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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [RoYe] [ In reply to ]
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RoYe wrote:
Not only is this racing hotting up on the course, it's getting heated allround
http://www.cyclingnews.com/...riticism-of-tactics/
Nibbles was quite irritated at TD for some "cocky" remarks after stage18.

Quintana now leads TD by 38sec., but the consensus seems to be he'll need 90 seconds plus for a realistic shot at the overall win.
That means Movistar and Emirates are going to try and gap the pink on tomorrows climbs, and then TTT to the finish.
What a great finish this is shaping up to be!
TDs little cry after the stage reminded me of crybaby cancellara whenever he lost a tt in a grand tour so have to agree with Nibali on this
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [H-] [ In reply to ]
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H- wrote:
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That means Movistar and Emirates are going to try and gap the pink on tomorrows climbs, and then TTT to the finish.

UAE don't have a dog in the hunt or the team to do this. You mean Bahrain-Merida? Or UAE to set up Costa for a stage win?

Oops, yes, I'm meant Bahrain, not Emirates
Was looking at the 39Km stage 10 TT results, Dumoulin was WAY faster than any of the top 6.
Nibbles was 2:07 back, Pinot 2:42, and Quintana 2:53, Zakirin 2:19, Pozzivivo 3:07.
The 21st stage finale is only 28km tho.
Stage 20 is gonna be epic!

res, non verba
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I think Nibali could still take it. He put 40-something seconds into Quintana on first ITT so Quintana not only has to gain on Dumoulin but also not loose anything to Nibali.
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Everyone together on the Monte Grappa 24K climb. This is where Quintana secured his win during the 2014 Giro, but it was an ITT. It's not that steep and Dumoulin should be fine! Cycling news is saying that there is a rumor that Orica and Trek might be working to help Dumoulin win overall. What are your throughts? I can see why Trek would do it, but why Orica?


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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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GC group down to 14 after that crazy Zakarin attack. Mollema dropped, Formolo out, Dumoulin hanging onto the back with 7K to go and now that pack down to 8.
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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It looks like Dumoulin is pacing his way out for tomorrow, trying not to spike any efforts and keeping it all steady. The profile favours that. Descent of Monte Grappa looks super high speed. I am getting motion sick watching out of the eye of the cameraman!
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Reading text updates....so is Dumoulin in the Q group or not? I didn't see his name in the main group w Q and Nib.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Reading text updates....so is Dumoulin in the Q group or not? I didn't see his name in the main group w Q and Nib.

Brooks, he was momentarily on the ropes on Monte Grappa, but reeled things in. Nothing steep enough to drop him. Let's see if anything happens on the final climb, but TD seems to be nicely pacing himself out to open up some kick ass power tomorrow and take the win from the climbing goats. The entire GC crew is together from what I can see after the Monte Grappa descent
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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What a race....top 5 GC minus TD TTTing to the finish 23 second up on TD...only rollers/downhills.

TD has Mollema and Yates (Trek and Orica) to tow him in
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Its all upside down.....Pinot takes back 25 seconds on TD.....30 second separating the top 4 going into the ITT!!! I think TD has this win now.
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Way to go Pinot!...

TD was destroyed at the end. Could have been a lot worse than 15 seconds is Bob of the Jungels wasn't in that group. What a beast.

Zakarin is going to hurt someone if he doesn't learn to ride. Really screwed up their rhythm.
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I'll be on an island by myself in saying I don't think TD wins now. Not after having to iTT after this week. Sorta the death by a thousand cuts when you want your legs to go, they just won't have anything left.

Regardless this has been beautiful to watch.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
I'll be on an island by myself in saying I don't think TD wins now. Not after having to iTT after this week. Sorta the death by a thousand cuts when you want your legs to go, they just won't have anything left.

Regardless this has been beautiful to watch.
Wouldn't be a shock to see any of the top four win.

Heck of a race!

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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If the last couple k were uphill or Jungels wasn't there TD would be been in serious trouble. Should be interesting tomorrow but bet he take some it. Quintana could easily end up 3rd.
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Cycling news is saying that there is a rumor that Orica and Trek might be working to help Dumoulin win overall. What are your throughts? I can see why Trek would do it, but why Orica?

Did you forget the drama at foot of Blockhaus and Orica's reaction?

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
If the last couple k were uphill or Jungels wasn't there TD would be been in serious trouble. Should be interesting tomorrow but bet he take some it. Quintana could easily end up 3rd.

I am not sure if NQ will make the podium, Nibali can TT well and Pinot seems to be riding very well. Nibali needs 39 seconds, Pinot 43, and TD 53.
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [H-] [ In reply to ]
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I think it is still wide open.
If I had to give odds:
Pinot- might be the favorite now. Did he push too hard for stage 19 win?
Maybe - 38% chance
Dumoulin- can he recover enough by tomorrow to win this. (Maybe not).
- 28% chance
Nibbles- did he ride sufficiently within himself to have a big performance tomorrow, are Pinot and Dumoulin too tired. Can he catch Quintana? - 20%
Quintana- has he been saving himself for this? Is he the guy that has given the least of himself so far and who thus has the most left? (I think so). But does he have to enough time? - 12%
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Final standings will be Dumoulin, Pinot +35, Nibali +45

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Velocibuddha wrote:
I think it is still wide open.
If I had to give odds:
Pinot- might be the favorite now. Did he push too hard for stage 19 win?
Maybe - 38% chance
Dumoulin- can he recover enough by tomorrow to win this. (Maybe not).
- 28% chance
Nibbles- did he ride sufficiently within himself to have a big performance tomorrow, are Pinot and Dumoulin too tired. Can he catch Quintana? - 20%
Quintana- has he been saving himself for this? Is he the guy that has given the least of himself so far and who thus has the most left? (I think so). But does he have to enough time? - 12%

It feels like Quintana has given the least of himself in this last week...or he has nothing. On today's stage at the end, he probably misjudged the finishing location and went to early. I have no idea otherwise why he was pulling that early. He gave up important time bonuses. I was pretty sure Pinot was going to win, but NQ can probably jump in a small frontal just as good as the other 4 (he got second in his crash stage).

I am guessing tomorrow's stage will be around 20 min faster for the favourtes than the first TT, but I think NQ can't hold the 53 second on Dumoulin. i am going with Dumoulin-Pinot-NQ-NIbali.

Now can someone get NQ a 650 bike with a rear disk and get him to bury his nose into his front tire please. This position just won't cut it on this bike:


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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Here is why I think Quintana went to the front today with 600m to go:

The bunch was slowing, waiting for the sprint. Quintana was afraid that Pinot, Nibali, etc. - where going to start messing around with that track style super slow tactical stuff - that they do when they really want to win a stage.
Quintana wasn't gonna get the time bonus.
Better to keep the group moving.
Quintana kept the extra seconds on Dumoulin.
Pinot probably would have won even if Quintana had let them slow up.
Last edited by: Velocibuddha: May 27, 17 11:23
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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If Dumoulin loses this Giro, it will have come because of the "oh shit" moment on Umbrailpass on the back side of Stelvio. Until then he as so far ahead that the race for second was the only one. By giving away 2+ minutes right there, he gave the rest of these guys hope that they could chip away with small gaps and stage time bonuses. I hope on tomorrow's ITT there are no crashes and no flats or mechanicals.....just a full blast drag race.

This is going to be like Versailles to Paris 1989 all over again:









The worst part of this podium is that that Pedro Delgado takes the win had he not missed his start time on the stage 1 prologue!!!




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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Velocibuddha wrote:
Here is why I think Quintana went to the front today with 600m to go:

The bunch was slowing, waiting for the sprint. Quintana was afraid that Pinot, Nibali, etc. - where going to start messing around with that track style super slow tactical stuff - that they do when they really want to win a stage.
Quintana wasn't gonna get the time bonus.
Better to keep the group moving.
Quintana kept the extra seconds on Dumoulin.
Pinot might have won anyway.

I was wondering if he had that exact train of thought. It was definitely one of those prisoner dilemma game theory problems playing out at 120% FTP. Keep the pace up to maximize time on TD and gift the other guys the time bonus, or play the game and MAYBE get the time bonus or it all closes down and TD pulls to the back and wins the sprint! It was super fun watching. We had a perfect day for training here and I sat on the trainer to watch the stage for the first hour of my ride and then did the rest outdoors after the stage....I could not leave my screen!
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [H-] [ In reply to ]
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H- wrote:
Final standings will be Dumoulin, Pinot +35, Nibali +45

I think same order, albeit closer gap btwn Dumoulin and Pinot, due to issue of freshness

for those pointing out that Pinot beat Dumoulin in the Romandie time trial, that stage had a proper 3km, 5.5% hill in the middle. This last stage is downhill.

also no rain to make corners tricky, though temperature is on the high side
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [H-] [ In reply to ]
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H- wrote:
Final standings will be Dumoulin, Pinot +35, Nibali +45

I can see Dumoulin on the top step overall, Nibbles 2nd, Quintana 3rd, Pinot.
Pinot has been burning a lot of matches the last 3 stages, does he have any left for tomorrow?
Quintana under performed on the stage 10 TT, he'll redeem himself in the finale.
The shark has chance to take the Giro if he ride the best TT of his life.
Dumoulin will take the pink for 2017.

res, non verba
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Re: Giro Stage by Stage - Discussion & Debate (Spoiler Alert) [H-] [ In reply to ]
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H- wrote:
Final standings will be Dumoulin, Pinot +35, Nibali +45

+1.

Quintana 4th, Zakarin 5th.

Dumoulin is tired, but a downhill time trial into a headwind (predicted) favors him.
Pinot seems fresh and frisky; he's going to move up.
Nibali will do OK, but he needs more cushion to hold those guys off.
Quintana is going to suffer into the headwind, and he has to wear a pink suit which will cost some seconds.
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