No, that's encouraged.

My current plan is I know someone who's been planning for weeks to after a KOM. My plan is to get beat it before he does, hopefully getting a faster time his will be. But I'm not going to immediately upload.

I'll wait until he gets the KOM, and if mine is faster, then I'll immediately up-load it. Uh-oh!

There should be no butt-hurt in Strava or Zwift. Even over blatant cheating.

 
Retake KOMs as quickly as possible. If possible, take a couple extra ones of whoever decided to go after one of yours in the first place.

Send a message that you won't be trifled with.

"Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something."-Thomas A. Edison

And if you really want to ice the cake, take 3 KOMs from them but take one of them without power, cadence or heart rate metrics, just to make them question everything. Maybe they'll spend 5 hours trying to disprove your ability only to come up empty!

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Not sure if you're serious, but if this happens as you've paid out, please follow up with the guys reaction. This definitely made me laugh.

I have a related question:

Under my list of KOMs, if someone takes one of them, does it still show that I had that KOM at one point, or does it vanish entirely?

I don't really care about re-taking it, I just like knowing that at one point I held it.

Holy shit true story... I just came to Slow Twitch to make a Post called 'Stava Etiquette' with a question... then I see this thread at top the list. #slowtwitchhivemind

Anyway my question: If there are 3 consecutive KOM segments climbing along a stretch of road and the current winner has all three of them, obviously obtained in ONE ride, am I a dick if I go and take out each one individually on different days? ie having more rest.

Id like to get them all in a row and it might be within my capability, but in the end does it matter and why?

Is there supposed to be any type of etiquette in Strava?
Basically, if someone takes down one of my KOMS, and on my next run I go right back and take it back...is that frowned upon?


Rarely a concern for me - lucky to slip into the top-10 locally.

But there was one that I had a go at that, I was in the top-10 and it seemed a little soft - so out on a ride recently, I did have an all-out go at it and got it - but my wife beat me to the top. So I was a King, but was beat out by a Queen! That's what happens when you are married to one of the best Master's Women's Road Cyclists in Canada! :-)

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

There's no etiquette except for the decency of individual users. And there are definitely people who cheat when getting segments, either driving them, riding them (for runs), or even using ebikes and editing GPX files before uploading.

Strava will also send you email notifications (if you have them selected) that read "Uh oh! So-and-so just STOLE your KOM!" I mean, if that's not asking you to go remedy the situation... The only reason to not go out right away is if you need to taper for a few days in order to ensure maximum speed. (This is all semi-tongue-in-cheek...)

It's still sort of a "wild-west", though the proliferation of power meters helps things a bit, and if not wild west, it's perhaps a bit like the board game "Risk". Anyway, I have had streaks when I've taken it too seriously – and during the pandemic, it has, at times, satisfied my competitive side amid the lack of racing. I've also had times when I've just needed a Stra-Vacation from it all, due to fatigue, life stress, etc.

So, definitely go take whatever KOM was "stolen" and have fun, and if you need three different days for each semi-segment, then definitely do that (I know I would!). We all need goals, especially right now, and ones that also keep us healthy and having fun are the some of the best kind of goals – even if they are also totally ridiculous in the grand scheme of the gently indifferent universe.

You can do whatever you want. Personally, I don't understand folks that break up climbs into pieces. I recently went back to my favorite mountain, Parowan Canyon past Brianhead in Southern Utah and there are like 12 segments up and down the mountain.
They also race the Tour of Utah there, so pros have some ridiculous fast KOMs.
I say, if someone is going to break up the climb in segments, you can take them out however you like. I'm sure the guy who has them will have a laugh but likely won't care that much if he got them all in one ride.

Revenge should be swift and severe

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_______________________________________________

I recommend waiting until you have a 40mph tailwind and take them all the same ride like he did. Drive to start point, get setup, take a rest and a couple gels then hammer. Casually ride back to the beginning to finish your 15 mile ride. Drive home with your computer still on having one or three (KOM's) for the road.

I have an acquaintance that has a long steep driveway. He’s MOP so he made it a segment to have KOM. Late one night one of his fiends who is much faster rode over and savaged it. It’s a blood sport.

No, it's like you never existed.

The one nobody talks much about that I have I guess the wrong opinion on: girls on group rides with guys.

Never take a pull but bag every QOM in town while sitting in. I always hear “the other ladies could join that ride”. What? And be a leech and never pull also? I am 100% sure there are plenty that could steal my lunch money as a dude rider easy. So no machismo there. But to me that’s double shit etiquette, don’t pull and bag QOMs in the process. Or a guy skipping all the pulls and tying the KOMs.

I’m a dude even, so shouldn't care. But it is reason number 1 I wish they had group vs solo leaderboards.

Oooh, you're vicious. I disagree about blatant cheating, but the waiting to upload is priceless.

Absolutely - the group thing is a totally different animal. I’m not a big Strava guy, but I turned myself inside-out for the few KOMs I’ve managed to get. Silly for some rotating pace line to take them.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

I’d love to do that but unfortunately it is on a tight gravel road in the forest and wind is not a factor and I am using mountain bike for this one. I have considered getting some gravel tires for my road bike though, just for this.

I love it, specific gear upgrades just for KOM glory!

This is not true. It shows you got a KOM on the ride activity. But, vanishes from your KOM list.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

What's a KOM? :)

I'm 60yo and only been riding about a year. I'm happy to just be on the list :)

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Not a coach. Not a FOP Tri/swimmer/biker/runner. Barely a MOP AGer.
But I'm learning and making progress.

Yeah, as shady as a lot of the KOMs are, the QOMs are worse.

I got one of these in my old neighborhood. I had the KOM on a run up a long steep climb in the neighborhood. Didn't even know it was a segment and I had it. Then over the holiday break, I got the email.

Someone was in town visiting and took my KOM. I'm not fast, and only had the KOM because only a few people had attempted it, but I was permanently de throned, as I picked up the KOM doing hill repeats up it very well rested, and it was my best effort that was beat by almost a minute.

So I had this 5k CR for a few months. It was slow with a time of 21:00 or so and I had snagged it in the middle of a 12 mile run. The course itself is very hilly with all up or down and about 400 feet of climbing.

The guy who took it was for out of town and I checked his Strava profile and he is fast. 5k PR in the 15's where my PR is low 17's on flat pavement. He took the time down to 18:36, in the middle of a 12 mile run, no less.

Here is my attempt to reclaim the title:

(I don't know how to embed video on this forum)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfG28WiCTGA

Yes the race footage is very shaky but the audio is pretty funny as I pep talk myself and the dog to the finish line.

"Stay strong Bobo!"

QOM's are a crock. There's a local woman that goes out regularly with a stud rider and he pulls her the whole ride. She'll average 23mph for her ride at like 120 watts. I know she's lighter, but no way she's averaging 23mph and snagging 5 or 6 QOM's at 115 to 120 watts. It's so ridiculous. To add to it, there's a threesome that loves pace lining and taking efforts way down on rides except QOM's and KOM's then it's game on hammer time. These two groups have a major beef and are always at it over penny ante shit. I'm just like whatever...so silly.

GD that made me laugh .....

love ST

I saw a really amusing one the other day in Zwift. I was in Innsbruck and riding the UCI worlds course. The current top time of the hour was something like 25 minutes. It's a 25km course, with a giant mountain in the way. But this guy somehow managed to average 60kph. I only really get *slightly* annoyed at this because I can usually manage a top-15 on any of those timed segments and I was on track for something like 10th that particular day. I was about to get all pissy and mad about it when I saw the 25:00 time when I stopped myself and laughed. I was about to get mad at someone cheating in a virtual world on something that doesn't matter in the slightest to anyone, even me.

To each their own strategy. I am currently at the beach and have hunted down various Strava segments as it fits into my schedule

Scottish cycling legend Sean Connery addressed this very point in an award-winning documentary about Strava called "The Untouchables." He said, and my memory is a bit hazy, but I think I remember it right, "they put one of your KOM's in the hospital, you put one of theirs in the morgue."

It's always interesting to hear a regional perspective . Some people complain about tailwinds, group rides, motorpacing, targeting a very specific segment, barely questionable GPS, etc... When they are fighting for short (<1:20) or convoluted segments.

Let's not forget that they are called "King of the MOUNTAINS" for a reason. Hills (and singletrack MTB segments) are where Strava segments seem to have the most meaning.

We are all f***ed when e-bikes get more popular. I think there will have to be some sort of social media group dedicated to vouching for segment efforts. I think then I'll stick to steep uphill running segments where it is too steep to bike!

I can't believe this thread hasn't mentioned the recumbent guys destroying KOMs. Or the motorized recumbents.

Few weeks ago I did a 3 person 90 mile ride in all race gear taking 1min pulls to take out KOM's all over our area. A week later, a CAT 1 TT rider went out and took most of the harder ones all by himself. Put us to shame hahaha

It is all relative!

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

The Strava Flyby function is great for seeing when the QOMs are getting pulled by some studs pace lining. However, if they don't upload their ride to hide the fact that they are pace lining, maybe leaving a comment on her QOM such as....

Hey, I was out on a ride and saw you riding with 2 studs. 1 was on a red Wilier and the other was on a green S-Works. Why didn't they upload their rides as well? OH! I GET IT! THEY WERE PACE LINING FOR YOU TO HELP YOU GET THE QOM! Wish I had friends like that."

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

And please make sure to post the segment too - I will make the trip and take it from all of you

That! And it's not like it is hard for Strava to distinguish because they have flyovers.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

I love this topic......haha...



I'm not a Cat 1, but I am that "guy". It is what it is, before Strava ever decides to create a "group" or "club" versus "solo" leaderboard it is a bit of an equalizer.

But in the meantime, I'll go out on some 2min and 1min segments that were pacelined by a local team and I'll put on my cyclocross cheapy skinsuit, TT helmet, and take the TT bike out for some destruction. I'll try the longer ones also, but usually the local TT guys already do those.

Some of the comments afterwards are humorous. Sometimes with "flaggings".

Given the TT bike is 20% more power efficient, assuming that's remotely accurate, and that I'm still putting out 90% the power their person pulling is.......TT bike wins.

Typically, not always, typically..........a solo TT rider should be able to be faster than equivalent category racers in a small group. My theory, not fact.

I have one longer one in town that the collegiate team went out and gang banged one night. During a 40k workout recently I got with 10 seconds of an 8+ minute segment alone on the TT bike. Full kit and a single effort and that one's done for.

It hasn't been as often lately. Been super hot and afternoon storms mean I can't venture too far from my house.


Agreed. There's a lot of ass hurt over on Bikeforums about recumbents going out and doing 120w and hitting 30mph for stuff.

On that forum over there they're like an infection nobody wants that constantly bleeds out of its own subforum to insert shitty little comments and replies in the normal forum. Then they get all pissy when folks are like "we don't come piss on your recumbent forum parade, so GTFO." It's almost like the scene from the original F&F "move along pizza boy!".

I really wish they'd moderate that forum better.


People pay money for the "realistic" aspect of the game. Having stuff like that does damage the realism. Butthurt or not. So, it boils down to "I've paid solid money for this" for me.

I didn't pay to see super unrealistic stuff happening in the game. I don't want to see unicorns on bikes flying by at 40mph uphill. That's bullshit. I didn't pay for that.

One solid way they can police that is to ban virtual power from fluids and non-smart trainer setups from the leaderboards. It would make some folks butthurt, but if you can afford $200/year for Zwift you can afford a freaking $300 Tacx wheel on smart trainer. Man/woman up if you want to be on the leaderboard.

In other video game "worlds" people who do that stuff routinely get permanent bans not just from the game, but from the provider's platform.......like Xbox live, etc........

Zwift is a weird microcosm of the cycling world since it is a group of more rabid riders to pay for a virtual platform. So there will be more freakishly strong folks.

This is why I actually feel Strava leaderboards are more legit (barring e-bikes). Zwift lets some pretty heavy riders get away with some speeds and feats I've NEVER seen on a Strava leaderboard by people the same weight. The team I race with on Zwift even posted results the other night from a race they did. Cat C dude threw out 350w for almost an hour at only 3w/kg. My ass that speed/result would happen IRL. It wasn't even Tempus or something, there were hills.

Too much coffee this morning.

No, because not everyone uploads to strava. There's no reason to make it more complicated anyway.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

This is just me:

If someone creates a segment and holds the KOM or QOM on it they are inviting everyone to try to take it.

If someone holds a KOM, the original invitation still stands. It doesn't matter to me if they are working in a group or not, as long as they aren't riding an ebike, moto pacing or driving a car to get the KOM...more power to them.

Sure sometimes they won't get it, but most of the time it will work because someone else will upload

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

He'll put out 350 to 400 watts and she's doing 118 at the same average mph. She knows she's drafting his power and seems to not care. Lmao...

i hadn't bothered to read this thread as i was like "Strava Etiquette", whatever!
i'm glad i finally did, hilarious stuff and mostly true!

That's true. All of them in that group seem to have loose morals anyway. It would still be funny to leave that comment on her ride though because when people check to see the QOM, most likely they will scroll down and read the comments. Maybe it would be jaw-dropping enough for others to comment. Then, very time she gets a Strava notification she'd have that ride in the back of her mind, wondering if everyone is talking about her cheating ways, making it at least a but unpleasant instead of the pat on the back she was hoping for in getting the QOM ;)

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

Honestly think it's all fair game unless there's a motor or GPX file doping involved. If going out in a group and targeting specific segments is what motivates people to get on their bike then so be it.

I know a 100kg guy who has an encyclopaedic knowledge of local segments, waits for a windy day, and then heads out in full TT gear to try and set KOMs on a flat or slightly downhill segment with a screaming tailwind. He doesn't race, he doesn't train enough to be competitive if he did race or if he targeted uphill segments or segments on a non wind-assisted day. So that's where he gets his competitive kicks from him, and who am I to criticise?! Maybe if he was riding in dangerously windy conditions, but he's a fairly risk-averse guy who hasn't crashed in the decade I've known him.

Only time I have an issue with KOM/QOM hunting is if people go about it like dickheads. E.g. jumping red lights, endangering other road users, or shouting at people to get out of their way.

She would think about that comment and hold a grudge over it. It wouldn't make her think twice though. She's insecure and will always have some new excuse. When you live and die by the crowns, then usually that person is overcompensating for something else. I'll admit that I've smashed a lot of KOM's only to have someone go out later and usually take it with a hurricane on their back. No sweat though. KOM's aren't important unless you make them important.

A few years back I went out on a ride specifically planned to take as many KOMs as I could, think I got around 10. Even called the ride KOM Hunting, or something like that. A guy I took most of them from was the dad of a couple of my buddies, next time I saw him at a race he jokingly told me he put a bounty on each of my KOMs that I took from him.

Now I only have 1 KOM, oddly not from that ride, and one I didn't even know existed while doing it, but it's over 5 miles long and not really one anyone goes for either. It used to be fun when everything was new, but now you have to have a tailwind and really hammer to get so many of them it's a lot tougher to game it.

I like the competitiveness about it also. Scratch that, I LOVE IT! My favorite 25km ride is relatively straight, and when the conditions are right it is a blast. I've done it at 41.5kph and now hold 6th but that was of course with a hefty tailwind. Today was 39.2kph and I didn't even manage a 3rd best on any of those sections of the 60km ride, even with a pretty nice tailwind. Which gets me to this...
Some things we can't control such as wind or traffic lights (that route has none), but we can control drafting, So that is where I draw my line for what's acceptable in KOM hunting.

That's funny though. I just checked the segment on Strava and could see the leaderboard, but when I went back to see another leaderboard segment I can't see anything. Might be time for me to switch apps now. I wouldn't mind paying cash for a year's subscription, but I don't want them having my credit card number, especially after what happened to Garmin recently.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

I feel you. I live in Boulder area and most if not all segments are owned by pro-cyclists, retired pros or cat1-2 "amateurs" that either live here or train here in the summer. Especially climbing segments, no chance to get even into top 100.

But really puts into perspective of how different you are and pro level athletes.

Perhaps you meant this as an exaggeration but nobody is staying in a normal persons 350-400 watt draft with 118 watts.

That's like 28-30 mph flat ground

This and the quips about the QOMs make absolutely zero sense. Drafting and pacelining is one of, if not THE, most essential aspect of bike racing.

That you would decry that in regards to Strava KOMs and QOMs is bizarre. It's what bike racing is all about.

I'm not a terribly experienced cyclist but for KOM/QOM (King/Queen of the, "Mountain", being the key word) are pace lines really that big of an aid when getting up serious climbs? Maybe I'm being pedantic but it sounds like we are mostly discussing what Strava refers to as CRs (course record, fairly flat stuff).

I've never received a CR on the bike, only KOMs. And all but one of those have been on descents. The only CRs I've ever gotten have been on runs...

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

I agree rubik, I don't really understand the issue with pacelines and QOMs or KOMS. Lots of women ride with men, and some are just as strong or stronger, and some women can be the weakest in the group just like some men can be the weakest too. Any segment that is heavily influenced by pack riding and wind, will always be silly to care about. Not to mention if a pro race comes through!

I personally only really 'care' about some of the fun mountain bike segments in my area as they are all done solo, but even trail conditions can heavily influence these. Some mountain bike segments are also faster in the winter on fatbikes in my area if conditions are good.

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I agree with this. I don't care about pacelines at all, that feels fair. It seems silly to be mad about it, and yet different really silly things DO bother me for some reason. A guy beat me on a 10 minute climb recently by 8ish seconds. His comments on the ride are always something like, "just taking it easy out there today, surprised to grab a few KOMs along the way!" And I'm sitting there looking at his 30 mile ride in which he averaged 150 watts, but averaged like 400 watts over those three segments just SO ANNOYED that he's pretending like he wasn't gunning for them. As if anything matters!

There's a guy in my area who does something similar this. He'll ride out like 20 miles from his starting point to the local hill in my town at a very leisurely pace, HAMMER up this ~4% hill which is like a 3:00-4:00-ish minute climb depending on your fitness, then another leisurely 20-mile spin back home. Seems like a lot of time to invest in doing a single hill "repeat". He's pretty fast on the hill but his PR is nowhere near the KOM (there's a lot of good cyclists around here) so I don't understand why he rides like this.

I am not a bike racer, so give me a little leeway. What I don't like about bike racing is that I think it should be an individual sport instead of a team pulling a sprinter to the end and having him or her sprint to the end. I know all the teams are doing exactly that so I understand the current format. There is no way around drafting in a cycling race. I really do get it. It just feels sneaky for me when the other riders don't really get as much support that only 1 of their team does.

Maybe it is because of this. I was just starting that same 25km ride a while back. I saw a guy just coming down the ramp starting his ride, but I already had a good head of steam so I figured he wouldn't be able to keep up. Unknowingly, he latched on and stuck with me until I was almost done. I turned to clear my nose and that fooker was right there. I had pulled him the whole way, and right at the end he got out of the saddle and hammered as I coasted to the last 50 meters. Then gloated by lifting up and taking his hands off the bar.

Yeah, he may have gotten ahead of me for the last 50 meters, but we know who the real work horse was. I just hate that fooking crap.
As far as I know, no one around here is riding in a group to take all of the KOMs. Other guys are taking advantage of the wind and I have lost quite a few KOMs, which when I checked, were on very windy days. However, I never see serious groups on that route.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

30 mile ride. His 284w. Hers 122w. Both averaged 22.8mph. She only pulled 1 QOM on this ride, but has managed to pick off multiple QOM's in almost every ride and piss off every female cyclist in our area. She is a true wheel sucker if there ever was one. Lol!

I wouldn't be surprised if she has 74,932 followers, get's at least 50K thumbs up on each of her rides within an hour of it being uploaded, which has at least one girly pose showing off her curves, and the comment section of each ride includes a fuckton of emojis and comments about her bike from the guys dreaming "What do you think the chance are of a guy like you and a girl like me... ending up together?"

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

Not sure I understand why the new "Local Legend" status awarded by gender, its based on participation not performance.

That made me laughing so hard 😂😂😂

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Morten Falk Størling
Blog l Instagram l Facebook

I’m not really into the Strava KOM thing, but some guys I ride with may take off now and again chasing them. I may ride simply to ride hard during certain segments without knowing the specific Strava segments. But, I have always viewed a KOM as an individual thing, not something that represents who happens to ride with the strongest riders. I understand that drafting and pace lining is a major part of bike racing. But, since essentially all of us ride for exercise/fun, I can never quite wrap my head around the rider in the group—and there’s one in every group—who prides himself on exerting the least amount of power/energy during a group ride by drafting the most and pulling the least. That’s the same person who grabs a KOM by drafting off others. I don’t really care what others do, but, yes, it’s an odd accolade to claim if you don’t do it without help.

I have a similar strategy ready to go. Local guy is a beast. Has 100’s of them. Very competitive. Always taking them back ASAP. Quite snarky with his titles at times.

I have about 4-5 on private that I took. I’m waiting for him to reclaim one of my active ones then I’ll drop one of those hidden ones straight away. If and when he gets that one another will get dropped and so on. Getting 1-2 others to do likewise; they live further afield. He won’t know where to look.

I need to start collecting more to prolong the game.

Oh I’ll explain - it’s to get the KOMs

I'm glad someone got the movie reference ;)

And here I am stuck with 15 kudos on a pretty epic ride that almost had me hurling. 20 tops.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

As compared to riding past grazing dinosaurs or through an active volcano...

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

I do something similar. There's a .4 mile slight uphill segment with a little kicker at the end just a few miles from my home. A few years ago, I did a ride where I was surprised to see that I was just outside of the top 100 on that segment, out of over 16,000. So I decided to see how much higher on the board I could get. That segment is usually towards the end of a ride, so I'll have a 20-50 mile ride where my power is 3x higher than the rest of the ride for a minute. I'm up to #23, but doubt I'll get much higher, let alone get the KOM. I just like doing it, partly to see how high on the leader board I can get, and also as a fitness check. On rides that include that segment, I generally consider the sprint the finish line, and then the last 3.5 miles home are my cool down...

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

No.

All that matters in bike racing and KOMs is speed.

That's what it represents.

How that's accomplished (assuming no nefarious means) really doesn't matter. It's what makes bike racing, bike racing.

At the end of the day, if you don't like it, you can simply go ride it faster and be the king or queen yourself.

:D :D :D

Well that was kinda my point. The post i replied to was stating it isnt about your speed. It’s about leaching onto the fastest group possible. In a sport in which we are all amateurs simply exercising for our own good. Pathetic.

This thread got way too serious... meaning too many people take strava KOMs/CRs too seriously. Yeah, flag e-bikes or those using bikes/wheels on run CRs, but beyond that, it doesn't fucking matter how anyone gets a KOM/CR. You want rules, go do a TT.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

"All Runners are Liars" - Bart Yasso
"Never trust a Cyclist" - Phil Liggett

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Then ask Strava to make a "King And His Court" title for the people who want a title for riding in a group and leave the KOM for the individual "King."
Problem solved.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

/thread

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Worse is pros motorpacing and taking KOMs.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

This is the future


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoUmgMhn2iY

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

And grabbed a KOM at the beach :-)

I lost my 20654 on Torrey Pines. Game on!

It actually makes perfect sense. King of the Mountain is about 1 person being the fastest over a given distance, not your team against my individual best effort.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

KOMs are really a nonsense. The only way they would make sense as a measure of anything is if they were considered TTs, only to be claimed if you're not drafting. Even then weather would remain a big factor, and blatant cheating would remain virtually impossible to prevent.
Group riding is a big part of what road racing is about, but this is not road racing. This is a meaningless unqualified statistic for a few people to use to feed their egos.

I agree that KOMs are kind of pointless, and even mentioned so in another Strava thread about them. Riders who brave the hurricanes and tornadoes aren't technically cheating, but IMO 1 of the most accurate ways to tell who is the fastest is watts/kg, which I don't think Strava has. At least not the free version. Since everyone is using the wind to set KOMs, that is just 1 of the things no one can control so we gotta accept that. I guess some people think that their buddies and/or partners turning off Strava then pulling them along to snag a KOM is some sort of accomplishment. But the last time I checked my Strava account only my name was on it. I don't know. Maybe other peeps have a group version.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

Which Circle of Hell should all this KOM nonsense be allied to then? I'd say "Fourth"

First Circle: People Who Fudge Their Training Logs
Second Circle: Bike Thieves
Third Circle: Race Bandits, Bib-Swappers, Bib-Copiers, and Those Who Take TWO Finishers Medals
Fourth Circle: Dopers, Course Cutters, and Other Assorted Cheats [may include people having extramarital affairs with a Coach or Running Partner, but not always]
Fifth Circle: Gamblers, Sportswriters, and People Who Make up Charity Scams
Sixth Circle: Sports Agents
Seventh Circle: Team Owners
Eighth Circle: League Commissioners
Ninth Circle: Al Davis ... Alone for now, but saving spaces for Jerry Jones, OJ, Joe Buck, The Krzyzewski/Pitino/Calipari Triumvirate and Roger Goodell

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Strong start, weak finish...

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" I take my gear out of my car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of of their lives shocks me. "
(opening lines from Tim Krabbe's The Rider , 1978

Strava has 3 rules for segments: No vehicles, no using a different type of activity to grab KOMs, and no KOMs due to bad GPS.

That's it. Drafting is fine, get over it.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Well it accomplishes getting the KOM. There's that.

And your point is disconnected from the very nature of bike racing.

Going as fast as possible is the point (when that's the goal). Typically that's done in a group. That's not "pathetic", that's the entire foundation of the sport.

It's not a problem Strava needs to solve. It's a problem slow people that want a particular KOM need to solve.

So go get your own team.

Or just get faster.

Cycling =/= individual time trials.

Sorry if this is news for you.

Everyone's Hell is a little different; that's mine

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Slow people need a group to beat fast people. Go out with your Court (who is doing all the real work) and grab all the KOMs you like if that makes you feel as if you accomplished something. Those of us who see you latching on know what's really going on.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

No one in my Saturday group ride is making a living off bike racing. So, yes the person that rides the coattails of others all day long is pathetic. I don’t really care. I’m in it for the exercise. So, I would rather work harder within the same ride and reap the benefits of doing so than declare myself “fast” by leaching onto other’s speed. But, there are obviously many people that act as exactly as you describe. Whatever floats your boat.

Like I wrote to rubik, if latching on to fast people to carry you through 90% of the ride so you can sprint to the end makes you moist, go ahead on then. Don't expect admiration from those of us who do all of our own work ourselves though.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

Anyone expecting admiration from strava records is just sad. As is caring enough about a KOM/CR to look into it enough to find drafting is the reason.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

I think one of the best things you can do to try to get the results you prefer to see on segments (from other people) is to carefully design the segment. The other thing you can do is to be judicious about which segments you really care about.

If you don't like pace line segment results, design the segment to deter that. Then don't care about segments along major group ride or team routes. That's their normal territory. They likely group ride that thing all the time.

Either way, apply the 20% power figure for TT anyway to likely competitors. Even pros, for 400w for an hour on road bike that would up the ante to 500w for an hour if you put that 400w into a TT bike. Who's going to paceline 500w for an hour? Solo rider can still win.

If you want a TT that won't get pacelined, dog-leg the start off of a little neighborhood street. Or dog-leg the ending into a neighborhood street that would ruin a group ride route.

The one thing I've seen a couple times local to me is a pro of some kind is in town for some reason or another. Goes out on a ride. Then proceeds to gobble up 5 to 10 "mere mortal" KOMs. I'm not talking the local known KOMs that are pretty popular. I'm talking about going out and tossing out 500w for a couple minutes in the local neighborhood where there's only 50 people on the leaderboard. Probably all living in that neighborhood. Good job, you beat everyone on the segment "Bob from accounting's last mile home" by 3 minutes on a 5 minute segment. Such an achievement.

It's not news to me. Ever since I was little I saw sneaky little ways slow people would do to try and win races. At first it was trivial stuff like cutting corners, you know, shit kids do when they think no one will know. Then they do other sneaky little things like trying to block others, pull on their arms, hang their elbows out, not keeping their lane... shit like that.
Cycling does the same. They get a team of riders to pull a sprinter to a good position to sprint from, and even go so far as to hang their arms out, block other riders from a good position, and recently, not keep their lane to send other racers into the stands.
Nah, I'd rather ride alone.
And since this is a triathlon forum where many of the races are non drafting and more of an individual sport, not a cycling forum, I figured there would be a bit more pride in a person's individual ability.
Go ahead on though braddah. Get all up in that ass you stud muffin.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

You're taking Strava *waaay* too seriously.

If you like pure individual effort, then target steep climbs where drafting doesn't really help.

Also you might take a look at GPSRace.cc. It also doesn't explicitly ban drafting, but it is a neat alternative to KOMs.

Since you can create your own "Races" in GPSRace, you might be able to create your own rules for a specific race.

You can call yours "Slug's Get-Off-My-Damn-Lawn No Drafting No Fun Race"

Also your sig line is completely unsurprising to me. :)

I would have used "pride" instead of admiration, but there is no pride in getting sucked to the front by domestiques.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

Way I see it, he can still get them. TT bike still is a huge equalizer. It's just not a super popular hobby in the US, and not everyone rides their tri or TT bike balls to the wall downhill and around corners like they do in pro TT's. Even if you're weak, riding it like you stole it is worth tangible time.

The lap record for the flatter local RR is just shy of 28mph for the P/1/2 race. That's about the WORST situation for a local trying for a solo segment time. Going against a P/1/2 category on a pretty flat race course. 28mph might be a stretch for most solo on a TT bike, but it's not out of the realm of possibility at all. We've got locals doing around 27mph on similar routes for a Covid segment TT contest on only like 260w. I'd bet 310 to 320w for 30min would do it. That's not unreasonable at all for a road race segment.

You didn't see what I wrote about KOMs in another thread or this one, and even how I think they are a crock due to all the drafting, E-bikes, how those who have the schedule or balls to ride in a hurricane, or how even a watt/kg comparison is more accurate on who is fast. KOMs are simply a time for me to strive for to help me get faster. 1 ride I got 32 KOMs, big frigging deal. Anyone, including a lady with a higher watt/kg ratio would have made me look silly if she rode the same route at the same time. Only 4 of my followers have ever met me in person and they also know KOMs are a crock. So, I am not taking KOMs as seriously as you think. But what I am doing, I am doing them by myself, under conditions anyone else could have ridden at the same time.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

The funny thing is that I am on a road bike with aero bars, which probably helped because it acted like a parachute;) I just got word this week of a huge bonus and the go ahead from the wife, so a TT bike is a real possibility soon, and my road bike will be converted to a climbing bike for local rides with friends, and maybe even for trekking.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

HAHAHAHA, I love it! Thanks braddah. I will definitely use that if I make it hahaha.

I have been looking for an alternative to Strava and GPSRace might be the ticket. Nothing wrong with having both though. To be honest though, climbing doesn't have the same draw as speedy flats do. I appreciate the suggestion and we have some lovely mountains here, but it is going to take a lot more than beautiful pics for me to enjoy the mountains.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

Agreed...especially when they admit to motorpacing in the ride comments, and don't bother to reclassify or flag their own rides :-/

Tejay has a habit of doing this when he's training locally...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I think it's part of this attitude that the rules don't apply to them and what they do takes priority. One time I was riding by myself on a wide shoulder, and I herd this incessant honking behind me - obviously the horn of a small vehicle, motorbike or some sort. Prepared to be annoyed by the usual bike-hating motorist, i was surprised when I was passed by a pro on a well-known team being motorpaced by his coach who continued to honk all the way by me. I was all the way right and holding a straight line.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Ever met a sprinter?

People that don't care don't make multiple posts about something they don't care about...

So much anger and discontent. Someone take your last KOM?

The professional (and amateur) sport of cycling must be completely foreign to you.

Well good on ya! I'm sure your sterling aspirations at mediocrity are well appreciated on page 19 of all those local segments on which you're so unserious.

You're a regular bastion of performance banality.

Other than my Garmin stats uploading to Strava, I’m not even on it. I don’t even know how to look up a KOM, let alone try to capture one. So, when I say I don’t care, my actions fully support my words. I’m done with you.

Well thanks for sharing your carefully considered views about Strava KOMs and how they actually only matter enough to you to talk about how they don't matter to you.

Okay then.

Sorry I struck such a nerve with something so dear to you.

I love this question. I think anyone who's gone after a KOM has had similar thoughts. But you have to think of going after a segment like a race. If someone beats you in a race, no hard feelings. They were just better/faster/stronger than you. Pony up and get better. Likewise, if you beat them, they shouldn't be upset.

"If you ain't first, you're last." - Ricky Bobby

Well now you're just confused.

I just skimmed the last couple of pages of this and wow, you really know how to be unpleasant about trivia for no particular reason!
Be nice, or at least try.....no?

I disagree as feel KOMs make me push harder. One of my best efforts was a 50mi KOM on a 1mi track.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Nah.

It's racing on a road. It's road racing.

That you don't like it doesn't really matter, right?

I mean, if it's truly meaningless to you, then that should preclude you from having any feelings about it whatsoever anyway, yeah?

It's like post after post of people whining about how meaningless it is and how much they don't care about it.

The irony is comical.

Why don't all the other woman in the area get together and work together to take it off her then? Or find some guys to ride with and take it off her? Easy fixed if you or they are going to fixate on it...

It's what road cycling is all about. Strava provides a way for people to play games is all.

In my own small world, I was one. Then when I got the legs to further and faster I realized I like that better than sprinting.
Posting frequency doesn't imply care. I'm just giving you guys a hard time because I dislike people trying to latch onto my rides. I'm sure it isn't the best training technique and I don't use a coach, but I go out every time with the intention to push really hard for as long as I can once I warm up. Tailgating sucks when driving a vehicle for obvious reasons so I don't like it when people try to latch on to me. Drafting isn't against the rules for KOM hunting, but it should be IMO.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

Well, you really are trying to justify your need to draft though.
I've had about 300 KOMs on the most popular cycling route in my area, and I am currently on the leaderboard on almost all of the segments. Bring your team out here so this 52 year-old can have something to shoot for Mkay?

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

See comments above.

You're 52 years old and whining about something you claim you don't care about, using words like "mkay" and "braddah"?

It gets better and better!

The irony of you claiming something is nonsense and meaningless, yet trying to influence other people to view it as nonsense and meaningless.

It's hilarious. And nonsensical. And ironic.

Guess how much influence you have on what other people consider meaningful and entertaining?

Exactly zero.

You seem to be confusing yourself. Perhaps you think there's some self evident logic in what you've written, but I don't see it.
Care to explain the irony to me?

Incidentally, I never said it wasn't entertaining. I said Strava KOMs are a nonsense and a meaningless statistic. However, that doesn't stop any of us investing our own meaning for the hell of it. I regularly pluck numbers out of thin air and make them a target for motivation. So what? That's not the same as it being a meaningful measure of performance per my previous comment.

You've letting this topic get away from you.
You were saying cycling is all about group riding and suggested those of us who think KOMs are less valid because of group tactics are idiots. Instead of arguing your position, it seems to have vanished and now you're saying essentially nothing.

I say something's meaningless, you say my comment is meaningless. I mention irony and suddenly you're saying my posts are ironic. Is that the depth of your debating creativity?

I've explained it three times. If you're incapable of understanding what's written, there's little more for me to do.

No, I didn't say that was what cycling is all about. No, I didn't say that about KOMs.

Perhaps this is why you're so confused? You can't understand what's explicitly stated, and then you make up things that aren't written?

The following is post#81 in this thread and where I engaged in your discussion with Slug.
See the bits in bold above and below? Your point surely is as I claimed above and yet you've just completely denied it.
You may have said things 3 times, but you haven't explained as far as I can see.
You say I'm the one who's confused? I may need you to explain it all to me.

Are you perhaps talking about the finer points of drafting and pacelining... that it's not a subset of group riding?

Cycling =/= bike racing.

I hope that helps alleviate some of your confusion.

rubik wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

It's racing on a road. It's road racing. Is it really a race? It's a list of times recorded separately whether you are interested/trying or not. Competition is inferred by some, but does that really make it a "race"? I think it's debatable.

Clearly I don't think so either!

So you're replying to yourself at this point?

Nice try. I see you edited that to remove the evidence that you had quoted my quote and therefore can't deny already knowing my position regarding KOMs as "racing" before you pretended to enlighten me that cycling and racing are not the same thing.

This is getting pathetic.


Go back and look at all your replies to me and others over the last few pages. There's an awful lot of little one line insults or attempts to reframe things. More of the same......

Whining about "mkay" and "braddah"? That's all you got? I'm not surprised, coming from a wheel sucking turd burgler.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

Was this you?


https://www.slowtwitch.com/...tual_World_7747.html

Ha! I am a chick and this burns my nuggets every time! I was actually oblivious to it until I witnessed the girl that holds many of the segments among a pack of dudes. Oh well, all you can do is laugh and keep training!

I'm a dude, and I've run into that issue personally a few times. I was doing BWR, and got into a pack of 5-6 people on the back half of the course, and set up a good rotation. There was a woman in our group. She'd skip every pull, even though she was clearly one of the stronger members of the group. That didn't bother me, though. By the end we dropped most of our group, and it was just me and her - she was camped out on my wheel. In the last mile or so I started hearing a bunch of cheers, and it dawned on me that the leading woman was just ahead of us, and I was closing the gap. That's when I sat up. Just didn't feel right. She's never given me the time of day since.

You are hereby awarded my "internets" for the day. You win.

I would've tried to make a deal with her: "If I can give you to great finish, you can give me a happy ending"


#nogiftsgiven

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Unnecessary, disgusting, and the pink doesn't help much.

Fair enough. But she wouldn't have given him the time of day even after he drug her ass all the way to the lead. Now he keeps his pride and doesn't get friend zoned. And, I bet she tells all her "friends" that she lost because of him, thereby letting them know that they can't dangle the vajayjay in front of him and expect him to jump through hoops at every whim.

Win/win/win.

Oh, I almost forgot. The faster woman won.

4X Win.

Jeez, even when you hit a grand slam in the bottom of the 9th you get tossed under the bus.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

Sorry, I don't follow that line of thinking at all.
Seems childish, petty and misogynistic to me.

What if she had been, say, a junior male racer for example. He'd sat in with a stronger group of men and taken no turns. Approaching the leading junior racer, Trail decided the guy didn't deserve to be handed the lead in the junior category and sat up, which seems fair enough to me. Nothing is different to the actual case, except that sexism is no longer a factor. If Trail were to act differently when it's a woman, albeit in jest, it would be taking advantage of the fact the other athlete is female.

I find it astonishing you would try and justify sexual harrassment like that.... bearing in mind that the original comment was in pink so while I found the remark inappropriate, I assume RandMart wouldn't actually condone doing it.

That's why I wrote "fair enough." Don't take any of this so seriously though. He wrote it in pink and while mine wasn't in pink, it was just joking. Nice try though, but I am not justifying sexual harassment. Take a chill pill.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

You're both right; I didn't think that comment through well enough, even with the pink

And of course I wouldn't actually say or do such a thing IRL

I apologize on all accounts

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Fair enough. All is well once more...