I'm sorry but it does read like a joke.

In 6 months you will not drop that kind of time.

You are 10kg overweight. OK that can be solved. Start there.

But you were in the hospital with heart issues, which to me says you probably are not fit enough to perform at the level you desire. What does your doctor think of you adding that much stress to your body? This alone could cause you to die trying. Is that really what you want for your family?

You have a family and a demanding job, which will basically remove any time you have to put in the quality training you need.

And you are following a diet that is non-conducive to endurance sports.

So why do you think this will work?

Thank you for your response.

On a positive note, you have a solid swim. Stick with that for sure.

6 months is not reasonable to go from 7 hours to 5 hours. What is the rush? These things take time. You are looking at putting in effort over a few years, not a few months, to be able to be able to post times like that.

Yes swim was an easy hack. I posted similar to my swimming network.

My time on run went from 2:30 to 1:50 by changing two simple things last year. This year I expect to get down to 1:30 with training more than two hours a week.

Cycling is something, I do not understand and although my buddy tells me I don't train anywhere near enough.

As for timing. New Zealand is holding the world champs. Sub 5 hour gives me a shot.

Lofty goals remember. Why aim low.

I am actually not at all understanding your times here.

What do you mean you went from 2:30 on the run to 1:50? What race did you split 1:50?

Your bike split in the 6 hour range clearly doesn't make sense. What was your bike split?

my first 70.3 was 6:30 something, second was 7:05-ish, I have no kids, a well life-balanced job and was still in the 30-34 AG, took me two years to get to sub-5 but hey, you want lofty goals, go for it. As long as your doctor says you will be OK. Please keep in mind that most deaths in triathlon occur because of heart issues, although I think most are unknown to the participant so maybe you can find your limits and stay well within them.

Btw, people will ask for stand-alone times, HM stand-alone, FTP, maybe a time trial result, how's your fit, etc. All those and more will matter in the ST judgement of your lofty goal.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Just posted actual's.

I mean individual events. I should pull 1.3x this year for run individually. I am not focussing on swim, will just do lots of high 28s in the pool and then ocean come spring.

Cycling. I have no idea. I don't even understand how people do 2 hours for this.

Thanks for the context. I see that there is a lot of doctor talk. Is this an American thing?

I'm looking for that 80:20 rule of success. There will be something. Always is

No. See IM South Africa few weeks ago, two people died, one of heart issues, the other idk. The point is that heart issues are dangerous for endurance sports in general (everywhere, not just the US) and sub-5 is fairly hard to do even on a cool, flat course. Unless you yourself are a cardiologist, don't just assume you'll be fine.

So do you have any stand-alone stuff in cycling or running? even a 5k/10k? Have you gotten fit for your tri bike?

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Dude!! It looks like you’re trying to make the headlines at the news after the event. You should read the IM news to see that what’s happening for real? Recently, 2 guys at South Africa.
Did you mention a heart condition?
You need to take it easy.

I’m not saying you won’t be able to drop your time but it’s going to take much longer than one year, but your plans are just unrealistic.

You are goofy. Nothing of what you've said makes sense, but I did get a chuckle out of the Greenfield reference.

Well greenfield’s “performance” was injecting stem cells in his member. /pink

2:30 to 1:50. switch from work boots to sneakers and actually tie the laces. /pink

That reads like a buzzfeed article headline. Care to elaborate on what two simple things you changed?
More importantly, like others have said - get your health checked out. There have been far too many deaths in races due to heart conditions.

If you can run a half marathon in 1.3x, you should be able to run a 70.3 in low 1.40s. Swim is good, work on drafting and getting a good position from the start and you can come in with the top kids, shaving a few mins off your swim time. Bike is tricky and depends on a lot of factors:

- course, is it hilly, rough tarmac
- bike, is it an old roadie or decent TT with good wheels/tyres/bikefit/helmet etc
- weather, wind and rain will be a killer
- bike ability, by this I mean natural bike fitness. I guess someone with more understanding could explain this, but what I've noticed is that some people, doesn't matter how much they train, are just shit on the bike. Just really slow. They've trained hard, their run and swim is good, similar age/build to me, but are just slow...
- bike skills/knowledge, I guess this is built up over time. Knowing what cadence to ride at, what gear to use, how to ride hills, how to draft legally, knowing what HR to ride at, gear selection, tyre pressure, actual riding ability as in knowing how fast you can descend, taking corners, how to overtake, making the most of the 25s you get to overtake etc etc All of that takes time. Riding with groups, riding on different bikes with different gear in different conditions on different routes.

I'm a bit confused with your bike times though. You went 3 hours for the bike in a 70.3 or 4 hours? And if you're bonking on a bike that's an easy fix, heart rate monitor. Some may disagree, but I find a 70.3 ride on a par with an average training ride, I can still chat to people, I'm not under duress. (I'll ride low mid 2.20s). A lot of people over-bike, both in 70.3s and IM. Not just inexperienced peeps. One of the top (very experienced) AGers in my area rode as quick as some of the pros 4.3x and then ran 5 hours. He did that 2 years in a row.... and then did the same thing in Kona.. So keeping an eye on that HR is critical. You should never come close to bonking on the bike, maybe with 7 kms to go on the run, but the bike should be moderate exertion.

sub 5 hours is achievable for sure. Just ride lots.

Just gotta say... very first post ever for you, same day you sign up, and it seems way fishy so most people are going to assume you are trolling....

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Colorado Triathlon Company, CO2UT 2021, Crooked Gravel 2022, Steamboat Gravel 2022

So I had a goal of sub-5 hours for my first 70.3. I went 5:00:13... and was 25 mins outside qualifying for worlds. (I also trained 10+ hours a week and had ran 2000 miles a year for years before this.) If you want to ride sub-2:30, which you need to to go sub-5, you need to bike 8-10 hours a week for the next 8 months. If you want to drop 30+ mins in your half marathon, you need to run 30-40 miles per week for the next 8 months. Plus swim, plus stretch, plus lift, plus core, plus 8+ hrs sleep. Do you have that kind of time? I don't think people understand the time commitment you need to be good. Good luck with this though, just don't get disappointed when it doesn't happen.

Love this! Go HAM! PR or ER baby.

Definitely don't need sub 2:30 to go sub 5. I didn't go sub 2:30 for my first few and have never gone close to a 5:00. Just gotta improve the run. Swim is where it needs to be.

27 swim
2.40 ride
1.40 run
:10 for transition
4:57.

Those splits are not out of the realms of possibility.

Got a sexy p2. My first ride was the 70.3 event. So there is a lot of work there I admit.

Yup p.b
5k 20:12
10k 50:10
21k 1:50.xx

Cycle no. Best 45km was 1:20 in the taupo event.

- I'm all good. I'm 32 and just suffer from stress related inflammation. Had my ultrasound and I'm in a ok health. I just had a pericarditis attack. Heart related... Not the heart.

Thank you for your input.

Yeah sure.
1. I added in longer runs
2. I stopped eating so many inflammatory foods.

I did 1hr 58 after a three day water fast after building up long runs. Then tried again but with some low GI foods and I didnt eat in the morning but fuelled with a non fructose based gel (sp my liver was producing ketones still)

So yeah. 2:30, 2:28, 2:20 and then 1:58, 1:50

Now.. I know I can run a 21km event without eating and barely drinking. But I obviously can't do that for 70.3

Hence. I'm looking for the 80:20 rules here. What have shown others major impact on sleep, diet, building miles, HIIT, sessions, rest etc etc etc

I am following Daniel plews (phd and new Zealand top amateur ironman) food this time around. If I can't find the hints and tricks, I will also get him to coach me.

Ahhh ok, good two helpful points of info (especially the heart thing!), but one question remains: did you get a bike fit? if you want sub-5, you need a good bike fit to balance aero & comfort.

5k pb is great, seems you are like I was when I first started, 20 minutes of speed, anything beyond that, death. But to get faster at longer distances as someone said earlier, you need more miles. You also need more hours on the bike. Best hope is to use part or all of your commute to fill in the blanks.

Lastly, spend time practicing transitions, you don't want to end up with a 5:00:20 with a 5 minute T1. It is valuable time. IMO, flying mounts are not valuable in a 70.3 (you'll definitely hear otherwise from others) as you want to ensure you have a tight shoe for good power transfer but a flying dismount is absolutely necessary.

I do hope you stay and enjoy all that ST has to offer and update this thread on December 7th with a race report.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

This is very valuable. Thank you. I am slow on a bike and I don't know why. My chiropractor said some muscle on my quad is exceptionally weak (so maybe that)

I got a p2, my good friend is a ex ironman and bike manager. He knows his shit but just keeps telling me to ride more. I am wondering when I'll have the time.

Yeah bonk was my fault. I forgot my gels and I lost a bottle on the first four km. So I had one bottle the whole way.

Well 5hours is the aim. It's relative as well. Of the conditions are bad for everyone then that time can increase. Basically.... I want top 10 in my age group and preferably top 3. (I know I won't get it deep down. I just refuse to accept it and believe people should aim high)

As for drafting? I thought that was banned haha

I feel like the run and swim and transition "could" be possible for me. But that ride looks mean (while giving me my run)

Basically. I have life insurance all set up in place.

I will collapse trying or I will smash my pb.

Troll much?

There’s a definitive dissatisfaction in having silly goals. It’s almost like an intentional personal handicap just so you can have an excuse if you miss it.

You’re going to have more fun setting realistic goals.

Try for cutting 30min off first, not 2 hours.

Read so much valuable info here. However, most people its about losing 30mins. Not an hour plus.

Your all good or u have trained well. I am a office worker who drives everywhere. I a an ex swimmer and I only started running three years ago (more like 2)

There are basic things that you all might know and I'm just missing.

The miles are 50km a week run. Yup, I've done 21-28km this week, I can build up to that.

8 plus hours on bike. No. I just don't have that sort of time. What specific bit is that time doing? Any hacks?

No... I should get a proper bike fit. My mat helps me online. But he even says get it done right.

Yeah, I can blank out and just run for around 5k. I'm trying to get past 10km and I just can't. I get to 8km and if it's faster than 5min k.. I just psychologically bitch out. I need to work on this through the winter.

My commute is by plane :-( but yes. I am hearing you all. More time on bike. I just need to do that without cutting into my sleep. While training, I can't go below 8 hours sleep (normally 5 is good)

Oh I will. Last year 70.3 was a joke. But when I say I'm going to do something.. I do it. This year I'm serious. I need to manage my time, work less and find my way there. I love triathlon, but I'm not going to do 70.3 forever, I just want to prove I can compete with people and then I'll chill out and do shorter lol

No value in a 6 hour 70.3 for me. Might as well not do it.

A sub 5hr at a home town qualifying race in that town won’t get you qualified unless you are over 65.

For example when the 703 was on the Sunshine Coast Australia you needed to do sub 435 in the men’s 40-44.

Not being an arse but you won’t qualify for the worlds in Taupo.

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It's doable. More likely to end up as 5:15 - 5:30 but that's still good.

Sort out your diet though. No point buggering around with ketones if your body really needs carbs. 70.3 is a fairly fast race so you're not just plodding along in a fat burning zone all day.

Sort your bike fitness out and a lot of that fitness will carry over to the run as well. Have a look at TrainerRoad. In 5 hours a week that will turn you into a pretty quick rider. A lot of people just do endless, unfocussed riding and wonder why they are still crap. Train properly and you'll get much much faster. You'll then get off the bike still in good shape for a 1:40 run.

You should be able to do this with 8-10 hours per week. Just learn to love getting up early and lunchtime runs. Don't forget to keep the family on side though and make sure you don't abandon them to "Dad's silly hobby".

You're either trolling or delusional.

You are likely the slowest person in this thread (which is allowed). You don't really seem to know much about what to prioritise or how to train (which is also permissible). The odd part is that you nevertheless think you're competent to estimate you're potential and talk like you're on the verge of contending for the podium. I think you need to stop dreaming quite so much and look at where you actually are. You are a good swimmer, possibly a poor cyclist (need to know the route and weather to judge fairly) and a mediocre runner. That sets you up for back of the pack now and probably middle of the pack without too much work.

It seems to me that while you say you're going to get to 5hrs or die trying, you seem to expect that to happen just because you said it. A keto diet will not make you fast, a chiropractor mentioning a weak muscle does not explain 7.5hrs in your last race, and saying you'll do it or die trying doesn't mean a damn thing. It's just words. Most people who actually have the mentality to put everything into it don't talk about it so much, they just do it! I agree with burnthesheep, your 5hr goal is silly and more likely to hold you back than be a motivator.

As of your last attempt you can't manage a 6hr 70.3. It sounds like you're not even close yet (although the course could be a big factor). And yet you're saying a 6hr 70.3 has no value. If you go out and do a 6hr 70.3 on a comparable course in the next year you should be delighted with it. Writing it off as too easy is ridiculous and childish at this stage. Perhaps you've spent too much time on the internet looking at what other people can do and not enough time training to see what you yourself can do?

The good news:

• Your transition times are terrible. Either the course had massive transition zones or you sat down for a rest and a bite to eat. Either way, you can save a huge chunk of time there incredibly easily.
• Your swim is good and that's often the hardest to improve.
• Your bike time is terrible compared to your swim. If you're fit enough to do that swim you shouldn't be that slow on the bike, unless it was a REALLY hilly course (maybe it is - I cycled through Taupo years ago and it's far from flat). With sane pacing and a flatter course you should be able to go much faster.

My advice:

• Decide what time you have available to train. No point saying you're going to become an elite triathlete if you don't have the time to even try.
• Stop worrying about ketones.
• Stop setting fanciful goal times that bear no resemblance to your current ability.
• Train, race, and keep getting fitter and faster. Your performances will tell you what you are capable of now and your progression will guide your expectations REALISTICALLY.

You might be able to get to a <5hr 70.3 in the next year or two. You might not.
Your chances are far, far better if you pick more incremental goals and you might actually enjoy triathlon that way, rather than seeing it as a distant all or nothing challenge which you may soon discover is a fantasy.

Just the level of criticism I need to keep the fire fuelled. I thrive on being told it's impossible.

Many people here have given good advice. It's clearly a consistency thing for cycling as oppose to the muscular endurance for running.

With information (which I asked for) I am able to change my plan to match. I.e I have swapped some things around for 6 hours of "basic" cycling a week. I will do a 90km time after this cycle of training.

Oh please. No-one said it was impossible ....and everything you say doesn't have to be macho cliched BS!

It's a consistency thing for both. In fact it's probably even more important for running .....and consistency is not opposed to endurance.

I literally talk this way for a living. I'm not going to change because it's bike riding and not money making.

Talk to you peeps in ten weeks.

Oh dear, that's a shame :(

Ok, so you're saying it's "in the realm of possibility" for him to go from a 35 min swim (which isn't bad) to a 27 just because he says so? I've swam over 1,000,000 yards in the past 18 months to go from a 31 min to 28 min swim. Second, realistic transitions are more like 1:30+ each for 70.3's. Third, he's going to drop over an hour on his bike while riding 6 hrs easy a week (bonk or not, his first 45km in his last race took 1:45 which equals a 3:30 split without bonk)? And then run a PB of 1:40 in the half marathon after a 2:50 last year (fast walking pace). All in 8 months? Like previously stated, that's fantasy world. He could eventually go under 5 hours but it'll take a few years to get there. Hopefully he can enjoy the process of improving and not get discouraged.

Please do. Whether this is trolling or delusion, it's entertaining either way.

Luckily for you, there is a 70.3 in Cairns in early June that would still qualify for worlds in NZ. You could train for Taupo and race it to see where you’re at. Then adjust workouts etc for an additional 5+ months of training to try at Cairns.

You indicated that your heart health might not be optimal. If I was in your situation my first stop would be a consultation with my cardiologist indicating my proposed fitness plan. Triathlon is a sporting activity, it’s not life or death. If you really view it that way I’d also recommend a consultation with a psychologist as well.

In terms of going sub 5 hours in 70.3, you’re at 7.5 hours now. That’s 2.5 hours and 1 second minimum you have to reduce. I’d look for easy time like transitions first. Second focus on bike and run. Your bike and run both need to come way down. What is your height and weight. That would give an idea of how out of shape you are and how much weight you need to drop to optimize performance. Getting your weight dialed in will also reduce the work load on your heart and other organs.

This. The competition for worlds slots in that area is going to be fierce. If you want one at the age of 32 you need to be looking at times around 4:10 or better.

not quite Ashely Horner level but this thread is fun.

Yep, gotta be trolling. His run PBs make no sense. That 5k pb is so out of line with everything else he has indicated. Either...

A. It's a total troll job.
B. He has zero endurance.
C. Stated PBs are years apart and are meaningless info.

Based on tone and all info provided, I'm assuming "A".

Can you hire Talbot or Ed Baker and start a youtube channel? This could be more entertaining than Ashley Horner

You are pulling our "collective" leg.

There are no hacks, bike more, run more, that's it. Saddle time and time on your feet, those are the only ways to build your bike/run endurance.

You are fat and slow, but at least your thread title is accurate.



Is this too much criticism? Or did I nail it?

Or you could skip this "Half Ironman" thing and go for the big prize of nailing a full Ironman - You can do those on willpower alone.

there must be a pill he can take /pink

Why shoot for sub 5? I think you could go sub 4:45 or sub 4:30 if you train 25 hours per week.

Did bonmak go to hbhs? 1.20 for 45 kms on bike and 20 mins for 5km make no sense in the context of the other times given. You should be waaay faster than what you say you are if you can do those times.

I'm a dead business consultant with no time for my widow/kids.

But I will die trying.

There fixed it for you

You actually need to post your name and links to your last race.

It wouldn’t hurt for a link to your Strava or Garmin file so you can be tracked.

But I’m guessing what will really happy is we will never hear from you again as the race gets closer.

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He did from the Taupo race.

I just checked his finisherpix. He’s not even worth a response until he drops 100lbs. Get real with your diet and perhaps you could manage a 6 hour 70.3 in this lifetime. From the looks of your pictures you weigh at least 250 to 275lbs. You won’t get faster until you fix your body composition. I’d start there. Start tracking calories on My Fitness Pal App. Maybe in 12 months you will be around a 6 hour 70.3. I’m not trying to be a dick, but give you a dose of reality. Set your goal but perhaps set benchmarks. Eating healthy and losing weight should be goal #1. You can train all you want but if you’re crushing pizza, ice cream, cakes and pies every night then you’re going nowhere fast.

Ok, my take on this thread is that it's the worst of all sides of ST. Firstly there's some pretty unrealistic expectation / self confidence. But then some unnecessarily snide and nonconstructive responses.

Some observations by someone who has dropped 30kg, has gone from 6hour+ halves to 4:42 including going from a 2:48run to a 1:41.
1) The T1 at Taupo is massive for everyone due to the distance between the sim exit and transition, including the staircase.
2) The bike is slow, no flat on the course, couple of climbs, but all false flat up and down, crappy/slow surface and normally a wind that increases meaning no help on the way out and then a headwind on the way back that's worse for the slower riders compared to the quicks.
3) Heat can also be a killer on the run for 'bigger' units. Again disproportionately so.

Ok. So I lost my weight very very quickly, even to the point that I ended up with a load of medical tests to rule out anything sinister. And with that weight loss came the increase in my run speed. So to be honest, then I can demonstrate that it is entirely possible to do what the OP is looking to do. However, the big difference was that I was doing this from a long term history of being a very strong cyclist. And it's all about the bike. So I was able to knock out a 2:20 bike @ 265w whilst just turning the legs over in 'warmup' mode. Hence could then run an all time half marathon PB on a course that had 6km of offroad and 2 sets of stair climbs.

So how could you meet your goals. Simple you dedicate yourself to the task. You get a good coach, and you work, then train, then eat, then sleep for the next 6 months until raceday. The only other option is to train, work eat and sleep to raceday. You cut out the crap, you train 20 hours a week on top of your work, and you don't eat any biscuits, don't take a cake slice with your lunch, don't drink cans of coke, etc. You instead eat good quality fresh foods, be that from salad bars or prepared at home. But when at work or travelling with work you stick to your plan. Indeed, you need to plan work around your training routine.

And you need to join a road cycling club, and do long saturday rides every week with them from now until august / september. You need that group around you to keep you challenged, and to push you each week. But your coach is likely to advise in detail how to ride this, but that regular 3-4 hour long ride without a stack of energy drink to fuel you will do you the world of good. Just need to get that right balance of being in calorie deficit, but not bonking to the point that you can't work.

Part of what you’re leaving out is the OP asking for lots of shortcuts. That doesn’t sound like somebody willing to put in the appropriate work to cut 2 hours off ones time.

As well as the OP is smack talking. 6 hour 70.3 isn’t even worth it? The guy finished almost dead last at his last race. He should show some respect for 6 hours when he’s not even close to that himself. It’s hard to respect someone like that or take them seriously.

Yikes! Make sure you have life insurance.

Yep theres going to be stiff competition, and 4:10 sounds about right.

If, if, you can make 5hrs, the March 2020 70.3 (same day as IM) might offer slightly better odds, but to be honest you're probably better off going to a Euro or an East Coast US 70.3 where the roll downs will go deeper.

Oh, and get a coach. I doubt Dan is available, but Sweat7 or MrSmith coaching might be accepting new people.

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Swim. Overbike. Walk.

given the info presented heretofore. And, given it's specific to this year.

The thread title sums it up correctly

Long term goals generally require that one enjoy the journey. Because, achieving a goal IS satisfying, but not as great as it's cracked up to be. So the journey should be enjoyable. Otherwise the journey won't last.

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

I generally agree. There are some one and done IM athletes who hate the journey but just want that tattoo. But that’s not so much a long term goal. I also have triathlete friends who really don’t like training but love that race day high that they keep doing them. That seems weird to me. If I didn’t at least mostly enjoy training I would stop doing triathlons. And then I have friends who refuse to do any triathlons even mildly hilly. It’s fine. Whatever we they enjoy. It’s just so different from how I approach things.

That is a very good point. I think if I stay motivated and my body can handle it and I come top 10-15? I think that's a great holiday to go for in June!! Thank you

I agree re weight. I'm 5ft 10.. 178cm. I am now 84kg :-( 8kg to go. I'm loosing this up front tbh. A lot easier.

Admit... Taupo transition, I was walking and then helped some people with their sunlotion. Was a fabulous day

I can't do that :-(

When I read your post it made me think of buying a lottery ticket.

Is it possible you win the lottery? Yes...
Is it likely? Absolutely not.

Bottom line - train for it like it is possible, report back on what you managed to achieve. Maybe you are blessed with amazing genetic potential (and amazing durability) and you will show us what is possible...

See, this is what I disagree with. Sub 5 hours is possible for most 30-35 year olds if they are dedicated enough with training. 4:10, less so, there is some natural advantage / disadvantage that will come to play there. So the issue here is if Michael wants to put the effort in to do the training required. And also to invest in the support needed to be able to do that training - coach, physio and massage.

Will he do it if he spends the next 3 months buying carbon tat and training gadgets whilst doing 4 hours a week? No. Is there anything in the posts on this thread to suggest that the commitment to do that training will happen. No, not at all.

But to claim it's a ridiculous target is false. It's not that crazy, the only slightly interesting thing is if he can self motivate to do it. I'd guess that in reality there will be a few posts of crash training, then some injury and then abandon race due to the injury, as opposed to the truth, that he didn't do the hard yards in conditioning now to provide the platform for the training in 3 months time.

In my mind, going from 7 hrs to 5 hrs in 3 months is optimistic.

FWIW, I am a 4h 30min HIM in the 40 - 44 AG. I have lived though my experience moving slowly up the performance curve.

Good luck

Isn't he aiming for 70.3 Taupo in December? So 7 months away?
3 months of dedicated base training, 4 months build

Thank you Duncan. I do not mind them presuming and not asking questions. It's more fun. You're comment is well constructed and I should be on a laptop to answer it correctly.

The heat in Taupo was crazy. I had burns so bad on my back, I was peeling for three weeks haha.

Goal was to finish. I finished. I was very happy and as someone who was 96kg and raced at 74kg. It's strange to be told I was still fat? Hmm Should I be below 70kg??? Gee whizz. No thanks. Surely low 70s is fine.

High level. I'm losing 8 more pkg going through the next 10 weeks and that leaves me 6 months.

I know there is going to be a trick to cycling. There always is

Yeah. Ride lots. Then ride some more. That means getting up at 4:30am to do 90 minutes on Zwift before work 2-3 times a week, and doing 4-5 hour rides on a saturday with the cycle club no matter what the weather. You want to meet your goal, suck it up buttercup. No short cuts, but if you don't make it then it's because you've decided not to do the sessions you needed.

Ignore the weight. Focus on the training and what you eat. Weight will just be what it will be as a result of the training and decisions you make about how to refuel.

Gotcha. 7 months more feasible.

Still an optimistic outcome but definitely better odds than a lottery ticket.

Recommend reading Alan Couzens (ex Endurance Corner). He gave some benchmarks on annual improvements.

As per request.... Daily vlog.

Hahaha nice I hope ur successful - and if you aren’t, then ur going to be faster for it anyway. Hope your ticket is ok though- good luck and let us know how u getting along

Shouldn't you be training instead of dicking around on YouTube? (Pink. Ish)

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Swim. Overbike. Walk.

I’m in for this ride and I wish you the best.

That's exactly how I think of it as well. Merci

I'm on holiday. I went for a walk today....should start training on Wednesday again.

I got a heap of good advice from you lot and a few others. I'm building up 'the plan'

#letsdothis culley22!!

I'm in for "The Cycling Trick THEY Don't Want You to Know".

It's PowerCranks, right?

It's not at all a ridiculous target for a male in his 30s. In fact 5:00 is probably on the slow side of what's possible, but is perfectly achievable with the right amount of training.

The part of this that is ridiculous is the OP's insistence on doing it within 3 months, dropping 2 hours from his previous time, and listing all the reasons why it's obvious he won't be able to get the training in that is necessary to achieve that goal.

This. As I posted before, there are no hacks, you need to put in the time, on the bike and on your feet.

As someone who has lost 40kg and kept it off for over six years, time and consistency, that's all you need. Train consistently, watch what you eat consistently. I'm faster/stronger now at 84kg than I was at 78kg (my lowest when I was solely focused on weight loss), it's not always just about the scale.

All I've found out is
1. Ride everywhere
2. Get a bike fit
3. Ride everywhere

I'm sure there is something else. Until I find a study to disprove this. Then it's ride ride ride

Where did I mention I was racing in three months :-)

And so if the majority of people are telling you the same thing, you think there might be something to it?

You're getting grief because you're looking for a magic bullet when there is none. Ride a lot. Run a lot. Do this for a long time.

Yes they have a lens. A bias. They review this as the magic bullet because of their own views and life. I appreciate that.

However, what they fail to understand. When you have a lot of experience and someone comes along with zero. There is basics you can help them with for mass benefits.

For instance. None of you have mentioned hills, HIIT, tempo or planned endurance increases.

So I get that YOU got for doing years of riding.

BUT... What can someone who didn't even ride a bike as a kid... Do. To learn how to ride.

:-)

And a few of you answered that. Very good feedback.

Bike fit. Right bike. Ride more (which is actually advice)

However, I still want the philological reason for this. Its not vo2, it's just bike muscle endurance? Ok. So which muscles? How much flexibility? Does it have to be open road? Inside? Does running help at all or not? I mean fark there is a lot of questions

But I don't need them answered until I am riding 100km again

OK 7. I think I got the 3 from someone else.

The post still applies :)

Nobody is suggesting these things because of this:


You don't have nearly enough "base" of cycling experience and endurance to start really working any high intensity stuff. "Just Ride" for the next year or so is probably the best thing you can do. Ride a lot. Ride at least 4 days a week. At least an hour at a time. Long on weekends. Come back after a summer of that and we can talk about building more "interesting" cycling training.

We're all aware of the context of your question. The lens you describe is one of experience. Despite your insistence, you're getting good advice.

I will give you this though. I don't think you're trolling anymore. I think you're just utterly delusional. Not for having lofty goals, but for insisting that there's some secret that absolutely everybody has missed, but you'll somehow find it. Based on what you've posted, I don't think you're willing to put in the work. Good luck with all of that.

And I disagree.

I HAVE coached people from 44min swims to 32mins in 7 weeks.

I HAVE improved my running. Just from running properly and doing a progressively longer long run once a week.

There WILL be an 80:20 rule for cycling. That will see me do sub 90mins. But because you all find it EASY. you dont realize, its a simeple technique or layer of muscle. I will find it.

I will personally get down on my knees and worship your genius when you do a sub 90min 70.3 ride*




*note this offer expires in 2021 when they introduce the e-bike category.

And note that don't find cycling easy. It's just that after decades of constant riding, including 2 hours a day of hilly commute at hard pace everyday for 3 years, then on top of my natural advantage of huge lungs, my hard work lets me ride quicker than most. Despite all that, it takes me about 8-10 hours of riding a week to maintain that, split between high intensity, low intensity and my weekly 150km ride. Honestly, amongst all of the cyclists / triathletes I know, including over 50 that I have good visibility of the training, and there are non that are significantly quicker than me with less training. Some are definitely faster, but they train more hours and have made better kit choices. Some train a lot less than me, and are either a little bit slower, or a lot slower. And this includes some really switched on coaches.

Unlike swimming and running, then your feet are fixed to the pedals and so there's not the technique options that the other disciplines have. You can pedal piston and not round, that will slow you down. You can use the wrong cadence, that will slow you down. You can stand and rock the bike side to side instead of staying seated with the bike upright, that'll slow you down. But aside from that, it's down to cardio, core strength and leg strength in that order. No short cut to the first one. The last one comes as a result of doing the work for the first one. And whilst 90% of the field won't do the core strength, they also won't realise how they are compromising their cycling, and also won't go sub 2h30 (I'm assuming that's what you mean't, not 90min).

Been a good read. I’d rather you do a new thread each month with an update.

Good luck with it. Either way tipping you’ll pb your next 703

---

I don't find cycling easy I don't know anyone who does.

If you are looking for the trick its this structured workouts and consistency.

This year after 3-4 years of 3 hour HIM bike splits I bought myself a powermeter, got on trainer road and been super consistent with 3-4 sessions on the bike every week and all of them structured with a purpose and I have gone from less than 3 watts/kg to almost 4. But if you think you are going to get there with a couple of weeks you are as others have said utterly deluded.

And I disagree.

I HAVE coached people from 44min swims to 32mins in 7 weeks.

I HAVE improved my running. Just from running properly and doing a progressively longer long run once a week.

There WILL be an 80:20 rule for cycling. That will see me do sub 90mins. But because you all find it EASY. you dont realize, its a simeple technique or layer of muscle. I will find it.[/quote]Swimming is about technique first and foremost. You can go much faster with the same effort just by doing it right.

Running is technique, CV fitness and durability. You can go faster with similar effort by doing it right, you need to build up to distance.

Cycling is almost entirely a product of power output. technique is not really much off a factor. You turn the pedals and the bike goes forward - there's not a lot of variation in how you do this once you've done even a very moderate amount of cycling.
The only easy gain is drag reduction. Aerodynamics being by far the biggest element of drag at reasonable speeds. Aerodynamic drag is primarily dictated by your size and position on the bike (so bike fit may help), clothing and equipment make a smaller but still relevant difference. Rolling resistance can easily be dealt with by using reasonable quality low resistance tyres. Get latex tubes and GP5000 tyres and forget about that entire topic until you're worrying about the last few seconds.

So there's no "trick" in cycling. Increase your ability to produce power by training and reduce areas where it's wasted by minimising drag.

Lololol got confused between 90km and 90mins :-)

Im personally thinking (now im home with my white board)

This looks do able.

Swim 30mins
Bike 3 hours
Run 1:45
Transitions 15mins

So. I need to shave off 30mins from the ride.... bloody cycling

Core strength you say? Im told my core strength is a baby girls. Would that be a factor? How do you develop core? Just loads of sub threshold cycling?

I can barely push 150 watts. I dont understand why. My max speed tends to me 35kph and I can hold 33 for like an hour and 30 for close to 3 hours. For the life of me, i dont see how people do 40kph.

At least with running, i can sprint sub 3min k pace (not for a km)... but at least I can do it.

I only ever see 40kph downhill

Swimming is about technique first and foremost. You can go much faster with the same effort just by doing it right.

Running is technique, CV fitness and durability. You can go faster with similar effort by doing it right, you need to build up to distance.

Cycling is almost entirely a product of power output. technique is not really much off a factor. You turn the pedals and the bike goes forward - there's not a lot of variation in how you do this once you've done even a very moderate amount of cycling.
The only easy gain is drag reduction. Aerodynamics being by far the biggest element of drag at reasonable speeds. Aerodynamic drag is primarily dictated by your size and position on the bike (so bike fit may help), clothing and equipment make a smaller but still relevant difference. Rolling resistance can easily be dealt with by using reasonable quality low resistance tyres. Get latex tubes and GP5000 tyres and forget about that entire topic until you're worrying about the last few seconds.

So there's no "trick" in cycling. Increase your ability to produce power by training and reduce areas where it's wasted by minimising drag.[/quote]
This is good. Now how do you increase ability to produce power?

This is good. Now how do you increase ability to produce power?[/quote]You train.

There's more than one way to go about it this. Some are surely better than others, and some are more time intensive than others, but none of them are an easy magic bullet.

I'm the same height as you and was between 80-84kg for the last few years (I've since gained a bit - I blame the new baby). My 20min max power has been 305W (I use 95% of that as FTP so 290W most of last year- I suspect 90% might be more accurate for me). I was capable of bike splits around 2:30 on relatively flat routes with an okay, but not great, position. I reckon I should be able to go faster with less by working on my position and clothing.

I routinely do two 60-80min sessions on the trainer with Zwift on weekday evenings and one longer ride at the weekend. The longer ride could be anything from 2hrs to 5hrs depending on time of year, planned race distance, and whether I'm focusing on riding or running (I rarely focus on swimming - terrible huh?). The two midweek sessions are usually aimed at spending long durations close to threshold power and/or shorter periods around VO2max. I like a bit of variety so I'll sometimes do group rides or races that have me doing long periods 45-75mins at perhaps 80-88%FTP with occasional surges. Most will use a slightly higher figure as "sweetspot" training intensity (around 90%FTP). Other times I'll do short hill climbs at VO2max intensities using the Zwift terrain for reference. Or I'll do a structured workout like 2x20mins @93-95%FTP with a 3-5min recovery.
The weekend ride will be easier intensity but not easy.

When I was training for long distance cycling only events, I added 4th or even 5th (easier intensity) sessions and pushed up the duration of the 3 standard rides. The other two disciplines were sacrificaed for this but I made gains which I could hold onto later after ramping the volume back down.

You can't do everything at once, and this is especially true if you're time restricted as most of us are.
A lot will depend on your age, your mentality and your bodies ability to recover and resist injury. You're young enough. I think your mentality will let you down based on what you're saying here. You won't know what your body can handle until it doesn't handle it!

Your agreement isn't required for something to be true.

This adds up to 5:30

First off, if you are spending 15 minutes in transition you are doing something deeply wrong. Transitions, even if there is a longish run from swim to the bike racks, should never be more than a few minutes. I would work on your transitions such that you are only spending a total of 5 minutes in there.

You will need to get your cycling down closer to the 2:45 range, and your run down under 1:40

Step 1: as yourself, are you rich? if so, buy the latest and greatest $10k triathlon bike - probably worth 15 minutes right there! Cuts out hours and hours of training.
Step 2: As others have mentioned, aside from step 1 (which is a joke), just ride. Sounds like you're at the stage where intervals and other "structured" training is irrelevant. Ride every single day for an hour for a month. Sometimes harder, sometimes less hard, just ride. See what happens (you'll get faster, I guarantee it). You probably need 2,000-3,000 miles of base training.

Your ability to get the run to a decent place will be a function of your bike training. Just ride more.

Not sure when your next HIM is but just try our advice and see what happens.

Weekly goals:

7,500 yards swimming (basic maintenance)
250 miles biking
20 miles running (basic maintenance)

Good luck!

Perhaps he is actually absorbing some advice and dialing the goal down to something more sensible/doable with 5:30.

Just to add, a quick look at Taupo times and a good target for T1 would be 3:30 to 4:30 and T2 0:45-1:30 so basically 5 minutes combined would be stellar but even 6 should be doable with some practice.

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

When your legs push down two things happen. 1, your pedals go down and second your core stops your spine rotating in the opposite direction. Discredited drug cheat armstrong pointed out that if his legs were the springs that powered him, then his core was the girder that they attached to. How do you develop core. Few ways, but 2-3 pilates classes a week for me. Good for flexibility, glutes, etc etc.

And before slagging Pilates off for being a 'girls' thing. You may want to read up on who Joseph Pilates was.....

You train.

There's more than one way to go about it this. Some are surely better than others, and some are more time intensive than others, but none of them are an easy magic bullet.

I'm the same height as you and was between 80-84kg for the last few years (I've since gained a bit - I blame the new baby). My 20min max power has been 305W (I use 95% of that as FTP so 290W most of last year- I suspect 90% might be more accurate for me). I was capable of bike splits around 2:30 on relatively flat routes with an okay, but not great, position. I reckon I should be able to go faster with less by working on my position and clothing.

I routinely do two 60-80min sessions on the trainer with Zwift on weekday evenings and one longer ride at the weekend. The longer ride could be anything from 2hrs to 5hrs depending on time of year, planned race distance, and whether I'm focusing on riding or running (I rarely focus on swimming - terrible huh?). The two midweek sessions are usually aimed at spending long durations close to threshold power and/or shorter periods around VO2max. I like a bit of variety so I'll sometimes do group rides or races that have me doing long periods 45-75mins at perhaps 80-88%FTP with occasional surges. Most will use a slightly higher figure as "sweetspot" training intensity (around 90%FTP). Other times I'll do short hill climbs at VO2max intensities using the Zwift terrain for reference. Or I'll do a structured workout like 2x20mins @93-95%FTP with a 3-5min recovery.
The weekend ride will be easier intensity but not easy.

When I was training for long distance cycling only events, I added 4th or even 5th (easier intensity) sessions and pushed up the duration of the 3 standard rides. The other two disciplines were sacrificaed for this but I made gains which I could hold onto later after ramping the volume back down.

You can't do everything at once, and this is especially true if you're time restricted as most of us are.
A lot will depend on your age, your mentality and your bodies ability to recover and resist injury. You're young enough. I think your mentality will let you down based on what you're saying here. You won't know what your body can handle until it doesn't handle it![/quote]
This is great thanks, added to my pad. The recover issue will be ajother thread on hacking that when I reach the point haha

Oh I agree the numbers dont add up. Hence I came on here :-)

Swim 30
Bike 2:45
Run 1:40
Transitions 5mins (its over a km mind you)

Ok. These are cool goals. Thanks

I did the calcs on my bike and the best legal bikes and it was around 10mins. I think wheels and helmet will give me 5mins and ill be happy with that.

So thats
Swim 8km (yup thats fine)
Bike 400km.... what in the living fuck... thats like 20 hours a week at a slow pace
32km (im building up to 50 atm)

Thanks for this. Great thing is, I can pop up there and practice every few months. Will try and get around the 5min mark... instead of walking.

Yup will add pilates and yoga into my weekly sessions. This is great.

Yeah, I'd ignore that advice to aim for 400km cycling a week with a ride every day. That's just silly for anyone with a life, and not necessarily advantageous.
I consider that I can do pretty well on 1/3 of that. Half would be very decent going during a bike focus block. But I'll average 30-33km/h for shorter sessions so that's 4 to 6hrs cycling with a good proportion at intensity.

You're better thinking in terms of time rather than kilometers or you'll probably end up getting tempted into making up the distance on easier routes.

Get a good coach and train like you want it. With zero swim/bike/run experience I did 5:30 4 months in, 4:45 1 year in, 4:29 2 years in and chasing 4:10 in 3 weeks.

Looks like I can give 6 hours so far a week to cycling. Just need to move things around more.

Nice one bro. What sort of hours were you puttin in? Any particular sessions had a higher ROI?

I love how on this site you guys love to crunch the numbers. I try talking stats with ppl IRL and otherwise and they just don't care.

I have some numbers you can chew on...

I'm 39, 6' 1", 88.5kg max HR 200, HM 1:19

Kinetic Rock and Roll Trainer. Never used power outside.

Coming up on 2 years of consistent training on top of lifetime of above average fitness.

-Dec 1, 2018: 5.5 months ago got hooked up on Zwift. Three days in completed first ever FTP test at 308. (20 min)

-Dec 18, 2018: made hard KOM attempt and bumped FTP to 312 (20 min within workout)

-Jan 5, 2019: Bumped FTP up to 330 in Tour Du Zwift race as per Zwift Power info (whole race avg)

-Jan 21, 2019: Bumped FTP up to 340 in TDZ race as per ZP info (whole race avg)

-Mar 18, 2019: Made hard effort on ADZ and new PR of 50:09
(bummed because ZP does not give info outside of race but I know I went hard)

-May 7, 2019: Made hard effort on Epic KOM, 22:43, new FTP bumped to 348 (20 min at 367 within workout)
Puts me right at cusp of 4w/kg (3.95 so close!)


22 weeks of training since having Zwift :

-930 miles on Zwift plus 320 outside. (1250 miles/22 weeks = 56 miles a week on bike) gained 40 watts

In conjunction with running and bike training with all three combined weekly average of 5.25 hours. (2-14 hour weeks)

I smoke weed and drink beer everyday, this may or may not help.

#SmokeWeedEveryday

Thanks for this and yes I am ordering a smart trainer soon to get into the swift life.

The biggest question that everyone on this number crunching board will want to ask...how are you measuring power on the bike?

---

Not everything is as it seems -Mr. Miyagi

[/quote]

The biggest question that everyone on this number crunching board will want to ask...how are you measuring power on the bike?[/quote]
Kinetic Smart trainer has bluetooth and is communicating with Zwift...?

Kinetic Smart trainer has bluetooth and is communicating with Zwift...?[/quote]

I foresee a big branch about to happen in this thread...

Key in the context of this thread is that you have quantified an improvement in your power, and that's great. There is probably a bit of a debate that can/will be had about the absolute numbers using the measuring approach you have, but that's, in the context of this thread, not vital. You've used specific Zwift sessions over a fairly short period to get markedly faster on the bike in less than 6 hours a week.

Doesn't matter if you've gone from 300 to 340watts FTP or 200-240 here, so the accuracy of the zwiftpower approximation isn't critical

Oh man, I don't want cause trouble! lol

What do they say ," Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic ."

That is where I am with it. I plugged all the parts together , don't recall a calibration process. Turned the cranks and numbers popped up on the screen. Told Zwift my weight, off to the races. Seems on par with riders nearby whether I'm going hard or easy, you know when you can look over and see the little watt numbers on the screen floating in front of their bike. Yes I know their weight is unknown.

I can't for the life of me figure how it is counting cadence though. Where is the sensor watching my legs turn over or is it detecting subtle release and return of power with in stroke? What if my leg stroke was perfect 360 degree power input?

Here is more detailed weekly hour break down which might explain low average number:

The first block all Zwift hours

W1: 3:30
W2: 4
W3: 1:50
W4: 3
W5: 2:45
W6: 4:45

This next block all Zwift hours but also mostly Tour Du Swift hours, so low numbers, high effort

W7: 2
W8: 3:45
W9: 4:15
W10:5

Started running again in this block on top of Zwift

W11: 5:20
W12: 4:50
W13: 6:10
W14: 3:30
W15: 8:30
W16: 5
W17: 7:15

Went to Hawaii during this block. Lots of mean vertical in the heat

W18: 7:20
W19: 7:30
W20: 14
W21: 6.5
W22: 10:45

Back to Alaska

W23: 5

Right now 4 hours into week. Most recent FTP last night

what are your half ironman times/speed on the bike/run? on what course? I hear power numbers bandied about on this site and dont put much thought into them unless its backed up with how fast they actually are. Thats not having a go or anything, just curious.

Not asked of me, but 255w average gave me a 2:20 HIM split (flat course good surface) where I ran a 1:42, albeit that course included 6km of trail and 2 sets of stairs. 225w average for IMNZ which is hilly and crappy chipseal gave me a 5:20 split. Had gastric issues in final 10km but up to that on for a 3:45 run split. 85kg on race days, down from 109kg just over a year earlier. 1.92cm tall. No attempt at all to be aero so sky high resistance.

I've never done any IM. Did one of these 'extreme triathlons' last summer but those numbers all over the place.

2.7 cold water swim 1:20
Bike 115 miles with 4500 vert, 6:20 (bought used road bike 2 weeks prior)
run 27 with 6000 vert 7 hr

not too applicable considering wild terrain.

5k 17:30
10k 37:45
half marathon 1:19

Thats all I have as far as 'recognized events' go. I'm new to Tri and love the excuse to exercise. Most my history in mountain races.

Is that 4500ft?
If so, that's a pretty average bike leg. Less elevation than I remember from Austria and that's not considered a particularly tough bike leg. Considering your training power figures 6:20 seems relatively slow, but then FTP estimates based on shorter training sessions doesn't tell you everything about your ability to produce power and maintain a good position over long periods. It doesn't tell you anything about your ability to ride after the swim, or how much you were holding back for the run. Nor, does it indicate what the weather or your aerodynamics and tyre choice were like for that race.

The gym bike tells me I produce 106 watts of power when cycling :-)

Cool good to know, I really had no idea about pacing, did it without HR monitor or power meter. Did it on a road bike I bought 2 weeks prior having never been a road bike before that. (1000's of hours on a DH bike though lol)

I do know that I punched too hard on climbs and took too many breaks (6). I would pass a group of people, then they would pass me while I was stopped and was eating and then I would pass them again, several times over. Real up and down effort. Then 3 miles into run portion while still on flat terrain, the wheels fell completely off. Sad bonk time for many hours thereafter.

I'm hoping this year to take an hour off the bike time with better tactics and fitness and then I guess hang on for dear life on the run again...? But that is generally seen as bad tactic. Maybe take 30 min off bike and save it for the run...?

Holy smokes, so many variables!

I was thinking sometime in the next week to do a hard TT effort on a half IM stretch of highway. Gotta get some base numbers to work off of.

Edit: I just looked back at my training log and in the 10 weeks prior to race I logged 350 miles. Lots of 25 mile days. Longest in that period was 48. Longest ever before that was about 1998 when I did 52.

Dang I need to get some volume up.

Yeah, volume at a single session is my killer. I'm doing a 2 hour indoor train atm... So bored

Ha, I'm supposed to be digging through new set of building plans to prep for breaking ground next week and here I am digging though Internet looking up stats for workouts that I don't have time to do!

Its a goddamn aerobic sport! Riding ~32-33kmh required 200w at most, the actual muscular force involved in that at 90rpm is something a 90 year old could exert, you could do it with your arms! There's no technique, you just need to get enough oxygen to your muscles so they can keep repeating that small force for 3hrs. Do you know how you do that? You ride your bike not too easy, hard only 10-20% of the time. There's a hack for you.

---

Professional Athlete: http://jordancheyne.wordpress.com/ http://www.strava.com/athletes/145340

Coaching Services:http://www.peakformcoaching.com/

IMNZ chipseal is harsh. And it's usually windy. 5:20 is a good time. But I would not call it a hilly course.

It's odd. I'd have sworn after 5 years away that it was a flat course with 2 climbs until I went back before last year to do a training tide and couldn't find the 'flat' bit anywhere on the 90km loop! You're right, total elevation isn't that much, but it's the lack of any flat that made me say hilly - certainly compared to the spirit level flat Tauranga Half course for example. Anyway, was a bit of a side discussion and as usual it's all shades of grey with descriptions.

Context of this thread : Put some time into riding and you'll get faster. No matter how smart you try being, if you don't man-up (person-up?) then you are going to be struggling. If the training was easy then we'd call it Ironraceforlife.

This is what it looks like when you almost die trying. Chris Leigh when he had part of his small intestine removed after the race in an emergency surgery.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TyYkKkLRAec/url]


After kids and many they nags getting in the way of training, I have finally realized that even when I took training more serious than most things in my life- the day after the race I went back to work and nobody gave a crap about my time. I was till the same guy.

It’s great to have goals. Just make them realistic and don’t truly die trying. It isn’t THAT important.

On a productive note regarding your goals, your swim is plenty quick- how about backing off a notch as the swim rarely will win a race. I bet if you swam a 30 instead of a 27, you would make up a hell of a lot more time on the bike. I was taught to slowly build through each segment of the race, but also build the entire race. Effort should be the hardest the last 5k or so of a 70.3. I’m still trying to be able to actually run the entire run in a 140.6. That’s my goal, instead of worrying about overall time. It seems like you blew the bike on the last race. Just concentrate on stacking the events productively and worry about overall time later. It will come in time.

Makes me remember a ride with a friend of mine I have known for 30 years. We met bmx racing at the track when we were kids. We have ridden bikes forever. We were at the top of a climb on a road ride and we saw a tremendous view. We stopped, soaked it in for about 5 min as we talked a bit. He said- I wish more people rode bikes and realized getting in shape is a side effect, but not really why you do it. I agreed.

It’s a lifetime love my man. I wouldn’t think of not doing a half Ironman and calling it a waste of time if I did it in 6 hrs. Hell, now I do half Ironman races just to get a race in before Ironman and I do the entire half at IM pace and just enjoy it. Time doesn’t even matter to me, I just want to know how I feel at the finish line as a guide for the upcoming full IM.

I have some clients who say that nothing under a million is worth it for them... I could say enjoy the 400k, but that's not their goal and its wrong of me to put me lens on them without permission.

I just see no value in a 6. I wouldn't train anywhere enough. I need a goal unattainable.

5 is easily attainable.

Just not by you with the amount of effort you are prepared to put into training. #harshbutfair

7 hours last week
8 hours this week.

It won't be the effort I've put in.

I'm guessing these clients already have plenty money and it's about prioritisation of resources. It's also business. Plus I don't care what they think. If they're irrational/dishonest/childish/immoral or otherwise about how they assign value, that doesn't have any bearing on how I see things.
Regardless, this analogy is not appropriate to the value you place on time in a race, unless you are racing for money and the payback on a 6hr+ time isn't great enough for you. The only reason to race is because you want to. You decide on the goal. There is no objective value in a 6hr 70.3 race time, or any faster time, unless you're a pro. The fact you've selected a time way above your ability and are being extremely dismissive of performances you cannot achieve yourself come across as very naive and childish IMO. In addition your language in the thread has been quite macho and hyperbolic which I find makes it very hard to take you seriously. It comes across as either insincere or foolish. I reckon this is why you are getting the responses you are, and I think they're justified..

If you beat 6hrs will you then say any improvement that doesn't beat 5hrs is similarly worthless? This is an unrealistic approach to racing (and life).

Perfectly said.

Unless- I need new goals.

Become a billionaire in 5 years

Retire with a harem of women waving bay leaves on me as I sit by the pool with a butler to fetch me drinks.

Qualify for IM Hawaii and win it, as an amateur.

There. I did it. Now I can train harder because anything less than this is pointless.

It is interesting that you swing between agreeing with me and back to your way or the high way. If there was absolute answers, we wouldn't need to gather other people's view and test them.

I say again. It is irrelevant what you value to me and I to you. I understand what you are saying but you won't just accept that for me... A 6 won't make me happy and I'm not going to do something that doesn't make me happy.

Value is not money.

What does this mean? Are you suggesting there's something strange about me agreeing with some things you say while disagreeing with others? I'm neither with you nor against you. I'm engaging in a conversation and considering each point on it's merits. Are you trying to dumb it down to good guys and bad guys or something?

You've lost me again. There are absolute answers to some things and not to others, but I don't now what you're trying to get at here.

Like I said previously, there is no objective value in any specific time. I think we agree on that. But you are arbitrarily choosing 6hrs as the time you must beat or it's worthless. I'm specifically criticising this decision, and it is a decision. You select your goal. You can be happy with >6hrs if you wish. It's your choice. If you think it's not, then I doubt there's any time that will make you happy. While a specific time may be a nice notional target, and I've had them myself, the fact is they fail to take too much into account. But even if we were to agree time was a good enough way to determine ability, dismissing a standard already way above you is a recipe for disillusionment and failure, plus it's insulting to many who are already better at this than you.

I think that was my point! See my previous post regarding your investment analogy.

Perhaps...maybe...triathlon isn’t for you.

Then again, you can approach this sport however you choose .

Just remember, you get out triathlon only what you put into it.

When you finally achieve your goal ( I think you will), you might find it to be an empty victory, of sorts.

Best of luck. May the injury bug NOT find you!

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Not everything is as it seems -Mr. Miyagi

Lets be honest you managed less than a week of vlogging before packing it in, you haven't got the determination to do this nor the athletic background. You throw anecdotes and phrases like they mean anything. They don't.

Oh boy...

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Oh man, I couldn't agree with you more. I try and do this almost every long ride. Find a beautiful view, stop for a few minutes, have a chat/coffee/snack for 15 minutes. It's not going to take anything out of my training if the ride is 4+ hrs long, and man biking has brought me to some beautiful places!
The same on runs over 15kms, although there the stops are usually a much shorter.

The triathlon journey for me has been a 3 year process till I got to my first HIM this year. And while I'm looking forward to the races, it's the training and friends that I made along the way that I enjoy most.
I'm here 50% just to be outside (this includes running in the Canadian winter), 30% stress relief from my day job as a trader, and 20% for results in a race. Getting fit just happened along the way. If I don't hit my target times, I'll at least be 80% happy :)

Completely understand that others have different priorities, and that is their prerogative. It allows me to enjoy the 360 days of the year that I'm training, as much as the 5 days a year that I'm racing.

It makes me remember this joke:

The lion cub and his Dad or sitting on the cliff staring into the prairie of lionesses. The cub is excited and says- Dad, let’s run down and screw one of those lionesses! The Dad says, no son- let’s walk down and screw them all.

Kids- some just don’t learn what life is about or how to approach things with wisdom! Lol

I said on the last video that it'll go weekly now. (Which reminds me to upload)

Honestly.. There is nothing to say daily. Every week now is just the same with a light increase.... Duncan said it needs to build up to 20 hours. So it's building up to 20 hours.

I can't see what else I can talk about in this forum.

A couple of you know how to read and they are valuable assets in a transformation and have given some great feedback.

The rest of you just seem like losers to be fair. Can't see outside your slim world view.

1. I never said I wouldn't do 20 hours a week for 8 months.
2. I never said I wanted it easy. I said I wanted it smart
3. I have already found three hacks on the bike.
I) bike fit
II) using a better fluid motion so that your pulling up and down on pedals
III) greater zone 2 workouts to build a bigger base

Then I am unsure on the points you are saying. If you agree value is not money and its subjective, then you can agree that 6 is not valuable to me and therefore I want to train for five.

I am Uber jealous of people who love biking. I am uncomfortable and bored. Maybe cos I live in a really or maybe cos I don't have the right mind for it.

Why do it then?
Seriously, if you don't like cycling, do run/swim events.

At the core of your posts is one common element - you want to achieve a time but you don't seem interested in the race, or perhaps even the sport. You want to know the secret that makes it all easy so you can be great. You want to skip right to the bit where you finish well. There's a lot of cycling between where you are and what you think you want. Have fun!

I always love cycling, mostly love running, and find swimming satisfying when I get into it but don't love it. Thus I don't train a whole lot for the swim. But that's okay. I can live with my slow swims and the knock on effect for the rest of the race. I do more duathlons than triathlons because that's what I like best.

Says the guy ignoring the advice of most people who know what they're talking about and looking for hacks and shortcuts.

Couple of pro tips to be helpful.

1. Your weekly training hours should probably exceed the length of your race time.
2. Your FTP should be above your weight.
3. You shouldn't bag on 6 hour HIM's until you can actually do one. Your 4 hour HIM bike split doesn't give you reason to have such arrogance.

1. My goals are my own
2. Asking for the 80:20 is not easy. Don't be ridiculous.
3. In New Zealand there isn't many options and I thoroughly enjoy the race, not the bike training for 4 hours.

I am extremely surprised at the idea of "just train". Surely none of you are coaches???? I mean are we saying that triathlon coaches completely miss the psychological factors around motiavtional theory, game play and incremental success?? I mean fark, " just train" is about as useful as "go earn money" and "just work hard... Ur make it"

Ridiculous.

Sorry for finally losing my temper but its getting tiresome. You do u boo.

Me? I'm scaling up to 20 hours a week. I've decided to work part time so I can scale up to 20 hours like Duncan said.

I'm not ignoring. I'm challenging it as it doesn't line up
1. Training hours would only be 7 hours. I think 10 hours is about right, but I need significantly more base level, so will be scaling up to 20, thank you for this input
2. I assume u mean in pounds? As my FTP is above 80 :-)
3. If YOU took that its bagging. Then it's a problem on your side. I can't earn a billion but i also don't value that as a goal...

for someone in such desperate need to find a shortcut to success I can’t believe you haven’t considered the biggest shortcut. Just go on the Armstrong training program- HGH, epo, testosterone. You’ll reach your goal in no time, without all that hard work. Sure you could find someway to justify

Is this legit? I do not see any logic that would mean it would help at such a low training fitness?

Would testosterone help in recovery? So I can train more thou? That would work.

I was tempted to trial creatine loading once I lose the remaining weight

PED's and creatine are probably exactly what you're missing.

I tried creatine back in 12th grade for weight lifting purposes. Noticed results just a couple weeks in... went hard one day and blew my left pec out. As in, all of the cells burst and my pec became a tit for like three weeks. Sore as heck, soggy full of water tit.

What the fook haha

I use creatine to maximise my lifts and my HIIT training. I wonder if beta a mixed with creatine during the next stage would be good to increase vo2 just that little bit extra.

Then drop creatine to reduce water weight and keep beta a

Yeah blood doping is an awesome endurance "hack". Im surprised Ben Greenfield or Dave Asprey or Joe Rogan haven't given you that as part of your 80:20 lifestyle design for triathlon. Its would say 80 minutes at the blood bank or anti aging clinic would help you 20% faster.

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Professional Athlete: http://jordancheyne.wordpress.com/ http://www.strava.com/athletes/145340

Coaching Services:http://www.peakformcoaching.com/

Pause - rewind.

I didn't *quite* say that. I stated what I was doing for the 6-8 months between starting training and completing in 4:42. So there's a bit of a difference to saying you need to train 20 hours, but to be honest let's keep it simple and assume we're about that.

But the key is consistency. And to be able to be consistently doing 15-20 hours a week you need to be doing a lot more sessions than you are - don't need to all be long at this stage, but you need to establish a base of consistency in training that gives you 4 sessions of each per week. And a couple of additional strength / stretch given your age and current condition.

Legit is actually how ridiculous this thread is. Even when “legit” triathletes are giving you serious and well detailed advices on how get closer to your goal you just confirm over and over again that you don’t want to put the work and hours needed because you want the “smarter” way and on the first doping bait you say you would actually consider it. I guess quicker is smarter, so why not, right? Ohhh, and BTW signing up to a triathlete forum and share that you don’t understand how people can enjoy cycling as you find it really boring, but still you want to do a half Ironman in <5 hours just to prove you can (and probably make the majority of the forum look like losers), doesn’t sound as a smart move.
I mean, everybody can post and comment but this is not a thread that belongs to ST, IMHO.

Once I get an indoor trainer for swift, I think it'll help with the over two hour sessions.

I can't go gung-ho. I need to build up slowly.

But yeah 15-20 hours 90% of the weeks seems plausible

After reading about the zone two training. It makes a lot more sense around the build part you said a few weeks ago. I'm doing everything in zone 2 at the moment and eventually 17 hours zone 1-2 and 3 hours 4-5

Since you can not read, your advice is not wanted or needed.

Can't be hung ho
Need to build up slowly
Haven't ridden bike this year.
Decide to do 2 hour ride plus running while doing a water fast..
Doesn't make sense..

There are lot of smart people in here and a lot of them have achieved what you want to and yet you dismiss much of their advice.. you seem to think you know more than people who have more experience than which clearly isn't the case..

If I lived in wanganui I'd be the same way im sure...

Can we stop feeding the troll please, especially if they are from Wanganui....https://www.facebook.com/.../?type=3&theater

I asked a simple question and got the answer I wanted from three mature adults.

The rest of the kids can not read, debate and clearly do not under the science of WHY they do what they do.

Probably just losers who have very little going on in their life, have finally achieved something average and now want to mock anyone coming along.

I have above average knowledge in swimming and can give anyone rough guidelines to their goals. That's all most people want for motivation... They want to create goals that have metric to work off of. To see incremental success.

It's literally the most basic question you would get on here.

"Where is the biggest bang for buck"

If your race is less than 3 months away... It's in HIIT training (proven by meta analysis on vo2 max increases dramatically increasing over sow and steady.

However, as two of you pointed out.... It's 8 months away. A build phase at zone 2 to create larger long term health would be advantageous

Cycling is three things above 5mins.
1. The ability to transfer oxygen and fuel into energy and carbon dioxide
2. The power to push and pull the pedals (yes none of you told me I'm meant to pull up as well)
3. The ability to manage fuel efficiently. I.E to ensure long term fuel management

I feel sorry for any newbie who asks a question in this forum. They need to stand clear and ask nice people the stupid questions.

I don't live in Wanganui. I live in Whanganui you racist fuck

Unfortunate thread. Frankly, I would be surprised if someone training 20hrs/wk for any length of time didn’t finish in under 5 hours, although I like riding my bike.

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oof. I swam at a powerhouse D1 school, qualified for Olympic Trials, and I know I have more knowledge about swimming than most. It is a matter of being "qualified to give anyone rough guidelines to their goals," as you put it. I would choose someone with extensive swimming experience over someone who is only doing 3 practices a week for 28 minutes. What happens if you swim over 28 minutes in the race? Will you give up because that throws you off? I recommend doing 3000-4000 a practice for swimming. Keeps endurance up, rather than swimming what you think you'll be able to do (assuming you're 1.9km time was in a pool, and not open water).

sometimes people read and aren't debating with you- they are telling you from experience that you probably aren't going to achieve your goal in the timeframe you want based on the stats you gave. I used to think that getting where I wanted to be on biking or running would be "easy"- train more and it would come. It doesn't really happen like that. You will take steps forward and backwards, and some weeks you will wonder if you are even making progress. If you think you won't be one of those people, ask any professional triathlete if they've had weeks and seasons where they haven't achieved what they wanted. Also, calling people losers after they disagree with you is juvenile.... and to call someone a racist fk simply because they forgot the h in the Whaganui name is rude and shows you aren't open to constructive criticism at all... or even someone making an accidental typo lol

And he doesn't realize that THIS is why he is getting the reactions he is. Nobody would bat an eye if it were just newbie questions. There's this very strange arrogance, and I have zero idea where it's coming from. It's now mixed with a misunderstanding of the advice given to him so far and some very odd and wrong beliefs (who still thinks you pull up on pedals? creatine?) regarding training and the science behind it.

But I'm now in 100% on this train wreck. I can't wait to see what his next hack is.

Smart is not getting hurt and training today so you can train tomorrow. You said you were at the doc for heart issues. Don’t die man.

3 hacks on the bike- what do you mean by hack?

Pull up and down on the pedals. No. People once believed clipless pedals allowed you to pull. It’s bullshit. You pedal through the bottom stroke efficiently as you rotate your ankle as you spin. Proper seat height helps with pedal stroke tremendously.

How can you be bored on a bike? You travel 4 times faster than running and that makes for 4 times more things to see? Not much to see underwater when swimming, that should be boring! If your uncomfortable, go to the bike shop and ask for a bike fit. Necessary when you ride a lot.

This is an insignificant factor as long as you have two fully functional legs, the muscular requirements are so low. 200w is an average pedalling force of around 14lbs per leg! And you shouldn't be pulling. Pedal hard however feels best (quad and glute dominant) on a good bike fit and the limitation will be gas exchange not what muscles you are using.

And don't get hysterical. Your man crush Tim Ferris would never stoop to that.

---

Professional Athlete: http://jordancheyne.wordpress.com/ http://www.strava.com/athletes/145340

Coaching Services:http://www.peakformcoaching.com/

Is this specific to cycling?

I know runners who run 6-7 times a week and are still not meeting their goals.


Surely in cycling you need to do some specific training?

Thank you for your input. I admit, I only swam nationally at shorter distances. Not a lot of training has been brought across.

My aim was to casually do 30minutes this time around.

I was thinking of doing roughly 10'000 metres a week to maintain stroke count and core fitness. (Once I am swim fit again)


I am 70% sure I won't go under 5. I am 40% sure I won't even see a 5... I do not mind and will be the first person to pivot my goals closer to the event. Oh and laugh.

However, my only fear is waste. I can not stand wasting time. If I trained for 6 months and then found out, all I needed to do was a HIIT TRAINING session or a strength work out or something basic.... Or finding out.. Like i just did, that when you pedal you pull up as well. I would have been angry at myself

It's good to be laughed at... I enjoy it. But it's been weeks now and I'm bored of people refusing to read and just assume.

FYI it's not that I disagree with them. It's the constant responses of commentary and not analysis. If I wanted that, I would have asked on Facebook. I wanted specifically the " fat" guy turned ironman. I wanted real-life data from people like Duncan, not so much the pros who an easy week was 4 hours of work 8 years ago.
.i wanted the people who have done the research and found that 20 hours is perfect but don't miss xyZ session.

As I said. I'm following Duncan on strava now. I have a plan for running and swimming but I don't understand cycling, i can only hope it gets better with all the hours.

Only white supremacists lose the H in Whanganui.

Cold showers

So you literally push down? Then how does your glutes come into the motion? Wouldn't it be purely reflextor and quad?

Running sends hormones around my body. It's like a breathe of fresh air.

Swimming allows me to shut off. Just swim, i can go for two hours and just be happy

Cycling... It's just painful. Within the first 10mins my quads burn, then they have no power left, then I fall over cos I can't get my cleats out. I'm just a freaking idiot on the bike. Then my ass hurts for days where I can't sit down and look like I've had a session with a s and m.

I've been told... I just need to ride more.

Indoor trainer is better.

I hear you, but I've never seen this 200w. At the gym i average 96watts and when I'm really pushing it, I see 150watts.

Maybe it's just the gym, maybe... But I doubt it based on my performance.

This thread rivals the Ashley Horner thread.

Here is the best tip from this thread. You finally hit the nail on the head.

YOU SUCK ON THE BIKE.

Your swim time is fast enough to see a 5hr half IM. Your run is as well. Your last half IM you blew the bike and your race sucked because of it. You hate cycling... why, cuz you suck at it.

If you want to be good at triathlon you need to be a more balanced athlete at all 3 sports. Fact is, many triathletes are good at all 3 sports and not great at any one of them. That’s ok, because it’s better than being great at 2 and sucking at 1.

Start riding your bike 4 times a week for 1.25 - 1.5 hrs each time. Swim one day a week and run one day a week. Take one day off.

Buy an expensive pair of bike shorts. It’s worth it. Comfort is critical and bike shorts last forever. Hand wash them and air dry them. Don’t put them with anything that has Velcro when you wash them. The damn Velcro sticks to the Lycra and ruins them. If your ass still hurts in a month of riding, go to the bike shop and get a new seat. A good shop allows returns if the new seat is not comfortable.

Are you on a road bike or Tri bike? Honestly- I would ride a road bike until you are confident and a faster rider, then switch to the Tri bike. Tri bike verses road bike even with fast aero wheels may save you 8 min in a half Ironman distance. Not worth the discomfort at this level.

Remember. You did a 4 hr bike split. Do everything I am saying and let’s get your bike split to at least 3 hrs which is 18mph average for 56 miles. Hopefully quicker.

If you can do a 30 min swim going easy, then a 3 hrs bike- you are at 3.5 hrs and it sounds like you can run a 90 min 13.1 mile run from what you have stated. There is your 5 hrs, excluding transition times of course.

Well, I'm happy to not post anymore. i got the info I wanted.

Bit of research on top and YouTube and I don't see what else I can do.

I have my plan and the times I need to achieve in each three disciplines going forward.

It's not 50 ironman in 50 days.

It's just Mike seeing what his potential is after 8 months of training.

Since I trained 7 weeks last time. 8 months is a lot longer

Thanks, good advice and yeah. I completely suck at the bike.

I have a p2c. It's mostly comfortable (position wise) compared to my road Scott bike.

I'll go get another seat

You have the same bike as me. I have a P2C as well.

Ride your road bike. Bike shorts on a Tri bike suck. Too much pad for the position. You need a Tri short for a Tri bike. However, less pad means less comfort. I’m using a Specialized Sitero Tri seat and a specialized Toupe road seat. Mainly because I think Specialized is a good company and the dealer will swap seats for me if I buy a new seat and if it’s not comfortable as I mentioned.

Seats are obviously anatomically specific to your body. Since I have an enormous penis, these seats work for me, but not for most people. (Intended joke... seriously though, it’s a personal preference). Good bike shorts first, ride your bike consistently for a month, then buy a seat.

Seat position and seat height are very critical to comfort.

At no point in that thread did Ashley call me old or start stalking me.

:-)

*turns up at Duncans home*