Sorry Tom,

Uh, I thought that we were talking about two different frames. I agree, all things being equal, - he'll rock.

Here's a phrase:

Holy Headtube, Batman.

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

No, I'm sorry, as I originally implied, but didn't repeat in the last post, I meant all other things being equal besides the frame.

But, that's OK...now I understand what part of it you can't comprehend. Got it ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

You could add the Scott Plasma 3 in there too.

Seriously, we are either seeing a confluence of different design philosophies, or all these companies are fishing ideas from the same DNA pool.

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ADW

It's silly.

You're an aero guy who has done a lot of great work. So, - I'll respect that and shut up. All of these TT bike frames are excellent in my book and are so close to each other where it counts that I find it very hard to believe that Pinarello's $20,000 bike is "faster" or "slower" than Specialized, Cervelo, or whatever...
But I haven't tested any like you have.

looks like a P2C Giant combo. I guess imitation is a true form of flattery.

I am happy to see the current Specialized piece of crap tt bike may be replaced sooner than later.

It's funny you use the Pinarello as an example to compare to the other 2 brands...especially since the comparative cost/benefit ratio is actually negative! ;-)

But...it sure is "purdy"...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

If it would be possible for him to race against a clone of him (same age, same training, same position, same everything else but the bike) I would bet he could not beat him unless he was riding a more aerodynamic bike.

Now if Cancellara shows up significantly stronger in a particular race, I can imagine that he could bet him in a De Rosa or Pinarello.

A slight difference between bikes is a slight difference but sometimes enough to win or loose a TT.

Sergio

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Note: English is not my first language. Please read this translated post considering that.

"all other things being equal" is a bit of a sticky one. as you alluded to over on a different forum, many of the euro tt courses are "technical". so part of being equal is how well the bike handles. for example, my p3c rode so straight that you barely had to hang on. otoh, my new transition handles way better around corners. if the frames are aero equals, my bet is that i'll be faster on a turny tt on the transition by being able to stay in the drops more or take corners at higher speeds. so while aero is obviously a huge factor, a bike's handling ability also certainly comes into play (at least for those technical courses).

You can play chicken or egg...or you can realize the genius of leaving everything behind to create something that takes the best characteristics of everything! Thing positive, man!

One other interesting comparison with Cervelo: C made that p4 design and I still have not heard of any pros using it. Gotta love the way Specialized has this out immediately.

i guess this means that specialized's very weak argument supporting the sloped top tube (it "channeling" the air or something) on the SBI transition was not 90% fairy tale, it was 100% fairly tale ....

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Where would you want to swim ?

I think everyone owning a transition will be a bit upset. Will be interesting to see if Macka gets one..

The bikes rear end and tt remind me of the Time.

Glad you brought up The Time. I remember back in the day when they came out with "The Bird". Man...that was a good song to dance to.

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ADW

Are you implying that Christiane Soeder doesn't get paid to race bikes?

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Here's a better image:

 
Anyone want to make an "over/under" bet on how long it is until "bayonet" style fork designs are deemed illegal by the the UCI?

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sure: as long as Jean Wauthier is the technical adviser, and as long as Look is making a 'bayonet' style fork, it won't be deemed illegal.

that said, that headtube 'stiffener' seems to really violate the spirit of the rule (as does the Giant), and I'm having a hard time seeing how that's legal.

Nothing to do with this picture, but were you one of the guys on top of the hill in Lubbock?

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Brawndo's got what plants crave. Brawndo's got electrolytes. And that's what plants crave. They crave electrolytes. Which is what Brawndo has. And that's why plants crave Brawndo. Not water, like from the toilet.

Hehe...good point ;-)

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Oh, not me personally. I was stuck in California being a good student. (BOOO!)

Kristin Armstrong is racing one as well. According to the mini-documentary put out by Cervelo, her numbers are faster than any of the pro guy's.

I think that "technically", the Bayonet-style is legal because it is two structures - the fork and the headtube junction. By keeping each part under 3:1, it is supposed to skirt around the rule.

Even you people who don't believe in physics have to admit that showing up on a wicked-fast machine on raceday is a confidence booster, and a confident racer will be able to push harder than a shaky one.

Don't want to get off-topic but i wonder why is it that there are no pro roadies riding P4s? (Soeder was on it briefly and i dont think Armstrong races that bike) I wonder if perhaps UCI has something to do with it? hmm.... maybe something that has to do with that rear brake cover? oh... i wonder.

Back on topic though: lets hope that this Giant/Whatever hybrid pleases the bosses at UCI and this bikes gets to see some UCI races.

-c

Bringing up Macca to poo-foo the now older Transition geometry doesn't really work. Macca destroyed the competition on that bike!

I think the main reason that Specialized went to the non-sloped tube is for fit purposes. Not my words only, but also those of the great Tom Demerly (via phone conversation...he's more of an expert than me anyway.) The different geometry should simplify the bike and make it more universal.

The whole point of compact geometry was to allow mfgs to produce fewer frame sizes and save some $$ in tooling and inventory costs. Now that Specialized has seen that there is a real market for these bikes, I'm betting they realized that they'd need to ante up to a full range of frame sizes like Cervelo has.

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