I rented a Revolt for a day with that semi-hydraulic set up. This was for gravel biking north of Boulder. I didn’t like it. It works but it doesn’t feel nearly as smooth as a full hydraulic setup.

I have an aluminum Cannondale Topstone that I really like. As you mentioned, tire clearance is a top priority. If I was going to replace my bike, I would be looking at the Revolt, like you, and the Specialized Diverge and newer carbon Cannondale Topstone. That rear suspension system on the Topstone is pretty intriguing, especially after you’ve spent some long hours on gravel, you’ll want every bit of smoothing you can get.

Although for a point of comparison, I took my XC mountain bike for a 2 hour gravel ride yesterday, and it’s so much more comfortable at handling the bumps in the road. It isn’t aerodynamic, you have only one hand position, and you can’t add all the bags like a gravel bike, but it was great for just enjoying a smooth ride on rough roads & trails.

The revolt is low compared to the Topstone and checkpoint.

Hydraulic comes at a cost no getting away from that. The semi hydraulic seems to review better than mechanical not as good as pure.

Issue is is it that big a point of difference. A checkpoint 5 will probably do me though

Ive been using a Crux and it's fun bike...but...refer to #2. I've been looking at the Diverge, 3T Exploro, Cervelo Aspero, Evil Chamois Hanger or the Mason Bokeh. Long list...I really don't know what I want is the problem.

I think I want super wide 650b tire clearance...but how much do I really need? IDK.
I think I want as many bottle bosses and mount points as possible...but will I really go bike packing with it? IDK.

Ive only ever used hydraulic disc brake setups...save for my P5x with the TRP Hy/RD setup which I guess is still technically hydraulic.

this is a decent list of bikes for your research
https://bikepacking.com/...x/650b-gravel-bikes/

Buy a Lynskey titanium frameset and build it up with your custom parts.

The mechanical / hydro brakes aren’t that big of a deal. But is Tiagra 11 speed? If so, that brake system plus a non-11 speed drivetrain would make me turn to other bikes.

I think the new Exploro is cool, but I would be mainly interested in hunting Strava segment and having a bike that is less painfully slow on the nearly inevitable stretches of pavement between dirt roads.

It seems like the Exploro and the Cervelo are more road bikes reconfigured to haul butt on gravel and less about comfort, stability and bike packing utility. The fact that you can de-tune them a bit to be better for bike packing and general use is a handy bonus

Coming from a different angle (I design and build frames, so handling becomes paramount before the details are dialed in), determine this first -- do you want something that leans more toward road race bike responsiveness, or longer-range stability? It makes a big difference.

You'll be encountering things off pavement that you'd never see on pavement, and they're going to want to throw you off your line. If you're comfortable battling that on road-neutral geometry, then go for it. I've found that maximizing front center and upping trail towards the MTB-like range makes all the difference in the world for ease of descents, staying steady on rougher terrain, etc., and saving endurance on long and potentially abusive rides. The caveat is that you have to balance it with wheel flop.

But once you determine that feel you really want, and what the geometry is that will get you there, you'll find the market pared down for you significantly.

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http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

 
I think the "gravel geometry" that most brands are using sucks.
Tires bigger than 40C are not necessary unless you are bikepacking, going slow, or are a heavier rider.

It mostly is determined by what "gravel" means where you ride. In the PNW Cascades, it usually means a lot of up and down, not a lot of flat, and rocks the size of baseballs half-buried in the till.


Regardless, having the clearance for big shoes doesn't necessarily mean you have to use it all.

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where do you live, and on what sort of stuff do you intend to ride? i ask because 45mm is not a wide tire. 53mm is a wide tire. in my opinion, the gravel bike of my present is the gravel bike of a lot of peoples' futures: one bike with two sets of wheels: 50-55mm tires on a set of 650b wheels, and another set of 700 wheels that might have 28mm to 32mm tires for road or mostly road with rideable dirt.

this of course requires disc brakes, because you can't use multiple wheel sizes and rim brakes. if my strategy becomes your strategy, this informs the choice of bike, because most bikes fail in the ability to accept this fatter 2" and wider tire. it's an OPEN WI.DE or a 3T Exploro or something like that. all this assumes that you'll want/need that wider tire. i went riding with a buddy over the weekend, a lot of steep and rocky dirt, he had 38mm tires on 700c wheels, and he had a lot harder time than i did.

think about your use case. the 3 most important things in a gravel bike are, in my opinion, it has to fit you, the gearing has to be right (esp on the low end) and the tire size you want has to be available on that bike.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I have a Tiagra 10 speed Bikesdirect bike. Main thing is to look at what gearing you want. I have a 46/36 in front and an 11-34 in the rear. For the most part its plenty. Yes its an CX bike, but it works pretty darn well. I have 38mm tires on it.

I upgraded to TRP Spyre brakes, top of the line mechanical disc brakes, works worlds better then the crappy bb5s I had on. I don't know if hydraulic is necessary on a gravel bike, but on my Mtn and fat bikes they sure are nice.

A lot depends on the type of gravel you have around you. Mine is mainly limestone in the Midwest and there really is no need to go wider than 40s.

I think the best gravel bike is a XC hardtail with a rigid fork.

The top "gravel" tires over at bicycling rolling resistance are a pair of treadless XC tires from continental.

I guarantee you a 2.2 inch 700 c tire will be faster on gravel. It may not feel like it in the first 1 min, but after 1 hour...it'll be faster.

Watch: In ten years, gravel bikes will be running 2.2 tires.

The best XC rider in the world is running basically treadles 2.4 tires.

Some areas just have a lot of aggregate that merits using tires bigger than 40mm.

Oftentimes people say that if the surface demands tires bigger than 40mm, it's better to use an MTB. I think this misses the point of what an MTB actually is: optimized for technicality. Not all routes with chunky gravel are technical. If you've got roads with chunky aggregate that aren't technical, and especially if your riding also has pavement mixed in, using fat fast-rolling tires on a road-esque gravel bike can be significantly faster and more fun than using a mountain bike.

And in my area, even on roads that are mostly pretty smooth, sometimes there's spots where giant aggregate was dumped to ensure good drainage or whatever on the cheap. Here's a particularly nasty one from a recent ride:



I see wheels and tires damaged all the time on that kind of crap, and nobody wants to hike-a-bike every time they see a rough patch. Bigger tires reduce the risks, protect equipment.

Personally, I think you're still a bit premature on that...if only for the fact that there aren't any 650B tires in that size that perform as well as the best 700C x 38-43C range tires out there.

Then again, if tire makers get smart and...and let's say...create a 650B x 50+ version of a Conti Terra Speed, then I'll fully agree.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Not any more...you may not have looked there lately: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/cx-gravel-reviews

The top is a "slick", and the next 4 are arguably not "treadless XC tires".

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

i'm riding schwalbe g-one bites. i have no trouble with that tire. and, btw, my gravel bike with those wheels weighs 18lb with pedals, with my behind-the-seat bag-o-tools and inflators. so, the bike isn't heavier. but my gravel is not everyone's gravel. my gravel tends to be 40 to 60 percent pavement and then 40 to 60 percent stuff where you'd arguably go faster if you were just on a XC mountain bike. so, i bridge up to MTB performance with a gravel bike that has those tires and gears.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Seems like it. I think the question we all probably face here...is how are we actually going to use this bike? Are we going KOM hunting off road. Or are we just getting away from it and want to be able to ride anything the trail throws at us? That sort of informs what you need for tires and for mount points.

I think it's pointed out perfectly here...two sets of wheels will probably be where we all end up, a set of 650b with really wide tires and 700 with 30 to 40s range. I know that's exactly what I want to do. More because I dont want to have to switch between say a dry pack trail and a wet muddy trail tire on the same rim. But the use case pointed out also makes sense for what I want to do as well.

I almost forgot to respond to this...with the help of these little puppies, and the adjustability range of my Magura HS33 Hydraulic mounts , I intend to prove your assertion incorrect ;-)


That said, since the bike I'm using that on has adequate clearance for 700x44C, I'm not really seeing a big incentive to also be able to run 650B.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

My usage is similar to yours...hence why my latest build has gearing arguably "MTB-low".

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

i'm writing to the guy who's asking to buy a new bike. it's much easier just to be the right tech to begin with.

as to your wheelsize + tire choice, this is the very last thing i would run on a bike, for wheel radius reasons (wheel axle out to the inflated tire). when you design a bike, you have to design it for a particular radius. shoe overlap, BB drop, steering geometry all assume that radius. chain stay as well, altho i don't find any downside to a long chain stay (say, 425mm or even 430mm). but i ride a lot of steep, rocky, rutty uphills, and this is a likely place where shoe overlap could bite you. if a bike assumes, say, a 32mm or 35mm tire on a 700c wheel, and you put that 44mm on there, it changes the steering and gives you a possible overlap problem. i likewise have a bike built for 700c, and i only have myself to blame for the fact that it handles GREAT with a 30mm road tire on it, and progressively less great as the tire gets larger, and larger, and larger.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Thanks, for getting back to me. When thinking of use case off course I didn't know the answer. So here is my attempt:

Terrain primarily fire trails which can in places have significant gravel and rocks.

longer day trips into the hills where predominantly dirt roads and 4wd terrain and on occasion stuff that would be better suited to a MTB.

I think I'm headed to touring and comfort, but I keep feeling the need to lean towards CX and racing.

Bike with two sets of wheels sounds like the way to go.

there is very little downside to a bike with the clearances i'm talking about. you can always ride skinner on a big-clearance bike. you can't rider fatter on a smaller-clearance bike.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Norco Search does the 650 for smaller frame sizes but their 700C models say they can take a 2.1" tire

I think 2.1 is the cutoff. Your gold if the bike can take this.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I raise you the Continental Speed King II in 650bx2.2" :)

I raise you the NS Rag+ (don't know why it says "coming soon" I've had mine for two years). 27.5x2.2"

https://www.norco.com/...uminum/search-xr-a2/

Norco spec that tire size on all models from this one up

That looks like a 38mm g one bite. I’m riding a 53mm size in 650b

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

You will have to forgive me lack of tech speak:

That looks like a 38mm g one bite.?

https://www.norco.com/...uminum/search-xr-a2/

Down in the geometry they spec max tire size

okay. here's what i see. yes, you can put a 650b on there, and you can spec it with that. but i have 2 concerns. first, i don't see that the spec changes to a larger tire size when you choose the 650b. second, what i think i see is that the largest tire you can put on that bike is a 47mm with a 650b. you can put a 2.1", which is 53mm, on a 26" wheel if you spec that. however, that's not a 650b. a 650b has a bead diameter of 584mm. a 700c is 622mm. a 26" mountain bike wheel is 559mm. that 559mm wheel is not the wheel the cool kids ride.

but maybe i'm still misreading.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

It is not an easy read.

Ah I see, if you get the 650 you can run the big tire otherwise its a max of 40. And thye don't offer 650 on anything but the smallest frame.

Giant and I think Trek offer up to 45 though

Some one has done the work though.

https://bikepacking.com/...x/650b-gravel-bikes/

The Diverge https://www.specialized.com/...?color=290949-175289

Claims to be able to fit 650 or 700 wheels

Yeah...but 2.2" is a bit bigger (56mm?) than the ~50-55mm Slowman mentioned, and probably only fits in hardtail MTBs...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

my gravel bike, the OPEN WI.DE, will take up to 57mm i believe. but this is tough, because gravel bikes run road crank and Q widths (150mm +/-). this is 25mm to 30mm narrower than MTB, and this is why it's hard to get gravel bikes to have enough tire clearance for 50+mm tires while also enough chain stay clearance on the outside to accept a road crank. for example, one thing my bike gives up is the capacity to run anything bigger than a 42t ring on a 1x rig, but that's fine, because i'm running a 42t now and i'm thinking of going down to a 40t as it is (this is what makes SRAM's 10t, 12sp, 10-50 a nice shift system).

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Yikes. That is MTB terrain in my book, but my MTB is still a hard tail.

This discussion has been interesting because people seem to have really different views on the use case for a gravel bike. I am lucky in that I live next to the foothills. If I turn right out of the driveway it is just technical single track (I.e., MTB). Go left and it is out to the plains. That is just gravel roads and mild smooth double track if you are out in the middle of nowhere. I suppose that is why the 650b option seemed necessary to me.

That specific spot, sure. But that patch was barely bigger than what you can see in the photograph; the vast majority of the gravel was reasonable. Some was even quite smooth stuff like this:



And roughly half of the 79 miles I rode that day were on paved roads.

Sorry dude, that's MTB terrain. I don't care if it's a "road".

That was a short patch of that stuff, barely longer than what you can see in the photograph. I wasn't saying that my whole rides are like that, I was saying that >40mm tires are handy for minimizing risk of equipment damage if you're sometimes rolling through patches like that.
I was not using that photo as an example of my "roads with chunky aggregate that aren't technical" comment.

Obviously if you have a ride that has surfaces like that representing a large fraction of the total distance, you're going to want some serious travel.

I think I'm might also be riding a "gravel bike of the future." I'm on a 2020 Salsa Warbird. Bought it with 700x42 wheels but just got a set of 650's. Currently running 47's but I think it can go up to 2.1 (53?). I haven't done it yet but I'm also putting 32's on the 700 wheels as my second setup.

it sounds to me like you are set. 2.54 x 2.1" = 53.34mm

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Completely agree. I have the GP Pro - it's awesome. I love this bike.

I just upgraded to the 2020 Pivot Vault from my Niner BSB (which technically is a CX bike), because I wanted to run wider tires. Based on the reviews, the Pivot seemed to check all of the boxes that I was looking for and had the type of handling I like. I've had no trouble riding 700x45s on it (they say max is 47, but you might go bigger on a 1x system. I did learn you want something like the GRX FD though for tire clearance. I've been running Panaracer Gravelking SKs 650x1.9 (measure at a little over 2) with plenty of clearance. The 650s at 2" are downright fun and much more confidence inspiring than 700x32s!

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"Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps"
Blog = http://extrememomentum.com|Photos = http://wheelgoodphotos.com

After owning, and selling a couple of CX bikes, I built my own Gravel bike

What I wanted: Titanium Frame, Clearance for big tires, large gear range

Frame is a 1991 Dynatec Titanium frame, which cost me $150
Groupset is Shimano GRX 800 40 tooth chainset with 11-46 cassette
Brakes are Avid Shorty Ultimate Cantilevers
Stem is Tune Titanium
Seat Post is Tune Titanium
Bars, Easton EC90 carbon 44cm
Wheels 26' DT Swiss Hugi
Tires Continental Gravel King 2.2
Weight 9.1kg (20 lb)
Saddle Selle Italia Titanium (135g)

The only new parts were the Groupset and brakes, rest was sourced from used market




Discs would have been nice, however, I can't believe how good the Avid Cantilevers are. One advantage is that they save around 1.5lb over discs. In the future, I may change the fork and have a 700c front wheel with disc brake

Bike is simply brilliant, rides nicely on road, with relatively low rolling resistance tires, according to bicyclerollingresistance.com these are the lowest resistance tires in their category. Geometry on the old MB frame is spot on. I love the way Titanium frames ride, especially on gravel, where it seems to have hit a sweet spot between compliance while being plenty stiff enough to drive power.

I've done a few gravel rides since the build, grabbed a bunch of gravel KOMs, and have no problem driving the pace when riding with friends, who are on modern CX or Gravel bikes

Would love to see more detailed pics of that fork.

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The 2.2 inch continental speed King has a lower rolling resistance than every "gravel" tire tested. (see link)

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...ng-ii-racesport-2015

In fact the lowest rolling resistance tire ever tested is the 2.35 inch schwalbe G-one speed. 10.8 watts setup tubeless is pretty damn good for floating on a cloud of a tire.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...chwalbe-big-one-2016

Wider, treadless tires roll faster on everything except a buffed out velodrome. They are more comfortable and give better grip too. Really no downsides to a wider tire for gravel. Maybe slight couple watt aero disadvantage, but I don't think your taint cares much about a 8 watt aero advantage rumbling at 25 MPH down a gravel road.

You are correct, I have the Race King, which is the second fastest Gravel Tire, the Speed King is indeed faster. As you also pointed out, double the RR of the best road tires, so losing 20W at 40kph as well as bucket load of Aero, I would guess at least another 20-30w. So even though mg Gravel bike may be nice on the road, I still need to push out 50w more to travel at 40kph (25mph). In reality I just ride a litlle slower, the Gravel bike is easy enough to ride at 32 kph (20mph), which is faster than most people ride their road bike

It's an Iconic UGLY fork that was original fit. Interestingly the Titanium fork that was fitted to the XTR spec bike is actually worth less now than the UGLY fork

I have been looking at a Trek Boone 5. Decent price à 40% off. Anyone have any thoughts about using it as a gravel bike and as a road bike with separate wheels? It says maximum 38 mm tires which kind of bums me out. I am running 40s on my current bike (Garneau aluminium gravel bike). I am thinking that a Boone 5 could be a decent upgrade from my aluminium gravel bike as well as my aluminium road bike. Cheers

CyclingTips did a mass review of gravel bikes that they further distilled into a longer-form thought exercise:

https://cyclingtips.com/...hoose-a-gravel-bike/

My Crockett has the same geometry and it rides very well on gravel, did a gravel century on it last week. I ride it all the time on road as well but haven't done any group rides as the 1x gearing is low. I'd expect the Boone to ride even better.

I have three friends who have damaged their Boone frames in cx races or practices. Two were warrantied, the third refused. Seat tube cracked on rough descents in two cases and seatstay cracked on the third when the wind sent a plastic stake against it. All cases were normal cx use that I expect any cx bike to stand up to, on that basis I wouldn't touch a Boone unless it was a huge bargain price.

https://www.statebicycle.com/...onoran-tan-650b-700c

I just bought this bike last month. Steel frame, lots of mounts. Baseprice is $800, but for $1150 it comes with 2 wheelsets. I love it. I swap out the wheels based on the route I'm planning on. My only complaint is the mechanical brakes, everything else is awesome. The 2 wheelset option was the main selling point for me.

Opinion on Salsa’s Warbird or Kona’s Libre for the PNW? Think Winthrop Fondo as an example purpose.

What led you to select the Warbird?

my gravel tends to be 40 to 60 percent pavement and then 40 to 60 percent stuff where you'd arguably go faster if you were just on a XC mountain bike. so, i bridge up to MTB performance with a gravel bike that has those tires and gears.

I live down the road twenty miles from you and it took me 18 months of experiments with various rigid, front suspension and now this before I decided I was at the sweet spot. Lots of flats in valley and steep climbs with lots of rocks, then pavement to Mountain High and down to Cajon Junction (or all the way to the top of Blue Ridge) and then dirt over Cleghorn road. People who say you don't need more than 40mm don't ride the San Bernardino Mountains.

In a similar boat (PNW) and considering a gravel bike I can take on some sketchier trails when I want to under bike and have fun.

I am strongly considering the BMC Urs or the Rodeo Labs Trail donkey.

I tried the Evil Chamois Hagar and that was miserable to ride. It was unstable when slow and climbing and just understeered like crazy.

The TD with a dropper and 650bs may be my dream set up. I am purposely looking into more mountain focused gravel bikes and avoiding the road
Bikes that can handle dirt segment.

I see you have a Thunder Burt up front. I love these tires, I wish Schwalbe would make them in a 40 or 42 also. The 2.1s are great, but for more tame stuff and pavement, a skinnier version would be great.

Looks really good, except they are not offering my size. At that price you could even do a hydraulic brake upgrade

I'd be leaning towards the Warbird for a few reasons, but if I were designing it I'd knock back the fork rake by 5mm.

What I like about the Warbird:
* Tire clearance. Not that you have to use it, but it's nice to have the option to go with big meats. I've found myself gravitating to larger and larger tires over the years.
* Longer front center. Though it'd shorten up a little by going with the 45mm rake fork, as is it stretches out, and I like that.

But what matters most is if it ticks all of your boxes and feels good to you.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

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http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

 
"It mostly is determined by what "gravel" means where you ride. In the PNW Cascades, it usually means a lot of up and down, not a lot of flat, and rocks the size of baseballs half-buried in the till."

This!

What is the "gravel" like where you live and ride the most? For me locally here in Southern Ontario it's reasonably good to very good gravel/dirt roads and rail trails, which quite frankly are often in better shape than the paved roads! Rolling to flat terrain.

A "gravel" ride for me is linking up sectors of gravel with riding on paved roads. On Tues this week, I rode 100km - 50km on pavement and 50 on a rail trail. I did this on my road bike and it was fine. Yes - I may have been able to go a bit faster on the gravel on the rail trail, with a gravel bike with bigger tires (on was on 700 x 25) but I was still moving along at 28 - 30km/h.

This was to have been New Bike Year for me (Covid-19 and a wipeout of work and income has pushed that down the road a bit!!), and the bikes I was looking at were true All Rounders like the 3T Exploro, or Cervelo Aspero or even a "road bike" that you could put some wider tires on - 3T Strada or the just released Cervelo Caledonia.

Any of the above would cover 100% of my needs on "gravel" and be able to keep up with the bunch on our Thursday Night Club "World Championships" ride with a change of wheels and tires, or not!

When I see some of these "gravel bikes" on the market, I keep wondering, when have we reached the tipping point to what is a MTB?

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

i'll throw in my own 2 cents - just don't take it as worth more than that.
one year of riding gravel bike and mid-atlantic gravel roads and blue ridge gravel climbs:
i set the bike up according to what i like riding the most:
i don't love super chunky descents, but i do really like rolling up/down gravel/mostly hard packed dirt combo.
thus i don't sweat having to slow down on longer descents and patches with really big rocks. a set up closer to an mtb would prob handle that better, but i enjoy the slightly greater speed of 38 width tires and not crazy long wheelbase.

as i learn more and more gravel roads - i pick what i enjoy riding the most and mostly match the set up to that.

i don't think there is really one set up to do it all, so i just set the bike up for the stuff i like the best (and ideally which i encounter the most). as a strava junkie - i'd love to contest some really cool rolling segments - but those records are all set on a road bike. i've learned to check the my results tab and enjoy the almost zero traffic these roads afford me. if i had to do it again (i have a diverge), i'd get a slightly more road bike leaning gravel bike - but lighter wheels and more versatile tires are close enough for me (i have a second set of heavier wheels w/ fatter slower tires for colder weather/slower riding).
enjoy the ride!

not an obvious choice for a gravel bike but I'm considering getting a Trek Domane SL6. It will take up to 38mm tires. I wouldn't have this
bike as my one and only gravel bike though.

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again.

I ride the Domane SLR and it's a do it all and do it all well bike. Tomorrow is the DAMn (244 miles of gravel across Minnesota). 40mm measuring tires...no problem.

It's fast on the road, fast on the gravel. The only time it's maybe...maybe insufficient is on horrible stuff with huge rocks. I'd say a course like DK it's ok, but I'd maybe prefer a slightly bigger tire and 42 is getting too tight with any side lug. It's a glorious bullet bike. But it's a glorious gravel grinder :)

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24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
Insta: chris.s.apex

My wife has the current Domane in SL5 trim. I recently mounted 40 mm gravel tires on it and there was plenty of room for a wider tire, so I did a test fit of the wheels from my gravel bike with 45 mm tires (actual measured width of 44 mm). Those fit fine as well, although a little tight by the chain stays. But I wouldn't hesitate to run 40mm+ tires on the Domane.

Only downside is I think the gearing will be a little tough for climbing for her. 50/34 chain ring against 11-34 cassette. I need to figure out a compatible 46/30 crankset and/or a way to make a MTB cassette with maybe a 40t work. I think the latter would involve changing the rear derailleur.

Maybe. I have multiple friends running 11-42 cassettes and 16-tooth front differences with Shimano road GS derailleurs. Might end up needing a hanger extender, and you're definitely going to run out of wrap (i.e. chain will go slack in the small-small part of the gear range if you size your chain Shimano-style), but it can be made to more or less work.

Obviously that comes at the expensive of tight spacing, though, if that's an issue. I do like the idea of smaller chainrings.

I have a Roubaix which is limited to 32 mm :(

Anyhow comparing these two against the Spec roubaix:

Which one, accounting for the fact a lot of the height in the Roubaix is the future shock?

https://geometrygeeks.bike/...kes-bend-r5-2021-54/

Bottom Bracket on the current Domane is a T47 which should take just about any road crank, assuming you have the right bearings.

The easy-button options (no need to change anything other than the crank):

-Miche Graff
-Rotor Aldhu 24

Both are available with 46/30 chainrings, and both are build around 24mm spindles. EIther should be a direct swap for any Shimano road crank.

FSA has several crank models which can be had with 46/30 chainrings, but all would require new bearings.

Shimano GRX cranks would fit the existing bearings, but you'd likely have to replace the front derailleur with a GRX fd to accommodate the different chainline. This option would give you more FD clearance for the rear tire, although I'm not sure if that's an issue.

At the other end of the bike, a GRX-812/M-8000SGS Frankenderailleur (M8000SGS cage on the GRX812) should clear an 11-42 cassette without a roadlink, have enough chainwrap to not have to worry about an accidental big/big crosschain, and actually have the proper travel angle to maintain decent b-gaps on the smaller cogs (which is a shortcoming of using a GS road rear derailleur with an 11-40 or 11-42 cassette).




I think the hybrid Conduct system has been retired for 2021. Haven't seen a bike with the system in their 2021 collection yet. That's good for some models, maybe not so good for others. The 2021 Revolt Advanced 3 now has GRX400 brifters with native hydraulic braking which would almost universally be seen an improvement. The 2021 alloy Revolt has mechanical Tektro 550 calipers, which is probably a step down from the Conduct system that was on the 2020.

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Currently running GravelKing SK 38s on an OG Diverge Pro Carbon. It's been a great bike, but I'm giving serious thought to a custom frame and a Rohloff/Gates Belt Drive combo next time around with clearance for far wider tires. As others have said, the new Diverges are awesome bikes and with two wheel sets, you'd be able to do just about anything with one of those.

Here's my Diverge as it stands now (DA 11 speed, S-Works crank).

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Thanks for the detailed response - greatly appreciated. It never even occurred to me to look at the GRX components. I'm going to start with the GRX 46/30 and GRX front derailleur. That'll reduce her from best hill climbing ratio from around 1.0 to 0.9, which I'm hoping will be enough for our local hills.

If that isn't enough, I'll go with the GRX / XT combo you suggested along with a 42t cassette (0.74 ratio), and obviously check chain length. Thanks again!

Anyone with experience riding a Fuji Jari Carbon bikes?

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Formerly DrD

I’ve been looking for a gravel bike with stack/reach comparable with my Roubaix and somehow overlooked the Diverge as I chased the boutique brands flooding this segment of the market. On paper, the Diverge is just what I am looking for.....fits me, 650b/700c compatible, monster tire clearance, and GRX 2x11 drivetrain. The little extras like the shock absorbing stem and in-frame storage are like icing on the cake. Feels I found my next bike!

Gravel bikes are an interesting space... the whole larger tire size and 650b thing is a well worn path that XC racing has settled—29 is simply faster. Lots of back and forth but in the end it has been proven time and again. Benchmarks and rolling resistance, watts, and tests... in the end in XC races the niner simply pulls ahead...

This knowledge combined with my own racing experience puts me in a tough spot. I like my crux with 38 g-ones and it has put me in relatively competitive position in races like the Queens Stage/RPI... but I also race an Epic for marathon XC. My Epic full suspension with a 36T or 38T, 10-50 eagle and a set of thunderburts absolutely flies as a gravel rig. If we are on normal gravel roads it holds on, as soon as it gets chunky or points downhill it leaves the Crux behind. Yes even with the gearing shortage—an MTB tuck with a dropper has more control at speed than the Crux...

All of this is to say that for anything that I want more capability than my Crux w/38s and 48/10-42 gears provides it is my experience that an XC bike is simply better in pretty much every measure. Many Strava PRs/KOM attempts on both bikes bear it out. And my Epic is a solid 7lbs heavier than the Crux... if I had a full rigid XC build I can only imagine the need for the Crux would be even smaller....

If I could have a perfect gravel rig it would be a rigid XC bike with a 2x ... probably 42/32ish and a 10-40 or so cassette. I find the flat bars comfortable (I mean I can race that way for 100miles so...) but I wouldn’t mind some experiments with other options. At this point I guess it’s a wait and see thing as there isn’t anything quite right out there that I have found...

Using fat 650b on a "700c" gravel bike isn't about being competitive against MTBs on technical stuff. It's about increase tolerance to chunky surfaces while maintaining a geometry and handling character somewhat in line with traditional road bikes, including fit considerations like q-factor. (Compared to a bicycle with suspension, it's obviously also more elegant, less stuff to maintain. But that's arguably a separate discussion.)

If you're desperate, you could have something done custom. If you're looking for technical handling chops on a rigid without giving up a reasonably speedy non-technical posture, would something very forward like a Peter Verdone geometry make sense?

I have a friend who's been using a Diverge Comp for PNW graveling since around the start of 2019. He's currently got the configuration mostly-stock-ish, besides switching to a bigger cassette. Seems to ride great for him.

The one notable quirk I saw was when he threw his chain to the inside. The space between the inner chainring and the frame was about the width of a chain and had a very gradual taper, so the chain wedged in there hard. It took a pretty forceful tug to dislodge it. I don't know if that's a size-specific issue or if they've fixed it in the newer model, but I'd certainly recommend avoiding throwing the chain off the inside. :)

This is great advice that I've failed to heed on several, painful, occasions.

How much clearance do you have running 38's?? I have the original Diverge, too. Max tire clearance supposedly 33?

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Colorado Triathlon Company, CO2UT 2021, Crooked Gravel 2022, Steamboat Gravel 2022

I think you are mostly right on this. Considering how light race hardtails have gotten, assuming you can afford to have multiple bikes, in cases where you want to go bigger than about 38mm on a cross/gravel bike, you are probably better off on a light 29er hardtail. I also agree with the rigid 2X cross country option (but again as a second, or even third bike) possibly being best for gnarly gravel, but then you are really just into is 1.5-2 pounds of weight for suspension worth the tradeoff (if it is truly rough terrain) of using the rigid instead of just using a light race hardtail? And even some of the high end trail bikes (buddy just got an S-works trail bike) are so ridiculously light, its almost like that is the best one bike option.

But then you are back to the Swiss Army knife question, if you can only have one bike, the best option (in one bike space) is a second 650B wheelset to allow running wider tires on the gravel bike. I say this because in general a gravel bike is always going to be cheaper than a race hard tail or very light dual suspension trail bike.

The only right answer is more bikes (and more wheelsets). I need a huge stable of legos to construct the perfect rig for any given event.

Not a huge amount, but it works. No frame rub happening at all that I can see; I'd probably go down to 35 if I were changing them again though (but definitely stay tubeless). I've only done about 120km over 2 rides so far with it set up this way, and it's been fine. I'd def recommend a second wheel set with road tires on though. I'm in the process of grudgingly pricing out an SCS spare set right now.

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I certainly can relate to that ... the “simplicity” of 1x setups? I have 4 different chainrings with two separate chains that I use on my race XC bike depending on the course... and 3 different rings for the Crux along with a couple different wheelsets (race/training).

My bike stable currently has 5 steeds but that is only because I am down one waiting on a new Tarmac... For all those reading along you can probably tell already I have a unique and possibly not relatable approach here with all these different configurations and my tendency to run huge gears (48T gravel is pretty uncommon but I can power it and I love to hammer downhill too).

My experience with Gravel bikes lately is that their prices have been going up with their status as the current hotness... that is actually part of the reason I bought the Crux, better value than the Diverge. In addition the brand new Orbea Alma M30 XC race hardtail is only $2500 msrp plus another $500 for that rigid suspension corrected fork to be able to run both ways... and it is seriously light weight too. Downside is it only supports a 34t ring in 1x or a 38t when setup as a 2x system.

I totally agree that the XC bike bleeds pretty far into gravel bike territory, depending on the terrain. The XC bike can ride anywhere the gravel bike can go, and comfortably so. Not always true the other way around.

That being said, I still enjoy taking my gravel bike out on the somewhat chunky gravel roads near me. I have an XC bike that weighs less than 23 lbs and is far more comfortable on gravel roads than my gravel bike, but I enjoy the challenge and experience of not being over-biked on my gravel bike.

Indeed... looking at the fleet when planning to head out on a big loop... the gravel option seems to come out on top more often that the others of late because it is just so much fun to ride. Some times the fat bike with the jumbo Jim’s comes out in the summer for the same reason; it’s just an all around good time and a fun day on a bike.

went Jamis renegade as geometry works for me

Picked up a demo Exploro frame for a decent price and will build it with Campy Potenza because I am a died in the wool aero weenie, I am always looking for a deal, I like components that last forever and it will be different from everybody else’s bike.