So when is Newton coming out with a mid-foot cushioned shoe?

11.2 ounces? Damn heavy.

A big shoe company making a Max runner can only be a good thing if you like that sort of shoe. Way too expensive, for me, but hopefully paving the way. I'd like to see Adidas make one using Boost.

BTW is Rincon a typo or something completely off my radar?

Hoka Rincon is a new Hoka model coming mid 2019.

Same stacks as Clifton, but much lighter, nearly 2oz less, and more responsive (TBC)

https://www.outsideonline.com/...+Weekly+3%2F1%2F2019


"The biggest practical insight: in the new SMU data set, changing your shoes, on its own, doesn’t significantly change your loading rate. Either your shoe cushioning softens the impact, or you adjust your landing to get cushioning from your calf and Achilles. Take your pick, because the end result—at least under these particular conditions—is the same."

Everything about that shoe looks horrendous.

Clearly, it is quite heavy and very expensive.

Hopefully the 2 others in the same "line" will be lighter and more reasonably priced.

IMO, seems very similar to a Bondi... but more expensive

i don't know if i'll like the shoe. and i have some concerns. but i think it looks great. and i see this as a complete capitulation by asics on a narrative that it kept flogging for a generation, and i salute asics for making that move.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Complete capitulation? Asics is stuggling in the USA and they need to build that back up. Maybe jumping into the functionally supportive designs is a start. It’s important to remember they are a global brand and they are killing it in the fastest growing running market and are doing quite well in Europe too.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

I can't see how a superexpensive shoe is your hope for more affordable I think it's the reverse it will bring prices up.

It's certainly an interesting shoe but 250 euro retail price is at least 20% to high me things.
I think we see thethe with the pegasus turbo while cheaper than the vaporfly
It's still above everything else in price than before so it's not really a trigger down effect
The zoom fly is but again at a very high price that's not mid price level it's again upper price that's above what they used to sell slower than previous faster racing shoes. Admiringly more cushioned but for an fast athlete slower...

Nike will quickly overtake asics in asia id guess since its been branded as fastest. And actually is fastest

Asia is all about brands and logos

As an aside always ran asics and switched to Vaporfly recently Ran in asics again fir the first time in a few months and was stunned at how slow i ran and how bad they felt

I was refering to Sam statement in the review (link), saying that 2 other shoes in the same line will be released later.

For me, on a marketing point of view, it make sense to release first the most expensive (flagship), then release cheaper models, using the desire / narrative induced by first model.

On a branding point of view, this new shoe being so different from other ASICS shoes, there is a need for credibilisation amongst ASICS brand followers, and this can be done through high price (you know, for brand addicts, expensive = cool).

OK, at the end of the road, it is going to be a Bondi or Clifton copy, at same price, but with a ASICS logo, and a brand legend (ASICS research, super expensive METARIDE, ...), wich is obviously better than be perceived as a HOKA / Saucony / Altra / ... me too product.

To say it differently, it is better for ASICS and ASICS reseller to say, speaking about future affordable version of the METARIDE :
"this is the affordable version of the super techno and super expensive METARIDE, developed by ASICS on totally new concepts"
than
"this is a copy of HOKA Bondi/Clifton because we realized that our usual 10mm drop / no midfoot cushion models we push from the 80s are clunky and push our customer to overstride and destroy their knees, hips and back.... sorry for not having done that sooner... we are so stubborn... sumimasen deshita"

As Slowman said, "complete capitulation of the narrative..." but they just cannot say it like that :-)

Asics biggest problem in the US is that it has completely fucked up the 2000 series for the last, oh, four or five iterations. Couple that with some seriously poor at-once availability and retailers transitioned into easy stock with Saucony and Brooks.

Asics still has a strong global presence, and as Dave mentioned, is still growing considerably in emerging markets. I think this is really just a nod in this direction, a lot like the original 33 line-up of shoes was.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Intriguing. I've had many pairs of Kayanos and a few other Asics but have been in Hokas the past few years. An Asics max cushion shoe with low drop sounds pretty good. But dang those things are hideous. Nice tasteful black upper but then the bright red is glaring. Maybe I'd paint the red parts black if I got them. See if they're $50 a year from now and I might try them.

 
From what i have seen, the Asics 33 product range was positioned "natural running" in the "Mix the run" narrative.
The idea was (If I understood well) : "use our usual ASICS products for the bulk of training, and use the 33 as "another shoe" for practicing a bit of "natural running"

Now, the MetaRide seems positioned for the BULK of running.
Not a "secondary shoe", but "main shoe". In competition with Nimbus/Cumulus/...

It is courageous for ASICS to enter such a change.
"Complete capitulation of the narrative" is not an easy decision. It is great they can move from their usual old design principles.

you're the one who knows this, not me. but i'm just wondering, where is asics killing it in tech running? not in "commuter pants" or the "footpatrol" line. i keep track of all the footwear brands here in this community, and have since 2007, so i have a linear, historical progression that has kept track of this. and yes, it's just us i'm polling. but our folks are quicker to understand and respond to a trend. in 18 months our folks went from a 6 percent nike marketshare to 20 percent, even with hoka, when limited to the choice for racing.

i'd like to watch where asics is strong or surging - in tech running only - and see how that changes over time.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

really not similar to Hoka at all

firm top, softer bottom for the midsole

huge toe spring with a rocker bottom more pronounced than any Hoka

This model is a proof of concept. Its about locking in the angle of the ankle and reducing fatigue over longer distances

there will be additional models in the future at lower costs and lighter weights using similar platforms

Its easy to pass judgement on this model when you see pictures of it, it looks very different then anything else out there right now, running it in though you can feel what they are trying to accomplish

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Boots
Fleet Feet Rochester, NY
Fleet Feet Buffalo, NY
YellowJacket Racing, Rochester, NY

Well, do you like it or not?

I do, it is a very unique feel on foot. Walking feels odd to begin as there is so much toe spring. running in them feels totally different as the foot is moving through the cycle much faster

The upper is absolutely beautiful construction, very nice mesh's and very well done

When ASICS first said it would be firm closest to the foot I was concerned as step in feel is important, but after they explained their research and I was able to have it on foot I'm not concerned at all and don't notice that part of it.

I think this is very good direction that ASICS is going but it will all come down to if the public accepts it

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Boots
Fleet Feet Rochester, NY
Fleet Feet Buffalo, NY
YellowJacket Racing, Rochester, NY

Do you feel it's best for racing or training and what distances?

not a racer at all, wasn't meant to be one

this is a daily log a bunch of miles trainer

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Boots
Fleet Feet Rochester, NY
Fleet Feet Buffalo, NY
YellowJacket Racing, Rochester, NY

  
I fully agree it is a good direction for ASICS to follow.
At last they move from always the same old recipe for trainers.

As you tested it, did you test comparatively to a Hoka Bondi for exemple ?

I had not tested it yet, but IMO it is looks very similar to Hoka Bondi (high stack, low drop, big rocker).
I understand ASICS is pushing a narrative of research and originality (instead of being simply a me-too product), but the result is surprisingly similar to the Hoka "basic principles", isn't it ?

Hopefully I will check that by running them soon.

I’ve had Bondi going back to the very original one, I may have been the first retailer in NY state to sell them. These may somewhat fit in the same category but they do not feel remotely similar.

Bondi while having a rocker it’s not really felt. You know there is a big rocker in the ASICS.

Hoka OG premise was a big cushioned shoe to protect on downhills during ultra trail races, they just so happened to then work for a whole lot more. The rocker was built to accomadate the huge amount of foam that the foot couldn’t flex.

So maybe somewhat similar but built with a different purpose and a very different feel

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Boots
Fleet Feet Rochester, NY
Fleet Feet Buffalo, NY
YellowJacket Racing, Rochester, NY

Finally had a run this morning on the pair I picked up. Totally agree with your impressions. Walking at first is very strange. After a few miles running, you just kind of settle into the motion and it disappears. I thought the show was really firm and I could tell it was heavier than what I’ve been training in (Vaporfly training runs and 4% for racing). These are my first Asics as I’ve just never been drawn to the brand.

I think compared to the Hoka Carbon Rocket I ran in on Monday, the metaride is firmer, rocks more, and is heavier, but I’m not an expert and I really just go by what feels good. Hoka carbon feels better than the metaride, on first run impressions, but neither of them feel as good to me as the vaporfly. Then again, a guy in my run group got the vaporfly and hated them on his first run and never tried them again.

I’ll get more miles on them leading up to LA Marathon this month when I’m doing slower or recovery days but for now I’ll prefer vaporfly.

Interesting feedback

ASICS says it is for heel-strikers
And you says it is firm (midfoot ?)
Sam, the tester in the review in post #1, clearly a heel-striker, says also it is firm especially midfoot.

So yes, this is a difference with Hoka.

So, high stack and rocker just to keep the ankle at same angle, but still to heel strike with no mid-foot cushion.

OK, not a shoe for me, most probably. I was hesitating to go Hoka Carbon Rocket, thinking may be not enough mid foot cushion, but I will try them, as apparently they do have mid-foot cushion.

I was expecting ASICS to understand the value of mid foot cushion, and with 30mm+ of stack, it is still not there....

 

Its a heavy $250 brick.

A max runner using boost would weigh like 15oz, that stuff is heavy. The newest Ultra Boost already weighs over 11oz in a size 9.

Sure is. The metaride in Size 11 is 12oz on my scale. For comparison (of two totally different purpose shoes) the Nike 4% is 7.6oz and my everyday Vaporfly is 9.4oz. I give it a week or so before I have metarides for sale.

When you say it is firm, how firm is it ? Can you compare to another shoes ?

Other ASICS such as Nimbus / Cumulus / Kayano ?
Older Pegasus ?
NB 1400 / 1500 / Zante ?

I'm not too worried about weight for shoes I train in. I have a goretex version of a shoe that is pretty heavy but I don't notice it when I'm running.

Racing would be different but for training I want a midsole material that lasts a long time under all parts of the shoe, not just the heel. I also want a lot of rubber under that. So, absolutely, that's going to be heavy.

Any idea about durable max shoes out there? I should of stocked up on Hoka Conquest but can't find them now and they seem to of moved away from full RMAT.

I do some consulting for a large retailer that sells a lot of running shoes. The result of a strange conversation was that I was given a pair of these to try. I took them home yesterday and ran around the block in them with the intention of Sunday being the real test with a 10 mile run. My first thought around the block was holy crap do these feel strange, the rocker is over the top and even though it’s a 0 drop shoe, it doesn’t feel like it at all.

Last night my wife and I went to a concert and I had too much to drink. I woke up this morning and planned on today being a rest day but ended up doing my 10 miler today to clear time for something else tomorrow. So I set out to run on tired legs with a bit of a hang over on strange ass feeling shoes. Typically I wear max cush nueteral trainers, for may years I was strictly asics but moved away in recent years with the glycerin, bondi, and triumph in my rotation. I’m a 260 pound guy who used to weigh over 400 pounds and have done a number of marathons and a couple of ironmans. Most recently I have been running in the vomero 14 and while I love the lower in the vomero I do not like the upper.

In every pair of asics I use the extra eyelets, not for a heel lock, but just as a regular lace pattern. This shoe was no exception. I wear a size 15 and depending on the shoe, a 15 wide. The vomero though for some reason I wore a 14eeee and that worked well. The asics fit fine in the standard width as the kinit is pretty forgiving. The lower is cushioned but not mushy, it felt like it had a good firm depth to it like maybe a bondi 5 but with an aggressive rocker. I took off running and after about 2 miles either the shoe relaxed a bit or my foot/stride adjusted to the rocker. Its way more pronounced than the one in a bondi. So much so that you really don’t feel your calves engage. I felt stable in the shoe except a did trip on something and when I my foot lurched out to catch me it hit the rocker pushing me more forward. I did manage to catch myself before tumbling. At the end of the run my pace was on target for a good day on that route and despite being on not much sleep and drinking too much my legs feel pretty fresh.

Now, this isn’t a shoe you would look to get a PR in a 10k. I think this will be a really good marathon, and even better, ironman shoe for the “just looking to finish” crowd. I think, and its just a guess that this design will delay the fade in a long race and that may be what gives you the PR over the long game. As far as price, I know they’re going to make a cheaper version. At $250 its steep. I’ll say that if I do a 14 mile run in this shoe on good legs and I feel fresh that I would pay the price and use it for marathons or an ironman. When I started running I would pay $130 for a pair of kayanos. My income has doubled in that time and i'm far too heavy for a vapor fly.

I'll tell you where there are very few if any Asics - ultras

ASICS lost $180 million last year. It's dying and they struggle a lot even in their home country, Japan. I've tried a lot of Hoka shoes including Carbon Rocket, Sketchers GoRun Razor 3, Nike Vaporfly 4% and Pegasus. Nike is the best. Hoka makes some pretty good shoes, but they are ok.

It's moving mass market, looks like aiming for Bondi/Clifton/X and getting good reviews...

https://www.roadtrailrun.com/...ideo-review.html?m=1

IMO, HOKA is eating Asics lunch because HOKA is selling shoes to non-runners. My folks are 78 years old and i'd say 60% of their friends (and both of them) are wearing HOKA as an everyday shoe.

Next time you're at the airport, take a look at the shoes of the over-60 crowd of 'normal' people (no-runners). If they're wearing running shoes, odds are they're HOKAs.

I've run total 16 miles with Rincon and they are excellent.
One problem is bottom sole is wearing out fast. Obviously, you can have everything.
Light means light material which is not durable at all.
I've been using Cliftons, Claytons and Rincon is much much better.

Yes, interesting review.

Now ASICS is clearly chasing on Hoka areas... officially targeting the Carbon X (at the same price ;-)

Still a bit expensive, compared to Hoka Rincon :-)

Before Hoka it was New Balance in the airports in the USA. No brand can plan for that but they will take it. The thing to remember is that customer will only buy a new shoe every 2 years or more. That’s the total sport shoe market in general. As triathletes or runners we don’t act like the general market and we can’t apply our buying habits to a general population and extrapolate. You are not doing that here but it’s done often.

Asics the brand is doing ok. They are not chasing Hoka. If anything Hoka is chasing them. Strip the global business Asics does out of it and just concentrate on the USA. Asics is still larger. They have two shoes that are absolute standards by which everything else is measured. Nobody on this forum talks about the Kayano. It’s one of the most boring shoes to talk about. If anything people talk about the changes from one to the next. I could do some data analysis from my work and figure out within reason how many people on this forum run in the Kayano. It wouldn’t be small.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

Hey Dave, sure Hoka is still small compared to the biggies, but from 2 million to about 350 million in such a short time period(relatively) has to have gotten some ears to perk up on the legacy shoe companies, no? I see shoes from just about all of them that look like HOKA's now too.

My father in law is one of those 77 year olds who doesnt run, and has been wearing them for 4 years now. He gets a new pair about every 6 months. I do think in the well off retired crowd, they go through these shoes quicker than every two years, like to keep up with the new styles. I just wish I could afford to get a new pair every 6 months, I run those babies into the ground, still have my first pair I walk around in... (-;

Dan seems to like the new carbon Hoka, what are you hearing about that for old man racing?

Monty,

Yes of course Hoka has some folks looking at them. I did an entire research project for one of the advanced concept teams on that topic. That was 3 years ago.
Hoka is an amazing brand. They caught fire at the exact right time when everyone got wrecked from minimalism (yes I know not everyone). And with some good progression in development and a really good marketing team they continue to gain share. I look at it two different ways. 1. They are moving up because they are doing great things. 2. They are moving up because other brands can’t get out of their own way. Of course it’s a combination of both.

As for the Carbon X. I just sent this message to Hoka. “It’s the quietest-smoothest shoe I’ve run in a long time.” From Hoka to Hoka like Dan from the Bondi to the Carbon X it’s an amazingly different feel and a faster feel for sure. That would be true from the Clifton or the Mach or the Rincon. I think it would be a nice Old Guy race day shoe. I pull it out when I simply need to feel smooth on the roads. Sometimes I still like to feel the road and for those days it’s a different shoe.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

“It’s the quietest-smoothest shoe I’ve run in a long time.”//

Well shit then, there goes another $175.. Thanks Dave..(-;

I have run a bit more than 50k with the Rincon also.

Nearly as stable as Clifton 5, same cushion, but much lighter.
Love it for tempo work.

However, I slightly prefer the Carbon X. Not sure why. Maybe Carbon X is perfect in stability, maybe the light peps from the carbon, maybe a bit softer.

But for the price difference (got them for half the price of the Carbon X), they are really great.

I abandoned Asics for Adidas, but it seems all the manufacturers are weaving left and right to find the promised land, often leaving devoted customers way behind.

Damnit Dave! Keep making YouTube vids love your opinions and thoughts on shoes.

Thanks for that comment. I’ve stopped watching you tube shoe reviews because most if not all concentrate on on individual view of the shoe. As you know I’ve always tried to extrapolate what I think you will feel based on who you are. Doing that and doing the video editing and all the other stuff simply becomes too much. If I could have an expert like Talbot or Taren do all the video work and I simply provide the content than I’m totally down for doing more.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed