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Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes
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This just in. ITU and Ironman are now partnering up for many reasons such as growth of the sport and regulating rules. Im pondering on this speculation of them :

Working toward a single set of rules (ITU Competition Rules) for long-distance triathlon beginning in 2018

Originally from: http://eu.ironman.com/...u.aspx#ixzz4XMM2pf8x

Could this may mean LEGAL UCI bikes since ITU is under the UCI...

Wait and see !

Jonathan, fellow triathlete
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Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [JODIRT] [ In reply to ]
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I doubt that Ironman will throw it's sponsors under the bus and agree to any uniform rule on UCI compliant bikes ... e.g., "Ventum named official bike sponsor of the 2016 Ironman world championship." Follow the money!

I am a lot more interested in the meaning behind this: ... "ITU sanctioning select IRONMAN events as international events."

Does that mean that some Ironman events could eventually become the ITU World Long Course Championship ... realizing that venues are already set through 2019. And if it means something else, why would anyone care? I doubt more people would enter an Ironman simply because the ITU says WTC race X is now sanctioned. Huh?!
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Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [JODIRT] [ In reply to ]
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JODIRT wrote:
This just in. ITU and Ironman are now partnering up for many reasons such as growth of the sport and regulating rules. Im pondering on this speculation of them :

Working toward a single set of rules (ITU Competition Rules) for long-distance triathlon beginning in 2018

Originally from: http://eu.ironman.com/...u.aspx#ixzz4XMM2pf8x

Could this may mean LEGAL UCI bikes since ITU is under the UCI...

Wait and see !


Pretty sure WTC has all the power in this relationship - particularly when it comes to non-draft triathlon.. If they make a uniform rule on non-draft bike geometry it will be ITU going the way of WTC, not the other way around.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
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Last edited by: RowToTri: Jan 31, 17 11:03
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Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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Ironman will throw any sponsor under the bus for more money.

While it's great that the two get along, I don't trust Ironman are in for anything else but to solidify their monopoly on long distance racing.

Bye bye 4/120/30....
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Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
Ironman will throw any sponsor under the bus for more money.

While it's great that the two get along, I don't trust Ironman are in for anything else but to solidify their monopoly on long distance racing.

Bye bye 4/120/30....


Well, of course. My unstated assumption is that ITU isn't going to pay WTC because of this agreement. And I do not see any benefit to their bottomline to agree to UCI legal bikes.

Edit - Also, regarding 4/120/30 ... multifestival locations already locked in through 2019. Maybe you can say bye bye in 2020, but then are you suggesting that the WTC would host an ITU multifestival championship at an Ironman venue? Which gains WTC what?
Last edited by: HuffNPuff: Jan 31, 17 11:10
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Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
Edit - Also, regarding 4/120/30 ... multifestival locations already locked in through 2019. Maybe you can say bye bye in 2020, but then are you suggesting that the WTC would host an ITU multifestival championship at an Ironman venue? Which gains WTC what?

More money.
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Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
Pretty sure WTC has all the power in this relationship...

Ok, so what did I miss, Ed?

• Working towards ITU being recognized as the singular international federation leading the sport of triathlon
• The ITU sanctioning select IRONMAN events as international events
• The ITU leading coordination and communication with its member National Federations to implement standardized rules and reinforce the ITU's "Clean, Fair & Safe" mandate
• Working toward a single set of rules (ITU Competition Rules) for long-distance triathlon beginning in 2018

This is from the page linked above.


RowToTri wrote:
...particularly when it comes to non-draft triathlon.. If they make a uniform rule on non-draft bike geometry it will be ITU going the way of WTC, not the other way around.
But why wouldn't ITU just adopt UCI technical/equipment rules for NDL/long-course racing, as they have done with Standard, Sprint and SS races? Another example: rules for the passing zone, etc., could also be standardized this way (are you reading, Challenge?) since rules for ITT's have been established, etc.

Also, nice screen name. :)

no sponsors | no races | nothing to see here
Last edited by: philly1x: Jan 31, 17 12:42
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Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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Possibly, if WTC became the event organizer. But it's more complicated than that. ITU sends out solicitations for bids and various cities vie to host and organize. WTC owns neither the venues nor the permits, although it shouldn't be difficult for them to obtain by working with the cities that already host their events. I'll wait and see how this actually pans out...as in a better explanation of what it means when ITU sanctions an Ironman race. Last I checked, WTC is doing pretty well without their sanction.
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Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
Last I checked, WTC is doing pretty well without their sanction.

Absolutely. But gaining ITU world/euro/regional championship events would solidify their dominance.

Right now, independent races work hard to get those ITU events as it means big revenue for at least one year and maybe two (test events).

Case in point: Challenge Penticton which the owner gave up the date to the ITU race and moved CP to another date.
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Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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We are in violent agreement. I just don't know whether the ITU sanction will extend to granting WTC various championship events that they don't already have. I will be interested to see how this shakes out.
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Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [philly1x] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, I read the whole thing. You snipped only part of it and you missed what I think is the most important part:

  • The ITU sanctioning select IRONMAN events as international events

  • I think that yes, they do want to avoid some of the conflicts and surprises with rule differences that have ruined some people's races. But What does each party really get out of this? They both signed this MOU willingly. No one is being forced here. WTC will never tell their most loyal customers that the $7,000 bikes they all bought are now junk and they have to buy new ones. What benefit would they get from this? What leverage would ITU have to make them do this? I think it is mostly about the long distance world championships.

    Right now, the Ironman World Championships are considered by most to be the real one (cue the outrage from the ITU fans). And really it is. No disrespect to ITU LD world's competitors, but ITU treats it like the ugly stepchild. The shop it out to regional organizing committees and race directors instead of managing it themselves. They have repeatedly allowed officiating and course timing be so bad that blatant course cutters are winning world titles. The quality of the events, so I hear, are pretty low compared to IM and IM 70.3 worlds in terms of facilities, course, etc. And it is much easier to qualify for than Kona, leading to much less competitive fields.


    But the ITU feels they cannot acknowledge an event that they have nothing to do with as a World Championship, so they keep putting it on, even though they really don't want to. They care about short course and in particular draft-legal. Everything else is a distraction for them. But can they call themselves the legitimate international governing body when their position in the most popular form of triathlon - long course non-draft - is minuscule compared to Ironman?


    And Ironman would love for the official governing body to stop trying to compete with them and finally acknowledge their races as the real world championships.


    My guess is that is what this is about and that is what is coming.


    But what does that mean for selection to "Team USA" or other worlds AG teams? Would the NGB's still have control over it, or would it continue to be slots handed out at Ironman races as it is currently? If you race in Kona will you have to buy a crappy and overpriced TYR tri suit?

    -------------
    Ed O'Malley
    www.VeloVetta.com
    VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
    Instagram • Facebook
    Last edited by: RowToTri: Jan 31, 17 14:55
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    Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [JODIRT] [ In reply to ]
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    Awesome can't wait to try and find a place to store the Felt IA since it will be illegal
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    Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [JODIRT] [ In reply to ]
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    One thing to keep in mind is that both UCI and WTC would like a global rule book. USAT, the French federation and a few others have been against this. This is why the US has a snorkel rule and higher wetsuit temp rules than most of the rest of the world.

    EDIT: Wanda owns a race production company that's putting on a few ITU races as well.

    Brian Stover
    Accelerate3 Coaching
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    Last edited by: desert dude: Jan 31, 17 16:22
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    Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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    I for one, am most interested in what comes out of this part of the MOU:

    Working towards ITU being recognized as the singular international federation leading the sport of triathlon

    WTC agreeing to step back in terms of what they're doing that is what the ITU should do (rules, sanctioning events with world championship tags, etc)? I don't believe in this. So what exactly?
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    Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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    Diabolo wrote:
    I for one, am most interested in what comes out of this part of the MOU:

    Working towards ITU being recognized as the singular international federation leading the sport of triathlon

    WTC agreeing to step back in terms of what they're doing that is what the ITU should do (rules, sanctioning events with world championship tags, etc)? I don't believe in this. So what exactly?

    My 2 cents.....

    WTC at it's core, is a race production company. My sense is that they would rather not deal with the nuts and bolts related to rules, drug testing, ect. Those don't add to the bottom line.

    ITU is a governing body. My sense is that they would rather not deal with the nuts and bolts of putting on races. They don't do it well..

    And who's to say we won't see an IM distance in the Olympics some day......


    "Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
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    Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [JODIRT] [ In reply to ]
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    JODIRT wrote:
    This just in. ITU and Ironman are now partnering up for many reasons such as growth of the sport and regulating rules. Im pondering on this speculation of them :

    Working toward a single set of rules (ITU Competition Rules) for long-distance triathlon beginning in 2018

    Originally from: http://eu.ironman.com/...u.aspx#ixzz4XMM2pf8x

    Could this may mean LEGAL UCI bikes since ITU is under the UCI...

    Wait and see !

    I wasn't aware that ITU was under the UCI...
    Quote Reply
    Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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    ITU are not currently (or have ever been?) putting on/organising races. They use independent race organisations for this, and they sanction them.
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    Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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    RowToTri wrote:
    But can they call themselves the legitimate international governing body when their position in the most popular form of triathlon - long course non-draft - is minuscule compared to Ironman?
    Popular where? And yes, only ITU reports to the IOC. But you know this.
    RowToTri wrote:
    But ...And Ironman would love for the official governing body to stop trying to compete with them and finally acknowledge their races as the real world championships.
    They are a private company, like MLB, NFL, and NHL. Only the bottom line matters—cue ignoring doping/cheating for ratings/ROI/profit.
    RowToTri wrote:
    But ...But what does that mean for selection to "Team USA" or other worlds AG teams? Would the NGB's still have control over it, or would it continue to be slots handed out at Ironman races as it is currently?
    Why would there be a change in qualification?
    RowToTri wrote:
    But If you race in Kona will you have to buy a crappy and overpriced TYR tri suit?
    TYR is no longer the USAT sponsor.

    You did not ask the important question(s): what about lottery/charity/celebrity/corporate/legacy entries, etc.?

    As of now, basically, anyone can buy their way into IM races, including Kona/Chattanooga, right? This is not so—AFAIK—with ITU events, for which one has to qualify to race.

    no sponsors | no races | nothing to see here
    Last edited by: philly1x: Jan 31, 17 18:53
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    Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [philly1x] [ In reply to ]
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    With regards to buying your way into ITU events, sure you can. At least, Canadians can. Even if you didn't even race at a qualifying event (never mind actually qualifying at one), you can put your name on a list, forget if its charity or whatever, and they will let you on the team. I believe you have to pay twice the entry fee or something like that, plus the usual cost of the team kit, etc.

    Here, check out 'stage 3' of the qualifying process....

    http://www.triathloncanada.com/.../itu_ag_team/worlds/
    Last edited by: SBRcoffee: Jan 31, 17 21:24
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    Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [philly1x] [ In reply to ]
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    philly1x wrote:
    TYR is no longer the USAT sponsor.

    You did not ask the important question(s): what about lottery/charity/celebrity/corporate/legacy entries, etc.?

    As of now, basically, anyone can buy their way into IM races, including Kona/Chattanooga, right? This is not so—AFAIK—with ITU events, for which one has to qualify to race.
    I like that distinction for Championship races... earning your way in and I'm happy about the possibility of Roka making a better kit than the TYR one.

    That said and more on thread topic, it will be interesting to see how the ITU and Ironman partnership affect the sport. I could toss out some theories but I'll just wait and see how things shake out.
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    Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [xeon] [ In reply to ]
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    Finally legally drafting during ironman!
    Can't wait to ride 180k in the peloton.
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    Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [ In reply to ]
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    philly1x wrote:
    RowToTri wrote:
    But If you race in Kona will you have to buy a crappy and overpriced TYR tri suit?
    TYR is no longer the USAT sponsor.

    While the TYR suit may be overpriced and they had a color problem this year only, it is not a crappy suit.

    But then Kona is Iroman's world championship, not Triathlon's world championship so you could wear whatever they say is legal.
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    Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
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    SBRcoffee wrote:
    With regards to buying your way into ITU events, sure you can. At least, Canadians can. Even if you didn't even race at a qualifying event (never mind actually qualifying at one), you can put your name on a list, forget if its charity or whatever, and they will let you on the team. I believe you have to pay twice the entry fee or something like that, plus the usual cost of the team kit, etc.

    Here, check out 'stage 3' of the qualifying process....http://www.triathloncanada.com/.../itu_ag_team/worlds/[/quote[/url]]

    I'm not sure if you are speaking only to this year's multifestival in Canada, but I believe that the host country gets many more slots per AG than other participating nations. I've raced ITU Long Course Worlds in Sweden and Holland, and talking to athletes from those countries, I understand that extra slots were allocated to each Tri-Club in the nation...or some such.
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    Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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    I think WTC has already had influence on which bikes are allowed in ITU racing. During Redman (LC worlds) my Dimond was ruled illegal despite the rule book stating that the frame had to be "built around a diamond shape" and that bikes with "no down seat tube are acceptable". However, Ventum was on the list of approved bikes. Coincidence?
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    Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [alaska848] [ In reply to ]
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    The bike aspect could be interesting as currently a number of Iron man legal bikes are not ITU legal. Venture is onlying company that I am aware of that has worked with the ITU to sanction their bike.

    I have been riding a Titanflex for several years but it is not ITU legal and in the UK British Triathlon adopts ITU rules and now I can not ride my Titanflex at local races, having asked and checked with British Triathlon.

    I asked Titanflex if they would be approaching the ITU to see if their frame could be sanctioned but I do not know if they have or are going to.

    I'm sure if Ironman was to come under ITU rules the big bike companies would seek approval in the same way that Venture has done.

    Currently Imy looking to get a new frame or bike because of this.

    http://www.tri-monkey.co.uk
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    Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [alaska848] [ In reply to ]
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    Sorry to hear you had issues at LC Worlds last year.

    WTC has nothing to do with ITU bike approvals. Ventum went through a very lengthy process with the ITU to get the Ventum approved to race in ITU non-drafting races including LC Worlds. Many events in Canada and Europe require that an athletes bike needs to meet the ITU bike regulations even when the event is not ITU sanctioned.

    The ITU focused mainly on structural testing and we met all their requirements amongst many other things we had to send a random sample of each frame size to be tested by an independent lab in Switzerland. Although this was a very tedious and lengthy process, it was very clear to us at the start of this venture that ITU approval would be crucial to our sales, specifically to sales outside of North America. We are the first non-traditional or non-triangular bike to be approved and the process started many months prior to LC Worlds or our partnership with WTC.

    JImmy Seear
    Co-Founder Ventum
    http://www.ventumracing.com
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    Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [RLB] [ In reply to ]
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    I believe the P5X is also now legal:

    http://www.triathlon.org/...titions_20161215.pdf

    I'm hoping that opens the doors for the other non-traditional bike frames. Now that Cervelo and Ventum are legal, hard to believe that this new 'partnership' would reverse that trend?
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    Re: Ironman and ITU now partners. Legal tt bikes [JODIRT] [ In reply to ]
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    I see a huge positive in this... One set of rules benefits everyone... Some Ironman races are already sanctioned through local associations (for example Muskoka 70.3 (and the full when it existed) were run under Triathlon Ontario sanction)... Having everything under ITU rules makes it easier for participants to only have to know one set of rules to follow.

    ITU has never been under the UCI, however, they often reference the UCI's rules. In regards to bikes, they have never mandated the UCI stickers, just that bikes meet the UCI definition of a bicycle, and that those who don't need to seek exemptions as non-traditional frames as Ventum, and now the new Cervelo have done. With one year before a common set of LD tri rules come in, the announcement serves as notice... I suspect that most frame non-traditional frame manufacturers serious about IM racing will likely be pursuing ITU exemptions, since otherwise the writing may be on the wall for their continued presence... The first hurdle for some of these frames was removed with the removal of the disc brake ban for all draft illegal tri...

    In terms of championships, seeing as the Multisport festival is essentially being organized through Challenge, I could see WTC wanting a piece of the pie. Kona will likely never be the ITU LD World championships, because it's too much of a cash cow for WTC. not to mention, IM is longer than the prescribed ITU LD distances... So Kona could keep it's Ironman WC status... WTC would likely want to maintain the distinction, since the ITU moves their championships around, and folding IM into that would mean that some years Kona would not have the WC label... What it could mean is ITU officials in Kona and other WTC races, potentially the use of IM local organizers/venues to host ITU events, etc.

    There's a lot of potential benefit from this, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out, but it will make official's jobs easier when there's one set of rules for all events, since athletes will only need to know one set of guidelines, and would be less likely to commit violations at the intersection of the rule sets out of confusion...
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