More info required:


What are you doing during your 5-6 hours of riding? shouldn't that be just your long ride for an IM?
How much of that is spent at or just under 180 watts?
How much of that is spent over 180 watts?

Plenty of threads on here about how to increase FTP..

I'd make sure you have proper expectations for an IM race. Your only riding 5-6 hours a week for IM training when your IM bike leg is going to take you that long in one go. How many rides are you doing a week and thus how long is the longest ride you are doing? All I'd suggest is to continue following whatever plan you are following. You could make some improvements but imo you're undertrained for an IM bike leg if your only riding 5-6 hrs a week, I'd be curious what limitations are keeping you from that low of a riding priority.

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Don't worry about you FTP; focus on your endurance (i.e. upping what % of your FTP you can ride the 180km at). At that training volume, you need to be really realistic about what kind of watts you can push on the bike (probably 110ish) and still be able to run.

A couple of questions:

-What is your longest ride? (one issue is if it is long enough that you can validate your nutrition strategy).

-How much do you weigh? (I have a friend who's gone to WC twice on 200W FTP....but she weighs nothing).

-Do you have the schedule ability to add longer rides in over the next four weeks?

-What are your volumes in the other sports? (If you're an experienced ultra runner logging 130mpw then you might be fine with that bike volume).

---

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Sorry.

Roughly I have 3 to 4 hours of 130-140 heart rate.

Then I do 20mins high interval training

I try to do one hour above what I think I can achieve

I've only just got the power metre. So I am not sure

Apologies. Half Ironman.... Not Ironman 😂

can you hold 110 for 8 hours?

This is something I really!! Struggle with. Longest ride atm is 2 hours, I'll be doing 3 on Sunday, going up to 4 hours in 4 weeks time

110w OK 😢 it is what it is. I underestimated how long it would take to learn to ride

78kg weight. Nothing I do atm will help me lose weight. Quite chubby at 178cm

Fuellling is a problem.

Running up to 4 hours a week. Miles about 40k ish a week. No where near 110 haha

I'm scaling up to 14 hours a week as speak. My 8 week programme takes me from 8 hours training to 14

I work 50, sleep 50, mba 10, travel 12. Leaving me not much time haha.

Wife getting pregnant through a spanner Inn training more 8 weeks ago.... Excuses I know. I am trying

Lol 8 hours... Longest ride ever is 4 hours 😂😂😂

Fuelling... I don't understand.

Just been told a doing an ftp test at 4pm while only having 2 coffees and a pie at 12 is not good.

So what am I meant to eat?

I barely eat during the day. I never eat during exercise. I do have post meal work outs and this week started having up and go's for pre workout

70.3 is a whole different story. A four hour ride should get you ready; make sure to practice your race fueling/hydration.

Since it’s a 70.3, you can go a bit higher on the wattage (125ish). Resist the temptation to do 140-150 in the first hour (it will feel easy) and then end up paying for it on the run.

For the run, make sure you can run 10-13mi (16-21km) without feeling totally wiped out after.

---

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Yeah, run I'm sweet. I did a 60km in 2 hour session and ran 10k in 60mins after. So I'm getting more and more confident on that.

I'm not a fast runner by any means. I reckon I'll do 2:05 for the run

I was kinda hoping for 3:10 on bike.

Happy to pivot again. From a 5 hour to a 6 hour to a 7 hour half time hahahaha

That's good pacing advice.

I really think you owe it to everyone to provide links to some of your previous threads requesting advice for cycling and preparing for this race so they can make an informed decision about how to spend their time.

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...0.3_Target_P6912249/

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...e_P6921718/#p6921718

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...for_Zone_2_P6933283/

The short version, from what I can remember, is that you did a Taupo 70.3 2018 in about 7.5hrs and started a thread saying you were going to do it in under 5hrs this year or die trying. Pretty much everyone on that thread urged you to be more realistic, and many questioned whether you were trolling or delusional.
You continued to insist there was a "trick" to easy gains that would be your ticket to astonishing improvement. You said a 6hr 70.3 wasn't worth doing and insisted you'd do sub 5hrs or die trying. Most of us told you this was silly macho nonsense that showed no respect for athletes much better than yourself and that it would not help you improve - you continued with the silliness.

You seem to be constantly looking for a shortcut to improved performance, like sitting in a sauna INSTEAD of training, and finding the "trick" to cycling. We told you the main trick is to do plenty of cycling but you weren't convinced and insisted there was another special trick out there which you would discover.

You also claimed lots of inconsistent paces and abilities which just made no sense. For example you said the maximum speed you were physically capable of reaching on the bike was 35km/h but that you could ride at 33km/h for hours, or something to that effect.

Most of this was back around April/May this year.
Now you're back saying that your FTP is 180 and you want to improve it before the race in 6 weeks. Your longest rides are currently 2hrs and you are going to double that in the next 4 weeks. That's leaving it rather late to add volume!

You don't seem to have taken any of the previous advice you've received on this forum. That's allowed, but do really think you're going to get a different answer this time?

I do hope you've abandoned the idea that you're willing to die trying. Just keep training, and add volume. Don't worry too much about your FTP at this point. It won't matter much if you add a few watts to that before the race if you haven't the endurance to use it. Get some longer rides in as a priority. And aim to do that now, not in 4 weeks.

Looks like you still enjoy wasting time rather than answering questions. Glad you get value in your life

And dude. For the last fooking time.

I spent 3 to 4 hours in the gym. I spend 20 mins in the sauna... After

My question was if this was adding to my fitness.

Looks like it does.... I just didn't see the point of bragging that I was right

Your questions have been answered repeatedly.
And I didn't say responding was a waste of time. I said people should have some background before deciding how to spend their time. I'm not aware of any answers that still require answering, and repeating previous answers seems like the greater waste of time. If you've mislaid previous answers, the links in my previous post will bring you back there. So really I'm answering your questions in the most time efficient way possible, for myself, and everyone else here. No?

Also, since I'm currently in work and being rather well paid for another half hour before heading home for a bank holiday long weekend, and this is keeping me amused, I don't consider this a waste of time or a loss of value. ;)

You know what annoys the shit out of me the most with these sort of comments.

When I asked for help. No one said... Oh BTW ensure your doing 4hour plus cycles x number of weeks out from the event.

I cross referred three Ironman 70.3 plans. The long rides were not over 2 hours before the final 8 weeks on 2 and 12 weeks on the other.

I did exactly what everyone said. I rode as much as I could and it did fucking nothing... Absolutely bullshit that just getting on ur cycle works.

Specific sessions and diet have worked a lot more. I moved from 28 to 30kph just from eating before I rode.... See... Simple shit u probably knew but I did not.

It's not about fucking shortcuts. Its about trying to figure out what you seasoned pros do!!!

Like. Is 6 hours still not enough? Why? Is it just base building or should I be HIIT training... Primal endurance book says only HIIT train every other week or similar

Do u eat before? After? How do u recover? At the moment, I can't walk the next day.

I do not understand what muscles and what type of muscles are required for cycling. I do not still understand how to get better and I am NOT better after 1k of riding.

I mean if its just how it is..... Sorry Mikey. The muscle density required for cycling taking years of base building. Then sweet as. But all u say is.... Cycle more. Be realistic. Fluffy.

Yes I wanted 4:59:59. Then I wanted 5:59:59. Now I'm just going to have fun, since it doesn't matter how fast I can run and swim and yes.... I have no interest in a plus 6hr 70.3...This fucking bike shit is bollox and I can't find anyone to tell me why.

And no. I'm still willing to die. I've passed out twice while training. Thrown up a few times. Not getting enough sleep and train too much. Constantly in fucking pain and find recovering annoying as fuck. I would sleep less if it would help but it won't. I literally can't train more as I can't recover and sessions can't be much longer as it's all finely balanced with everything else

Monday 2.75 hours
Tuesday 1 hour
Wednesday 2.5 hours
Thursday 1.5 hours
Friday 0
Sat 1-2 hours
Sun 2-4 hours

I can not do more than this

Also I took EVERY PEICE OF ADVICE ON. TRAINING. I even followed and evaluated Duncans training on strava and duplicated a heap of zone 2 training the last 4 months

You may have to explain where that bragging would come into play?
I've provided a link above to that Sauna thread. I'll let others decide for themselves.

Truely, I hope your race goes well, and I hope that you enjoy it. But I hope even more sincerely that you can come to terms with reality and appreciate that too. I suspect your approach is frustrating you and robbing you of a lot of enjoyment in this sport.

I only get enjoyment with getting close but not obtaining a goal.

A goal of 4:59:59 and getting 5:20 would have left me is a state of joy for months and made the last 5 months worth while

Ok, I see you are a wee bit frustrated!

I'm not trying to add to that. I have in that first thread tried to make useful suggestions as did others. If you're constantly in pain, passing out, and not getting enough sleep, then I reckon you're overdoing it, which is probably worse than under-training.

You're doing enough hours of training that I would expect you to be making big gains unless you were already in terrific shape. But that assumes the right use of that time.

I'm a passable runner and swimmer but not good enough to give you advice. I'm respectable on the bike. I told you before what I've done. You should not be passing out. You're training for endurance, not maximum sprint efforts. I've seem video of Chris Hoy falling off his trainer at the end of very short maximal power efforts but that's a different type of training for an utterly different discipline. You should be doing most of your bike training at a sustainable, relatively comfortable pace (comfortable breathing at least - after a couple of hours your legs may not be comfortable). If your FTP is 180W then I'd expect you should be able to do a 3 or 4 hour ride at 120-125W without being too distressed and without any particular pain afterwards. In addition to that long ride, I'd do at least another two sessions of say 60-80mins each where you spend a good chunk of that doing 160-180W in blocks at least 10mins long. The classic session is 2x20min intervals at close to FTP with a 4 to 10min recovery between the 2. Add in a warm up and cool down and that's a bit over an hour on the bike. However, if that's not achievable or is leaving you in severe pain. take a step back and do shorter intervals or slightly lower power and only increase these as you are able. You've got to cooperate with your body, not beat it into submission (save that for the later stages of the race)

You cannot go all out in every training session and on back to back days and expect to recover or improve. I wonder is your "do or die" attitude at odds with that reality?

Everything is a compromise. If you go all out today, you will need to recover tomorrow; and that's harder to coordinate when you are doing 3 sports. So the best time to make big cycling gains is not immediately before a race when you need to maintain all 3 sports. I suggest you do what you can for this one, and do try to enjoy it, then take a break and recover. Then consider setting aside swimming and running (or doing very little) for a while, maybe 2-3 months, and just concentrate on cycling. Don't overdo it. Do less hours and be disciplined. Do 3 to 5 sessions a week, and only 2 of them hard ones.

I’m a big believer in MAF

https://philmaffetone.com/method/

Aerobic fitness is the biggest piece of the pie. Improve your aerobic fitness and everything moves with it.

Read the link and give it a try. Maybe adjust the zone down by 10 bpm for cycling. After years running and cycling zones will be the same. But to start 10 bpm was good for me.

This will take a few months to get used to so it won’t likely help for this upcoming race, but huge gains will follow.

Training at MAF HR will cause an adaptation that will allow the heart to pump a much greater blood volume.

Enjoy the process!

If that's not bullshit you should stop training and consult. I've never seen anyone pass out in training in my whole life.

Sooooooo.....have you finally come to the conclusion that hacks and shortcuts don't exist in this arena?

You've gotten great advice here in the past despite your reticence to use it. Pick a training plan. Stop winging it. Stick to the plan. Some people do great with putting together their own training, but you seem to drown in information and need to focus on the actual training part. You need somebody to tell when when to NOT GO SO HARD and well as when to ramp up the intensity.

Glad to see your goals have become more realistic as well.

Well I think part of it is low volume and part of it is not enough intensity if that’s his time input.

In 2017 I overall averaged 4.4hrs a week cycling. 2018, 4.7 hours. 2019 on track to finally break 5hrs a week.

Honest 280w hour number and gunning for 320 for 20 by December. Doing around 340 for 5 min and close to 420 for 2 min to 3min.

All on 70kg and under 6 hrs a week. I don’t swim but on maybe 20hrs running a year am around 21min for a 5k.

Maybe I’m a freak or maybe I understand how to optimize my time.

I don’t think he’s optimizing his time and needs new plans in the future that do.

If short on time you have to become your own personal expert on optimization of everything you do to grow power.

Also, he should check his meter. When I started riding, I weighed about what he does and did that number off the couch untrained as a first test.

as mentioned, look at 2x20min intervals as a minimum if you can go to (3x20 or 2x30 then great do that), and dont overdo the intensity, especially in the first few minuites.

the crux is you need to do intervals that are predominatly training your aerobic system, theres a decient chart in this link that outlines where the anerobic aerobic fall off/ take over,

http://www.gbosonapps.net/training-concepts.html

work wioth your heart rate to check you are not pushing too hard, if anything set your target power a little low so you can hit it for the full interval(s) rather than carking out, as thats goig to skew the traiing towards the non aerobic area.... you can always add a few more watts on at the end of the interval/ next training session.

I also like to get in a 1x60 session occasionally, justt to mix things up a bit, it dosent need to be balls out or anything, its just a good way of getting another hour of sweet spot in.

recovery wise, just get moving somehow, even 15-20 mins on the bike at low intensity will help (say 1/2 ftp) or even just go for a walk, get that blood round your system to aid recovery without stressing your system.

fueling, just eat somthing to cover the workout a bit before, a banana? and get some protein. its worth getting on an app like myfitness pal to keep a check on calories so you dont end up gorging after a workout, bt generally try to limit the meat a bit, and get some fruit/grains/ veg in there, gradually you'll learn what fueling you need ( everyones a bit different) for endurtance training you shouldnt need lots of calories over what you need to run like you would with weight/sprint training.

This thread made my day.

But at least to add something to it. I don't think you will gain anything considerably in 5-6 weeks, considering that 2 of those weeks should be taper. You basically have 3 weeks to really focus. I suggest researching this forum on ways to increase your ftp, since there are tons. 2x20mins@95% ftp is one good way. There are many others.

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- Jordan

My Strava

One of us is a freak :) I can hold more one hour power but couldn’t do your 2 - 3’ interval power. Is 420 a one off or can you bang out 8 of them?

Maybe I need to suffer more (shrug)?

Fueling is quite important during training and might be one of the reason you're not seeing that much improvement. You can take any simple regime, but you're going to have to eat!
This is what I would eat during training weeks (this is just a guide and what works for me)

AM Workout done fasted, primarily due to time constraints.
Breakfast: overnight oats or greek yoghurt and granola, both with fruit.
AM snack: tin of sardines and a cup of coffee
Lunch: usually something like chicken/broccoli/rice, or chili with barley, or thai curry with chicken and vegetables with udon noodles.
PM snack: Peanut butter and an apple
PM workout
Dinner: Usually something similar to what I do for lunch
Dessert/dinner#2: fruit smoothie, sometimes with protein powder to help with recovery.

I'm usually eating like 2500 - 3000 calories but burning much more so am generally dropping weight as the season progresses. I get by without nutrition during workouts on these days because the workouts are less than one hour, but if my workouts are more than an hour, I'm definitely taking in something. Especially on the bike, where I'm going out for a 50k+ ride. I'll usually eat either solid food (dates, sometimes even stop for a sandwich), or gels/blocks.

You'll definitely need to fuel your body if you expect it to improve/do more.

Ok, this is a start. That's not terribly different from my own standard tri-week. There's plenty of time there. But, we need a little more information...specifically, what times of the day are available for that training. In particular, on Mon/Wed you have 2.5+ hours available. Is that in a single block, or can you break that into two sessions? Can you list a typical training week, such as:

Mon AM swim / PM Run
Tue PM Bike (2x20 @ FTP)
Wed AM Swim / Lunch Run / PM Bike
Thu Lunch run (long)
Fri Lunch Run / PM Bike
Sat AM Swim / lunch Bike (long) / brick run
Sun OFF

Its hard to get in the proper quantity of training across SBR without doing a few two-a-days. If your swim is where you say, then you can probably get by on 2x per week. I'm a run-frequency proponent. So, I prefer to run 5-6x, and never less than 4x. When my training is balanced, my bike is 4x. If I'm in a bike focus, then I'm 5-6x on the bike, and 4x on the run (even if they are just short/easy runs, I still run).

Whatever training plan you've been following has left the volume build to VERY late (too late). I aim to be at full volume 12+ weeks prior to the event I'm training for. Then I begin transitioning that volume into more and more race-specific work in those last 12 weeks. Exactly what that looks like depends on the race length, though. Longer race = more tempo, shorter race = more threshold/vo2.

As vijeet said, you need to eat every meal...more or less similar calories for each meal. You need carbs, and protein especially. I aim for 1.5-2.0 grams of protein / KG of body-weight. I eat lean meats (chicken, pork, fish, lean beef). I don't typically fuel specifically for sessions less than 2 hours. But, being newer to this stuff, you may need to for anything approaching 90+ minutes. If you're wiped after 90 minutes of z2, eat more beforehand as vijeet suggested. Over the years your body will adjust and the duration you can sustain without fueling will lengthen. Bottom line, don't deplete yourself...it takes too long to recover and downstream workouts will suffer.

In the time you have left, you aren't going to make major ground on your FTP, but a 10% bump isn't unreasonable. But, you need to focus your efforts on the bike, and NOT the run. Just run at your target race pace...6 min/km. Don't do anything fancier than that. For the bike, a focussed 2x20/2x30/1x45/1x60 session at 160 watts or so should help. I also like to put some intensity into my long bike. Eg:

20min warmup,
2x(20min z2 (120 watts for you), 10min in zone3 (about 135 watts for you),
5min easy
4x10 @ 90% FTP (5min recovery)
finish out duration in z1/2

But, you gotta eat, and you gotta rest.

Ali
Most of my sessions are zone 2 heart rate. I've bought the power metre now to get more accurate.

So if I am doing nothing wrong. Then this is just how long it takes. Maybe I should have done longer cycles last month.

Zone 2 stuff has given me great fitness but my legs on the bike seem to never have any power. It's rather frustrating

All this thread was about was planning... I wanted to know roughly how much better would I expect to get in 6 weeks, so I can plan.

This is quite cool bro, I've worked mostly in zone 2 heart rate without carbs to do a similar effect. I never thought of vitamin d as well. Hmmm

I feel quite fit tbh. Resting heart rate is now 54 ish when it was 65 at the start. So I'm getting there.

Thanks!

Really? That's interesting. I know when I've pushed my running too hard, when I go light headed. If I don't get water fast enough, I'm gone.

I assume it's due to low blood sugar.

Yeah, the bike sucks. At this rate, it'll take many years to achieve average bike times.

It does take time, but you should notice gradual improvement. What do you mean by zone 2? Roughly what percentage of FTP or max HR?
What other sessions do you do? Any typical examples?

What sessions have caused you to pass out?

I came on here 6 months ago asking how to optimise 😂

Got wrecked.

Told to cycle more

I am quite weak in the legs. I just don't know why. Happy to squat 120kg and leg press 240kg, but I can't push out 220w? I could barely hold 260w for the 3 min warm up

It's like on the bike my creatine levels are great. Past a min, I have no energy to push.

Hmm

OK
1. Yes, I realise I don't have a great 2 x 20min session in the week. Il charge the 60min tempo to 2 x 20mins
2. I try to walk 10 to 12k steps a day. Just because I'm a office dweller. I do agree this helps a lot with that burning
3. OK so the up and go should do it? I've only just started this. 200 calories and 30g of carbs. 10g protein
4. Tbh I can burn 4k calories and eat 1.5k and it doesn't bother me. But interesting u said less meat. 60-80% of my diet is meat. I'll go research

Yep, that was the main question. If there is no way to improve now. Then cest la vie

I could technically push it back a year but where is the fun in that

I'll just do it and visit some friends.

Then next year. Ill just keep doing longer rides

Interesting.

I eat roughly the same every day I'm at work.

Morning I drive 3 hours - black coffee
Lunch eggs and bacon
4pm up and go pre workout (new)
5 till 8 is some form of training
Dinner is a recovery protein drink and then meat and sweet potatoes

I average 1700 to 1900 calories and I maintain weight 😂😂

I am trying to think what I can eat during a ride. I'll try dates, I like dates

I have no doubt he will do 4:59:xx

If not we’ll guess we won’t hear from him again as he’ll be dead

I'm curious what FTP test you did. You seem to really be struggling, so how did you come up with that number? Also, why not stop making this up as you go along and get on TrainerRoad and do one of their plans? You'll learn some stuff along the way. Six weeks doesn't really seem like enough time to fix all of your issues before your next 70.3, but you can still build fitness in that time.

Also, I'm surprised nobody is mentioning your running. If you're this bad at planning your cycling, how are you structuring your running?

I call this the max plan as it can change if work changes or I can't go the next day. I e I am sitting in bed now with my legs hurting too much from yesterday that I can't do my run in time for my kids birthday party.

I follow loosely the attached the last few weeks. Prior weeks was building up and 80% zone 2 heart rate.

I lost 4 weeks due to flu

I lost 6 weeks due to a concussion in Argentina and Argentina itself

But other than that 60% of my sessions I think are on strava. I work 3 hours from my home. So if I say work, I am already up at 5, I can't get up earlier. Also caveat... This may be what I'm doing now, I admit, it was probably half this a few weeks ago

Monday am work
Monday pm 2 hour at pace (28kph) - gym, up to 10 x 200m swim, 20min stretching sauna

Tuesday morning - 30mins easy run (never do this tbh)
Tuesday pm - home

Wednesday - 2 hour on trainer at race pace, 30min easy run after

Thursday - morning work
Thursday pm - 10 x 1km run at an uncomfortable pace (that's about 4:30-4:45 for me) and 4km easy swim after then 20min sauna

Friday - rest

Saturday - 1-2 hour jog easy
Sunday 2-4 hour cycle easy

I have only swimmed maybe a dozen times this year. However, I swam a 36min 1.9km 2 weeks ago and felt fine. If rather put more effort into cycling

My running just isn't as good as last year. I've sacrificed all my miles for cycling

OK. Since my sessions are mostly evening. I'll start eating something 2 hours out.

Yesterday I did eat 3 hours out... A pie 😂😂😂

I'm happy with a 10% bump!! Could I practically do 150w for 3 hours? From the calcs that could be a 3:00-3:15 time

I only received a power metre this week haha. So my heart rate stays at 130ish for my zone 2 training

Although, I noticed a problem a few weeks ago that my heart rate would never go over 140.

Ive fixed that now. It seems to be in my head

Last pass out was about 4 weeks ago. 8 x 1.5km sprints. I did 60mins on the bike and then hit the sprints, got to sprint 5 and felt whoosy. So I headed to the bathroom, passed out on the cold floor. Had some water and warmed down

I'm not saying its normal... But if I haven't eaten and I'm terrible at staying hydrated. I presume this is quite normal

I went to doctor. Nothing wrong with me apart from what I Knew and was practically told to harden up. He gave me some thyroid tablets. So we seeing if they work with energy levels

This sort of training isn't going to kill me tbh. I presumed at the start I'd be doing some killer training. However most of the time it's watching movies and listening to audiotbooks

are you working on your nutrition plan as well for the race? Passing out in the middle of your event would be no fun. A lot of folks in the med tent at my last 70.3 because they didn’t hydrate well on the bike and bonked on the run.

Good luck with your training, putting the puzzle pieces together is both fun and frustrating.

I think I answered the running questions up and post 😂 tbh, I focused on cycling and regret it a bit. I can run 5min kms now but that's a lot harder than last year.

I ran the zwift 45min test. The warm up fucking killed me thou haha

I had to re start phone and then average them together to get 180w (please see image attached)

I would do again but my legs are killing me. This morning

Not normal.. I do fasted workouts all the time. Very hard ones. Always awake. Never seen anyone pass out and I've seen dehydrated people go harder than you are describing.

A doctor should probably know about that.

And like people said in every one of your very similar threads, 5-6 scattered hours per week is not gonna get you anywhere soon. Listen to the people that are telling you to commit to a better plan.

---

Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4

I bonked on the cycle last year 😂 took me ages to recover to realise

I went out on the bike and lost one bottle and then did 60km on my one bottle hahahaha wobbled into the run until I got a red bull... Fuck did it give me wings!!

I'm so confused. People have said change one session to 2 x 20mins and have longer runs

Triathlon Tarin says only 2 sessions a week hahahaha

Doctor said drink some concrete. The kiwi way of saying stop being a pussy.

At this pint you could probably go with the two workout plan that taren talks about. A longer session with some cadence work mixed in and a short, hard session.

Next training cycle, pick a legit plan and follow it. That way as your training progresses you know what to tweak and what you respond best too.

I think your doc may be a bit out of touch if he’s telling you to HTFU when you’re passing out from some moderately hard workouts. I do fasted bricks a good bit. Up to 2.5-3 hours and have never even felt remotely close to passing out. Something like isn’t jiving and it could be potentially dangerous.

Telling people to HTFU when they pass out is how high school kids die during summer workouts for football. Old school thinking based on old school science. The new school is to train smart.

Ok, here's what I see:

You've been sick and injured which put you out of training for 4 weeks and 6 weeks respectively. That nullifies whatever fitness gains you might have made prior to each of those incidents. Further, having both of those events this year means that you've likely made ZERO gains, and probably have slid backwards compared to last year. performance and fitness gains require consistent training, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. A lost day here or there...or even a week for vacation won't matter. But, a month and a month-and-a-half....you are starting over. Especially, when you don't have a long history (eg, "base") to rely on.

Second, you've only been training at pretty low volume until recently. Even your recent volume is still pretty minimal, in the cold light of day at

• 6k swimming,
• 5 hr bike,
• 3 hr run.

Furhter the structure of your run and bike workouts is wholly ineffective. You're really doing NOTHING on the bike. You have 3 unstructured bike workouts with no real intensity. Its just 5 hours of riding. Better than nothing, but not by much. Also, its only 3 rides with two of them on consecutive days. That leaves you not riding at all for 3 days in a row. it would be better to space those out move evenly. Eg, Tue, Thu, Sun.

Its really a very similar story with your running, except that 10x1km "uncomfortable" run is just trash. If you feel that bad today after that run yesterday, you are just digging yourself into a hole that you can't climb out of. Stop that. You shouldn't EVER feel that way on a normal weekly schedule.

Rule number 1: Never do a workout today that keeps you from doing one tomorrow.

I realize today is your off day, but you won't be properly recovered tomorrow, if you feel as you describe today. So, you're wasting your efforts. Tired today, sure....lightly sore, sometimes (not all the time). Burning legs, can't move? Never (except after a big race!!!).

1. All your runs should be easy. No more intervals. They don't help, and they are causing you problems. Replace the 10x1k with a 60minute easy run.
2. Can you move your Monday bike to Tuesday? Instead of 120m at "race pace", do 10m warmup, 2x20m @ 160 watts (3-5m rest), 10m cool down. That's just over an hour, as you adjust you can stretch the 2x20 out to 3x15/2x30/etc. Also, keep the 30m run as a brick after. Same 2 hours of work, just divided different.
3. Add a Monday run start at 30m, and build up to 60m...and don't skip it.
4. Move the Wed bike to Thursday, structured as 10m warmup, 45-60 minutes tempo, 20-30m zone2. Follow with a 30m easy run as a brick after.
5. Move the 10x1k run to Wednesday, but do as a 60m easy run.
6. Move the 4k swim to Wed or Friday (friday is better).
7. Consider the long bike structure I described above with some tempo and some SST.

The result would be:

Mon: 2k-swim, 60m-easy run
Tue: 2x20 bike / 30m easy run brick
Wed: 4k swim (alt), 60m easy run
Thu: 90m tempo ride / 30m easy run brick
Fri: 4k swim (preferred)
Sat: long run
Sun: Long bike

With this structure you might find that your legs don't really need Friday off. In which case you could easily add a 60m recovery ride, or a 30m recovery run, if you have the time. Lots of other ways to solve the problem. I don't really know what all your scheduling options are. But, I was trying to give an example of spacing things out a little better so you are never away from one sport for very long, without trying to change your overall volume.

I would kill the sauna, if you are time crunched. Unless you are training for a HOT race, its not really doing anything for you. Either spend that time training SBR or get back to regular life.

As I said above, never bury yourself. When in doubt go a little easier...not harder. Long term gains are made by long term consistency, not by being a hero on Tuesday.

ETA: I'm not really a fan of bricks, and rarely do them myself. I'm only suggesting them above as a more time-efficient way to get some more easy run volume. Personally, I have the scheduling flexability to be able to do them separately.

This gives me a lot to think about thanks. 6 months ago when I asked here, I was just told to ride more. That riding more would do all I needed, then add stuff later on.

I only go in the sauna as my fun and keep the warm down going. Have read it helps increase fitness. It's 9pm by this time tbh I can't do anymore

Yeah tbh legs hurt every day.

The sauna is a waste of time.

Well, it won't hurt. So if you enjoy it fine. But, no it won't make you any fitter.


Fix that. It shouldnt be that way. So, if it is... Figure out what you did and fix it.

1. Proper intensity in an appropriate dose for your current training state.
2. Proper recovery from previous sessions.
3. Proper nutrition.
4. Sufficient sleep.

My guess is that you are breaking most of those rules.

Might be worthwhile posting a picture or video of your bike fit. If you’re way off base with the fit the sore legs and wonky numbers might make more sense.

What about race nutrition? Is the plan to have dates during the race or something else? If it's something else then maybe do a bit of training with that. When I'm 6 weeks from a race I try and prepare for that race. Of course that means getting the training done but it also means practicing everything to avoid making a mistake on the race day. At this stage the big gains are avoiding the big loses.

Are you entirely comfortable with every bit of race kit you'll use? Do you know what nutrition is handed out on the course and do you like it? Are you going to be one of those people who get to the last week and suddenly have to replace their running shoes? Do you know the course details? Have you visualised yourself taking part?

Likewise, I may of read you wrong, but you don't want to train a lot and then invent up a power number that a version of you could maintain if the training had gone magically. What you want to do is during your training learn enough about yourself so that you go into the race with a realistic plan that will work. As someone else said, it should feel easy to start with.

TLDR not seeing a lot here about race preparation.

I hear you. But there is a lot of research pouring our on impacts of excecise and sauna treatments.

I. E here is one conclusion on heart health

"Our findings suggested that a combination of repeated sauna
therapy and exercise training is a safe and effective method to
improve cardiac function and physical activity in patients with
CHF."

If you search on Google scholar sauna treatment and vo2 max. It's an interesting read. Maybe nothing but I also like it, so might as well keep doing it.

I don't think I'm getting enough sleep and maybe I'm working harder than I think.. Hmm.

That's a good point. I'll try and post a video on bike fit tomorrow

Sorry, I don't normally eat during a race. I guess I didn't learn my lesson last year. I find I can last up to 4 hours without eating and 2 without water.

I want to do a sprint tri in 2 weeks and I think your right. I should practice the nutrition on the Sunday long ride

Yeah, I wouldn't mind moving from a one piece to a 2 piece. Last year, trying to piss was annoying

They hand out red bull and some sort of bar. There was bottles of some water and electro yes. I should go find out what it is. I'm not fussy and my tummy has no problems

No, I bought new hokas last month 😊

Yes, the course hasn't changed much from last year. I'm fully ready to complete it without a beer in hand this time

Umm not sure where u got that from? I train 8-10 hours and scaling up to 14. That's more than a lot of people I know. Power number is from zwift...

Maybe I didn't write that well, I'm not talking anything specific or personal here. Whatever your power numbers are, what I'm saying is partly use training between now and the race to find and practice a realistic target race power. It's something we should all do. Any of us can be as fit as anything but if we don't pace the bike properly the race will go south. All I'm saying is put in the prep to know what that pace is - that is one of the biggest gains you can make. I don't want you to come back with a race report and say you overcooked the bike.

I think that's very fair advice. I wonder what time I would of got last year if I had nutrition for the event

Somthing else worth mentioning here thst I dont see is that FTP on a trainer and on the road can be different, I see roughly 15w difference, around 210 indoors, 225 outdoors.

Also dont trust the power meter totaly, I know my PM is pretty accurate, as it reads the sameish as others I have used, that have been checked, a freind is doing TT times MUCH quicker than me on significantly less watts, and i know he's not that much more aero.... need to get him to try my PM at some point....

another thing, base calories can be lower than you expect, especially if you sit in an office all day, i fall into this catogory and I can maintain weight when not training on about 1300-1400 calories, also dont trust the "estimated " calorie usage of apps, if its not PM based it can be vastly off, also on that train, if you are doing 150w an hour for 3 hrs, then you dont want to be following the fueling plan of somone doing 250w for 3 hrs,

I cant do gels, hate them make me queasy, prefer somthing more solid flapjack oat bars, nuts etc. i did experiment with veg smoothies on the bike which worked well, but i used a beetroot juice base, and gave up on them after missing my mouth and ending up looking like an extra from a vampire film... LOL

Re the meat, sothing like 30% of calories from meat is still considered high protein, from the blacking out I would get blood sugars checked out.

You might do better to concentrate on things that you can change in the coming weeks pretty quickly. Work on getting a good type position in the aero bars maintaining speed going around turns getting the bike back up to speed after things like terms and the tops of hills and then quickly get back in the aero bars. Work on writing effectively in the wind. make sure you are using your gears correctly. when you ride your bike try to be mindful about what you are doing rather than using it as a way to relax and escape from life.

The sauna routine can increase blood plasma volume but does not work by itself to increase endurance.

An athlete has to put in the work to build the endurance and strength to use that increase in blood plasma volume.

I'm not saying you haven't put in the work, just wanted to make the above info clear.

Yes, there's an effect. But, it takes two weeks at about an hour a day to maximize it. As Jaret said, it's all about increasing plasma volume. I live in Texas. When I move inside on some random day, my hr is stupid low at the same pace.

Yes, you can use that effect to an advantage. But, that's icing....you need a cake to put icing on. You don't have a cake, yet. When you have a year doing something like the schedule above, every damn day... You will have the beginnings of a cake.

There's no harm in it, so if you enjoy it and it's not taking time away from other things...no worries. But, I wouldn't trade real training time to sit in the sauna.

I caveat all that with, "unless you are training for a HOT race, while living somewhere cool." that's a different conversation.

Yeah I'm deffo around the same with the calories. 1.5k a day and ill maintain weight quite nicely. I sit around 15% body fat and it refuses to go down

I lose weight by fasting (40 hours to 11 days). I can't do that now thou.

I hate gels cos of the sticky. I'm about to go for a ride and I'm going to trial banana

Looking at time estimators. I'm quite happy with 180 to 200 ftp tbh. Going to see if I can hold 150 for longer periods of time

Yes I agree here. You can't use sauna and no exercise. But together!

Deffo icing and I deffo like it for winding down after a hard session.

I doubt I'll ever compete out of nz. Its hot here in summer and I'm from UK, but I just sweat buckets

So what's your routine? Looks like you work in the office 2 days a week (hence 12h travel) and from home 3 days a week then?

---

29 years and counting

Hey, I travel down 200km on Monday morning, back Tuesday night.

Stay home wednesday

Travel down Thursday morning and back Friday night

It's OK but it does mean Monday morn, Tuesday night, Thursday morning and Friday night are off limits. Weekends I need to get up early or my wife says no to hours of training

Well 120watts is fooking boring

That’s a two hr workout. Your race will be over 3x that.

Kona is littered with pros who thought their early bike pace was easy, only to end up as shambolic messes during the run (Macca, Mark Allen, Brownlee). Even for these world champions and oly medalists pacing for a long event didn’t come naturally.

---

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Yeah ended up with a 2.5 hour workout. I don't mean it's easy. Just boring. Super. Super. Boring.

Watching zwift for the first time.... Not as entertaining as I thought haha

At 120w I'd be 3hr 45mins. Wow, so slow. But if I can run a 2 hour half after.... I guess it's not "that" bad.

Tbh, this is looking like the same time as last year. Last year, I didn't train 😅😅😅

Love it.

7 weeks of training and bad fueling for a bonk of 7.5 hours and 8 months of dedicated training for maybe 7 hours 😂😂😂😂😅😢😅🤣😂🤣

Ok. Please be honest. You have NOT done 8 months of dedicated training the way anyone in ST would define that. It has been haphazard, sporatic, and poorly planned. It's been interrupted by illness and injury for 4-6 weeks at a time.

All of this means that, yes, you are in roughly the same shape that you were last year. It's not a mystery, and it shouldn't be a surprise.

Part of training and racing is the honest, objective analysis of your prior training. Please be fair and honest when you characterize your training.

If you want to go faster, then in the next 14 months... you will need to train 90% of the days between now and then. You can't miss 4 weeks or 6 weeks at a time, and you can't train for 4 hours a week and then 8 hours and then jump to 14 hours for a few weeks and think it's going to go fabulous. Triathlon is pretty brutal that way. You can't fake your way through a 70.3.

Even my strava shows constant training. But OK... U do u boo

Tbh... If this is actually the case. I'm wondering if it'll be more fun to not train....

I want to do the 70.3 in taupo every year.

I wonder if I just keep enjoying my running. Then quickly do 7 weeks of training on bike and a couple of swims and enjoy my 7 hours

Roi... Is Roi... Is roi

I read about half this thread and saw it touched on, but just to explicitly state it:

You said you've done many hours in Zone 2 HR; you also need to put some hours into high effort. Zone 2 is great, and more people should spend more time in it, but (estimating) a ton of hours spent at 125w isn't going to magically result in a 310 FTP. I understand how you could be left feeling it wasn't fully explained, and that's true: A lot of people just say stuff like "run slow to run fast," but they don't really mention that you also need to put 10-20% of time in working hard. If you exclusively run or bike slowly, you'll just be a slow runner or cyclist. The trap that a lot of people fall into is working like.. upper Z3, low Z4 and either never really recovering right, never building long endurance, or never pushing their upper end.

---

JustinDoesTriathlon

Owner, FuelRodz Endurance.

Yes, I think this is the main bit I either didn't read or was assumed I would know

More high internal stuff at 200w coming up

...and patience in yourself and the process...an endurance sport like triathlons rewards those who look for the long term...8 months in this sport is nothing...it's a start, but that is all it is. It takes years for most of us to achieve our potential if we ever do.

The Fascat charts have it pegged that you could in theory almost do endless SS work and recover fine. I think most people over estimate test results amd their zones are actually too high for SS.

You should be able to do Z4 almost daily as 3x15’s, 2x20’s, etc....

But if your test id bunk, you won’t.

You didn't read it. Specifically, you didn't read all of the recommendations in your previous threads (and in other newbies' how-do-I-improve threads) to get a subscription to a service like Zwift, TrainerRoad, Sufferfest, or others, and to follow one of their training plans. You will learn, by doing it, how to become a faster cyclist. You will see lots of work near your FTP level, and many short intervals at 150%, 200%, or even a higher percentage of your FTP. You need a certain percentage of recovery (and time off the bike) but you need to have time above your FTP as well. Following a plan will help to ensure that you don't overdo it in either direction.

Since you're on Zwift now, you could start their "build me up" series, with your FTP initially set to about 170. That will help to make sure you don't burn out in the lead-up to your race, but it will likely still give you more quality time on the bike than you've been giving yourself.

---

Less is more.

Do we have any science as to why?

Running, almost every fat guy like me I know has gone from 2:30 to 1:50 half marathon quite quickly.

Swimming. Almost everyone with stroke training can do 38mins

Endurance and overall fitness should mean with 6 months training
40min swim
2hr 5 half marathon
But the cycle?????

Why is cycling the exception? Is it a certain muscle In the front quad? The density? The balance of muscle variance with the run?

I believe u guys but I am still searching for the reason 😅

I am still one of the worst cyclists I know. Haven't got any better from when I first got on the bike. As u heard in this forum, newbies go faster than me 😂🤣😅

Zwift requires a power metre. A power metre required money. I spent 11 months waiting for a 2nd hand one. The first one that came up... I bought last week.

There is a build me up series? Wow that's cool. Yeah, zwift looks cool. 20 bucks kiwi a month thou.... Geee whizz

You don’t need a power meter to train on Zwift or TrainerRoad. Look up their virtual power equipment requirements. If you have one of the trainers they recognize then you can train with virtual power if you have a speed and cadence sensor and heart rate monitor (don’t think you need the HRM but I would use one for monitoring efforts).

It's not. Your training isn't good. People make massive cycling gains in relatively short periods of time all the time.

Pick a plan. Stick to it. Stop trying to wing it as that's obviously not working out for you. You seem to have information overload at this point and need to focus. So let somebody else who knows what they're doing do all the work for you, and just do a plan that's already laid out.

Having said all that, your race is not far away, so you may have to just wing it until then.

If only you'd asked about all this earlier this year............

I have got a plan. I also posted the plan. Its from a 70.3 website.

I'm now using toms plan.

And yet you just posted this.

"More high internal stuff at 200w coming up"

So you'll have to pardon me if I'm a bit skeptical that you're adhering to any plan.

As others have noted, you could have used Zwift without a power meter - all you need is a rear wheel speed sensor. Other training programs such as Sufferfest give you perceived-exertion guidance that works pretty well (you'll quickly learn what they mean by "8 / 10" once you overdo it a few times)

Anyway - you have a PM now. Learn how to use it (eg. make sure you do a zero offset calibration regularly) and you can then count on it to give an objective assessment of how you are doing on any ride, indoors or out.

This is just my opinion, but I think that the various training tools such as Zwift, Trainer Road, the Sufferfest, Rouvy etc. give tremendous bang for the buck. I can think of a bunch of stuff that I spent $240 on this year, that did not improve or maintain my cycling ability nearly as much, as regular quality workouts (or virtual races) on the trainer.
- New helmet(s) since I crashed on one
- new tires
- new shoes
- other assorted kit
- tools
- etc.

For someone new to the sport like yoursef, the potential improvement is substantially greater.

---

Less is more.

Because my plans have all have heart rate... Not power.

So then where is 200w coming from? You're proving my point. If it's heart rate based, then do that. If it were power based, then do that. Since you just got a power meter and your race is so soon, just stick to your plan and record power for future use.

Sounds good to me! I don't buy anything tbh, I pick up second hand everything or make do.

I have a feeling this zwift is going to be a worth while amount. It cost 150nzd for pm, 180 for shimano 105 crankset (new) and I installed it myself... Super happy about that

More appropriate cranks now

Because.... The responses from this forum said.... Do more power than ftp for short intervals to go faster. Hence, I need to do more 200w. This was subsequently updated to 2 x 20mins and then again to zwift sessions

Not sure why you look for holes. The other guys put a simple plan. I'm going to do another ftp test to lock zwift in properly at a number and then use that getting better system

So you're not sticking to a plan. 200w is an arbitrary number at this point. This isn't poking holes. It's pointing out the obvious when you've asked for advice.

Do the FTP test, then STICK TO THE PLAN YOU PICK based on that result.

Coool. No idea what u mean. But thanks 😂

He’s asking where you came up with 200 watts as your number for your workout.

Zwift has a few FTP tests that you can now do with your power meter. After you take the test, you can select one of their training plans that will set the intensity of the workout based on your FTP.

I think you’re best bet is to do what you are confident in for this race. Next year, sell out to training with power and I’m sure you will make some good gains.

That's quite cool and well worth the money tbh!

Assume you are working in Wellington given that drive time from Whanganui.

Have you given any consideration to relocating to be closer to the job?

Moreso, for saving time in the commute and spending time with your pregnant wife/new kid? Obviously would free up some time to train also...

Most others have given you some good ideas on actual training so hopefully some of it might sink in..

I'm a consultant, it's hard to know where I'll be needed next. Whanganui allows me to be within 3 hours of most clients and have a 300k house 🤣

Taking 6 months off next year for new bubs, but that's next year 😢

What I don't get is the assumption it isn't sinking in...

When someone gives actual advice. I. E not just a jab or an an opinion. I write it down in my spreadsheet. This allows me to cross reference all the advice (which does contradict) then I spy on some of u on strava and look to take some things in.

Doing what I was told by the masses has left it quite bad tbh. I understand why they think it works, they probably cycle all the time.

For me. I obvious need more specific stuff since I don't go outside.

I like the solution. "let zwift tell u what to do"

That makes life easier

 
Just a thought, what cadence do you typically pedal at?

I find your numbers a bit odd given the amount of training you do.

On the bike 5-6 hrs a week
Can Squat 120kgs and press 240 kgs
Do additional run and swim trainings to develop your aerobic capacity.
But your FTP is 180W

Just doesn't make sense to me.

Do you have an proper calibrated power meter?
How are you measuring your FTP?
Do you have data from any 40k TT or Olympic Tri (Hr and power)

Your aerobic threshold doesn't really have much to do with muscle size and strength, after all my mum who is 70 can pump out enough force to create 400W getting out her chair to make a cup of tea, she just cant do it 80-100 times a min!!!

Thats what your aerobic fitness of for.

Im a TT'er, my FTP is 310W and 5s power 1650w. Not sure I could squat 120kgs!!!! Back would probably let go!!

With 5-6 hrs a week you should be doing one 3hr ride with your hr less than 70% your max.
One 1 hr ride hr less than 60% your max and 2x1hr interval sessions with hr about 90% max during the intervals.
The 1hr sessions will have 30-40 mins of actual hard work the rest is warm up and cool down in in between. Intervals should be no shorter than 4mins and no longer than 16 mins.

Try and steal and extra hr from your run training to just ride and turn one of the interval sessions into a 2hr 70% max session.

With the remainder of the running keep the sessions shorter but faster pace. (caveat im a cyclist not a triathlete. :) )

p.s. FTP is not the be all and end all of cycling performance. Its just a number.

Yeah nah I'm only a fairly average triathlete, but in my view, the cycling workouts you need are fairly simple.

If you can get some basic sense of what you are trying to acheive (meaning); some sense of confidence that you are getting there (mastery) and many people like to feel that they are not a slave to someone telling them how to do things (autonomy), then it will stop the stress of worrying you are training the wrong way and not getting anywhere. As a consultant I presume these 3 principles are very obvious to you as principles of staff productivity.

3 different workouts all of which have been spelt out to death to you many many times in this thread, and appear in almost every workout - strength work outs (very intense); sweet spot and interval work outs (close to the maximum you can hold during your cycling with short recoveries or recoveries at intensity); recovery rides low intensity.

There is no secret to being good at cycling; you do these 3 and you will get stronger. And that means a lot of sessions and productive time on the bike. Every time you are doing a sauna or a stretch session or strength work in the gym....you are giving up the time that could have been used for a bike session. Learn to love the bike.

Given a 4 week training block from now until you start your taper, just be realistic on your current goals, and know that your training is improving you to get there, forget the idea there is some magic you haven't found in cycling which would suddenly boost your FTP to 300. With 4 weeks use time wisely, every morning even if you only have 20min, jump on the bike, do a 10min warm up, and 5X the 1min all out strength set 1min rest no cooldown; any work is better than none.

Enjoy the riding. Not everyone is a natural. Biking far more than swimming though is just a time on bike sport, but when we say that, it means 3 types of workouts, not just the recovery ride low intensity ones especially if you are just sitting there spinning easy.

Honestly, I think the worst thing you could do is probably try to merge ALL of the different, good advice you've received. Much of what we've said is similar, but not all of it. There are a lot of ways to make gains on the bike (in the context of triathlon)---but, it all comes down to having a coherent plan. That plan has to mesh with both the run and the swim training. If you take one workout (or sport training framework) from each of us (so to speak), and mash it all together you're back to the same nonsense of having trash for a plan.

That's why I tried to give you a complete structure including run and swim. Because its all one big jigsaw puzzle. Sure, I could just give you a set of bike workouts. But, if you don't schedule those appropriately within the week, and around the run training, you'll still not make any gains...AND with the added intensity on the bike may actually get worse.

FWIW, I've looked at a fair number of free internet plans, and a lot of free plans on training peaks. It seems like every membership I sign up for comes with a "free advanced/intermediate sprint/Oly/HIM/IM plan". How many "8 weeks to your best HIM!" plans can there be? I've downloaded them many times to my account, and put them on the calendar sometime way in the future just to see what nuggets might be there. I don't think I recall ever seeing a good one. I mean, most of them will get you across the finish line, but little more than that. Besides, what little good they might do can be completely trashed by moving everything around within the week, such that the relationship between hard and easy workouts is ruined.

If you were sticking to a plan, you wouldn't be able to decide to add in birs and pieces based on suggestions we're giving you. Yet you say you're following a plan and also say you're changing things based on feedback here. Thus there is a contradiction that has everyone confused.

All the suggestions might be useful to assemble a plan, or to identify a flaw in the one you're currently following. But you can't reasonably expect to tweak the existing plan on the fly with bits and pieces from this thread and still have a coherent plan, or think you're really following one.

Thanks for the question. I try to stick to 80rpm. I really struggle higher. Although, I read one study on larger glucose burn at lower rpm that concerned me

Hey Mario!

My power meter is a stages that I zeroed in from their app. I only got it last week.

I had my first 70.3 last year. Doing again this year. Tbh, I don't even know where any other events are. Hmm maybe I should do one. Last year in training I recorded 3 he 11mins I believe. I could possibly find heart rate from strava?

That's interesting re squat. I thought cyclists could squat and press a lot? Hmm

I had a lot of issues until 2 weeks ago. No matter what I did, my heart rate wouldn't go above 134 on the bike. Around 70% max

When I realized its in my head. Ive finally got my heart rate up.

Just to clarify it's
1 x 3 hour @ 70% - Sunday
1 x 1 hour @ 60% - Friday?
2 x 1 hour @ 90% (intervalsl) - Tuesday and Thursday

OK.

A few people have recommended lowering the runs. Fingers crossed!

Haha loving the Dan pink opener

Yes, I think it's become obvious that my long wasn't long enough and I didn't do any hard core intervals.

So how are you getting your max HR?

Yep, I have your plan now and only tweaked a little to match where I'll be and when

I admit, I dont know what good looks like. I've read a heap of studies. But these are all people that are good.

Where are the fat guys given three years to train for kona and there progress. There is a couple of individuals like triathlon taren but where is his fat man videos

220 minus 32 *looks sheepish*

How else?

Before 130 is zone 2. So I was under the impression, until 8 weeks to go, it's not a major to have a low heart rate

I would actually not use maxHR to figure out zones. test for your LTHR instead and base your zones off that. Max HR is very difficult to get an accurate number for.

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Is this done at gym?

What was your heart rate for the last minute or two of the fastest run you've ever done? Where it felt like you were going to pass out or throw up? That is your maximum heart rate. [220 - your age] is a rule of thumb that doesn't actually apply to any one individual.

It will probably take you some time and determination to get to that point on the bike. On Zwift there is a workout called "the Wringer" that can get you there. On The Sufferfest (if you're shopping around) try either Revolver, Half is Easy, or the Downward Spiral.

These tests are not (probably should not be) part of your leadup to your race. But once you're through that and start preparing for the next one, you need to figure out your baseline capability on the bike and then you can work from there.

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Less is more.

it's a simple field test - can do it indoors or out. all you need is a HR monitor that will record your session.

(courtesy of the 80/20 triathlon book that's sitting on my desk)
find a course that you can go without stopping on for a 30 minute TT

warmup for 10 minutes or more.
hit the lap button and accelerate to the fastest pace / highest effort you can hold for 30 minutes
hit the lap button after 10 minutes
keep going another 20 minutes
hit the lap button again at the end of the 30 minutes

Your average HR during the 20 minute interval is your LTHR.

It's the same test for cycling and running, but your LTHR will most likely be different for cycling and running, so you need to test for those separately.

It's better because (a) LT is more relevant for long events like triathlon than maxHR anyway. and it's very very difficult to actually get to your max HR.

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

You just did an FTP test, correct (hence the topic of this thread)? Can you describe the details of that test? Was it a ramp test, or an all-out steady state effort of 8, 20, 30, or 2x20 duration?

Regardless, in essence you can use your HR data from your FTP test to estimate your LTHR.

220-age is garbage...mine is 20+ bpm higher that that estimate, and I have another friend whose MaxHR is 15 bpm less than that estimate. Besides, I do not enjoy efforts that actually get close to my MaxHR...they are exceedingly tough when you are fit. And further, as Jason said...its not really the best way to go about setting zones (even if you KNOW your Max).

Ftp on bike was lower than run

I cannot tell from these HR graphs what protocol you followed. Can you describe the procedure that you followed step by step? EG:

1. 10min Warmup
2. 5 min all-out
3. 5 min recovery
4. 30min all-out

Just from looking at the graph it looks like maybe:

1. 20min progressive warmup in 5 minute blocks
2. 15 minute recovery?
3. 10 minutes all out?
4. 5 min cool-down?

I don't really want to comment much more until I know the protocol.

ETA: I'm assuming the second graph is the Bike test (since the Avg HR is lower).

It looks like you and I, my friend, are middle of the pack for the foreseeable future. Not that we cant or shouldn't work to be better, just that realistically it's going to take a lot of consistent training to get there.

In 2018 I found myself in a similar situation; I felt under prepared for my upcoming race, burnt out, & injured. Taking a hard look back at my training, I realized I hadn't been as consistent as I thought I was.

I decided to just have fun with my race; I cheered on everyone who passed me, I cheered every volunteer like they were the ones about to cross the finish line, & gave all the spectators big thumbs up & my best grin. I had a blast!

I'm fairly new to Triathlon, I do sprints and Olympic so I don't really have any specific advice. I had really good results this past year by finding a training plan and sticking to it. The trick is to be honest with yourself about your available time & ability, then choose one that looks like it is doable, but will challenge you 2, maybe 3 workouts a week.

I'd also take a hard look at your overall nutrition. Even though some of the workouts you describe sound pretty hard, I suspect that poor nutrition could be holding you back from really pushing hard, and/or compounding it by not allowing you to recover. Look into some good whole grains and plenty of veg to go with all that protein.

Finally, here's some podcasts to listen to on your commute, both for info & inspiration.
Tower 26
Trainer Road Podcast
That Triathlon Podcast
Simon Ward The Triathlon Coach

Best of luck.

Um, you are the one who said you took 4 and 6 weeks off. Is this you? https://www.strava.com/athletes/13836140 From what you're logging on Strava your training seems anything but consistent.

-Eric

He said Half IM, not Full... 5-6 per week doesnt like much but it could be high quality, dunno. Trainer Intervals will CERTAINLY ADD the most to FTP within 6 weeks, but have to be willing to SUFFFER/ Recover Suffer/ Recover etc., like 3 minutes All Out Drills @ 140% Tabata Style...

That comment was made before he edited his comments to include specifying it was a 70.3 not an IM. Doing a half w/ 5-6 hours isn't much. That's 1 long ride and then only 2 90 min sessions. So I'd still say set your expectations accordingly.

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Wil gt back to you properly. I think the bike was the 45min ftp test and the run was 1km sprints at a high level

Thanks for the podcasts!

Yes, last year I fucked up. Pure and simple and it was fun but painful. This year I set aside more effort but obviously not enough.

Running improved so much I assumed cycling would be similar. I'll enjoy it again but this time ill carry on cycling for next year

😂

Yup sorry about that. I always forget the full iron haha

I will make more of an effort to record everything. This allows better Objectivity 😂

I think 5-6hrs per week on the bike is pretty reasonable for 70.3 providing you're not trying to be at the pointy end. If that's what you mean by setting expectations accordingly I agree, but if you mean 5-6hrs is "undertrained" in general, I'd disagree. I think 10-12hrs per week total is perfectly reasonable for a respectable 70.3 performance, and you probably won't be spending much more than half of that on the bike if you're giving the run and swim attention too. Sure, the guys at the front will likely be doing significantly more, but I think the OP has now accepted he isn't in that territory, and he should, I think, be able to improve significantly with sensible, consistent, training, without necessarily increasing his total training time above 5-6hrs a week.

Yes thus why I said plan accordingly. If your trying to just finish, that’s good enough. If your trying to have big improvements that’s not enough imo. No where did I say anything about being undertrained, I said 5-6 hours isn’t much time in the bike for a 56mi bike leg, so thus plan your goals accordingly.

And at that short of time there’s a huge difference between 5 and 6 hours. But when your looking at being on the bike for ~3 hrs your going to only have reasonable results on that few of times riding. But if your starting with an 7+ hr base race then yes you’ll have decent improvement, which I believe the OP was that time range at some point.

So as I said plan accordingly, the most important thing any athlete can do.

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Just confirming A, 5 to 6 hours a week was the plan for just the cycling.

I have 10 to 14 hours put aside for Ironman training

The aim was 6 to 8 hours the first 4 months and then gradual rise from 12 weeks to go to 14 hours.

The thought process was building a solid base

E. G for this week, I have 10 hours planned. The highest training week is 14 hours and that's with 4 weeks to go

Although, as I sit here with throbbing legs after a ftp training session on zwift last night haha, I think that's the session that was missing

Honestly, I think anyone will an OK fitness could finish the 70.3 with next to no training

I presumed my 7.5 hour was the equivalent of a 2.5 hour half marathon. I.e u basically fucked up

So I presumed like a half marathon. If u do some training you will improve.

Say sub 7 hours?

Then if you put in a good amount of training. You would get sub 6 hours

Then I presumed that 4 hours is the grand masters, 4.5 hours is the naturally gifted (similar to the guys doing sub 1hr 30 half marathon)

But maybe... Around that 5 hour mark is the guys who are not gifted but work at it. I. E like running 1hour 45 half marathon

There was enough people who agreed with me that shooting for 5 hours was mad but do able and if I missed, its missing with a sweet as time of 5:20-5:40

But alas. I think the bike... I didn't ride a bike when younger. I refused the bike training when I trained for swimming events and so the first time I really rode was 3 years ago

Maybe.... Cycling requires a muscle that's under developed.

I say this because..... Last night I cranked out over 400 Watts for almost a min. I can hold good power with my creatine stores.... But yeah, nothing longer than 5 mins

5:20 on a legit course for someone your age and size would be a very respectable feat

Heading into my first 70.3 I was doing pretty most of my work in Z2 also. I didn't gain much speed but definitely got comfortable to go the distance at Z2.

I don't think you can expect to pick up much power/speed over the next few weeks. You are overtraining and if you continue as is you will burn yourself out completely. Start getting plenty of rest. Get some long rides in so that you are comfortable in the saddle and balance it with some interval work.

It is better to enter the race 10% undertrained than 1% overtrained.

Really? Is that cos I'm fat 😂😂😭😅🤣😢😅😭

Haha

It seems like in taupo, top 50% are below 6 hours

That's why I presumed it's like a 2 hour half marathon

The sleep aspect is a fair point as well. I have recently increased sleep from 6-7 hours to 8-9 hours and wow its nice

So your goal is 5hrs and then "soft goal" of sub 5:30?

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Originally yup 😅

My thought process was (roughly as I'm in supermarket)

Swim 30mins
transition 6mins
Cycle 2 hours 45mins
Transition 4 mins
Run 1 HR 45

Giving me roughly 5 hour and 10 mins.

This seemed all do able. This meant doing
90km by itself in 2.5hr
21km in 1hr 35

Tbh swim.... I don't swim but I am happy with my efficiency to crack out 35mins without training and 26mins with training

Now I'm looking at 120w... If that's all I can do in December. Then I'm looking at

Swim 35 mins
Transition 6min
Cycle 3:45
Transiton 2 4mins
Run 2 hours

So that's 6:30 I guess

I mean that's an hour faster than last year

OK I blended my watch heart rate and strava from the zwift session last night.

Zwift had me warm up. Then do some 340watt 45 seconds at a time and then finish on 5mins at 95% ftp

I ended up finishing holding 200w and above for 5mins. So I was quite proud of myself. As for the heart rate. Max 180

Check out my activity on Strava: https://strava.app.link/IYXnjSWQb1

Best damn advice i heard ever! I copied n pasted into my notes! Thanks!

And a running heart rate at what I think is easy pace

Realistically this is zone 3 and 4

Check out my activity on Strava: https://strava.app.link/cugb3Qj9b1

I don't think you can compare running and triathlons in terms of finisher % and time. From my very anecdotal research of my local events, triathlons have less BOPers than running races. And by BOPer's, I mean people going into the race with the intention of walking the whole thing because they didn't train. You just don't see that many people that didn't do the work for 70.3's.

Also, there's a lot of triathletes who are gifted in one or two of the disciplines and terrible at the third. If you're a good runner and terrible swimmer, a 1:30 might be easy, but sub 5 might be a real challenge because you are swimming 45 min. And inversely, if you're a terrible runner, but a strong swimmer and cyclist, you could go sub 5, but would really struggle with 1:30.

You can't translate one sport events to a triathlon without context of an individuals strengths and weaknesses. The two events are completely different in my view.