Ketones

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

Not knowing the world of doping (which is what is implied by the investigation), I would have no idea what a rider would want to carry with him and presumably ingest during an actual race.

There'd be no reason to hide that. My guess is illegal 4G radio for telemetry. Bolstered by the team accidentally admitting they knew he'd crashed when his data stopped, when there was no race-legal data telemetry for that race (per my understanding).

I mean, they are saying it's a "finishing bottle", and that actually sounds pretty bad. So whatever it really is ought to be more serious than what they are willing to admit right now.

4G data sounds about right

anal suppositories have always been popular. Usually caffeine

Looking for the "5K Kick"? tablets or quick liquid shots ingredients are B12/B6, taurine, caffeine, magnesium, creatine,
or whatever they have at the veterinarians' office..

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https://www.velon.cc/...ew-follow-with-velon

Velon transmits live all data. Remco had a velon device.

A bottle of something uncomfortable laying on. Ketones might be right. Maybe that actually removed something that isn’t Nice to lay in. Doesn’t have to mean it’s illegal.
If what you Think is “lets remove the illegal stuff” when your star rider crashes out from a bridge, you’d have to have a Lance Armstrong kind of personality and no empathy whatsoever - dont believe it

Ah, I thought I read Velon wasn't at Lombardia, but that seems false.

Finish bottles are pretty common. I know one team that diluted ground up ibuprofen and caffeine for the last hour. Prior to that tramadol was a fav.

I’ve used finish bottles before. Final feeding opportunity I’d get a bottle with as much First Endurance Pre-race or other that I could stomach at that point in the race. 😂 Maybe there is a reason I never made it to Europe. Honestly I think this is a non-story. I’m sure he wanted his pockets cleared before being strapped to a backboard.

I disagree. I think that prior to being strapped to a backboard wondering whether he'll ever ride a bike again, his first thoughts should have been "I should leave everything in my back pockets so that lying on a backboard with a possible broken back (and numerous actual breaks) is way more uncomfortable, just in case someone on the internet thinks I'm hiding bad stuff".

So a #1 Pro cyclist has to mix his own drinks? Sounds a bit strange to me. I would expect him to receive a regular bottle with a different content, not a small bag he had to mix with a regular bottle.

As back up if only neutral service with water is available?

Have you seen the video? It does not look like a bottle at all. This is my own speculation, but I think it was a transponder which depending on which data he is transmitting is illegal. Bramati messed up first by saying that his data stopped transmitting, then he claimed he took gels, etc. from his pockets. Perhaps at this point he did no realize that there was a video, and in the video it shows he grabs only one object, the white thing.

Interesting. I remember the tramadol thing though. That made the news about five years ago. Didn't realize that finish bottles are still a thing

or it could be something totally innocent like a wrapped rice cake which is very common... but a transponder is another illicit thing? I can not imagine that he would be involved in illicit consumption during a race he could have won. He and the team would know he would be in doping control minutes after finishing.

I have no idea what it was, the video isn't clear enough for me, but if it was just a rice cake, they would have said so

It would be if not for the video that makes it look like the thing was being pocketed secretly. It didn't look like a casual "just cleaning out the pockets to help."

Agree, but really they won't be able to prove anything. He'll just stick to the story that it was something food related, and with regards to his comment about data, he can just say that he meant they stopped seeing footage of him on the tv cameras.......

It really looked like that container women keep their birth control pills in. Some sort of off-white somewhat circular container not more than a half-inch thick.

You should watch the clip. I don't think he reached into the "pocket" you think he reached into.

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If Evenepoel is in fact a woman identifying as a man that would be an awesome story.

OK, definitely not where I was going with this... just meant more a long the lines of not a "finishing bottle"

Even if it was a data transponder, I don’t really care. I think it’s great the teams are doing this even if it is behind the UCI’s back.

The UCI is 20 years behind the rest of the world with their rules. They should be pushing to have all the data the can and to be able to use that during broadcasts. Can you imagine if the FIA didn’t allow F1 cars to transmit data back to their teams until they had a pit stop or got back to the garage?

Anyone know the reason that the data is prohibited?

Who knows what it was, but i don't think they wanted anyone to know it was there either way.

The guy who took it out had specifically went for it by the looks of it. If he were thinking of him not lying on it whilst on the stretcher he'd at least had had a look through all of his pockets not just go for a specific one.

Some kind of illegal telemetry does make sense to me.

Not sure, but perhaps like with many UCI rules, not a lot of reasoning behind it.

Most UCI rules on the past 40 years have been to
- keep the sport in the dark ages
- stop Brits winning.

The 4G data transmitter theory sounds pretty reasonable. I've also got to believe that his team knew exactly what he would have in his pockets. Meaning surely they keep track during the course of a race what food and gels he's given and which ones have and haven't been consumed. So it's also reasonable that they would know what he had in his pockets at the time of his crash which could help explain why they didn't have to go through all his pockets. If that was a finishing bottle and if they knew that's the only nutrition he had on board, then it's reasonable to assume they'd just be looking for one thing. Plus race kit jerseys are tight - so it's also visually to see which pockets are empty and which ones full.

Sure, it wouldn't be so crazy expensive and dominated by two deep-pocketed manufacturers (with occasionally Red Bull-Honda sneaking in a win), and everyone else just kind of going through the motions. :)

F1 telemetry is also highly regulated. For example, it's illegal to electronically adjust car settings mid-race. Telemetry is one-way only. You have to wait until you get back to the pits.

In fact, in general, the scale of F1 regulation makes UCI look utterly bush-league.

I don't know all the reasons. But one reason is that having hundreds of different radios all in a small space can become a huge spectrum management issue. You can have open warfare with teams jamming each other. When you have central control of frequency and power levels you can make sure that everyone's radio works OK. And some of those radios are safety-related.

Yeah, British cyclists never win.

Can’t really compare those, Can you? Much of F1 regulations and the infinite changing of them is mainly for a more fair competition, safety and more entertaining races. If they made no restrictions on the Aerodynamics, the cars would first of all go crazy fast, wouldn’t work within 500 of each other.
Right now they’re using 1000hp 1.6L turbo engines, imagine the same with the old V8 or V10 engines, active aerodynamics (including fans), Ground effect, traction control - they’d probably never go lower than 150kph around any corner, hitting speeds close to 500kph on the straights. Then imagine what happens when two cars colide at that speed, when there’s suddenly no downforce - it’s like a plane crash. Also, the race Engineers could probably control braking/throttle from the pitwall basically making it a Playstation game.
Cant really compare that to the romantic/consertive ideal UCI is working from, especially not with transmitted data

Well if you're looking for a staunch defender of the UCI - that's not me. :)

But most UCI rules are intended for similar reasons. Of course it's easy to bring up exceptions, like sock length. Or lack of regulation around some safety issues, like bollards in the sprint.


We don't know the reasons that transmitted data is regulated. There are plausible technical reasons. And also plausible fairness reasons.

To help clarify this argument I looked up the actual UCI regs, since I wasn't familiar. I think this is it:



One relevant "condition" is that you're not allowed to track other riders (I think it's understandable that secretly adding trackers to other riders isn't allowed).

The other is that the equipment is to be considered part of the bike, and not removable during the race.

So the issue with Evenepoel conceivably having a radio may be that it was removable, not that he had an independent source of data.

I think the "non-removeable" regulation probably came about because most telemetry devices *are* mounted to bikes. And the UCI didn't want people weighing in with that equipment, and then ditching it later to skirt weight limits. (weight limits are a whole other topic).

Also possibly to make the equipment subject to inspection. E.g. no way to verify that you're aren't possibly surreptitiously tracking other riders if you ditch your gear prior to the finish.

I imagine F1 may have similar rules? F1 cars have a minimum weight, and I imagine the telemetry gear is considered part of the car when weighing in. (just guessing, though).

From what I understand, a lot of the tech type rules come down to a few things. "Equity" (there's already a lot of complaining about the resources the "have" teams can access, vs. the "have-nots", smaller teams probably couldn't afford the same types of devices the Ineos' of the world could), paranoia (that the transponders might actually be for teams to remote control motors in the bikes), and out-dated thinking (old school french racers, viewing today's data curious viewers as somehow damaging the sport). I have no problem with a ban on team provided transponders to communicate/track data, because I think that for big races they should be provided by the race organization for all racers, both for purpose of showing things on TV/streams (to see appreciate how hard the racers are working, and to relatively compare) and to look for super sketchy type outputs, that might suggest some LA style dark arts going on too... (the teams probably would fight against this, especially if they engage in those systematic dark arts with their riders, for fear that the data would reveal this).

it doesn't look like a finishing bottle from the footage, with someone in position to fight for the stage, teams aren't dumb enough for someone to get caught with one of those onboard, and wouldn't use a soigneur to destroy the evidence... Based on what I could see, the illegal transponder sounds like the most likely thing, if it's nefarious, otherwise, it could have been anything (including a legal race radio), that was just removed so that he could lie flat on the spine board to avoid further injury...

Well there's nothing wrong with a finish bottle with legal stuff in it. Caffeine, etc.. Which is what makes it a good "excuse" for DQS.

Maybe that's exactly what it is.

i never really considered using my bike computer to find a breakaway opponents HR monitor so that I can see when he's about to blow.

Would be easy to do as well. At races it's hard to find *your own* HRM/power meter if you're stuck in a situation where you're trying to pair in the field.

I think/hope eventually that our HRMs and power meters will have "pairing buttons" like with eTap ,etc, so that it's not just public information.

Apple has been testing a new tracking device called Air Tag. It's small, round and white. You can Google for images.

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http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

Like the one Samsung has had in the market for a few years? https://www.samsung.com/us/trackers/... Apple is always late to the party.

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Team Zoot

According to Brian Holm, Bramati was told by the paramedics to remove everything from his pockets. Maybe it’s just that simple. When you Think your rider is somewhere between death and paralyzed, would the first thing on your mind ti remove the illegal transponder from his Jersey pocket?

After following pro cycling for 30+ years.........yes, it wouldn't surprise me.
Now that said, I am sure he was in fact very concerned for his rider. But yes, they still take care of business.

Good point, But still...if the paramedics told him to remove everything, he would probably do so, wether it was a mashed banana, an illegal transponder or a grenade. He May not tell anyone if he removed anything illegal though

Interesting that this AM on the broadcast Simon Gerrans was talking about how DQS has these on their helmets.

Based on 10 seconds of Google-fu, I don't think those would be considered telemetry devices. They're very short range, I think. Like to find your keys in your house...Bluetooth-like range, not their own 4G-like radio.

The ANGi Crash Sensor is what is on the DQS helmets. It's probably banned by the UCI as well.
https://www.specialized.com/...earchText=60519-8000

Good job I don't do UCI events then !

Marmite? (Or for the real hard men, Vegemite.)

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

It is well known that PowerDot has developed transparent electrodes. Brailsford rides in the team car controlling each rider like a puppet master. What device connects Brailsford's commands and the electrodes? Why, a small white device in the rider's pocket, of course! Evenepoel must be copying the Sky/Ineos/Grenadiers strategy. :)

Apparently the UCI didn't get your memo, today kicking the Frenchman out of the yellow jersey and putting the Brit in yellow for a rinky-dink feeding violation on what was practically a rest day.

Great reply.

Some UCI rules may be goofy, but "Primacy of Man over Machine" is the best guiding principle they ever stated.

The weight limit made manufacturers focus on making solid, reliable parts instead of stupid light unsafe stuff. btw, I saw Caleb Ewan's bike is 0.5 kg over the limit. Extra weight should really hurt such a tiny guy, but he's very happy to prioritize performance over weight.

If dark ages means bikes not looking like bikes then I'm all for the dark ages.

I think the right thing to do here would be a monetary fine to quickstep for being so stupid as to give out a bottle inside 20km....and not just CHF 1000. Something like CHF 50000. But don't charge any time penalty. Make the point and remind everyone that there will be no tolerance when it really matters. But I guess the sanction is fixed so I guess you either enforce it or not.

The sad thing here tonight is a team soigneur is feeling like crap for being unable to measure where the 20.0001 km to go point is and causing the loss of the yellow jersey.

Maybe what Evenepoel was carrying in his backpocket is made by the same company that makes Romain's Bardet HR monitor. It looks a bit strange to me, and unnecessarily big. Anybody can identify it? It is from Today's tour stage.

isn't that just a wahoo tickr on a severely skinny man chest?

That's exactly what it is.

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