2, ... in some cases weight). Whether she's good looking or not? Personal tastes only.

I came across this today.



The idea that one can be significantly overweight and "perfectly healthy" is fairly absurd. I'd be perfectly happy to see people like Wilson included in those swimsuit editions as success stories, or works in progress, to celebrate the positive impact a healthy lifestyle and weight loss has conferred. That doesn't require being supermodel skinny. I haven't read the accompanying articles in the SI photos in this thread, but I don't get the impression that's the focus; rather, their obese figures are being portrayed as beautiful as is. Granted, some people may see it that way, but I think there's a real danger in normalizing obesity, and glamorization of obese figures without question takes significant steps down that path.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Woke universities' newest social justice crusade: Fighting 'fatphobia' | Fox News


Rebel and all the doctors saying it's healthier to be a lower weight are about to get cancelled for being racists.

Oy Vey.......What a world eh?

I guess we can tell our little girls and boys to eat like pigs, weigh 330 at 5'6 and all will be good. Hope they don't realize it was all a lie when they die at 42 years old, and have their limbs amputated from Type II Diabetes.

rambling: i get the arguments against glamorising/normalising/celebrating obesity because it could encourage complacency when it comes to losing unhealthy weight.

I also get the real struggle people face with body image. How can you feel right in yourself if you're made constantly aware, via media images, that you're 'wrong'?

mixing up the models -- super skinny to pretty darn heavy to old to disabled to unconventional looking or just average -- is better than the old school magazine look of the 70s and 80s -- those girls were mostly wretched with hunger.

if fit, incredible bodies is all you want to see, stick with the ESPN olympians

dibs on the Ozzie lifeguards.

I teach this sort of stuff at a University. I'll let you know when they come after me.

You teach this sort of stuff?

Quote:

The school released a policy brief in October called, "Addressing weight stigma and fatphobia in public health," which said the country’s focus on body size is "rooted in racism" dating back to Charles Darwin, and it advised against using "extremely stigmatizing" words like "obesity" in favor of terms such as "people in larger bodies."

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

No, I would fall under the "well-meaning fitness pros" I guess.

Curious to know what isn't true because there seems to be a lot of evidence of the health risks associated with obesity.

I've been teaching this stuff for over a decade, only issue that has ever come up was a student with anorexia complaining that we shouldn't be talking about obesity and health because of people like her.

I would think this would lead to a good discussion about moderation, healthy eating choices and the balance between the two extremes.

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_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

Maybe, I didn't know about it until after the fact. She went to the director of the program and didn't speak to me about it and I wasn't told until some time later.

My limited understanding of anorexia is that it doesn't have as much to do with food as it does with love, acceptance and relationships.

I have no idea, this person was triggered by discussions around obesity apparently so maybe her issues had something to do with fear of being fat and unhealthy.

That's pretty messed up. I wasn't insinuating you would not have addressed the situation, just a thought on how someone with anorexia, who I would assume has been in counseling could see it as a teaching moment.

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_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

It was my first year here, so I didn't really know her, maybe that's why she didn't come to me. I was actually surprised to find out about the whole situation since I didn't even know she was anorexic. She ended up with all sorts of health issues, not even directly related to the anorexia and died a few years after she graduated. Pretty sad situation all around.

I think the physical appearance space is out of control and has been for some time and it's only getting worse. The prevalence of people that are overweight or obese is at an all time high(74% and rising) and this does come with a cost both to the individuals and to society. In addition, the influencer/model sphere has never been more influenced by cosmetic surgery, PEDs and airbrushing. The image presented as ideal is not attainable without surgical or pharmaceutical intervention.

Normal people have flaws, it's just reality. If I am in an anabolic phase, I have higher carb intake with puffier muscles and carry more water. If I'm in an endurance phase, typically I am carb restricted and appear leaner but flatter and weigh less. For many of these models, they are manipulating fluid levels by diet as well as diuretics and PEDs to get the best of both worlds for their photoshoots.

No idea how much they airbrushed the "Body Issue", but we need a real reset on what is healthy and what that looks like, and that issue was a good start. Especially if the athletes come from sports where they are drug tested, even though that isn't a perfect solution.

More criticism, this time from the LGBTQIA2+ (I’m not making that up) angle. Apparently it’s problematic that the WNBA players featured in the article accentuate their femininity.

From CNN:

“There are plenty of feminine queer women, but queer womanhood is much more expansive than that. In distancing itself from the potential of an explicitly queer aesthetic, this photo display distances itself from the truth of what the league actually is: a group of elite athletes that includes a lot of queer, Black women.”

“It's long past time to celebrate and uplift queer, masculine-of-center aesthetics as desirable. The players -- with their range of gender expressions -- make the league what it is, and they deserve to be uplifted and celebrated and marketed for exactly who they are.“

Opinion: Sports Illustrated's swimsuit issue is a step back in time. And not in a good way

I do see her point, though, and I’ve made a similar one here regarding token but ultimately exclusive “inclusivity.”

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Don't worry, I'm off to google to educate myself, but before I do, wondering if the "2" is for 2nd amendment zealots?

---

Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

So is this the fault of the players for being authentically themselves, were they pushed to be something they are not or did the magazine specifically select feminine queer women. The reason I ask is that everyone in the magazine has makeup(I would think) and if they are to be seen as masculine, are they to go topless, possibly after having top surgery?

I'm unclear as to what solution is being offered, if there is a solution here.

I’m going to be totally honest. Living in the Boulder area if it were not for posts like this and the news stories I would have no idea this obesity epidemic existed.

Do people on here actually live places where 74% of the population is overweight? Where kids are overweight? I can’t think of an overweight kid at my child’s school. I’m sure a few qualify based on data but I can’t think of any I think appear unhealthy based on body composition.

I can see how tribalism is spreading - because I know in my mind this exists- but in my day to day life it doesn’t. Which I know has all kinds of privilege dripping off of it - but it just underscores how people really don’t see the same thing and hence come to different conclusions.

I've never really given it too much thought as to what all the letter stands for, but I wonder how you get your letter in as opposed to being part of the + (I assume the + means "and everybody else", but I'm not sure about that?)?

Unless it's changed recently Colorado is the least obese state, and I'd guess Boulder is probably one of the least obese cities in the state.

Take a trip t San Antonio some time. Lots of very overweight, dare I say Obese people everywhere. Kids, adults, all of them. Very sad and I have no dispute with the 74 and rising number. Places like Boulder are the outliers for sure.

I can’t think of an overweight kid at my child’s school.
---
20 out of the 30 kids I taught today fall into the overweight/ obese category. None of them could be categorized as morbidly obese, or whatever the term is now. The percentages for the staff appear to be slightly better but still more than 50% as plus sizes.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

I'll share for you, so you don't have to be bothered

LGBTQ+ refers to lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, queer/questioning, with the plus sign signifying a desire to be inclusive of other non-straight identities

LGBTQQIP2SAA stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, questioning, queer, intersex, pansexual, two-spirit (2S), androgynous and asexual

"Two-spirit" is specific to Native American cultures and includes some of the other LGBTQ+ identities

🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Living in NC it's a simple trip down to the local Walmart/Fast Food joint/mall. The % might not be consistently that high, or low, but it's up there for sure!

It's to the point if you're an endurance athlete hobbyist you "get looked at funny" for being skinny instead of how you would look at people that way for being fat.

I mean, it's pretty much that way now in most of the US. People look at a runner/bike racer wearing properly fitting casual clothes like they're a skeleton. Fat is normalized now, fully normalized to the point they've refined what sizes clothes are now for S/M/L/XL. I wear a men's small in shirts now. I'm not THAT small. It's just to make people feel all cushy inside and not have a 5XL size for lots of folks...........the other sizes got larger. I literally can't even buy clothes at Costco because they don't sell men's small or pants below a size 32 waist.

Yes, it is that bad. Not in my neighborhood because there is a socioeconomic component to this. But in nearby cities and towns and traveling for soccer and spending time with relatives of mine, it is a staggering reality. It almost appears beyond repair-Kids that look "stuffed" as if they are unable to gain any more weight and 30-40 year old adults that are damn near immobile.

Seriously the best place to observe it in most places is Walmart. Get a mask and just walk around. It is very sobering.

In Now-Ancient History (tm), I needed a few more credits in my last semester of college, so I took Gender, Sexuality, and Society. I was the only male (at least obvious male) in the class, which you'd think would have been a yoga-class-esque dating pool, except everyone else was militant lesbians. In spite of being underwhelming from a dating pool point of view, the content of that class remains remarkably current today, and it did a lot to help me understand just how gnarly life can be for people who don't fit our cookie cutter molds. 10/10, would take again.

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Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

Thanks for clarifying. There does seem to be some redundancy there, though. But I do appreciate how every subgroup gets to etch their name on the title. Sort of like the Stanley Cup of group identities.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Did you do that without looking it up?

The freaks come out at Wal-Mart for sure. If you ever want to see folks it is hard to believe are the same species as yourself, look at the people of walmart page. Funny and tragic at the same time.

And who could remember that?
Maybe it can be shortened to some kind of acronym.

They heard you man.

Martha Stewart 2023.

She looks great, btw.

She looks better than most women half her age.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

There are 4 cover models.



Martha Stewart
Megan Fox
Kim Petras
Brooks Nader

I expect to see some of these issues to be on TikTok getting destroyed by an AR15.

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Suffer Well.

The only way SI gets any press about their swimsuit edition is if they make it a novelty. They get a little bump and some publicity. I think this is all this is. They put Martha Stewart on the cover for the same reason.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

yes she does (and the following rant is not directed at you Wanna, but at the SI image machine).

She also looks nothing like an 80-something woman. She's as artificially wiped, glossed, and filtered as a Kardashian, whose presentation has led to a generation of girls with body image issues.

if anybody says this is a celebration of old age, i'm calling BS. It's a celebration of airbrushing. Martha looks nothing like that in real life.

I know a few people fairly well who have had anorexia or near to it. I think I can say they came from loving families and had decent relationships at least with their families maybe less so with peers. All the young women I have treated for it as a family doctor I don't recall any who had bad parents. It seems to be more of a type of dysfunctional control mechanism for anxiety (control over one thing you can control body weight) and a response to the constant barrage particularly for women to have unrealistic body types. As far as acceptance goes I think self acceptance is in many cases missing.

---

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Isn't there also a warping of their self-image too? They think they look fat when often they actually look emaciated?

All the filters and what not women use even on Facebook create illusions of beauty.

There's a girl I went to school with who is in her mid-50s now and she's always posting "selfies" on Facebook and I think "damn she looks pretty good for her age", then every once in a while she posts a random non-staged shot of her in a group photo or something, and I think "nevermind".

Yes they do have a disordered view of themselves. I have not treated young women who are really in bad shape from this but thankfully have been able to pull the ones I have seen back from the brink as one might say by having discussions about what a healthy weight is for them and pointing out that things like ceasing to menstruate because you are so skinny isn't healthy.

I have had a few pro-active conversations with a young lady who is a high level mid distance runner before she went to college about how under no circumstances would it be healthy for her to lose weight. I have her come in when she is home for summer and get a weight on her.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Agree. Exactly what my wife said when we saw the story last night.

My counter, is I can appreciate the idea that they still opted to put an 81 yo out there. I know a few women through work in their 80’s that look like they are 80, but are cool, stylish, a tad vain (in a good way) and in their mind think they are still 21.

I love celebrating that. I get the argument about how fake this is.

‘if anybody says this is a celebration of old age, i'm calling BS.’

I don’t think anyone is saying that.

They’re glamor photos, and there’s no reason why she shouldn’t get the same considerations and treatment as younger models appearing in the issue.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I prefer real-life Martha to Madonna. I listened to some commentator on NPR talking about Madonna is incredibly courageous in redefining age for older women, etc. Oof. I had to turn it off when she started saying that Madonna has set the standard for women her age, which annoyed me because it was sending the message that older women need to go out and spend a ton on surgeries.

But she did not get the same treatment. Old age is to be celebrated for what it is without artificial enhancement. That should be the glamor.

BS is the correct call.

If by “redefining” they mean refusing to grow old gracefully, I guess.

She has the means to try to hang on to her 30 year old self as long as humanly possible, pretty much how most women of means in the spotlight have since forever (millions of years!) What’s so groundbreaking about what she’s doing?

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Of course she did. You don’t think they pose the other models in the most flattering way possible, or put them in swimsuits that compliment their figure, hide things they don’t want seen, apply makeup to enhance their beauty, and airbrush photos to maximize their appeal?

We’re talking about a matter of degrees. My guess is Martha had a good bit of creative control over the final product just as the other women likely did. Why should her age be a consideration whatsoever?

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I didn't know you went to high school with me.

For me this woman was and is a good friend. I am always saddened when she posts yet another picture of her boobs on FB or instagram. She is a smart very very nice woman with a masters in history. Her parents got her into pageants when she was young and she was in Miss Ohio multiple times. And she is still desperate to have people say she is pretty. But there is so much more to her that most people never see. She actually does still look good, but we are just shy of 40 years removed from high school and all have a few miles on us.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

i'll argue she's not getting the same treatment. The younger models get retouched to remove transient flaws: blemishes, dark circles and visible ribs.

Martha's gotten the equivalent of an angle grinder to face and chest. Her age has been categorically removed from her image.

Put an 81 year old on the cover, benefit from the virtue signalling publicity, but also make any visible evidence of age disappear. It's not progressive, it's falsehood.

with that i think i've used up my rant quota for the day.

Not a point I’m really invested in arguing, but what you’re talking about isn’t transient (dark circles, wrinkles, blown out lighting to hide blemishes and wrinkles etc). It is still a matter of degrees. An 81 year old will get more touchups than a 61 year old, who will get more touch ups than a 21 year old. But they all get it, and it’s all pursuant to the same goal, and none of the images are pure and authentic.

If SI is trying to make a counterfactual argument in the accompanying text, then I’m with you. Otherwise, let Martha look and feel how she wants to look and feel.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

All I know is that Duffy would hit it.

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Suffer Well.

Just count me on the side of natural without enhancement of any degree. Matching by varying the degree of enhancement serves to confuse. Losing grasp of the difference between real and fake is worrisome.

Oh the things you can do with Photoshop.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I think you know the rule on these matters.

Pics or it didn’t happen.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I am with you here. It's as if SI is trying to say...." Look at how beautiful you can be at 81" when in reality she is not that beautiful without a hell of a lot of editing. That's not to say she is ugly but in terms of overall beauty, we all get worse looking as we age, unfortunately it hits women the hardest.

It is an objective fact that a girl aged 25 will be more physically desirable and beautiful than a women aged 81. Why try and run from it and put out a false version of what age really does to you? Embrace your age but no need to put it on the front of SI. Although SI has become a joke for the last 10 years so who really cares. They put whales on there last year if I recall.

I hope you haven't looked at any photos of any models or actresses in the last 40 years or so. Nothing in a magazine or ad is natural without any enhancement. Hell, even good hair and makeup are enhancements.

SI has been trying for a few years to shed the criticism that it's a sexist out-of-date dinosaur. So they put overweight women in the swimsuit issue. They put an 81 year-old in the swimsuit issue. They put a transgender woman on one of the covers. It's all part of some mild virtue signaling so they can grasp at a dwindling audience.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I'd argue we have to make a distinction between digital post-processing of images and people like washing their hair in the morning.

There are photographers (and models) who like to go without digital filtering. And I think it's great.

Can you define enhancement? Does makeup count? A push-up bra?

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Spanx, push up bra, and makeup skills...

The difference between "enhanced" and natural can be mind boggling.

Models and actresses and their photos for the past 40 years have not had my attention. I get that there is a market for beauty, both feminine and masculine. I get that vanity is sought. I have never been a fan of the practice. That's all. Natural looks to include looking your age works for me. As for SI and making a buck, wasn't relevance first found in a swimsuit edition that went to print during the dead season of sports after the super Bowl and before spring training? I guess virtue signals are good in season.

Down the dangerous road I go. plastic surgery, dyeing hair and heavy make up are definite no nos. My personal fashion model of 50 years ,aka my better half, serves to instruct my thinking.

Looking at recent pics of both Joe Biden and Martha Stewart inform me that surgeons have pulled, cut and tucked perfectly good aging epidermis. That is not right.

Absolutely nothing worse than an old person trying to remain young looking by having their skin stretched to oblivion or getting Botox injections so much their face is a brick.

What Goldie Hawn did to her face, along with many others is sad to see.

The problem is people think they are supposed to stay attractive and enticing as they get older. They aren't.

It's OK to age and get ugly, everyone does it. No one is exempt.

When we say a women or man looks good, for his age, we are acknowledging that person is not really that good looking but trying to throw them a bone. People need to be less wrapped up in their looks.

I'm certainly not an aficionada of plastic surgery so maybe it's well done much of the time and you can't really tell the person has had and it makes them look younger than they are, but it seems like much of the time they just end up looking old and freaky thanks to the plastic surgery.

SI is advertising their "rookie" group of models (not including celebrities like Martha, Padma, or Livvy Dunne).

Of the eight new models, maybe three have traditional model bodies, three are probably somewhere between curvy and overweight, one certainly looks obese (although not as much as the model from the OP), and one is pregnant. This is on top of an 81 year-old, multiple transgender women, returning obese models, and a self-identified pansexual model.

It's easy to see that they are making a specific effort at "body/identity inclusivity," for better or worse


https://swimsuit.si.com/...023-meet-the-rookies

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I try to keep an open mind here. It's important to think this through instead of, potentially, just signaling.

I think a lot of avenues of enhancement are totally acceptable, but you want it to be hard to notice as pure enhancement. You want to remain human looking.
Many aging women are not remaining human looking. Considering their obvious original intent, it's really a tragic situation.

Who named you king of the world and gave you the right to say that what someone does with their body "is not right"? What someone does with their body kind of sounds familiar...

If anyone tried to stop my hair and nail appointments, they would be stabbed in the eyeball with an ice pick. And I'm sure I could show you some photos of what you might call "heavy makeup" and you wouldn't know the person had much makeup on.

Pretty funny that nearly 100% of the comments here are from dudes.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

If I cancelled one of my wife hair or nail appointments same thing.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

You ask a fucking question and then bitch about people answering the fucking question?

It's an opinion. Even men are entitled to them.

Well apparently SI can't win. Show regular-type women, they're virtue signalling. Show enhanced and airbrushed women that's "not right."

What are they limited to? Only slightly malnourished women who've had no cosmetic ops between the ages of 18 and 26? Anything outside that is virtue signalling?

We're also entitled to mean posts in response. We're not fragile little men up in here.

Martha Stewart's an interesting choice. I say this as unrelated to her body - it just seems odd to me somehow to go from cooking / homemaking / hostessing to SI modeling.

semi related story: for several summers, I lived a mile from her summer place on Mount Desert Island, ME. I decided one day it would be funny to ask if I could borrow a cup of sugar. (I was in college. I was not at all intoxicated). Mostly, I wanted to see her place - long driveway, lots of trees; it's on the water but you can't see the house from the road. (This is typical of MDI summer homes owned by the incredibly rich and used for no more than 2 weeks a year*). Anyway, I started walking up the driveway and decided to turn around when I saw the no trespassing sign. This was likely a good move on my part.

second story: I ran the MDI [name other other forum event] in 2005. She fired the starting "gun" except because of her felony status or whatever it was an airhorn. She said in her little pre race talk "I'm so inspired, I'm going to do this next year" and then she didn't and my opinion of her dropped.

*the upside of this is the tax dollars the state gets

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

You forgot Jail bird in her history...

“Martha Stewart's an interesting choice. I say this as unrelated to her body - it just seems odd to me somehow to go from cooking / homemaking / hostessing to SI modeling.”

I thought it was common knowledge that she was a model before doing any of those things.

https://www.lofficielusa.com/...-modeling-age-chanel

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Who am I? Just a man with an opinion on the matter. I have quite a few opinions of behavior that I feel are not right. Wrong road confirmed. Sorry to upset you.

I'm sure there's a range of body types and women they could feature that wouldn't seem like virtue signaling. Morbidly obese women, transgender women, and 81 year-old women are pretty predictably going to earn SI that label, and I don't think SI has a problem with that. They actively promote these models in terms of their body image campaigns, identity politics, etc. It's not like SI is just trying to show beautiful women, and they're shocked that anyone would characterize it as virtue signaling. They've actively attempted to revamp their image.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

It used to be that they used the swimsuit edition to sell magazines, but nowadays they use the publicity and attention to actually sell swimsuits. But yeah, I see where this is going. Celebrating obesity or trying to sexualize it by not trying to sexualize something.

No limits assigned to SI. I say they win and receive less criticism, and less subscriptions, if they just reported on sports as illustrated with the best ever action photos of men and women, with or without eye black applied, playing sports.

maybe I'm the only one who didn't, those photos are great!
'

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Ha ha! Don’t flatter yourself.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

ha, another funny connection i have with you. my friend married into a really wealthy family who own multiple homes in seal harbor. like, 1% money. i also ran said marathon, and thought damn, these homes are insane.. who knew, a year later i would be back, and partying at said homes.. lol

Sports Illustrated is now a water cooler and hand cart away from boarding up shop.

https://www.cnn.com/...-layoffs?cid=ios_app

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm curious how the sales of morbidly obese bikini models compared to earlier versions of the magazine.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

How the mighty have fallen.

When I was a kid SI was the be all and end all of sports media, at least the written word. Not to mention countless hours ogling supermodels in skimpy bikinis. There are images of Elle Macpherson, Cindy Crawford, Christie Brinkley, and Kathy Ireland forever burned into my brain.

---

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

We won't see talent like that again. A veritable murderers row.

Agreed! The 80s/90s supermodel talent was ridiculous.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Meh. Not a huge fan of any of those.

HUH???

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

They would do well to bring back Elle, christy and others if they want to show healthy ageing. Not sure what putting large unhealthy people on the cover is supposed to celebrate.

Still AG triathlon has heaps of fat people in lycra.

Dumbass.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I’m still shaking my head over that comment.

What heterosexual male ever looked at pictures of Elle, Cindy, Christie, and Kathy in bikinis at the height of their superpowers and thought “Meh!”?

If they’re meh I’d love to know who was AAA Supermodel hot.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

She visited the early 80's but to me she is the top of the top. Seek immediate medical help if you experience an erection lasting more than 4 hours.

Their online site was decent for football coverage but it's totally unusable now with the amount of janky ads and dearth of talent.

.... Now you may be on to something. May take a bit for the geriatric gen xers or young boomers to pick up on the obvious changes in the media landscape over the last 40 years.

Playboy is gone.
Barstool is huge. Started from nothing. Hosted a college bowl game.
Maybe, just maybe, internet has changed the appeal of SI swimsuit issue.... Not to be viewed as a deviant or corrupt any of the puritanicals.... Maybe access to porn impacted the business. Maybe.
I am not in marketing or media. Just a young gen x, hetero male.

Maybe, combined with the appeal to a broader female demo, and, maybe - with some of the ragebaiting clicks, and further reach by sharing, more clickety clicks, thus $$$$ from advertisers...
Maybe subscriptions have dropped to close zero, for what was a leading publication in its time.

You are spot on, but it still makes me sad.

We lived through the days of one swimsuit issue and periodic Sears catalog arrivals. These were key to developing a healthy sexual appetite!

But the times, they keep on changing.

I used to love the back page with Rick Reilly.

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_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

I think I had a subscription to SI pretty much throughout the 80's. It was without question the best sports mag and the annual swimsuit edition didn't hurt either.

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The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody

For a moment I misremembered HST writing an online column for SI, but it was actually ESPN

https://totallygonzo.org/...ey-rube-espn-page-2/

Although he did do some work for Sports Illustrated

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

This. I used to read that back page first.

Then Faces in the crowd. Then the rest.

I used to get SI for years. Loved it for insider knowledge, and then the random, unexpected Sports/Life crossover stories.

Rick Reilly is a treasure. Here is my all time favorite story he wrote about a High School football ref. I read it on a plane forever ago. Explored so much.

When Your Dream Dies - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI.com

See above post. Meant to reply to you, as you will have deep appreciation.

I worked a game last night, I heard several times about the things I missed. Sometimes it pisses me off but normally it rolls off. I was talking to my friend a few weeks back and told him, the kids haven’t changed much, you have always had your assholes. The coaches haven’t really changed, but was has changed is are the parents. This was written back in 1994 but the parents have gotten worse. I didn’t used to hear parents in the crowd, anymore, that’s all you hear.

Sorry to derail the thread.

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

Kathy Ireland. xoxoxo Thread back on track.

Yeah, this was 1994. I hadn't read it since then. This is why Reilly is great. Random read I bought off a newsstand to pass time on a trip, and I have carried it with me. Not that I am the type to act like an A-hole fan/parent. But at 19 years old, it forever humanized for me all that comes with being a referee.

Sidd Finch

#IYKYK

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Ah, George Plimpton, what a good writer. I really loved his books on football.

One of our partners is a former SI writer. Love talking to him about the old days of sports.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

That was 4 or 5 owners ago!
Time-Life took over in the 40s. Stayed that way until 2018. Time Mag unit was spun off from Time-Warner in 14 and Meredith (Better Homes and Gardens, etc) bought in 18. si didn't fit, so they sold it to Authentic Brands Group (store brands: Brooks Bros, Aeropostal, Forever 21, etc). They licensed/leased si to theMaven (?). They missed their January lease payment to ABG and had the lease terminated yesterday!
Maven laid off the entire si staff yesterday...

Amen. Since SI is going under, this thread needs more pics to commemorate their contribution to society:

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Gotta love it. Imgur just pulled my uploaded Upton SI cover to avoid offending the image sharing community.

“ Hi there!

We're writing to let you know that the post you shared, https://imgur.com/a/EhbFZOu, has been removed from Imgur's public community for violating our Community Rules located at https://imgur.com/rules.

Imgur welcomes a diverse audience, so we aim to create a positive browsing experience free from hateful, explicit, illegal or violent content. We want to keep Imgur a fun place for everyone, so please keep the Community Rules in mind when posting. If you violate the Community Rules again, your account may be suspended or disabled.”

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I just found the picture I wanted screenshotted it and posted it.

We should not discount the many contributions of Vendela in the 90's.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Wow I forgot about her

This needs to be in the tri forum for what is an aero position

Looks like you may have had some insight here.

That and the Cheryl Tiegs fishnet swimsuit are my 2 favorite pics from the swimsuit issues.

When I used to deliver papers there was an old guy that would give me his SIs after he read them. It was such a treat as I loved sports and back in the 80s before the internet there was not much in the way of sports news. The only issue he wouldn't give me was the swimsuit ones! :) I think my parents appreciated that.

Like I said he was an older gentleman that did not seem to have any family around. I was always taught to be polite to my elders so I would listen patiently while he talked. When he passed away he ended up leaving me $250 in his will! Back then for a 11 or 12 year old that was a lot of money.

Thats awesome! ..lol
I had a paper route from '79 to '81. I wish my teenaged son today could of had that whole experience when he was 12..13 ...the responsibility of getting the paper to the doors right after school in timely fashion in ALL weather conditions (always one or two customers who didnt appreciate tardines) , collection day where you soone learned there are deadbeat$ in life and of course meeting kind older folks who really appreciated your service.

As for SI..my mom gave me a yearly subscription for Xmas from about 10 to 16yo. I loved getting it in the mail every week! Another experience I wish my son could have enjoyed. The internet sucks