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You are indeed quite the stealthy dude ..... no one would have ever expected that if you hadn't told us all ..... probably compromised you 007 status. You still won't know the secret WTC handshake and wink code though ;-)

Dave

I'm not buying ANY of this until I see the detailed environmental/cultural impact assessment report. Clearly OUR federal government would not confirm funding until this most critical component has been addressed.

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http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

http://www.kelownadailycourier.ca/...rnon-home-82812.html

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http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

That was brilliant and love the Power Bits.

All involved would best think this all through clearly, before making any snap decisions.

Here's a blog I wrote last week, before I knew anything about the news out of Penticton last week - http://stevefleck.blogspot.ca/...eeks-three-very.html

In real estate it's "Location, location location" in large endurance sports event management it's "Venue, venue, venue"!

Note this is not for or against anyone or any party in this. It's just that the venue is critical to long term success with these events.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Interesting. Any word on dates? If WTC sticks to its late August/early September date, it potentially sets up a conflict between Penticton and another, very close city. How do these councillors feel about their cities competing directly with each other? Someone mentioned that it would be bad business to hold them so close, but wouldn't it also be bad politics?

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Graham Barron Design: Custom west coast house design http://www.grahambarron.com/

Woah. Off topic, but I love your Cliff House. Especially as a structural engineer. Beautiful.

Thank you!

The structural engineer who worked on it btw was Dan Wicke from Wicke Herfst Maver.

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Graham Barron Design: Custom west coast house design http://www.grahambarron.com/

Same here! I almost didn't notice. I have a thing for this:

http://www.housesinteriors.com/...-Angelas-570x391.jpg

http://www.infoteli.com/...-Hertz-Architect.jpg
(Venice Beach, saw it in person, WOW!)

And this beauty in NZ:
http://www.homebasedesign.com/...-Pete-Bossley-01.jpg

I heard Kelowna doesn't want the hastle, and they don't have a bike route without creating a major hastle. I've also heard Kamloops, Calgary and Whistler.

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BC Don
Pain is temporary, not giving it your all lasts all Winter.

. If *I* were running WTC I would definitely raise the Kona slots to 100 and put the race within the time frame of challenge penticton. Yes not good for us triathletes, but a tried and true business strategy of trying to kill off your competition before they even get a chance to start. I'm thinking with IMNYC likely being gone for next year that frees up some spots. Dunno, just guessing aloud.

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Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!

Look at this:

http://www.vernonmorningstar.com/news/167884135.html

Kelowna doesn't want the hassle? Maybe it will go to Victoria then? One ferry ride for me and I'm at the front of the hotel. I wouldn't even need a car. :)

Not sure if Vernon would be ideal.
Definitely would end up being a pissing match having two long distance tri's within 100km of each other & most likely in the same month.
I certainly think Victoria & Whistler would be better choices.
From what I'm hearing the Penticton Challenge will be a tough act to follow, few of the ideas floating around will make this event spectacular indeed.
Not sure WTC is into spending as much on the experience as the new group seems to, coupled with more than double the prize money I think the race will be well attended by pro's needing to make a living.

If WTC is effective in doing all the things you mentioned and killed Challenge before it started, would Penticton council ever consider dealing with WTC again? Would Penticton council say to hell with it and mothball the course indefinitely, that would be a shame, or would they still entertain WTC after such a hardball tactic?

From what I heard of the locals in Penticton, many are tired of the WTC, and are looking forward to a new start with Challenge.

Every time I drive through Kelowna and encounter Kelowna drivers, I'm reminded of Edmonton where I live, and everybody knows what a bunch of assholes we are.

I agree that Victoria and Whistler would be the best choices and Kelowna and Vernon would be too similar to Penticton and would set up the pissing match.

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"No more hurting people - Peace"

+1. They are very close to where I live which is also a nice bonus.

I hope IMC stays in the Okanagan somewhere. I worry aboutthe weather in Whistler especially in late summer.

From what I heard of the locals in Penticton, many are tired of the WTC, and are looking forward to a new start with Challenge.

Help me understand how any local in Penticton could be tired of the WTC? The WTC has never been there. Maybe you're confusing Graham/NA Sports with the WTC but if that's the case then I think you're dead wrong. I was just there and spoke to a lot of locals. Not one single person I spoke to was happy AT ALL about the upcoming change. I'm not defending the WTC since I'm no fan but I'm more interested in hearing or knowing the truth than something I might just want to hear.

A little history....
The original local ownership of the race was tedious at best with a well-meaning Lyn Van Dove at the helm. Then WTC gave a 5yr license to the Penticton Ironman Society early 90's
They pretty much ran things into the ground. WTC then wanted to deal with an owner not a committee and in a roundabout way Graham Fraser wound up owning the race.
Graham had a very good vision & once he realized the potential of local assets he took his ideas and started the ball rolling toward what we have today.
So Penticton went from a bystander to a major contributor to this event as it grew to needing more than just the blessing of the local powers that be.
As the city's financial commitment grew so did the demand of IMC of what it expected from the city. Though I must say Graham Fraser invested in the community, substantially I might add.
I do think WTC pressured Mr. Fraser to demand more out of the local governments. I speculate some of the joy was sucked out of Graham and when the WTC would not renew his license he gladly relinquished, still keeping IMC in his fold. With WTC now taking his last IM the city of Penticton chose to take a step back to the time when this race was a local run event, being able to call the shots rather than being dictated what was/is expected of them.
The way I see it, it is the City of Penticton that now will grant an organiser the right to hold the event here with the elected counsel determining what is best for taxpayers of the region. As of now that is the Challenge Family.
We will go back to the time when local business can offer their services and goods without the restrictions that the WTC imposes because of sponsorship commitments.
When I still had my tri shop I had a booth in the expo, I brought my inventory and made an effort to offer many things folks were looking for. I had been doing this for years then one year we were not able to have a booth because my products conflicted with official sponsors. The expo was populated by out of town, out of province and out of country suppliers. They were not required to have local business licenses heck most didn't even charge taxes, giving them an unfair advantage over locals . Anyone that has ever done IMC will know the effort the Bike Barn puts in every single year. They too were shut out of the retail side for some time, weren't even allowed to be out on race day. Thank god the IMC saw their way past that. Even Steve King was forced out of the announcer’s booth at one time!!
IMC is a big deal in our small community and I doubt the WTC will be able or even want to change their business model to accommodate Penticton. They didn't in Roth.
WTC is about big $$ now, the amazing part is how loyal triathletes are to the brand.
No business stays on top forever and there is only one direction you can go if you are at the top.
Competition is good IMO, athletes are the ones that will benefit.
WTC holding a race in the neighbouring town at the same time will not benefit anyone.

I don't pretend to be in the know in Penticton, but I was speaking to a lot of people while volunteering and hanging out, and honestly encountered more people who were optimistic about Challenge, rather than pessimistic. Sure, there was some sadness, but I was encountering a mild resentment, and you're right, I'm not sure if they knew who the players were or how this debacle came to be, or the politics. Hell I don't know either, but have stitched my own version from what I read here, and what I was encountering during my week in Ptown.

I also have friends who live there and are active in the community, and they seem to know whats going on, and they are all for the change. I'm not a WTC basher, and only want to see a race of any brand happen next year.

Thanks, that's the kind of summary I was looking for, and confirms what I was hearing.

I wonder what will happen with the "Ironman City" sign on the Subaru dealership? Are there any other businesses in town a similar situation?

You know, as long as I've been on this planet people have been bashing #1 (especially if they have close to a monopoly). The truth is that WTC events are run really really well but they've been skimping in areas that are pissing people off and playing a little hardball too. The WTC only needs to make some minor tweaks and they could shift people's opinion really quick. For example, imagine the impact of people's perception of the WTC if they changed their refund policy or allowed some type of transfer policy? They gave out some really nice backpacks at IMCDA and IMTX (maybe other events?) this year instead of those lame bags we got at IMC.

Unfortunately I have no interest in doing a Challenge race but I'm certainly dying for someone to step up and change the sport for the better. Just doing an IM isn't challenging or interesting to me but doing it fast and being rewarded for that performance is...

The WTC is known for aggressively defending its turf - it wants to make the race as close as possible to the current venue of Ironman Canada - they want it to be a shot across the bow to Challenge. Tit for tat competition. Look what they did in Australia with the Cairns race the Challenge Family tried to set up. They stated to the Kelowna city councillor that I know that they want to do just that - Ironman will get all the publicity, spectators, and volunteers, and the Challenge race in Penticton will be irrelevant. They also want a course that carries the scenic beauty of the Penticton race. Been to Whistler - I don't see how they could swing Green Lake or Alta Lake - would not make for a spectator friendly transition. Vernon is very plausible - Kin Beach or Kal Beach on Kalamalka. Downtown is very spectator friendly.

Penticton is a special city for me. I did my last Ironman there in 09, and after the race, after the medical tent, and after running with an engagement ring in my singlet, I took a knee and asked my wife to marry me. For that reason alone, we will go back. I have even joked about naming a kid, Penticton, but that idea was shot down.

I spent a few days in Penticton before my fiance/wife arrived and I had the chance to meet some locals. I was amazed at how much knowledge people had of the race, and how many could say that they did it in 97 or "before we had kids". People of Penticton knew what the race, and the distance meant. During the week, I had a slice of pizza at a place that was located on the bike route coming back into town. When I was coming back in, I saw the owner outside, and hollered at him. I think I muttered something about the weather being like Texas, and that must have triggered his memory to holler back "Go, Patrick!, you are right on time!" When I ate there a few days earlier, we talked about the race and what kind of time I thought I would have. He joked, that he would write it down and look for me. Well, I guess he wasn't joking.

Stories like that will drive me and others to go back to Penticton. However, when the WTC email came out about another venue, I put my name on the list. Why? I still have to get to Kona, and that didn't happen in 09 and it won't happen in Penticton now. Besides that, IMC Penticton happens at a bad time of the year for many folks. My wife is a teacher, and school starts around that same time every year. She's either starting the Monday after or finishing her first week and can't take vacation. If WTC pushes the date to September, it will be easier for both of us to travel together.

If we make it back up to Canada for the new IMC, we will definitely go to Penticton and spend a day or two there. If we go back to Penticton for Challenge Penticton, we just won't have to drive anywhere after the race. The wine tour bus picks up at the hotel.

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56-11...the only way to fly

I could see Merritt making a case for it. Good lake nearby, unused flat #1 highway now that everyone takes the Coch highway, and they have a lot of hotels because of that huge music festival that is no longer happening. Less than 3 hr drive from Kelowna or Vancouver.