I've had a crossing with one of those types or at least it sure seemed that way. I went to a urologist in my area a number of years ago out of concern of my prostrate after using heavily over 10 years of competitive bodybuilding. The doctor did a blood test and called me back in to discuss my low "T" levels. I was pretty sure my natural levels were impacted and I was approaching my late 40's at that time. I let him talk me into using Androgel, but I felt conflicted by using it. I don't compete in anything so that wasn't the problem, but I had a lot of other issues out of my former use. It was like treating an alcoholic with alcohol. Plus the Androgel seemed very ineffective for the cost out of my pocket since my insurance wasn't covering it. Then I let him talk me into using injectable oil base T and finally the conflicted feeling I was having I did not finish the remainder. At the next annual check he asked me about it and I told him my concerns about my prostrate and other things. At that point he starts going into marketing hype but because I was a former black market dealer, user and long history with this topic most of what he said wasn't true. I did not confront him on the deceptions and just went on my way. A few weeks later I started getting pharmaceutical pamphlets in the mail from his office about other forms of delivery, such as, pelletized slow release T implanted under the skin.

This falls under your "some doctors" category. I am sure many would not do this or at least I hope they would not.

One of the reasons, as there are a number of other reasons, I stopped the T therapy is that I get to speak one on one with athletes on occasion in my area on occasion about using for performance. It is super hypocritical for me to be using a "therapy" dose and talk to them about the cons of using. When I started using and selling through the 80's and 90's it was not that many guys and gals actually using in comparison to today's times IMO. I have more typical husband/father types that approach me with questions than ever before. Unfortunately I find that about 95% of the guys that approach me at first ask me how they can ask their doctor to increase dosage or where they can find a black market source in order to increase dosage. I would also guess that better than 50% of the guys aged 40 and up that I see in my gym are on a doctor's prescription and when they approach me and I begin to ask them questions I find that most have the same urologist that I was using. I would still visit this doctor because he is known as one of the best in my area for prostrate and colon cancer screens.


On a different note, I would give this advice to anyone competing clean. This is coming from a former heavy user.
Never look outward to competition (as in who is going to show up and are they clean), but instead look inward to do your best and look upward to where you would like to go. Where you place following a good effort in training clean is to be appreciated and believe me you will sleep a whole lot better with a clean conscience. I've met many guys and gals that started innocent, but in time they let their paranoia of who might be using ease them into a false justification of why they need to be using as well.

Most I have met that started or considered PEDs started because of paranoia. "I would train clean if they would train clean, but I can't even place because I believe they are on something and without using so I started using."

So the cycling "press" are just going to let this go. Cyclocross pedals! Look at Phinney's cute haircut! He got third in a 4th tier race!
You have a doper build a team around clean cycling (by hiring a bunch of dopers), states several times that if there is a positive it's game over. Turns out his strength of character is the same last time he made the easy decision when Lance Made Him Do It. The really messed up thing is that this was THE chance. He could have called it a day, shopped his MBA around and gone out a hero and changed the sport forever. Instead it's more of the same. It is disappointing, but not surprising.
At least the other endurance sports are clean.

And why would Cannondale or Castelli sue Slipstream for breach of contract? Have you seen their contracts that indicate that a rider for the team testing positive results in a breach of that contract?

So apparently there is no love lost still between these two. Pretty sure LA is bigger asshat here, even if JV isn't keeping his word.

1. 
   Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters 7h7 hours ago
   Selfishly, Id like to disappear, but that hurts quite a few good people. Therefore,Slipstream's owners(me too) have decided to push forward.
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2. 
   Lance Armstrong ‏@lancearmstrong 2h2 hours ago
   @Vaughters those good people would be better off without you.
   

All of those free trips to Europe and fun toys to "review" (spoiler alert: "vertically compliant, but could use better wheels")..... We all have our price I suppose.
But you know what? I'd say Dan and Herbert have a pair.
I'd love to see Dan call up Cannondale or Castelli and ask when they are planning on suing slipstream for breach of contract (and post the interview for all to read). Or how they can justify continuing to support a bunch of liars or hypocrites.
Look, I get that there is no Santa, but we should at least require the guy pretending to be Santa not to be a f_ing lying hypocrite who won't stand by on one thing he's built his team around.

So what's Garmin's mantra now? It used to be "we may suck, but at least we're clean". It is just now "ok, we still suck, and well um..."

Meh. Just telling it like it is.

And right on cue, VN comes out with this interesting bit of "ethical relativism"...http://velonews.competitor.com/...-consequences_380654

<rolleyes>

So let me get this right. T.D. tests positive and not just because of Vaughters previous comments but for He himself, he should fold the team and leave? Correct? And if T.D. did not test positive, you are good with him in cycling?
I am not defending J.V., just want o get this straight. Do you feel just as strongly that BMC should fold up because of Ochowicz

I wouldn't mind the relativism if Vaughters had set himself up as a relativist ("I'm going to do the best I can given the culture of drugs, etc")

He didn't. He set himself up as an absolutist. And switched to being a relativist when it became convenient. Much like Lance switched to telling the truth when it became convenient.

Also the last line is a false choice. Vaughters doesn't have to wash his hands of the sport entirely. He just has to resign from Garmin-Cannondale. Plenty of other jobs in the sport unless the sport enforces "omerta" on his ass for talking too much, which Lance's tweet seems to suggest to me.

Exactly

I understand that Vaughters made a comment that many now would like to see him keep by leaving. With that said, the level of sarcasm and vitriol against Vaughters seems to be a bit over the top. He is getting more abuse on here than T.D. Wonder how many here who have made a foolish comment at work, would then quit there job when proven foolish.
Maybe I misunderstood your post, but because of comment that J.V. said he should now leave and anything else he says now proves he compromises, is a liar or whatever. I do think there is some truth in the article you linked in where from when Slipstream started J.V's personality aside, He and his team has done good for the sport. I do not think that should all be thrown away for a foolish statement that was not thought through.
As Och, well yes he hasn't made the mistake of a statement but I think he has a history of actions in cycling that are way way worse. If the anger is toward J.V. to be gone for his statement, there should be a whole lot more against others, hell, he is getting more hate here than Astana and Vino.

..it wasn't just some sort of throwaway comment. His team was BUILT on that premise. That's how he sold it to sponsors and fans...and even to his younger riders. It was stated multiple times over the years.

Here's the opportunity he's missing: If he were to actually LIVE UP TO his stated consequences for what occurred, he would actually gain additional "gravitas" as someone who keeps his word and does things because they are right. Although it would be throwing a figurative bomb into cycling...in the long term...when he does come back into cycling (and don't think he wouldn't end up back in cycling in some form) he re-enters as the guy with the moral high ground and should be able to effect even greater change.

As it sits, we're just left with yet another team with leadership that is demonstrably dishonest.

Here's what I think you're missing...it wasn't just some sort of throwaway comment. His team was BUILT on that premise. That's how he sold it to sponsors and fans...and even to his younger riders. It was stated multiple times over the years.

Here's the opportunity he's missing: If he were to actually LIVE UP TO his stated consequences for what occurred, he would actually gain additional "gravitas" as someone who keeps his word and does things because they are right. Although it would be throwing a figurative bomb into cycling...in the long term...when he does come back into cycling (and don't think he wouldn't end up back in cycling in some form) he re-enters as the guy with the moral high ground and should be able to effect even greater change.

As it sits, we're just left with yet another team with leadership that is demonstrably dishonest. No different than the others. Staying actually makes things worse overall. Great.