i'm not a big specialized fan but...WOW!

hum need more pics, those angles suck,

interesting build though lots of mass up front on the frame, kinda odd like a reversal P4 of something

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http://talesofthemissing.wordpress.com/

The front end looks an awful lot like the new(ish) Giant TT bike.

I AM a Specialized fan but my first reaction is that's not a Specialized bike...

I'm sure we'll find out sooner or later!

Travis
dumb blog

That thing does look pretty Slippery. I can't wait to hear Cervelo fan come in here and start bashing Specialized.

Always tough to get excited about a 7 million assembly line run of something that essentially does not matter....

It's not about the bike.....

Specialized is AWESOME!!! The sloped bar is destined to die sooner or later--although I still love it.

I love the way Specialized seems to attack every little thing on their bikes and isn't afraid to change it up and add proprietary components. They aren't the only innovators...but I think they are some of the leaders.

Hard to believe that the headtube of that bike will pass muster with the UCI's 3:1 aspect ratio rule.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Looks like a new Prologo saddle as well?

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"There is no charge for awesomeness or attractiveness." Po "The Dragon Warrior", Kung-Fu Panda

To paraphrase Inigo Montoya, "You keep using that phrase...I do not think it means what you think it means."

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

 
Hmmm...I wonder what kind of "aero road bike" will be revealed before July... ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I can promise you, it's a Specialized. And I can also promise you they've done their homework - it'll be fast.

HAHA! I just deleted the sentence containing that very fact from my last reply. :-)

 
Looks like there's a frontal view from during the buildup on the same Flickr account with the other pics:

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

then break the human powered vehicle hour record with a round tube non recumbent bike

=)

I've zoomed in on this image in ms paint and its pretty nice looking.

the top tube is not sloped, really, up top it is flat.
the front brake is shielded by a big ass front fairing

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Cancellara is going to ride the same kick ass TTs on that bike that he would on a Cervelo or a Pinarello or a DeRosa...

Except he will be far cooler on a Specialized.

That thing does look just like the giant

Sure...but all things being equal, he's going to be faster or slower than he would be otherwise depending on the given frame. Simple physics.

It's funny, you act as if he won World TT championships and ProTour level TTs on frames that are considered "aerodynamic wrecks" relative to the other riders or something...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

A couple more pics on flicker http://www.flickr.com/...0347/in/photostream/

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Ride it like I stole it.

It's funny, you act as though there's a major difference between frames so that Frank Schleck could beat him if only he had a Cervelo, - wait a minute.....

depends on if the frame is lighter, has different stiffness properties, behaves differently over bumps etc... taking one turn slightly differently is enough to skew the affects of a whole series of frames, that are essentially the same.

soooo if Cervelo's seat post isnt legal... how is the front end of that going to be legal?? just a question.

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Grant
----------------------------------------------------
Proudly sponsored by Desoto Sports
Please Support CAF every little bit helps http://raceforareason.kintera.org/grantreuter

I repeat, "You keep using that phrase...I do not think it means what you think it means".

Besides, what part of "all things being equal" don't you understand??

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

phew ... this sucker looks like a hyrid Giant/P4/Slice/BCF_track bike .... lethal if allowed by the UCI ....

Sorry Tom,

Uh, I thought that we were talking about two different frames. I agree, all things being equal, - he'll rock.

Here's a phrase:

Holy Headtube, Batman.

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________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

No, I'm sorry, as I originally implied, but didn't repeat in the last post, I meant all other things being equal besides the frame.

But, that's OK...now I understand what part of it you can't comprehend. Got it ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

You could add the Scott Plasma 3 in there too.

Seriously, we are either seeing a confluence of different design philosophies, or all these companies are fishing ideas from the same DNA pool.

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ADW

It's silly.

You're an aero guy who has done a lot of great work. So, - I'll respect that and shut up. All of these TT bike frames are excellent in my book and are so close to each other where it counts that I find it very hard to believe that Pinarello's $20,000 bike is "faster" or "slower" than Specialized, Cervelo, or whatever...
But I haven't tested any like you have.

looks like a P2C Giant combo. I guess imitation is a true form of flattery.

I am happy to see the current Specialized piece of crap tt bike may be replaced sooner than later.

It's funny you use the Pinarello as an example to compare to the other 2 brands...especially since the comparative cost/benefit ratio is actually negative! ;-)

But...it sure is "purdy"...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

If it would be possible for him to race against a clone of him (same age, same training, same position, same everything else but the bike) I would bet he could not beat him unless he was riding a more aerodynamic bike.

Now if Cancellara shows up significantly stronger in a particular race, I can imagine that he could bet him in a De Rosa or Pinarello.

A slight difference between bikes is a slight difference but sometimes enough to win or loose a TT.

Sergio

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Note: English is not my first language. Please read this translated post considering that.

"all other things being equal" is a bit of a sticky one. as you alluded to over on a different forum, many of the euro tt courses are "technical". so part of being equal is how well the bike handles. for example, my p3c rode so straight that you barely had to hang on. otoh, my new transition handles way better around corners. if the frames are aero equals, my bet is that i'll be faster on a turny tt on the transition by being able to stay in the drops more or take corners at higher speeds. so while aero is obviously a huge factor, a bike's handling ability also certainly comes into play (at least for those technical courses).

You can play chicken or egg...or you can realize the genius of leaving everything behind to create something that takes the best characteristics of everything! Thing positive, man!

One other interesting comparison with Cervelo: C made that p4 design and I still have not heard of any pros using it. Gotta love the way Specialized has this out immediately.

i guess this means that specialized's very weak argument supporting the sloped top tube (it "channeling" the air or something) on the SBI transition was not 90% fairy tale, it was 100% fairly tale ....

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Where would you want to swim ?

I think everyone owning a transition will be a bit upset. Will be interesting to see if Macka gets one..

The bikes rear end and tt remind me of the Time.

Glad you brought up The Time. I remember back in the day when they came out with "The Bird". Man...that was a good song to dance to.

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ADW

Are you implying that Christiane Soeder doesn't get paid to race bikes?

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Here's a better image:

 
Anyone want to make an "over/under" bet on how long it is until "bayonet" style fork designs are deemed illegal by the the UCI?

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

sure: as long as Jean Wauthier is the technical adviser, and as long as Look is making a 'bayonet' style fork, it won't be deemed illegal.

that said, that headtube 'stiffener' seems to really violate the spirit of the rule (as does the Giant), and I'm having a hard time seeing how that's legal.

Nothing to do with this picture, but were you one of the guys on top of the hill in Lubbock?

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Brawndo's got what plants crave. Brawndo's got electrolytes. And that's what plants crave. They crave electrolytes. Which is what Brawndo has. And that's why plants crave Brawndo. Not water, like from the toilet.

Hehe...good point ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Oh, not me personally. I was stuck in California being a good student. (BOOO!)

Kristin Armstrong is racing one as well. According to the mini-documentary put out by Cervelo, her numbers are faster than any of the pro guy's.

I think that "technically", the Bayonet-style is legal because it is two structures - the fork and the headtube junction. By keeping each part under 3:1, it is supposed to skirt around the rule.

Even you people who don't believe in physics have to admit that showing up on a wicked-fast machine on raceday is a confidence booster, and a confident racer will be able to push harder than a shaky one.

Don't want to get off-topic but i wonder why is it that there are no pro roadies riding P4s? (Soeder was on it briefly and i dont think Armstrong races that bike) I wonder if perhaps UCI has something to do with it? hmm.... maybe something that has to do with that rear brake cover? oh... i wonder.

Back on topic though: lets hope that this Giant/Whatever hybrid pleases the bosses at UCI and this bikes gets to see some UCI races.

-c

Bringing up Macca to poo-foo the now older Transition geometry doesn't really work. Macca destroyed the competition on that bike!

I think the main reason that Specialized went to the non-sloped tube is for fit purposes. Not my words only, but also those of the great Tom Demerly (via phone conversation...he's more of an expert than me anyway.) The different geometry should simplify the bike and make it more universal.

The whole point of compact geometry was to allow mfgs to produce fewer frame sizes and save some $$ in tooling and inventory costs. Now that Specialized has seen that there is a real market for these bikes, I'm betting they realized that they'd need to ante up to a full range of frame sizes like Cervelo has.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

I'd like to see some close ups of that front brake, looks like quite a clever solution

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nec rege, nec populo, sed utroque

All other things being equal, a sloping top tube 'compact' frame will be lighter than a standard frame of the same size. It'll be more comfortable too thanks to the inbuilt flexibility of the huge seat post.


Ah dammit - I just used that 'equal' phrase ;-)

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"Here's how you run a marathon. Step 1: You start running. Step 2: There is no step 2." - Barney (How I Met Your Mother)

Boy, all the big bike builders keep one-upping each other here lately in the TT design arena. I can hardly wait to see what Trek brings to the table soon, as well as others.

I guess Specialized saw the gap in sales and wanted to close it. It will be interesting to see what pricepoints they use. I think they need to go down by $500 to compete more effectively with Cervelo for the regular rider. But no one ever lowers their prices so at best we can hope they will stay the same.

Thanks for that better image.

I can't wait to get a good look at the rear of that bike. Those seatstays look sick! It looks to me like they absolutely hug that disc right down to the cassette before the flare out. That would have interesting wheel choice implications. Don't dump your flat discs!

Must be something special if it takes 7 guy to build it up.

I know, I know, we need to see what the drag numbers are on the bike in the wind tunnel. But assuming they are on pair with the P4 (according to ST), this is what a fast TT bike is suppose to look like. This thing just look fast standing still.

Those water bottle bosses look low, how does Specialized expect us to be able to reach down and grab a bottle while riding? ;-)

I guess they expect a triathlete to know how to handle a bike.

What is the def. of a 'bayonet' style fork?

the bottle holders don't look low, the top tube looks high, that is not pink text either

And damn, how the hell are we supposed to strap a bento box on to that??!

You strap it onto your seatpost backwards. I can not even believe you had to ask. SHEEESH

Yes the top tube is higher than normal because it's the same height as the stem. The stem is not mounted above the top tube like a normal bike.

True, but I'm often surprised when watching the pros do TTs; how significant the victories are: rarely are they super close. And I'm not too sure how we can attribute those slight differences due to the bike; and secondarily, to the aero-ness of the bike. When you watch the difference between a really good TT rider and a not so good one, - it's almost NEVER due to the bike.


I agree with what Carl Spackler said below:

We've been through this debate before, and I don't want to revisit it, - especially up against TomA's good testing methodologies and science.

However, Carl has a great point in that Aero is not the only concern of a bike manufacturer in a TT bike; and certainly not in a road bike, - where Aero is EVEN LESS a concern than a TT bike. I believe that I'm riding the best manufacturer of road bikes, due to their front fork construction and ability to HELP the RIDER maintain a fixed line on the road. Even Time is making their road frames more aero and look like TT bikes.

To a certain degree, there is and end point where the cost of making the frame more aero outweighs other considerations, - like weight and handling.

Lastly, no matter what frame anyone rides, real world riding comes into play here. A pro time trialist has the ability to handle course idiosyncrasies much better than any of us. Aero position ALWAYS is more important than bike topology. It is better for us to ride a LESS AERO bike that is more stable, even with a more slack Aero position, and be able to stay in that position longer, than to have a more Aero bike and constantly be getting out of the aero position. We can say all things being equal, but all things NEVER are in the real world. Everything matters, but no one does everything, so we have to weigh the things that are most important first, then move on down the road. Ride harder.

How many guys does it take to build up a Specialized TT bike?













7
6 guys drinking the wine and 1 guy building up the bike.

People were saying that the P4 looks almost 2D, so what does it make this bike? 1.5D?
All the other bike manufactures must just be saying 'Oh crap, now what?'

The photographer from SRAM can't tell the difference between Andy and Fränk.
If he can't tell them apart by looking at their faces he can just look at their jerseys; only Fränk is the current national champion of Luxembourg.
(Although Fränk is not the TT champ but only but RR champ. Kim Kirchen is the current TT champ of Luxembourg).

Do all new TT bikes have to be black with white lettering?

Cancellara rode the new Specialized TT frame in the prologue of Tour de Romandie today: http://grahamwatson.com/...orm&09romandiePr
Also notice he use a Zipp Sub-9 rear wheel. Before this CSC/Saxo has been riding flat Zipp 900 disc wheels both on their Cervélo P3C last year and Specialized Transition so far this year.



http://cyclingnews.com/...=results/romandie090
He only finished 11th which is a bit disappointing for a short 3.1 km prologue like this where he often dominates everyone else, and this was even on homecourt in Switzerland.
Of course in short prologues like this the margins are very small and it only takes one mistake to lose a few seconds and drop severals places in the ranking, and 5 seconds isn't much.
Maybe he has to get used to his new TT bike too.

Um, really I am interested in this new super bike - but check out those right quads on Cancellara!!! Yikes.

You bet I am, but oh well.

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http://bryanlh.blogspot.com/

Cancellara's placing is probably due to being sick, and then getting injured so he missed all the racing of the spring classics. It goes to show that even the fastest bike design doesnt matter if the form isnt there. I guess all other things werent equal today.
Funny that Valverde beat him on his Pinarello, Piti must have been getting more treatments........

Kevin

New Walser?

A few conspiracy theories...

1. Whomever is developing the new Uber-TT bike, whether it be Giant, Scott, Specialized or Brand "X" wanted to have the best TT Rider put it through real world conditions...so, they contracted with him to do just that?

2. Since we have now seen VERY SIMILAR bikes with Giant, Scott and Specialized floating around, there is a mole out there selling the secrets to the highest bidder? Who will get to market first?

I seem to recall Cervelo having filed some type of design sketches which showed something similar to the front end we now see prior to developing the P4?

3. Perhaps all three (Giant, Scott & Specialized) are all working for someone else to help develop the new stealth-drone fighter to be shipped over to Afghanistan as part of the Government's new special project. They are all working on a piece of the puzzle but they don't know how or when it will all be put together and for what use.

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"There is no charge for awesomeness or attractiveness." Po "The Dragon Warrior", Kung-Fu Panda

And here are some close ups pics I took yesterday at the tour de Romandie.



And one more :



And one another :



Very nice and clean setup ;-)

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Thanks for that. That front brake is rad, back brake is whatever but whats up with the GIGANTOR BB!!!

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nec rege, nec populo, sed utroque

Let me be the first to say his chain is on the granny gear. I wonder when this will be released to the masses. Hopefully its in a couple of years, so when Im ready for a new bike, the current transitions will hopefully be cheaper.

Cleanest cabling I have ever seen - very nice. If cancellara was serious he would dump the small ring, front shifter and all the cabling, and use some custom carbon chain guide. theres got to be a few grams there.

Lets hope cancellara gets fit and starts ripping like he used too

well, yeah, we're all obligated to follow the same rules: UCI and fluiddynamics.

As a few others have said, eventually all bikes developed within the two rules above will look strikingly similar. As others have said, while new, it is not unique, and actually, that is a testament to the design, not a drawback. Don't you wonder why it is radically different than the Transition?

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

i see your point but apparently the transition was quite aerodynamic even according to Gerard.

Dan
http://www.aiatriathlon.com

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http://www.aiatriathlon.com

When the bar was set ~700grams of drag, yes it was, those were bikes designed in '05/'06


There is a new standard.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Maybe 525g at zero yaw?

The front end seems incredibly wide. Close to 100mm. I wonder if they went that wide simply to bury the front brake. We'll wait to see drag numbers but that's strange to says the least.

Francois in Montreal

probably designed to work with the new "wider is better" rims from Hed and Zipp ;-)

If it takes a wide front end to stop flow separation then give me the wide option. Flow separation is approx 4x more important than skin friction (numbers may be off by a bit, but it gives a good idea).

So much speculation, so little time. :-)

you know that was a "pink font" post, right? Just checking. :-)

If it takes a wide front end to stop flow separation then give me the wide option.

A wide front end is more likely to induce flow separation unless you have a huge trailing edge (which this frame provide to a certain extent), not counting the increased surface area. May be this works as well as Cervelo's narrow front but they are going at it much differently. Anyway, as Herbert said, it's all speculation until we see some drag numbers, and even then, we'll still speculate on the numbers...

Francois in Montreal

eventually someone is just going to cut a bike shape of carbon fibre sheet

One thing that does fascinate and my musings for the day

why is the front end shot so important ?? as in a perfect world im sure cutting head long into the wind is great and if the wind is behind even better

would removing the great big aerofoil down tube and replacing it with a 6 dia tie rod be as aerodynamic as im sure ist would be uci legal

does the price tag of the 8k wonderbike put you off...and does it make folks much faster than the 2k bike they just shelled out on

It looks totally bad ass and totally unaffordable for me.

Thank you for the pictures, these are great!

This is very similar to what I've been working on for my Softride, though that is a whole other can of worms, since the head tube is almost 17cm tall. Front brake is hidden (although not as custom and well fitted as this). The up side to mine is that it holds 60 oz of fluid as well.

Chris

I've adopted a "wider is better" approach to nutrition these last few years ... the results are not encouraging :-(

How is that not a huge honkin' fairing for the head tube? I've gotta scratch my head and wonder how the UCI blesses that and disses a 3T Ventus aerobar. You've gotta love the UCI.

I'm surprised he's not using Look pedals.

Yeah, sorry, I missed out that element of my thinking out loud! I'd rather have a wide front end with a large trailing edge if that lowers pressure drag. The increase in skin friction will not be that significant.

My point was that people tend to assume that a wide front end makes a rubbish frame. I believe that head tube diameter isn't the most important thing.

Hasn't Fabian and CSC/Saxo been using speedplays for a long time now?

Or wheelcovers ... aye gotta love Jean Wauthier

When will Felt have a bike that meets the new standard?

-JM

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_________________________________________________________________
"Know how to get into the pain hole......you can go faster then you think." - 596

Tuesday.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

When will it come to market?

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"There is no charge for awesomeness or attractiveness." Po "The Dragon Warrior", Kung-Fu Panda

oh, that'll be on a Monday.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Better ~15 y late than never, right? ;-)

(Hooker broke the 700 g barrier back in the mid-90's.)

and in the mid 90s, the barrier was ~500g again...

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

So far we have seen prototypes from:Giant, Scott, Specialized and Kestrel. I really curious to see what felt is working on. Sure the DA is a great bike, hell Dave Z doesnt seem to do so bad on it, but they got to be working on something.

Not moving forward with bike design is not the same as standing still.

I await the new bike on opening day of the TdF.

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"Here's how you run a marathon. Step 1: You start running. Step 2: There is no step 2." - Barney (How I Met Your Mother)

Clarification...when will it be available to the consumer market and available at the LBS?

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"There is no charge for awesomeness or attractiveness." Po "The Dragon Warrior", Kung-Fu Panda

Must be something special if it takes 7 guy to build it up.

I rember a few years ago dropping in at the Bike Barn in Penticton in the week before IMC and watching the guys building up Lori Bowden's old Cheetah - pratically took them all day and then, I think a part was broken and they had to have it air-expressed in from somewhere else which took another day. I admit these bikes are cool and great looking but there is something that is nice about the standard bike build - it's easy to put together and if something is busted, you can get a replacement at just about any decent bike shop.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

just call him Frandy Schleck and that'll do it.

Cancellara had an extra set of armrest pads added between the prologue and team time trial.

http://www.tourderomandie.ch/...rse/etape1/index.lbl


http://cyclingnews.com/...=results/romandie093



2009 Tour de Romandie - Prologue
http://www.dotcycling.com/main/category/galleries
http://www.flickr.com/...ts/72157617448516232


2009 Tour de Romandie - Stage 3 - Team Time Trial - Yverdon Les Bains
http://www.flickr.com/...ts/72157617565737374

I'm a little late to the party, but ...

In my local TT series, over the last 3 races myself, and another rider have been 1, 2 in our AG. Total distance over the 3 races about 52 miles. I've won 2 he has won 1. Total cumulative time differential is 6 seconds in his favor.

My thinking is neither of us would turn down the newest TT bikes or wheels that the pros have if offered ;-)

Styrrell

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Styrrell

Where is the new Felt? Can you share anything with us since it is Tuesday?

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"There is no charge for awesomeness or attractiveness." Po "The Dragon Warrior", Kung-Fu Panda

downstairs. yes.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

hahaha you're awesome. This gets funnier as it goes on.

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Grant
----------------------------------------------------
Proudly sponsored by Desoto Sports
Please Support CAF every little bit helps http://raceforareason.kintera.org/grantreuter

I can't beat that....


So, can you post pictures and/or provide any more detailed and/or technical information that may or may not be useful; including, but not limited to any and all photos, information (written or oral), press releases and any other items which may be deemed reasonable and relevant to the request not covered in the above regarding a new Felt TT and/or Triathlon frame or bike, which may or may not exist for either professional or consumer individuals that are or not related to Felt Bicycles ;-)

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"There is no charge for awesomeness or attractiveness." Po "The Dragon Warrior", Kung-Fu Panda

New Specialized Transition is supposed to be in stores starting in August.

First victory for Cancellara on the new Specialized TT bike.
He completely dominated the Tour de Suisse 7.8km short TT.
19 seconds ahead of the runner up on a 7.8km TT course in the last stage-race just before the National Championships and TdF is a lot.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/...id=results/suisse091


Notice how he has raised the extension bars a lot since his last race.
Looks like some un-aero square alloy blocks were uses to raise his position.













Initial position:


Andy Schleck's spacers looked more aero:



And Fränk Schleck's too:

I find it quite humorous to think that they didn't know his fit coordinates and/or weren't able to transfer them to his new bike prior to the first use...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I find it quite humorous to think that they didn't know his fit coordinates and/or weren't able to transfer them to his new bike prior to the first use...

You've never tried anything different? Dang ... It's rare if I race my bike in the same configuration twice. I'm always trying something new. Cancellara has expreimented with a few position changes over the years. I recall a few years back when he showed up with the mantis thing goin' on at the Tour of California prologue. That disappeared pretty fast.

perhaps those aero spacers are too flimsy for him so he tried to go without at first? Or he tried for a more aggressive position to match his more aggressive bike?

Dan
http://www.aiatriathlon.com

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http://www.aiatriathlon.com

I read somewhere that Cancellara received two different frame sizes of the new TT-frame to test out.
Maybe the bike with the spacers use the smaller of the two frames and the previous position without spacers is on the larger frame.

I think that disappearance was a result of UCI rule enforcement or interpretation (or misinterpretation).

Rik

A dominating performance given he averaged 31.2mph! Good to see him coming into good form in time for the Tour as he had an unlucky start to the season. Last year it would have been all over Slowtwitch, but with the change to Specialized from Cervelo it barely gets a blink.

Kevin

perhaps if specialized as giving to the slowtwitch community in term of participation, there would be more excitement? Who is the owner of specialized? the engineers? How often do they post or reply to questions? I only know one rep...Ian.

So, i guess cervelo is part of the slowtwitch family. I think that explain a lot the popularity of the company here.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

He even had time to raise his hands and celebarte the stage and GC victory before he crossed the line. Just like someone would do if they crossed the line alone in a mass start stage.

It was the second fastet TT stage in the history of Tour de Suisse (disregardig the prologues/short stage 1 TTs). Only stage 6 in 1994 was faster when Chris Boardman won with an avarage speed of 52.254 km/h 0:45 ahead of #2 Gianluca Pierobon): http://www.tds.ch/...atistik_tds_2009.pdf

http://sporten.tv2.dk/...php/id-23176054.html




http://www.tds.ch/...uisse/bildergalerien

it's nice that you drink the cervelo kool aid since they sponsor you and all. and maybe since gerard posts here on st the company is so well regarded by triathletes. otoh, outside of the pro peloton, cervelo does very little for the cycling community beyond jacking everyone up for full price, where specialized sponsors dozens? of smaller teams. so before you start talking down about other companies maybe you ought to get a wider scope on what some of them actually do.

i wasnt talking down the company. Sorry if it s the way you saw it?

I said, if the company is a member of the board and post...it does make people feel like part of them. That explain why some company like cervelo, felt, nineteen wetsuits, desoto, etc and a few others are popular here.

I never critize specialized about what they do or not...simply explain why people like some company more than other HERE ON ST....


your a little grumpy i think today????

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

why does it make you so mad that cervelo is one of the few copanies that builds their bike on real engineering principles and that ST recognizes this fact?

=)

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Cervélo sponsored Cycling School FPD Víctor Sastre for for several years because Carlos Sastre made the contact through Team CSC: http://www.fundacionpdvictorsastre.com
Looks like they are sponosred by Giant this season though.

Cervélo also sponosr the Velokhaya formed by Cape Town's Life Cycling Academy (LCA) in South Africa: http://www.velokhaya.com

And they sponosr the female team that is now part of Cervélo Test Team.

Dozens? Really? They sponsor the DU and CSU, which means they get accessories (helmets, bars, etc) for 20% off. Bikes for CSU are through a local shop at cost + some.

Who else? Check this out:
http://www.specialized.com/...Team.jsp?teamId=ROAD

Quick Step,
Saxo Bank,
Lampre (wait, those are Wilier!),
Silence (those are canyon bikes!),
USA National U23 (wait, they ride Blue!),
California Giant Cycling (uh oh! giant!).
Oh, and Team Specialized. They ride Specialized. ;)

Apparently, Specialized does a lot more than Cervelo, because Specialized also makes accessories, which they offer to other teams!

i can think of 3 other small teams in northern cal alone that specialized gives deals to, so yes, it's probably a dozen or more by the time you add them all up.

jack, help me out. where did i point to cervelo's approach to design and engineering in my response?

And the HotTube junior team in the past, the (U23?) team that included Rinehart's younger brother, individual athletes such as my wife, etc.

16 are listed here, including colleges and non-profit orgs. http://www.specializedriders.com/...ms?page=1&search[country_id]=223&search[discipline]=&search[location]=&search[type]=team

and as mentioned earlier, i can think of three other teams (smaller regional & masters) in northern cal alone that are sponsored by specialized.

"outside of the pro peloton, cervelo does very little for the cycling community beyond jacking everyone up for full price, where specialized sponsors dozens? of smaller teams. so before you start talking down about other companies maybe you ought to get a wider scope on what some of them actually do."

i think there are two ways companies "give back." one way is through advocacy, i think some of the biggest companies (specialized, trek, and nowadays SRAM is the notable example) do that quite well; and another is by sponsoring athletes. i'm quite sure specialized does more of that in road, and cervelo does more of that in tri. i think that's to be expected, since cervelo is bigger than specialized in tri, and specialized is bigger than cervelo in road. all that aside, it might be best to consider that specialized is probably somewhere between 10 and 20 times the size of cervelo, it might be fair to consider that before one compares cervelo's road team sponsorships with those of specialized.

but then, nobody compares with specialized when it comes to road sponsorships. i'm guessing (based on what folks have told me who sponsor these and other pro teams) that specialized spends in cash well more than any other bike company to sponsor, in the aggregate, saxo bank, quickstep and ISD. some specialized folks monitor this forum, maybe they can disabuse me of my error if my guess is far afield. i don't know if that's in the category of "giving back" to the cycling community. if so, yes, you're right, specialized is the king of giving back ;-)

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Hmmm...I thought that according to the "clarification" discussed last week that "non-production" or bikes that couldn't be bought "on the open market" (i.e. from custom builders) weren't allowed??

I understand that the "reprieve" on the 3:1 AR enforcement was pushed out January 2010 (with the exception of bars which will start July 1, 2009), but does that mean that the requirement for "offset fork" shapes to fit within the head tube template is pushed off until next year too?

Man, the "selective enforcement" is really out of hand with those guys... ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

i wouldn't characterize paid sponsorship of pro cycling teams as 'giving back.' both cervelo and specialzied (and felt, trek, etc) cover that ground. rather, specialized sponsors many small cycling clubs (that will never appear on the versus or cycling news), colleges, non-profits, jr development team, etc. by way of deals and discounts. cervelo wins the popularity contest here on st but is less visible in other parts of the sporting universe.

"cervelo wins the popularity contest here on st but is less visible in other parts of the sporting universe."

pardon, i thought you were against "talking down" other companies. i don't know what you mean by "popularity contest," but it sounds like you're talking down cervelo. or do you mean that you just don't like certain companies talked down?

i think specialized and cervelo are each popular on slowtwitch, and i don't think it's because of some sort of subversive contest cervelo is running, i think each company earns its popularity through robust corporate performance.

a decade ago cannondale was roundly criticized by a lot of people in the industry because of the sorts of sponsorships i think you're talking about: basically cutting out the retailers and selling bikes at wholesale or below, directly to uscf club-team members. i don't think c'dale was "giving back," i think it was a shrewd move to get bikes under a critical mass of fast riding local decision makers.

i don't know if specialized is doing these sorts of sponsorships. but if they are, i don't think those tactics are bad. they're tough tactics. they're smart tactics. but i don't think it's charity or advocacy.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

>>but it sounds like you're talking down cervelo. or do you mean that you just don't like certain companies talked down?
how is that talking down? i merely re-stated your comment: "since cervelo is bigger than specialized in tri, and specialized is bigger than cervelo in road." cycling is part of the 'sporting universe' outside of tri, right? did i say that one company's product is superior to the other? because that would be talking down. a p2sl was actually my first tri bike, and i won a number number of tts on p3c last season. it was (is) a phenominal bike, and would still be at the top of my list if i were shopping.

>>i don't know what you mean by "popularity contest"
come on slowman, the cervelo love is nearly omnipresent on st. that's fine since this is a tri forum and cervelo has done a better job with this community.

>> i don't think c'dale was "giving back," i think it was a shrewd move to get bikes under a critical mass of fast riding local decision makers.
fair enough. although what about college team sponsorship? non-profit support?

Is it not that far fetched to believe that someone in a room somewhere calculated a return on investment for every sponsorship decision made by any company. It is about making money because it is about growing business. This does not exclude the occasional donation from large companies as good brand image can be factored in to the companies ROI just like money can be.

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Veritas Endurance Coaching

Hey guys,

I'll be the first to say how excited Specialized is for Cancellara to be back racing in good form. He had a rough start to the beginning of the season dealing with sickness at the ToC so we're really glad that he's psyched and back to his normal riding. Good luck to him, the Saxo Bank team, the Cervelo Test Team, and everyone else in the peleton. I really hope people remember that our companies are all full of people who love cycling; watching, participating, and living the sport every day. Of course I'm routing for the team that we developed bikes for so yea, go Saxo. They love the the new bikes and it fuels our engineering team to see them winning aboard products developed over many long hours.

I haven't posted on here for a while because I (and our entire engineering team) has been stacked designing and building the new bikes. When we have some good stuff to share (WT data, track results, etc.) I'll definitely post and let everyone get a bite at what's going on. [I will note that the wind tunnel and stiffness data for the new bike is quite incredible...really incredible.]

I just want to note that no matter what company or affiliation a person has on this forum, I firmly believe we're all in this together. We're trying to build better, more scientifically driven bikes that help riders ride faster. Most of you who know me from this forum before know that I was at the MIT Wind Tunnel, was fortunate to intern with Cervelo, worked at a wind tunnel in Colorado tailored for Garmin/Slipstream, and have found a great home to grow as an engineer with Specialized. In every one of these situations, the engineering/development teams worked hard to make faster product.

Mark Cote
MITaerobike
Specialized Road Engineer/Aerodynamicist

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Mark Cote
MITAerobike
Specialized Bicycle Components

So, do you have any comments in regards to the new UCI interpretations. Specifically as they relate to the very large head tube template of the specialized prototype bikes?

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Erik
Strava

We are communicating and cooperating with the UCI and their new rule implementations. The aerobars have been modified to 3:1 and the stem has not been called out as it falls within the UCI rules as does the Bayonet, Look hinge, etc. Note that the brake mounts to the stem and the stem is mounted to the fork at the bottom of the crown. This forms a stiffness structure that significantly improved both braking performance and system torsional stiffness.

From personal experience (spent about 300 miles on the bike), the front end stiffness is very much worth the complexity of the design. This bike rails corners and descents better than any other TT bike I've ever ridden.

Mark
MITaerobike

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Mark Cote
MITAerobike
Specialized Bicycle Components

check that new "additive" wording on the 80mm depth rule. Seems it was targeted directly at Bayonet forks, hinged frames, integrated water bottles, and techdev-like stems.

You guys still using 1" steerers?

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era