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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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I think the X factor for Quintana is how the rest of the podium contenders perform in relation to each other. Quintana needs to make a strong move...but he can't do it by himself. There are a ton of situations that would call for contenders to potentially work with Quintana to gain time on TD (if it means possibly jumping spots with another podium contender), and there are just as many situations where contenders would just sit on Quintana and let him burn himself out to pounce on him.

If the gaps between 3rd-5th were closer to TD and/or TD wasn't a superior TTer, I think the others would be more likely to work with Quintana to drop TD...but they need to put around 5 plus minutes into TD before the TT. I think Pinot and Nibali understand that their current goals are the podium and are not the same as Quintana...who should be going all in for Pink.
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
echappist wrote:
H- wrote:
Queen Stage tomorrow. Many say it is best, and maybe last, chance for contenders to break Dumoulin.

Will Dumoulin give up pink or significant time?

Will someone from the break win? And if so, who?


i'd say stage 18 (Thursday) and, to a lesser extent, stage 20 would also matter. Key is to get Dumoulin isolated on the penultimate climb and have Dumoulin chase Quintana up the penultimate climb, through the valley, and on the final climb. Doubtful that he'd be distanced by a lot with attacks just on the last climb


Quintana himself doesn't seem suited to being off the front for very long, though. He seems to do best at quick strikes rather than just riding people into submission. I think the risk to Dumoulin is collusion among the top 4-5 guys. If Pinot or someone goes on the penultimate climb and everyone forces Sunweb to chase, Dumoulin could be alone very quickly. I think the risk to Dumoulin is just completely cracking on the final climb from having to close gaps himself over a period of an hour or more.


we do have that one stage in the 2014 Giro where Quintana attacked the neutral descent and did the lion share of work to drive the break through the valley and onto the final climb. interestingly, also the mountain stage after the last rest day (and on the Stelvio stage, no less), when one could really catch people out.

edit: before Contador's audacious raid in the Fuentes De stage of 2012 Vuelta, no one thought of him as someone who'd go long; so always time for people to try new things
Last edited by: echappist: May 22, 17 15:41
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
trail wrote:
echappist wrote:
H- wrote:
Queen Stage tomorrow. Many say it is best, and maybe last, chance for contenders to break Dumoulin.

Will Dumoulin give up pink or significant time?

Will someone from the break win? And if so, who?


i'd say stage 18 (Thursday) and, to a lesser extent, stage 20 would also matter. Key is to get Dumoulin isolated on the penultimate climb and have Dumoulin chase Quintana up the penultimate climb, through the valley, and on the final climb. Doubtful that he'd be distanced by a lot with attacks just on the last climb


Quintana himself doesn't seem suited to being off the front for very long, though. He seems to do best at quick strikes rather than just riding people into submission. I think the risk to Dumoulin is collusion among the top 4-5 guys. If Pinot or someone goes on the penultimate climb and everyone forces Sunweb to chase, Dumoulin could be alone very quickly. I think the risk to Dumoulin is just completely cracking on the final climb from having to close gaps himself over a period of an hour or more.


we do have that one stage in the 2014 Giro where Quintana attacked the neutral descent and did the lion share of work to drive the break through the valley and onto the final climb. interestingly, also the mountain stage after the last rest day (and on the Stelvio stage, no less), when one could really catch people out.

edit: before Contador's audacious raid in the Fuentes De stage of 2012 Vuelta, no one thought of him as someone who'd go long; so always time for people to try new things

There was also the stage in the 2015 TdF where Quintana attacked Froome at the bottom of Alpe d'Huez and basically went solo the last 10 km (with some help from Anacona who dropped back from the break). Froome had Porte and Poels to guide him up much of the way to limit his losses.
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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McNulty wrote:
break should stick tomorrow.....I'm going with a Cannondale guy.....:)

And I think we probably agree on who we would LIKE it to be.... Just hope they give it a go!!
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [H-] [ In reply to ]
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H- wrote:
Queen Stage tomorrow. Many say it is best, and maybe last, chance for contenders to break Dumoulin.

Will Dumoulin give up pink or significant time?

Will someone from the break win? And if so, who?

Break doesn't stay away.

Movistar is going on the rampage to try and break Dumoulin. The other contenders try to stay in Movi's wake.

Quintana wins the stage, puts 90 seconds into Dumoulin. Not enough.
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [eb] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone have a link to where to watch today?
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [Skippy74] [ In reply to ]
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Skippy74 wrote:
McNulty wrote:
break should stick tomorrow.....I'm going with a Cannondale guy.....:)


And I think we probably agree on who we would LIKE it to be.... Just hope they give it a go!!


Well, looks like they're trying. Joe D. has had a rough spring and he's either been just surviving so far or riding into form.
Last edited by: McNulty: May 23, 17 5:20
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [ridenfish39] [ In reply to ]
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ridenfish39 wrote:
Anyone have a link to where to watch today?

http://rai2.web.tv

Hurry. It is Italian but that is better than hearing the eurosport idiot.

So far nothing from Quintana. I have a feeing that TD is going to increase his buffer today attacking on the final climb.

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [trail] [ In reply to ]
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If Pinot or someone goes on the penultimate climb and everyone forces Sunweb to chase, Dumoulin could be alone very quickly. I think the risk to Dumoulin is just completely cracking on the final climb from having to close gaps himself over a period of an hour or more.

I expected some action on the Stelvio. But after watching the stage, nothing was ever going to happen there. I was fooled by the graphic display of the stage. As it turns out, the valley before the final climb is long, long, long, and by some reports windy. Not good scenario for long range attack.

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [H-] [ In reply to ]
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holy shit..........
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [H-] [ In reply to ]
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Code Brown for Dumoulin?
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [H-] [ In reply to ]
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literally, oh s#1+

hopefully it's not a stomach bug
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Zacharin attacks. Shocking. What a doping dick.
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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" the adrenaline effects everyone differently"
(Sopranos)
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Openers
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Worst timed dump of all time?


--Chris
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [chriselam] [ In reply to ]
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lotta movement in the overall standings.......
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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maybe they'll end up going slower here with all the acceleration and slowing down
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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what a travesty; the other teams can all go to hell.
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
literally, oh s#1+

hopefully it's not a stomach bug

I just read he needed to take a dump.. still have 30s on NQ though. Did they attack him while he was in the bushes???
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [flyrunride] [ In reply to ]
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flyrunride wrote:
echappist wrote:
literally, oh s#1+

hopefully it's not a stomach bug


I just read he needed to take a dump.. still have 30s on NQ though. Did they attack him while he was in the bushes???

Zakarin did.
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [trail] [ In reply to ]
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what a loon, I hope he cracks and falls off the top 10.
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [flyrunride] [ In reply to ]
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flyrunride wrote:
what a loon, I hope he cracks and falls off the top 10.

he's no Denny Menchov.......
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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At this point, Dumoulin still has a 31sec. lead over Quintana and 1:12 on Nibbles with 4 mountainous stages and one TT to go.
I'm in the majority, the contenders (especially Zaharin) should have shown more sportsmanship to the the pink jersy; it also over-shadows a brave effort by Landa and a braver result from the shark.
I think this day will motivate TD tho, he will ride the next 4 stages with a chip on his shoulder & do the TT like a man possessed.
The Giro never fails to entertain!

res, non verba
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [RoYe] [ In reply to ]
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RoYe wrote:
I'm in the majority, the contenders (especially Zaharin) should have shown more sportsmanship to the the pink jersy; it also over-shadows a brave effort by Landa and a braver result from the shark.

Well they did. They neutralized for a while. But they hit the bottom of the climb, and Zakarin had Kruijswijk attacking the breakaway up the road, threatening his GC position. How long do you wait for a guy taking a dump?

I don't know all the Euro peloton rules, but if it's me in a bike race, and I decide to take a dump on the most critical climb, I'm telling the guys, "It's on me - you guys go." Dumoulin had all day and several scripted nature stops to take care of business. Instead he forced the issue at the most critical part of the race. I'm all for respecting the pink jersey, but the jersey doesn't make him a special snowflake who gets to call a neutralized nature break whenever he wants.
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