It is a sad, sad day when cerveloguy is considered a "right winger" ...


http://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../?page=unread#unread

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

And why does everyone in the whole world make blanket statements as if they apply to the entirety of a given group?

The only people NOT complaining about real estate prices in the Silicon Valley/SFO are property owners. And billionaires.

SF is an example of the predominantly liberal rich restraining the market, driving up real estate prices, and damaging human well being.

It's got a veritable smorgasbord of prime political variables for the right to sink its teeth into.

Why are you friends with so many right-wingers?

There's an old saying: "As California goes, so goes the rest of the nation."

Those of us in the saner parts of the country would like very much for the California contagion to remain in the Golden State, if you please. ;-)

Also, it's convenient to just place people in boxes, such as "Right wingers" and Left wingers." But housing prices are scary in some parts of the country, especially in much of California, and a lot of people of all ideological stripes are concerned about this issue. And where are the folks in California who can't afford to pay half or more of their monthly income for rent going to go?

Supposedly, homelessness has surged 75% in six years in Los Angeles. Figure there's a pretty hefty homeless population in SFO. Likewise in San Diego, which experienced a large hepatitis A outbreak several months ago in areas where large numbers of the homeless congregate. That's a problem.

Obviously, not all homeless folks are homeless because of high housing costs, but there's no doubt some of them are. And even just "some" is really too many. California needs to address the issue of sky high housing before it infects the rest of the country like some sort of out-of-control zombie contagion amirite? ;-)

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

It starts with an "N" and ends with a "V".

Your problem is assuming that only people of one political stripe are concerned with pricing that doesn't truly match the market. Economics and politics aren't necessarily aligned.

Today in California, AB 169 was introduced which addresses the homeless problem by CA taxpayers funding a program to acquire dirt cheap old houses/multi-unit properties in Detroit and busing the homeless there along with food stamps. Far cheaper than the cost of leaving them here in CA.

It’ll be signed into law next week.

There are probably a lot of reasons. I am going to focus on one of the more negative ones.

For many conservatives
Wealth = success= human worth

But also
Liberals = total crap

So to do the math:
Rich liberal > middle class conservative > poor conservative

Or:
Rich total crap > middle class and poor conservatives

But: “ How can this be? Something ungodly must be going on.”

Holy shit! You FINALLY posted an intelligent comment in the LR!

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Do they SAY they are right wing or are you assuming? Have you done party affiliation research and statistics yourself, on who is with what party and then match them up with comments? Or is this some actual research you came across? I'm just interested in the blanket "right wing" comments. I'm not defending them, I'm actually interested in what research you did to say such a thing. If this was about a left wing group comment, same goes...so I'm not taking sides here.

Wrong.
When I noticed that you are a in fact a good sheep dog (just like you claimed) that was inteligent.

Good boy!!
Keep at it.
Maybe master will give you a treat.

LOL! You and Trump, buddy! You and Trump! Ha! Ha! Ha!

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Quoting this for pure irony’s sake.

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

Hmmmm.
Spot not sheep dog.
Spot tied to chain outside double wide.
Irony indeed!

Clever. I just find it humorous when someone insults someone else’s *intelligence* and then misspells a word. I’m assuming your retort will be that you did it on purpose.

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

No I am on the trainer.
Listening to music.
And stupid.

Fair enough! Enjoy your trainer ride!

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

Two accurate posts in the same thread? Wow! You are having a hell of a day, kiddo!

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Fuck.
I don’t care about your masters stupid sheep.

I wish you were my dog.

LOL! What the hell does that even mean? Well, at least you are honest about your intelligence (or lack thereof).

Enjoy your ride, kiddo. Hope your mom doesn't come down to the basement and see the language you are using on the internet.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Well.
You are a very good dog.

So here is how it works-
Rich conservatives (and some liberals) pay you to protect their sheep, or the grass or whatever.
(Ie. labor law)
This is a pretty stupid job.
But all jobs are stupid.

What IS really stupid though is that you cannot leave your work at home..
Like a good dog.
You come barking around here.
Can’t tell the difference between wolves and other farmers.
Loyal but dumb.

I wish I had a dog like you.

But cannot afford one. Too stupid or lazy.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

JSA
I lead back packing trips many years ago. Campers chose their own nicknames.
The names were alway unfortunately appropriate. The clueless girl “mist.”
The ridiculous tightass “forge.”
(No jokes).

The funny thing is that the camper that chose the name was always oblivious to the other meanings.

The other day you said someone else was a sheep not a sheep dog.

Implying you are a sheep dog.

But like a stupid dog, you missed the other implications.

I am not smart.

But you definitely aren’t either.

Oh well good dog. Will go to dog heaven.

You beat me to it. LOL!

I think that you haven't been hanging around the LR enough ;). His comment was directed at posts by LR denizens, and they overwhelmingly skew to the right on this particular subject (the odd post by cerveloguy notwithstanding).

Here in the LR there just aren't that many hard-core leftists of the Berzerkley bat-shit variety. The more important truth is, in the Bay Area there aren't that many either (probably less than 10%). Most of those evil libs are moderates who pretty indistinguishable from Rockefeller Republicans or the moderate GOP'ers that are also here..

Well, that brings on two obvious questions...

1.) Where did all those Bernie voters come from then?
2.) What term relevant to this conversation starts with an "N" and ends with a "V"?

Another theory might be that we see our own shortcomings in our enemies.

Silicon Valley for me represents the vanguard of everything “virtual” (or fake).
The endless suburban sprawl, the high costs, the identical people (all claiming originality, the freeway leading to the corner store, the full time pursuit of Internet triviality.

But it also represents wealth, comfort, complacency.


I hate myself for succumbing to all this crap.
But I suppose it is my own fault.
So I cannot really hate Silicon Valley, Wall Street, Hollywood.

But if I were poor. I would definitely hate it all.
And more if I realize I couldn’t even afford it.

I don't know anyone outside of SF that cares about their real estate prices.

What are you talking about? Hilary easily won San Francisco, San Mateo and Santa Clara Counties and won the Bay Area with higher percentages than she had nationwide or statewide during the Dem primary battle. Bernie under-performed in the Bay Area. You do realize that, right?

Ah, I see. Thanks for the explanation. you are correct... I am not around much in the LR. Anyhow, seriously though, I've only been on here a few times, but am more frequent on the Tri Forum. Just thought I'd poke around in the LR to see what the chatter is about. I was statistically curious about the remarks vs real estate connection. I'm thinking the type / font color in LR should be standard pink format?

Are you high?

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Ya think??? For his/her sake, I hope so.

But before he/she sobers up - maybe he can tell me what kind of animal I am.

California's got an immense number of factors going for it, including breathtaking natural beauty and an economy rivaling or exceeding that of many nations. But to me it seems like it's intent on riding hellbent for leather right over the cliff. And I don't want it to take the rest of us with it. ;-)

-- California taxes and cost of living are higher than most other states.

-- California’s energy costs are as much as 50 percent higher than the national average.

-- Nearly 20 percent of California’s 38 million residents live below the poverty line.

-- California has more than 33 percent of the nation’s welfare recipients.

-- California is home to 12 percent of the nation’s population, but 22 percent of the nation’s homeless population.

-- Roughly 1.5 million households pay more than 50 percent of their income toward rent.

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

If I was homeless I think I'd rather be homeless in California than living in a shitty run down house in Detroit.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

All the way. Thus, the attraction on the part of the homeless to the Golden State. ;-)

According to a recent article in the Lost Angeles Times, more than a quarter of the nation's homeless population -- roughly 114,000 -- lives in California. And I think there's something like 58,000 of the homeless just in Los Angeles alone.

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Well no shit - it is cold in Detroit. Me? I'm heading to San Diego.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

No way. I would definitely be something big and fierce - like a lion or a tiger. Maybe even a Liger.

Why does it bother you (OP) so much as to what you perceive bother these righties?

There are a lot of homeless in Seattle and its definitely not warm. As its constantly wet for 6 months it seems the worst place you'd want to be homeless, nevertheless, are homeless population is swelling.

California taxes and cost of living are higher than most other states. //


You know I see this touted all the time and I'm going to take some acceptation with it. For the average person(you and I, yes?) their biggest tax is their property tax. In CA because of prop 13, we have had a very low property tax as compared to most of the country. My relatives in Texas pay just about twice as much as I do here. My brother in Vermont also pays a lot more than me, with a house just a little over half the value of mine. For regular people that dont make a lot of money and own a house, I would guess property tax is the number one tax expense by far.


Now you can get into the weeds on what millionaires have to pay in state taxes, but for just regular folks who are not 1%ers, we probably pay less than most states. I know for me property taxes are my biggest by far taxes paid in CA, and my overall tax burden would not go down by moving just about anywhere except Hawaii maybe. What do you pay there where you live?? Mine is 1% and is relatively fixed(base home value) until you sell and the new purchase price becomes your new base.

I made my feelings quite clear in the op. Read.

Real answer is I was trolling Kahuna who I’ve grown fond of. Besides without this query we would not have got this exchange between Buda, spot, and JSA. So, um, your welcome.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

(Hangs head in shame)

State income tax
Car registration
Electrical power rates
Gasoline
Insurance rates

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

State income tax
Car registration
Electrical power rates
Gasoline
Insurance rates //

I pay no state income tax here(well pay it but get it back at tax time), dont make enough money, how much do you pay?


Every state pays car registrations, so we pay a few bucks more than some others, difference is dinner out for the family, one night


I stay in tier one for electrical rates and also get a business rate on my other house, so 6 to 11 cents per K, what does everyone else pay?


Gas tax is probably the next biggest as compared to other states, but no where near what property taxes are.


Insurance is not a tax, but I just got a new mini van and pay about $750 a year, what do others pay in other states for similar cars? Bet not much of a difference..

King County (Seattle area) where I live is something like 1.025% of home+property value//

That is pretty good if that is the total you pay. Does that include the usually fire dept, schools, libraries etc taxes they tack on? If so you are on the low end, Texas pays almost double that, same as Vermont. Of course in Vermont you get some state sponsored medical I believe, so that is a huge perk if you dont have to pay medical insurance...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2017/04/16/comparing-average-property-taxes-all-50-states-and-dc/100314754/


High-end is over 2% (NJ, TX, IL, NH). I pay ~0.6%.

Well, in AZ we pay about 0.8% in property taxes. The assessed value is only about 75% of the actual street value..not sure if that is the case in CA so I'll disregard it. But my home in Chandler would assess at least 1.5X in most comparable CA cities. So to do the math, I've been researching a possible move to the Folsom area and $/ft is $259, vs $161 with a tax rate in Folsom of 0.95%. So for the same house (~3000 sq ft), I would pay $7381 in tax vs $3864, which is a 91% increase in property taxes alone. And...if CA assess at 100% of street value, the difference is even more than that.

Well you happen to live in one of the few states or areas that have a tiny bit lower property tax than us. My point was not that we are the lowest, but looking at oldandslow's chart we are near the lowest at .77.

Of course if you move from Hawaii it will be even more, but move from Texas and you hit the jackpot!! And here it just depends on how long you have held onto your house. Some only people who live in Malibu pay $2k for a 4 million dollar home, as long as they have been there since inception. Other people who have had huge appreciations on their homes, which is not unusual in CA, will be paying a small % of that real value in taxes. Like I said, it gets fixed at purchase, and if you home goes up 40% in the next 5 years(not unusual) you are still basically paying on that original purchase price plus a couple % a year as a cap that it can go up.

In you case it is just a matter of where you really want to live I guess, Folsom is pretty nice, close to the Sierras and some spectacular training and vistas. Too cold for my liking in the winter, but love that place in the other 3 seasons..

https://www.usatoday.com/...es-and-dc/100314754/

CA property taxes are 1.25% of assessed value at point of sale, with limited annual rise (which is why long-term owners pay much lower rates). If you bought a house the tax would be 1.25%.


Regarding your choices, get a smaller house? That is a basic option in higher cost areas. Life is full of choices, and they are all good, depending on your priorities. FYI, my house is ~1300 sq. ft., which is absolutely perfect considering that our kids are going off to college.

CA property taxes are 1.25% of assessed value at point of sale, with limited annual rise (which is why long-term owners pay much lower rates). If you bought a house the tax would be 1.25%.


Regarding your choices, get a smaller house? That is a basic option in higher cost areas. Life is full of choices, both are good. FYI, my house is ~1300 sq. ft., which is absolutely perfect considering that our kids are going off to college. //

I think you guys must have some other tack ons, mine in LA county is just 1%. But good advice on the size of house, I realized that when I moved here to Orange County. I got the smallest stand alone house I could 1530 sq ft, and I have 3 young kids too. I mean really, I could live in a motor home and be happy, but this was bare minimum for my wife..(-;

The tax rate is 1% plus bond debts voted in,. In many areas of Cen Cal is closer to 1.3%.

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

I pay 11% in state income taxes. It maxs out at 13% which has got to be the highest in the nation.

I just paid $750 to register my pickup. My buddy just moved to Idaho and paid $35.

Tier 1 in CA is 17 cents/kwh. Tier 2 is like 25 cents and it goes up from there. Do you think anyone living inland can stay in Tier 1 or 2. My bill in Cen Cal is $600-700/mo.

Gas tax in CA is legendary.

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

What year is the truck? I just paid this week $130 in Washington for a 10 year old car.

Well, in 1879 Henry George wrote Progress and Poverty. The book's claim is that the most eggregious monopoly was land monopoly, and that high property taxes were the best method for society to combat it. I highly recommend the book. The guy was an unbelievable writer -- none of today's dumbing down phenomenon found in so many books.

Anyway, states like Texas are semi-Georgist in their stance with regards to property taxes, and I can see many good things -- good things for society but not necessarily for me -- coming from it.

Here is a short list:

1.) The high property tax is an incentive to purchase a smaller, cheaper home. A $200,000 home means you pay $4,000. Therefore, a $1M home entails $20,000. The amount goes up and down based on yearly value assessments as well. That's money coming straight out of your pocket, and you are never getting it back. Personally, if I had Washington state or California property taxes I would have a home at least 2x in value from my current home. The small property taxes don't really discourage you because they are dwarfed by potential increases in home value over the course of your living in it.

2.) As alluded to in #1, these property taxes help keep home values down. With people electing to allocate less money to housing there is more to go around.

3.) High property taxes also discourage idle land. Often times, when property taxes are really low, the rich can just sit on their property safe in the knowledge that it will appreciate in certain areas because other people are investing in their land. With high property taxes you must "shit or get of the pot" so to speak. The land more quickly finds its most efficient uses.

2014

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Thanks for the tip, I'll put it on my reading list. I wonder if he would have thought of other asset classes if he was alive today? (stock options?) FYI, Prop. 13 has completely skewed the tax burden here, but it is nearly impossible to do anything with it (too many vested interests, on all sides).

BTW, what did you think about the fact that the Bay Area was less Bernie-centric than the rest of the country?

I pay 11% in state income taxes. It maxs out at 13% which has got to be the highest in the nation. //

So you make so much money that you get none of that back?? Good for you, I would not complain if I made so much that I stayed in the highest brackets..


I just paid $750 to register my pickup. My buddy just moved to Idaho and paid $35.

Well your buddy will more than make up for it in increased property taxes, is that where you want to live??

Gas tax in CA is legendary.

Yes, but how much more than other states, and what is the total"difference" at the end of they year? Someone already posted up Washington, looks like maybe the difference is an expensive dinner out for the family.

Fuuuuck. That's a lot for a 4 year old vehicle.

Fuuuuck. That's a lot for a 4 year old vehicle. //

Thats exactly what I pay for a brand new van too, so must be the liability here that is the killer. And it has gone up two periods in a row, so I'm not really happy about that either. But it is a drop in the bucket compared to my savings on property taxes say compared to Texas...

registration

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

The way it was explained to me is that CA assumes every pickup is a commercial vehicle and charges you that way, even if it is just basic transportation.

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

The lower rate in CA is offset by the much higher prices in many areas.

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Yeah, I know all about this and almost started a thread a few months back. Its complete bullshit. What's really the story in this state is how much our transportation policy is hurting the lower income folks who drive older cars and also live in more remote areas and now have to pay tolls on freeways.

Wow. I can't believe what some of you are paying.

A few years ago my state started offering permanent registration for vehicles 8 and older (http://doa.alaska.gov/dmv/reg/Perm_Reg.htm).

It cost me a little over $100 to register my pickup, which I intend to drive 'til it dies. Never have to pay another nickel for registration.

It cost me a little over $100 to register my pickup, which I intend to drive 'til it dies. Never have to pay another nickel for registration.//

Man that would be nice to have, also incentivize holding onto cars longer.. But once again it appears that on a $500k house, you would pay about a grand more than the California counterpart, so we pay $650 more a year for the car and you pay $1k more for property taxes. So I still am throwing it out there that unless you are in that top percentile that doesn't get tax money back, CA is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be for the average family..

A $500,000 house in california gets you something in an armpit like Palmdale. You also have other costs like excessive car insurance because of proximity to mexico, earthquake insurance, sometimes additional fire insurance.

Yeah, my property taxes are 1.32%, which is high considering that I have to haul all my garbage 10 miles to a dumpster. But you also have to consider that $500K here will buy a lot more house than in most places in Cal.

We have no state income tax and no sales tax, so my $3K property tax is pretty much all I pay in state/local, other than a few odds and ends like a miniscule gas tax (8cents/gal), a 5% alcohol tax and a $2.50 tire tax (more for studs).

And although the Dividend has been chopped, we still got $1100 each last year here in our little socialist libertarian utopia!

But you also have to consider that $500K here will buy a lot more house than in most places in Cal. //

No kidding, although I love to watch those home moving shows, and the Alaska ones always surprise me how much they are. Bet I could get beach front for $500k though, somewhere...You are always going to pay more where people actually want to live in big numbers. Still waiting to see all these disgruntled people leave here, without being replaced immediately by 1.5 people (-;


What about heating costs, that has to be pretty bad there. I hear my brothers sob stories from Vermont, I imagine you would be even worse??I Each area is going to have its pluses and minuses, I barley have to ever use heat or air conditioning here, so a super minimal electric and gas bill. But of course I have to pay more per sq ft than just about anywhere, and somehow I made nearly 18% equity last year on a brand new house I just bought. Of course the risks of it going down a lot are more in play too, but I think I have some runway until that gets to be a real possibility.

A $500,000 house in california gets you something in an armpit like Palmdale. //

Actually 250k will get you 6 bedrooms in Palmdale, 500k gets you Quartz hill.. In CA there is high and low just about everywhere, some really high. I just last year bought a brand new house in a brand new city in south Orange County, surrounded by 1 to 3 million dollar homes for $587k. It is not impossible to live in a nice area in a nice house(near the beaches), you just have to look harder and be willing to size down the sq ft.

Heating costs can be pretty bad depending on how big your house is and how it's built. Ours is 1300sf and well insulated; we use 500 gallons of fuel oil a year if we don't use the wood stove. But I once lived in a ramshackle house where we sometimes used 500 gallons in a month; that was a shock on a student budget!

Electricity is expensive - I pay net 27-28 cents/kWhr, partially due to a local utility that's been badly managed for decades.

//I just last year bought a brand new house in a brand new city in south Orange County, surrounded by 1 to 3 million dollar homes for $587k//


Sure, but it's worth over $700k by now I would imagine. We bought a house in south OC in 1999 for $380k, have long since paid it off and it's rented out for $4,500/mo (and it's worth about $1.1m). That's one benefit of many areas of CA, particularly in coastal areas, is the dramatic increase in value over time. We bought a home in Tucson in 2003 for $300k that is now worth about $400k. You'll be surprised how small that house will become when your kids are 12, 13ish.


Have you ever lived out of CA (as an adult)? We spend a lot of time in Tucson and will relocate in a year or so full-time, and the difference in cost in just about everything is palpable. We have vehicles registered there which we can renew for 2yrs at a time for less than one comparable car costs here. Gas is about $1 less per gallon. Insurance, other services are notably less. Hell, we pay more property tax on our friggin sailboat than on our Tucson house! (We also pay property tax on the slip space the boat floats in to LA County - I suppose it's cool we actually own some of the ocean?). Where I grew up in CA (small desert community) it's affordable re housing but far more difficult to earn a high income in those areas.


Income tax in CA for us is between 10%-13% (depending). And, FWIW, if it's a particularly great year, we pay 40% to the feds so net less than 50% of what we earned.


In CA, the top 1% of earners pay over 50% of the general tax fund. I believe (don't have time to research) that the top 3% pay about 75% of the general fund. At the same time, we have more homeless than anywhere in the country and it's growing at an alarming rate.


CA is becoming a state of extremes - wealth, poverty, costs, homelessness, pensions, traffic, beautiful weather/beaches, crime....

//Actually 250k will get you 6 bedrooms in Palmdale// - more like a 3+3 and 1700 sq ft.

You can live like a king for $500k in middle CA.

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

We spend a lot of time in Tucson and will relocate in a year or so full-time, and the difference in cost in just about everything is palpable.//


I love the desert and Tucson, hell I have a house in the highest of deserts, I believe you know it. And it is just about perfect for me, of course I would like all of AZ's financial benefits, but then it would have to be there.. (-; Yes it looks like the house I bought just a little over a year ago now has gone up to about 710k or so. Like you said, one of the benefits around here if you can get in, or got in anytime in the past 30 years. Made more on my house than I do working!! And thanks to prop 13 I will keep paying taxes on an under 600k house for quite sometime, even when it goes over a mil in about 3 or 4 years..


I applaud what you are doing, I just think a lot of people make too much on what it takes to live in CA. You did it for a very long time, raised you kids, so must have liked something quite powerful about it? It hasn't really changed that much from the old days, just got more crowded. I suppose if politics is very important to you, being republican is not really a + here(except for where you and I live and a few other spots here and there) But that doesn't bother me much at all really, dont plan my life around politics. Suppose if I lived in a gay hating, racist gun toting, knuckle dragging area where I was a very small minority I might think about leaving, but here you have every view and its pretty much tolerated, like most places I presume really.


Empty nesting I suppose comes with a whole new set of feelings and an itch to do something different. I lived like one for a very long time and now starting out like a 20 year old. Yes the house will get small in 7 or 8 years, but it will be worth 1.5 million+ by then and I can use my itch to go somewhere else cool. Hell, I would like to follow in Dorian Paskcowititz's shoes, get a big motorhome and live on the road for a few years, like you on your boat... (-;

Weren't you the one talking about a family living in a motor home / trailer and the parents kicked the kids out in the evenings to have...well...some intimate time? That story still makes me laugh!

I do find the political climate in CA ridiculous but doesn't affect my day to day life (other than the high taxes, but I can earn a lot being here). What I am really commenting on are the cost increases on just about everything, taxes included, and how that will affect my kids after college when they try to settle in OC. We somehow defy basic economics re supply and demand, buying power, etc in this state - given our consumption and populace and high income earners I would envision our overall day to day costs would decrease or atleast increase slower than elsewhere but our state govt cannot manage themselves and tax the crap out of everything and watch administrative costs (DMV, Utilities, etc) and consumables (gas, etc) increase and keep layering more and more tax. I'm no economist and I've been very, very lucky in my career but when I look around and feel the difference outside of CA, it's frustrating.

But I do love the weather, beaches, schools in OC. My kids had a helluva childhood, like yours will, and I wouldn't trade that for anything.

I assume that you mean tax load would decrease. An area that becomes wealthier and economically dynamic will generally have higher cost of living.


Please explain, the thread is pretty much about folks outside of CA not begin able to wrap their heads around why the economy can keep growing and attracting folks, which makes housing more expensive. What is so different in the "feel"?

If CA ran like a Swiss watch for all the extra you pay, that would be one thing. Unfortunately it's more like a Chinese replica that turns your wrist green.

For being perceived as so progressive, in many ways obsolete and backwards.

Having said all that, I'm digging in for the future and am purchasing a house on the central coast. My goal is to get my financial footprint down low enough where I can actually retire someday. I've looked around a lot and there is no place I'd rather live.

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

In a nutshell, it is one of the most concentrated brain centers in the world, which is a catalyst for capital and new businesses.

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

But how many families have just one car? If you have 3 cars, you're paying almost $2k versus that $1k in property tax. If you have two cars, you're still behind.

I've always thought that central coast had a kind of magical feel to it (and I use that word very little to describe places). Time is slower. Natural beauty is unreal. People are mostly not city people other than all the Silicon Valley retirees.

That said, I just got back from time on the Oregon central coast (Manzanita area), and it's very similar. Only it rains a shit ton more, so a little more rain-foresty. But otherwise a very similar feel. Also lots of CA retirees, though. At one point I thought I was in an Orange County coffee shop with all the wealthy plastic surgeried women. But get a house a bit away from town, and you'd seldom have to deal with them.

You guys are out of your mind. ;-)

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Because SF isn’t just a place, it is a symbol of everything the right hates.

Just like Alabama to the left.

All I know is that I won’t be booking any vacations to Alabama anytime soon ;). SF is awesome though.

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

Yes, there is been an enormous emotional and political investment in having conservative areas be economically more successful than liberal areas for several decades, and that has been going poorly. Of course, the deeper truth is that most blue areas reformed themselves long ago, and ended up being way less liberal than the latest "Antifa is coming" article would suggest.

No, its not a symbol of everything the right hates, its a symbol of failed leftist policies.

I don't care what it symbolizes. It just seems to be an economic virus that I don't want spreading east, when it comes to its housing market, is all. ;-)

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

You mean economic dynamism and wealth is a failed leftist policy? Housing prices are primarily a function of supply and demand and zoning. Restrictive zoning ordinances exist everywhere, They haven't changed here much in decades (in fact, zoning rules have been slowly relaxing, and there are efforts to further roll them back). Why ignore elementary economic principles and fall back on a mindless mantra "its a symbol of failed leftist policies. " NIMBY-ism is very common all along the political spectrum, except for the far (socialist) left and (libertarian) right, and the far left is surprisingly weak in Silicon Valley and the Bay Area. The results are merely more obvious in economically strong areas.

oldandslow wrote:

You mean economic dynamism and wealth is a failed leftist policy? Housing prices are primarily a function of supply and demand and zoning. Restrictive zoning ordinances exist everywhere, They haven't changed here much in decades (in fact, zoning rules have been slowly relaxing, and there are efforts to further roll them back). Why ignore elementary economic principles and fall back on a mindless mantra "its a symbol of failed leftist policies. " NIMBY-ism is very common all along the political spectrum, except for the far (socialist) left and (libertarian) right, and the far left is surprisingly weak in Silicon Valley and the Bay Area. The results are merely more obvious in economically strong areas.

Leftist policy is harming the economic dynamism of the Valley. Jobs are being lost to other cities due to policy. I see it all around me in Seattle, with Google, Apple and Facebook all increasing their footprint here. Not only that, many startups are avoiding the bay area. The valley is unique, your mindless mantra of "restrictive zoning ordinances exist everywhere" shows you lack a clear understanding of the level of restrictions in place. Its like saying Boise and LA both have traffic issues. There is no law of supply and demand in the valley because of policies to increase demand and artificially suppress supply that is unique to the bay area. Office buildings are being built without housing to support the new jobs. Nowhere in the country comes close to the restrictive policies and I have mine and you can fuck-off mindset of the bay area.

Its so idiotic you can't build by BART stations.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/05/20000-new-homes-by-bart-stations-a-new-california-zoning-bill-aims-to-speed-building/


https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/03/sb-827/


This take is not far from the truth. Bay area housing policy are like Trump's wall:


https://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/youre-not-a-progressive-if-youre-also-a-nimby/Content?oid=13674523

Yeah.
Screw that!!
I would hate it:
If my house were worth 1.8 Million dollars.
If there were 100s of thousands of high paying jobs in the area.
If it always somewhere between 60-85 degrees.
If there were hundreds of beautiful parks, beeches, forest and mountains to visit.
Screw that!

Well, some folks here think that we could use a little less "economic dynamism" ;). That mantra has been stated for decades, such that it is surprising that anyone here (or in Seattle) iremainsat all! Same complaints could be levied against number of cities, but saying it flies in the face of nistory. BTW, Alert, restrictive zoning ISN'T a leftist policy. It is a policy fully embraced by both sides, with detractors on the extremes. You see it everywhere, it is merely more obvious where economic growth has raised housing values. The most reliable opponents to growth aren't the radical leftists (who only complain because they want guaranteed low-cost housing included), but the more conservative enclaves (San Mateo, Los Altos, Burlingame, Woodside, to name a few). This place has become intrinsically more conservative over the past decades, while folks from the outside have been fooled by a handful of Berzerkley protesters and a younger demographic.


FYI, I live near Redwood City, which has been building like crazy along the transit corridor for ~20 years, to the consternation of all sorts of my older friends across the political spectrum who pine for the "good ole days." (the political spectrum here is pretty much "fashionably liberal" to "fiscally conservative, yet socially moderate", which explains why everybody here gets along so well ;)

On the other hand, I am not contemplating the move from Tucson to the Bay Area.

An average house in Tucson.

https://www.zillow.com/...85712/61768593_zpid/


What that would get you in East Bay

https://www.zillow.com/...303/2096702187_zpid/

Well, George also included all natural resources held in the land. I don't think stock options would have gotten much of a rise from him.

I was surprised that the Bay Area was less Bernie-centric than the rest of the country. But when I think about it awhile I suppose it makes sense. My question now is what do you call the subset of Bernie supporters that aren't classified as Berzerkley bat-shit crazy?

Also, what started with N and ended with V?

Increased governmental regulation IS leftist policy. The government must inject itself into business and regulate it is leftism and its perfected in the Bay Area, especially environmental regulations.

https://www.bizjournals.com/...e-building-laws.html

Envy. I assume. But I’m not good at wordplay.

R U 2 BZ 4 NV?

Sometimes it is, sometimes it is not. Is increased military spending "leftist"? How about tariffs? Greater restrictions on immigration? Marijuana policy? Your blanket statement renders the term "leftist" meaningless.

The funny part is that the evil liberal state is trying to wrest control at this moment from local communities, which is apparently a "leftist" move (although many of these communities skew right) , and those senators are overturning leftist restrictions by enabling development, but the sponsors of increased development are the most liberal members in Sacramento. It all becomes very confusing when you stick to a over-simplified mantra.

NIMBYism is just as prevalent in conservative enclaves (strange, because local control of policy is always SOOO much better ;). BTW, you are right about the partial role of environmentalists, they found common cause with wealthy moderates. Their zero growth efforts increased commutes, carbon emissions and inequality. A law of unintended consequences mirrored by anti-tax folks who think that cutting taxes will reduce government when they only expand deficits and creates a greater need for government financial intervention.

Duh. Well, that's embarassing.

I have teenage daughters. I’m way past the point of feeling shame or embarrassment or stupid or...

Well, it runs a gamut, but at the Palo Alto Bernie rally, you see a whole lot of millennials and a bunch of aging hippies. Throw in those damn educated "elites" of all ages. Mostly white, except for yours truly. Unfortunately, I didn't see any antifa (wow, big surprise). In short, what you find at any Bernie rally.


Joke!

I have to agree with this guy! 110% spot on!

The Bay Area is a perfect example of Supply and Demand. Not some leftist b$^$#@$ whatever you just typed.
My parents moved to Foster City (a new city, with new construction) right in the middle of the SF Peninsula in 1979 from Detroit Mi.
The first round of Silcon Valley housing increases started about this time.
House in Detroit sold for 36k / Foster City 130k purchase. 4 years later we moved to So Cal sold for about 200k . I was 13 so my numbers might be a bit off.Today
that townhouse in Foster City is worth about $1million. It is inbetween SF and Silicon Valley prime real estate for a tech employee who makes a lot of $.

In 1979 to 1983 there was still undeveloped land on the peninsula ( Redwood Shores area where Oracle is now) close to Palo Alto. There was an area called East Palo Alto that was pretty much a ghetto of public low income housing. San Jose was the boonies, and undeveloped. Today San Jose is central and expensive. East Palo Alto expensive and I am pretty sure not a ghetto any longer.

As business grew in the area, more people moved onto the peninsula. There is a limited amount of space and access to that peninsula with essentially 1 or 2 freeways the 101 and 280. If you make good money you want to be close to work. In this case Palo Alto Sunnyvale SF etc housing went up.

The demand is high because of limited access. The area is surrounded on 3 sides by water. with 4 bridges and 2 freeways.
SF is nice place to live. good weather, good paying jobs etc. Just like every city has a nice area (Expensive) SF is that nice area for the US.

Supply (Limited) and Demand (High)

Nothing more.

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2017 Cervelo P2
2017 Cervelo S2
itraininla.com
#itraininla

Most of East Palo Alto is still ghetto, but they have an IKEA, Home Depot, Target, Nordstrom Rack, PGA Golf super store, and a bunch of offices filled with lawyers.

I have a bunch of friends who live in Mill Valley and Menlo Park. Once just rented his house after 20 years there and moved, the others are ready to go anytime or when the kids are out of school. They are all real estate millionaires but the crowds are just getting unbearable. When I go up to visit it gets worse each time and it is noticeable.

It must be nice to be able to sell you place and be able to live just about anywhere you want to go outside of Beverly Hills and La Jolla.. (-;