Gets me thinking , he used the term "historical"....since when did the WTC care about history, they systematically stripped the IMC of its staus in the IM world, they put another IM (louisville) on the same damn day, they reduced the AG Kona slots to 50, the same as other run of the mill IM, they reduced the Kona Pro ranking points to the lowest level, and mandated that the Pro Prize money was at the lowest level, it was not an "historical event" it was a second tier race, uncared for by the WTC.....The WTC didn't care then, they don't care now about IMC, Penticton, or anything else other than a cash cow just ran off to another farmers field, and they claim "historical date of IMC".....Mr Messick, you are an ass, you addressed the Penticton city council, you refused to confirm IMC would remain in Penticton long term, you called it a "business decision".....stop with the Historical crap.....It was a "business decision"......You (the WTC) screwed up a perfectly good thing, end of story.

I hope the Challenge race is a success, I hope that IMC can continue in some form elsewhere, but the WTC is full of crap on this.

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>X
If you run long enough....something is bound to happen

Bravo. Well said.

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

Well said!!!!

X1000!

I am now starting to move to the camp of "take my $$ elsewhere" and never race a WTC again. The only one I must do, given my welsh blood and summer camp home in Tenby, is IM Wales. Otherwise, I have to say WTC keeps digging a hole for me and it is really, really deep. And to think only a few months ago I was publicly thanking Ironman CEO Messick as I felt he was really adding value with things like the lottery, adding Tahoe and Mexico etc. What he did at IMMT was great. But this debacle on the heels of IMNYC is just very, very bad business.

They need to fire their PR/Communications lead and start over.

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@rhyspencer

I fully support Kamloops for IM Canada. I admit I'm a bit biased, having been born and raised there, now living in the Greater Vancouver area. The weather in Kamloops is consistent in the summer, 3000+ hotel rooms (don't forget B&B's, house rentals, university housing with 600 rooms, etc), lakes to choose from (forget the river folks! I know you must be joking), tons of volunteers (it is the tournament capital; they've hosted the BC Games), biking and running options, major hospital, and all the amenities of a large city. It would be great for Kamloops -- when I trained for IMC (Penticton), I visited the Penticton area 6 times over the summer, plus stayed for 10 days for the race. Let's go Kamloops!!

Great post!

I last raced IMC in 2010, and am registered for Challenge Penticton, as, shocking but true, I need to know where and when I'm racing.

I've heard from many that the IMC race was better in the past, and the last few years haven't been up to par. I don't have the history with the race to speak to it, but would love to hear others experiences.

In my opinion, WTC should focus on what they're going to do in the future, and less on what they have done in the past. I am looking for an an athlete focused, challenging race, where my family can be involved and feel like they're part of the race. Great volunteers, great logistics, and great marshals are what makes for a great race. Develop those, and I'll be happy enter the race.

I hope WTC is listening, as Challenge and Rev appear to be - a great race takes more than a name. It takes a great planning, great volunteers, and a focus on the details. If I were them, I wouldn't have an IMC just to have an IMC. It has to be a premier race, with all of the thought and focus that goes into a premier race. If not, they'll likely see more competition, not less. I hope that the competitors are not the ones who suffer, though.

The "historical date" is just as much Penticton's as it is Ironman Canada's (WTC). Even if Penticton were to have the Challenge race on a different date, how is Penticton supposed to know when the new host city will have its race? The last weekend in August might not work for Vernon or Kamloops or Kelowna. This WTC Penticton fued is sounding more and more like a bitter custody battle. "Its a shame Doug is planning on taking the kids to Disneyland that weekend, I've always taken them to see their aunt and uncle on that date."

All this is silly on WTC's part and borders on being unprofessional. They blew the community relationship. Now time to move on and focus on adding customer value and not fixating on what Challenge does. If I went to a customer and spent the entire time bashing the competiton rather than focusing on how I am going to add value to the customer, the customer will quickly kick me out the door and spend money elsewhere. This is not rocket science. WTC knows how to provide good value to the customer (or they'd never have gotten where they are). They just need to focus on doing that and forget about what Challenge it doing.

Bottom line in any industry, you're better off focusing on making the market larger with many competitors playing all making good money....then focus on getting the big market share by making the customer happy. Historically WTC has done that, and I thought with IMNYC Andrew Messick made the right call in focusing on the customer experience even if it meant not having the race again. Now WTC has another opportunity to figure out how they will make customers happy.

In business sometimes we blow relationships and need to figure out how to move on. Trying to beat up on Challenge is not a positive way of moving on. Frankly if I was WTC, I think they would gain more by saying something along these lines, "Yes, we blew it in Penticton. We had something good and did not really do what we needed to do to keep the community on our side. Now we're going to move on and try to service our customers and wish our peers at Challenge the best. In the mean time, we'll put on a class event that athletes can be proud of to service those who want to do Ironman in another venue. Our initial feedback suggests that many of you want us to deliver that to you and we will strive to do that. "

Well said . WTC has always taken Penticton for granted they reduce slots and prize money thinking we will just roll over and say thank you daddy. Now challenge comes in and they are obviously scared why would they try to go head to head in the same valley ,it reeks of desperation

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"Be your best cheerleader , not your worst critic.”

The best thing for Ironman most likely will be when Providence Equity Partners sells WTC.

Ditto - well said. WTC should come clean, state they made a mistake with IMC and show the remaining IM North American cities that they are human, made a mistake but will ensure they listen to there audience/clients and improve their product and our experience.

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ItsAGoodLifeIfYouTriIt

I agree it does reek of desperation. WTC would have come off better if they had not had such a knee-jerk reaction to losing Penticton as a venue for IMC and took a long, measured look at possibilities for the future.

Am I missing something here? There is no right side and this has never been about the athlete. This is nothing more than 2 kids fighting in the sandbox. Like all things this is about money and how the pie is divided.

Penticton was unhappy and wants more share an a better deal. WTC likes the status quo. Penticton decides to pull the trigger. The mayor expresses shock that WTC would go head to head near by! Did they not way that as a risk when they decided to jump?

WTC decides to go head to head because they want to keep the competition out...not a surprising response.

I think DR. Tommy called this in one of these threads sayin the "grass is always greener". Penticton took a risk that the race may not be as big and bring as much to the local economy when they went with Challenge. Given the history with WTC it was a much safer bet.

Hope it works out for Penticton but it is naive to think that WTC wouldn't respond and naive to think this has any thing to do with anything other than money on both sides.

I don't think anyone really disagrees with you in that decisions were made on all sides primarily from an economic perspective. And I'm sure everyone expected the WTC to respond, but they are asking people to get really excited about a race that has a time and place TBA, and they intend to hold that race next summer, on a date that they apparently feel entitled to. No doubt they want to snuff Challenge out before it gets a foothold in North America. That would be my first response if my competitors moved in next door. But what I'm saying is that the WTC would do better to properly prepare for such a large race by skipping next year's IMC, allowing interested cities to place proper bids and then determining what is the best course of action. On short notice, there is no place to hold IMC other than the Okanagan because no one else has the time to do due diligence to design a potential course. With the WTC pushing this through, you also have to think that the athlete experience has a good chance to be compromised. That may have economic implications down the road.

100% Dev. Too boot WTC told council in Penticton they could only renew 5 year relationships and that moving the race to another location is a "business decision". Whereas, Challenge commits to the community. There are two customers in this equation, the athlete and the community! WTC forgets the latter. What they better be careful of is, Felix has been called by other WTC locations after the announcement (or so he said in an interview published on Competitor.triathlete.com) regarding hosting races. What is happening in Penticton is clear; there is choice for host communities to get more out of triathlon events than what WTC is providing. In the longer term, this is good for us athletes because I suspect it will mean WTC will need to adjust their approach. Lets hope so.

I also find it ironic WTC is failing so miserably on the PR front on this after what they did in Australia when buying IMG and switching Challenge Cairns to IRonman Cairns. Seems they can dish it out, but can't take it!

We agree focus 100% on your customer and the rest takes care of itself. What WTC lost here is the community customer equation.

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@rhyspencer

Is there or do you think there is a potential for a Challenge Championship to compete with Kona? More over, could the WTC include Challenge results/races as Kona qualifiers? Regarding the later, even if Kona were to increase the entry fee for Challenge/Kona qualifiers, it might benefit both races in terms of economics.

Why would WTC want to do anything to benefit Challenge?

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Is there or do you think there is a potential for a Challenge Championship to compete with Kona?

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I do find it interesting when sports self proclaim their championship event as a World Championship. The NBA players self proclaim themselves WORLD CHAMPIONS but they are not, they are NBA Champions. The NFL advertises their superbowl winners as WORLD CHAMPIONS and ditto for World Series in baseball.

So, WTC does same with Kona, the Ironman World Championships. And, given they own the word "IRONMAN" as it relates to triathlon I suppose it is. But again, I find that a rather interesting self proclamation.

Do I see a Challenge Championship? Yes. Do I see it competing with KONA? In time possible, depending on prize purse. Remember, there were a few years when Nice trumped KONA because of money. So, if Challenge want to do that AND have it go toe to toe with KONA, they would need to do it in close proximity on the calendar and offer twice as much money. I am not sure they would be interested in that. It might hurt their brand. My recommendation would be to have a series champion and a rotating championship event and have that championship event somewhat off cycle to KONA. That way, they avoid toe to toe competition and can even have the KONA champ racing their championship event.

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@rhyspencer

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I believe that Challenge has addressed this point and their view is that should they consider a Championship event it would only be in concert with the ITU.Their attitude is "Who are we to declare our own World Championship?" (or words to that effect)

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I think that challenge should have their own series championship in Roth. It does not need to be called a world championship.

Rhys WTC needs a VP of partnerships whose job would be to nurture all key partnerships and strategic alliances. Communities are more like partners than customers as they share revenue with WTC. But yes, it is important in this type of business to put really high importance on that. I am sure they will do that moving forward.

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Unofficially it already is their Championship race.They are even running a competition(which ended this week) where you submitted a funny training picture with a caption and the winner gets a free entry to next years race.

To see the difference in the two just spend some time on the Challenge Family website www.challenge-family.com ,the Challenge Facebook pages or Felix's own Facebook page...These Challenge people are pretty funny and are show the human side of what they are doing....WTC's sites are,well we all know what their sites are like.

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There is no need to blame either side here. This is simply two businesses competing for market share. There is always someone there first and someone trying to move in. No different than Shaw vs Telus, Coke vs Pepsi. In the end the customer usually benefits as a result of the competition. In this case maybe lower registration fees, online registration as opposed to having to go to Penticton and line up & hopefully a better product from both concerned. As long as there is room for both the customer/athlete should benefit. I do think that it would be a mistake however to put a race in the same place (Okanagan) and at the same time. Instead of splitting up the pie they would be splitting one piece of the pie.

Muskoka weighs in...

http://www.xtri.com/...temId.511714680.html

is it really a foregone conclusion IMC is going to take place in 2013?

Hi there Scott B.

IMMT sold out their accommodations for weeks prior to the event and for a week or two after the event within a 75km radius according to an accommodation rep I spoke to while out there. Our region has just over 4500 rooms available within a 1/2h drive. There are a significant number of operators along the bike route too. Another x factor is the large numbers of waterfront cottages that teams and families could rent and have an instant swim location that is safe and clean.

Dev put it well in an article today on xtri after an interview with us. The bid is in...lets see what happens...
http://www.xtri.com/...temId.511714680.html
RT