Thanks for proving my point....Floyd "set thing in motion" because he had nothing left to lose and engaged in a "scorched earth" strategy. The idea that he did it for any other reason is laughable.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

I know, RIGHT? Upside, Tour of Utah is more interesting now, with the focus on the younger riders. At least when Horner isn't talking.

This isn't about Floyd. Not one person is saying Floyd did it out of personal integrity or for the good of the sport. What I am saying is JV should have been the one to set things in motion for the good of the sport.

Wait, what? You were the one who brought Flandis into the conversation and now "it isn't about Floyd"? HUH?

You asked "why" it was Flandis who set it in motion and I gave you the reason.

There are many ways to effect affect change in a system......scorching the earth and trying to tear it down is one. Trying to change it from within is another.

Right or wrong, for better or worse, JV chose one path, Flandis another.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

"Armstrong was once drunk with power. Now he's just drunk." - BSNYC

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

The truth is more complicated than your simplistic world. Floyd did not wake up one day and think, "Fuck the world, Fuck everybody." He did not take down LA out of jealousy or spite, as you would have people believe. Lance and the McQuaid went out of their way to put Landis in a position where he was willing to spill the beans.

No, its not about Floyd or his motivation. Its ironic that a guy sends one email and does more than a guy "trying to change it from within" over the course of how many years? JV could have send the same email. Hi didn't, he relied on fooling people like you to think he was going to change it by the sheer power of his intellect!

And trying to paint Floyd's actions as "scorched earth" is pretty weak when trying to elevate JV's actions in contrast. "Scorched earth" was telling the truth.

Where did I write or imply anything that contradicts that? hell, that was exactly what I said.....Flandis was left with nothing but a 'scorched earth" strategy because he had nothing left to lose.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Reading comprehension is not your strong point, is it?

You are completely misrepresenting my comments....I am not elevating "anything: about JV. As I said much earlier....I don't really care for the guy.

Again, you brought Flandis into the conversation and asked "why him". I simply gave you the answer...although clearly it isn't one you really wanted.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

First sign of the defeated.....attack the person rather than the logic.

Carry on.....

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Truth from BSNYC:

".....at this point I don't know why people are still talking about who should or shouldn't be in cycling. Instead, it makes more sense to be talking about who should be following cycling--and the answer to that is "nobody."

5280, Chipotle, Garmin, Garmin/Sharp, Garmin Cannondale was our (Boulder's) team. When they had the devo team, the kids wore the same Argyle as the pros. We took the kids to the team presentations, hung up posters in our house, pointed to them as a version of pro cycling that could be believed in. Turns out that was all built on a big lie. I'm done.

Can you explain this? Because one rider tests positive, you believe the entire team is dirty?

Sorry, I can't make that leap......it is impossible for any team to monitor their riders 100% of time. This could be nothing more than TD realizing his spot on the team was tenuous at best and with his 'signature" events coming up, he felt he needed to resort to old habits.

It certainly remains to be seen whether this is any indication of systemic doping.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Hey Barrie, all the best in your travels. Certainly over those 5 events you will personally witness several doped out performances. I agree we should be hard on dopers....but let's keep in mind that we really don't know what EPOing was going on in triathlon before the EPO test came out in 2000. Dmitri Gaag won ITU World's in 1999 and beat Simon Lessing...later busted....Brigitte McMahon beat Michellie Jones for the Sydney Gold. That gold medal was the FIRST GOLD MEDAL handed out in the history of our sport. How can we sit here and say our sport has largely been drug free when the biggest prize that Les MacDonald and all the ITU machinery worked towards creating was then stolen by an EPO doper. The mid 90's times at Roth and Kona during the exact same period as Bjarne Riis' 60% TdF reign are still competitive in today's world with very inferior aerodynamics and tire technology.

I think you might just be too close to all these professionals to be objective. As a fan you and I want them to be clean. Heck, I want Usein Bolt to be clean. I want Ledecky to be clean. I wanted Ben Johnson to be clean. You are going to see a lot of awesome performances at the races you will be at in the next while and it is certain you will see many doped ones too that will fly under the radar both age group and pro. Where there is reward there is gonna be corner cutting.

I don't think it is helpful saying that triathlon has not had a drug culture compared to other sports. What this does is let druggies feel "safe" over here in triathlon. Perhaps the way of saying it is, "we have been equally affected by doping as all endurance sports, we have just been less affective in policing it and catching the villains". This would be a more fair introspective view of ourselves, rather than patting ourselves on the back saying "Our sport has been better". I don't think we can say that. The biggest prizes in our sport have been stolen by dopers....ITU World's, Olympic Gold and Kona. Based on this alone one could argue we are more doped out than NFL or MLB (which we know is likely not the case).

Ok one more time, it's not about this case of doping. Is about a them not living up to an on-the-record promise of having a 100% (not 98 or 99%) clean team or no team at all. They had the balls (and enjoyed the benefits) to put it in those terms and now that the bet is being called in, it's time to break out the ethics 101 shit from sophomore year . That was what was sold, that is not what was delivered.
Systematic doping - I'd bet two paychecks that's not happening, too risky.
Systematic lying - that did happen. Regardless of the "spirit" or "greater good of the sport" or whatever else folks come up with - we were sold on a 100% clean team and JV was the guy trusted to uphold that standard.

True...technically JV has until the B sample comes back as positive to decide whether or not to live up to his promise.

Then again, historically the odds of that coming back as negative are slim to none...and slim just left town :-/

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Quote " Systematic lying - that did happen. Regardless of the "spirit" or "greater good of the sport" or whatever else folks come up with - we were sold on a 100% clean team and JV was the guy trusted to uphold that standard."

So until T.D. tested positive there was no lying. For ten years there was no positives. So you were completely ok with J.V. until after the positive he did not resign. So for ten years no lying and now its systematic. I tried a search and maybe I screwed it up but did not see any criticism of J.V. by you till T.D. failed a test. So if he walked away he is a great guy but since he did not he and all related to him are a piece of shit, he is on a level of Lance and others. (i.e. if any sponsors ect are asking him to stay)
Hypothetical for you. "IF" (?) sponsors who dumped millions into the team have asked him to stay, does he have a responsibility to them?

Are you just bored or something? This is the last bit of bandwidth I'll devote to this. I'm not going to touch your the "yelling at my wife" analogy as it's really hard not to get into shallow waters with that one.
Of course I had no problem with JV until TD got popped. Up until that point he had not gone back on his word. The bluff had not yet been called. He described his team from early on: http://www.nytimes.com/...were-clean.html?_r=0

"Shortly after retiring, Vaughters launched a developmental cycling squad dedicated to ethical competition. That team has since evolved into Cannondale-Garmin. Early on, the team implemented a stringent doping policy that remains today. If a rider is caught doping, the whole team will be fired."

Those are pretty sharply defined terms to try to wiggle out of.

Screw Horner. When he wears his hat backwards you'd swear he's Danielson. Remarkably similar in many ways.
I know a clean kid that will spank him in the mountains.

I was just making clear on the question I asked you. Thanks for the response, but you do not seem to read. I asked a hypothetical which you chose not to answer. Ok.
Its seems obvious that when he made that statement that anyone following cycling would agree that at some point, at some time, someone would test positive. You made it clear your were ok with him till that point. Knowing that it would happen sometime certainly means the only good that J V could ever do is quit when the positive eventually came. That anything else in the previous ten years, or if it continued clean for another ten years would mean absolutely nothing in your eyes. That if he does not quit and fire the team, that they are......"Systematic" liars.....(not just this lie) the whole team is not trustworthy and He has done damage to cycling in comparison to Lance.
Thanks for making that clear.

Quote "Those are pretty sharply defined terms to try to wiggle out of."
You are absolutely correct. Never denied it. Never said he should or should not quit.

Didn't a Marion Jones B sample come back negative? It's happened.

Re: M Jones
"The statistics Olivier Rabin, WADA’s science director, made regarding three of the total four (!) “B”-sample tests failing to verify the finding of the adverse “A”-tests in 3.909 positive samples taken in 2005: two purportedly involved urine samples that had naturally degraded, making it difficult to determine if EPO had been present; and the third analysis which failed to confirm the initial “A”-sample result could have been related to whether or not the samples were frozen quickly enough to work toward enabling substances to not break down."

This brings up the question of what the false positive rate is for these tests. I have my doubts that it is 0.1%. In fact they are trying to make the case that the false positive rate is 0% by finding excuses for every one of the four. I have to say that this does not smell right.

I'd really love to know the prevalence of using carbon isotope testing vs. E:T ratio testing for exogenous testosterone use. There's a lot of bald-ass motherfuckers at 30 and 25 year-olds with horrific acne in the pro road peloton. Does WADA not swing the expensive carbon isotope test without heavy-duty probable cause? Otherwise the E:T test is really easy to duck.