https://www.statebicycle.com/...onoran-tan-650b-700c

I just bought this bike last month. Steel frame, lots of mounts. Baseprice is $800, but for $1150 it comes with 2 wheelsets. I love it. I swap out the wheels based on the route I'm planning on. My only complaint is the mechanical brakes, everything else is awesome. The 2 wheelset option was the main selling point for me.

Opinion on Salsa’s Warbird or Kona’s Libre for the PNW? Think Winthrop Fondo as an example purpose.

What led you to select the Warbird?

my gravel tends to be 40 to 60 percent pavement and then 40 to 60 percent stuff where you'd arguably go faster if you were just on a XC mountain bike. so, i bridge up to MTB performance with a gravel bike that has those tires and gears.

I live down the road twenty miles from you and it took me 18 months of experiments with various rigid, front suspension and now this before I decided I was at the sweet spot. Lots of flats in valley and steep climbs with lots of rocks, then pavement to Mountain High and down to Cajon Junction (or all the way to the top of Blue Ridge) and then dirt over Cleghorn road. People who say you don't need more than 40mm don't ride the San Bernardino Mountains.

In a similar boat (PNW) and considering a gravel bike I can take on some sketchier trails when I want to under bike and have fun.

I am strongly considering the BMC Urs or the Rodeo Labs Trail donkey.

I tried the Evil Chamois Hagar and that was miserable to ride. It was unstable when slow and climbing and just understeered like crazy.

The TD with a dropper and 650bs may be my dream set up. I am purposely looking into more mountain focused gravel bikes and avoiding the road
Bikes that can handle dirt segment.

I see you have a Thunder Burt up front. I love these tires, I wish Schwalbe would make them in a 40 or 42 also. The 2.1s are great, but for more tame stuff and pavement, a skinnier version would be great.

Looks really good, except they are not offering my size. At that price you could even do a hydraulic brake upgrade

I'd be leaning towards the Warbird for a few reasons, but if I were designing it I'd knock back the fork rake by 5mm.

What I like about the Warbird:
* Tire clearance. Not that you have to use it, but it's nice to have the option to go with big meats. I've found myself gravitating to larger and larger tires over the years.
* Longer front center. Though it'd shorten up a little by going with the 45mm rake fork, as is it stretches out, and I like that.

But what matters most is if it ticks all of your boxes and feels good to you.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

 
"It mostly is determined by what "gravel" means where you ride. In the PNW Cascades, it usually means a lot of up and down, not a lot of flat, and rocks the size of baseballs half-buried in the till."

This!

What is the "gravel" like where you live and ride the most? For me locally here in Southern Ontario it's reasonably good to very good gravel/dirt roads and rail trails, which quite frankly are often in better shape than the paved roads! Rolling to flat terrain.

A "gravel" ride for me is linking up sectors of gravel with riding on paved roads. On Tues this week, I rode 100km - 50km on pavement and 50 on a rail trail. I did this on my road bike and it was fine. Yes - I may have been able to go a bit faster on the gravel on the rail trail, with a gravel bike with bigger tires (on was on 700 x 25) but I was still moving along at 28 - 30km/h.

This was to have been New Bike Year for me (Covid-19 and a wipeout of work and income has pushed that down the road a bit!!), and the bikes I was looking at were true All Rounders like the 3T Exploro, or Cervelo Aspero or even a "road bike" that you could put some wider tires on - 3T Strada or the just released Cervelo Caledonia.

Any of the above would cover 100% of my needs on "gravel" and be able to keep up with the bunch on our Thursday Night Club "World Championships" ride with a change of wheels and tires, or not!

When I see some of these "gravel bikes" on the market, I keep wondering, when have we reached the tipping point to what is a MTB?

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

i'll throw in my own 2 cents - just don't take it as worth more than that.
one year of riding gravel bike and mid-atlantic gravel roads and blue ridge gravel climbs:
i set the bike up according to what i like riding the most:
i don't love super chunky descents, but i do really like rolling up/down gravel/mostly hard packed dirt combo.
thus i don't sweat having to slow down on longer descents and patches with really big rocks. a set up closer to an mtb would prob handle that better, but i enjoy the slightly greater speed of 38 width tires and not crazy long wheelbase.

as i learn more and more gravel roads - i pick what i enjoy riding the most and mostly match the set up to that.

i don't think there is really one set up to do it all, so i just set the bike up for the stuff i like the best (and ideally which i encounter the most). as a strava junkie - i'd love to contest some really cool rolling segments - but those records are all set on a road bike. i've learned to check the my results tab and enjoy the almost zero traffic these roads afford me. if i had to do it again (i have a diverge), i'd get a slightly more road bike leaning gravel bike - but lighter wheels and more versatile tires are close enough for me (i have a second set of heavier wheels w/ fatter slower tires for colder weather/slower riding).
enjoy the ride!

not an obvious choice for a gravel bike but I'm considering getting a Trek Domane SL6. It will take up to 38mm tires. I wouldn't have this
bike as my one and only gravel bike though.

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again.

I ride the Domane SLR and it's a do it all and do it all well bike. Tomorrow is the DAMn (244 miles of gravel across Minnesota). 40mm measuring tires...no problem.

It's fast on the road, fast on the gravel. The only time it's maybe...maybe insufficient is on horrible stuff with huge rocks. I'd say a course like DK it's ok, but I'd maybe prefer a slightly bigger tire and 42 is getting too tight with any side lug. It's a glorious bullet bike. But it's a glorious gravel grinder :)

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24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
Insta: chris.s.apex

My wife has the current Domane in SL5 trim. I recently mounted 40 mm gravel tires on it and there was plenty of room for a wider tire, so I did a test fit of the wheels from my gravel bike with 45 mm tires (actual measured width of 44 mm). Those fit fine as well, although a little tight by the chain stays. But I wouldn't hesitate to run 40mm+ tires on the Domane.

Only downside is I think the gearing will be a little tough for climbing for her. 50/34 chain ring against 11-34 cassette. I need to figure out a compatible 46/30 crankset and/or a way to make a MTB cassette with maybe a 40t work. I think the latter would involve changing the rear derailleur.

Maybe. I have multiple friends running 11-42 cassettes and 16-tooth front differences with Shimano road GS derailleurs. Might end up needing a hanger extender, and you're definitely going to run out of wrap (i.e. chain will go slack in the small-small part of the gear range if you size your chain Shimano-style), but it can be made to more or less work.

Obviously that comes at the expensive of tight spacing, though, if that's an issue. I do like the idea of smaller chainrings.

I have a Roubaix which is limited to 32 mm :(

Anyhow comparing these two against the Spec roubaix:

Which one, accounting for the fact a lot of the height in the Roubaix is the future shock?

https://geometrygeeks.bike/...kes-bend-r5-2021-54/

Bottom Bracket on the current Domane is a T47 which should take just about any road crank, assuming you have the right bearings.

The easy-button options (no need to change anything other than the crank):

-Miche Graff
-Rotor Aldhu 24

Both are available with 46/30 chainrings, and both are build around 24mm spindles. EIther should be a direct swap for any Shimano road crank.

FSA has several crank models which can be had with 46/30 chainrings, but all would require new bearings.

Shimano GRX cranks would fit the existing bearings, but you'd likely have to replace the front derailleur with a GRX fd to accommodate the different chainline. This option would give you more FD clearance for the rear tire, although I'm not sure if that's an issue.

At the other end of the bike, a GRX-812/M-8000SGS Frankenderailleur (M8000SGS cage on the GRX812) should clear an 11-42 cassette without a roadlink, have enough chainwrap to not have to worry about an accidental big/big crosschain, and actually have the proper travel angle to maintain decent b-gaps on the smaller cogs (which is a shortcoming of using a GS road rear derailleur with an 11-40 or 11-42 cassette).




I think the hybrid Conduct system has been retired for 2021. Haven't seen a bike with the system in their 2021 collection yet. That's good for some models, maybe not so good for others. The 2021 Revolt Advanced 3 now has GRX400 brifters with native hydraulic braking which would almost universally be seen an improvement. The 2021 alloy Revolt has mechanical Tektro 550 calipers, which is probably a step down from the Conduct system that was on the 2020.

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Currently running GravelKing SK 38s on an OG Diverge Pro Carbon. It's been a great bike, but I'm giving serious thought to a custom frame and a Rohloff/Gates Belt Drive combo next time around with clearance for far wider tires. As others have said, the new Diverges are awesome bikes and with two wheel sets, you'd be able to do just about anything with one of those.

Here's my Diverge as it stands now (DA 11 speed, S-Works crank).

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Thanks for the detailed response - greatly appreciated. It never even occurred to me to look at the GRX components. I'm going to start with the GRX 46/30 and GRX front derailleur. That'll reduce her from best hill climbing ratio from around 1.0 to 0.9, which I'm hoping will be enough for our local hills.

If that isn't enough, I'll go with the GRX / XT combo you suggested along with a 42t cassette (0.74 ratio), and obviously check chain length. Thanks again!

Anyone with experience riding a Fuji Jari Carbon bikes?

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Formerly DrD

I’ve been looking for a gravel bike with stack/reach comparable with my Roubaix and somehow overlooked the Diverge as I chased the boutique brands flooding this segment of the market. On paper, the Diverge is just what I am looking for.....fits me, 650b/700c compatible, monster tire clearance, and GRX 2x11 drivetrain. The little extras like the shock absorbing stem and in-frame storage are like icing on the cake. Feels I found my next bike!

Gravel bikes are an interesting space... the whole larger tire size and 650b thing is a well worn path that XC racing has settled—29 is simply faster. Lots of back and forth but in the end it has been proven time and again. Benchmarks and rolling resistance, watts, and tests... in the end in XC races the niner simply pulls ahead...

This knowledge combined with my own racing experience puts me in a tough spot. I like my crux with 38 g-ones and it has put me in relatively competitive position in races like the Queens Stage/RPI... but I also race an Epic for marathon XC. My Epic full suspension with a 36T or 38T, 10-50 eagle and a set of thunderburts absolutely flies as a gravel rig. If we are on normal gravel roads it holds on, as soon as it gets chunky or points downhill it leaves the Crux behind. Yes even with the gearing shortage—an MTB tuck with a dropper has more control at speed than the Crux...

All of this is to say that for anything that I want more capability than my Crux w/38s and 48/10-42 gears provides it is my experience that an XC bike is simply better in pretty much every measure. Many Strava PRs/KOM attempts on both bikes bear it out. And my Epic is a solid 7lbs heavier than the Crux... if I had a full rigid XC build I can only imagine the need for the Crux would be even smaller....

If I could have a perfect gravel rig it would be a rigid XC bike with a 2x ... probably 42/32ish and a 10-40 or so cassette. I find the flat bars comfortable (I mean I can race that way for 100miles so...) but I wouldn’t mind some experiments with other options. At this point I guess it’s a wait and see thing as there isn’t anything quite right out there that I have found...

Using fat 650b on a "700c" gravel bike isn't about being competitive against MTBs on technical stuff. It's about increase tolerance to chunky surfaces while maintaining a geometry and handling character somewhat in line with traditional road bikes, including fit considerations like q-factor. (Compared to a bicycle with suspension, it's obviously also more elegant, less stuff to maintain. But that's arguably a separate discussion.)

If you're desperate, you could have something done custom. If you're looking for technical handling chops on a rigid without giving up a reasonably speedy non-technical posture, would something very forward like a Peter Verdone geometry make sense?

I have a friend who's been using a Diverge Comp for PNW graveling since around the start of 2019. He's currently got the configuration mostly-stock-ish, besides switching to a bigger cassette. Seems to ride great for him.

The one notable quirk I saw was when he threw his chain to the inside. The space between the inner chainring and the frame was about the width of a chain and had a very gradual taper, so the chain wedged in there hard. It took a pretty forceful tug to dislodge it. I don't know if that's a size-specific issue or if they've fixed it in the newer model, but I'd certainly recommend avoiding throwing the chain off the inside. :)

This is great advice that I've failed to heed on several, painful, occasions.

How much clearance do you have running 38's?? I have the original Diverge, too. Max tire clearance supposedly 33?

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Colorado Triathlon Company, CO2UT 2021, Crooked Gravel 2022, Steamboat Gravel 2022

I think you are mostly right on this. Considering how light race hardtails have gotten, assuming you can afford to have multiple bikes, in cases where you want to go bigger than about 38mm on a cross/gravel bike, you are probably better off on a light 29er hardtail. I also agree with the rigid 2X cross country option (but again as a second, or even third bike) possibly being best for gnarly gravel, but then you are really just into is 1.5-2 pounds of weight for suspension worth the tradeoff (if it is truly rough terrain) of using the rigid instead of just using a light race hardtail? And even some of the high end trail bikes (buddy just got an S-works trail bike) are so ridiculously light, its almost like that is the best one bike option.

But then you are back to the Swiss Army knife question, if you can only have one bike, the best option (in one bike space) is a second 650B wheelset to allow running wider tires on the gravel bike. I say this because in general a gravel bike is always going to be cheaper than a race hard tail or very light dual suspension trail bike.

The only right answer is more bikes (and more wheelsets). I need a huge stable of legos to construct the perfect rig for any given event.