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Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible
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My apology if I missed any earlier post but thought the Kickr crew might really appreciate this information regarding regulating their Kickr via their separate power meter output rather then the Kickr's measurement that often seems to drift.

http://forums.transitions.org.au/...pic=64546&page=6

Hugh








Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
Last edited by: sciguy: Jan 12, 15 16:40
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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Your post is of high interest. It is frustrating when the numbers drift apart during a TR workout. I was able to update the firmware to trainer v1.1.2.2 and add my Vectors in the standard wahoo Utility app versus installing Wahooligan. After repairing in TR and a short test comparing power on 510 to the Wahoo fitness app is appears all is inline with one another and the Vectors are controlling the Kickr.

If this is old news, it's new to me and hopefully eliminates the frustration of different power numbers from the Kickr and Vectors.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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Exciting! I've been waiting for this.

Compared to my Quarq, my Kicker typically runs about 10-15w low... I've been running my Garmin to record "true" power from my Quarq while my workout is via Kickr/trainerroad.

However, I've noticed SOMETIMES there is drift during a workout, and sometimes the difference is 20w, and sometimes its 2w. Enough that I end up tweaking the TR resistance percentage if I'm doing Sufferfest or a true Threshold workout.

....

I haven't tried the above process yet, might have time tonight. Once you set it up, does the quarq control the kickr in all applications, or just when you workout with the iPhone Wahoo AP? I.E. will it fix my Trainerroad/sufferfest issues? :)

Thanks
J
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for sharing
I have the steps done up to the firmware update, but do not have a lightning/30 pin cord to use the ANT+ with my phone to test it out.

I will be using the Kickr with TrainerRoad on the laptop in a few minutes and see if it would allow, but my guess is TR will also need an update.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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I'm going to quote the whole post, hope I don't violate any web etiquette


Wahoo wrote:
"Ok so I have been given some info on how to control the kickr using an external power meter to gauge the power. It involves a few processes and firmware updates. I got the following instruction from Wahoo.

Hi Wahooligan,

We are testing KICKR firmware and we would like your feedback for one of our new features. The feature uses the power data from an ANT+ power meter to tune the KICKR's resistance to match the power data of the power meter.

Step 1 is to download the latest Wahoo Fitness beta app. Follow the link below and tap install on the webpage and tap install when prompted. The test app is called Wahooligan and is a beta version of the Wahoo Fitness app. Follow the link below on your iDevice, tap “Install” and tap “Install” when prompted.
Link to App: https://rink.hockeyapp.net/...7abc/app_versions/14

Step 2 is updating the KICKR to firmware version 1.1.3.22 using the Wahoo Utility app and the secret swipe.
Link to Video:

https://www.dropbox....lation.mov?dl=0

Step 3 is configuring your KICKR in the Wahooligan app. You will need to know the ANT ID of each power meter. After tapping “Next” on the initial setup screens, you will arrive at the Wahoo Fitness app home screen.

First, tap on the “Settings” button, then tap on “My Details”. At the bottom of the page next to “Wahooligan Code” is a blank text box. Enter “ilovecupcakes” into the text box and tap done. Next tap “<Settings” and “Done” to return to the home screen.

Second, tap “Sensors” located at the bottom left of the home screen to enter the sensor screen. Tap “Add New Sensor”, tap on your KICKR to enter the sensor configuration page. Scroll down the page and swipe on "Control with ANT+ Power Meter". Tap "ANT+ Power Device ID". The next screen is where you input the ANT ID of the power meter, the app will not locate the power meter for you, unless you have an ANT dongle in your iDevice. Next tap the back arrow, tap save sensor, associate the sensor with a workout profile, tap “Done”, and tap “Done”.

Third, begin a workout. On the third workout page (two swipes right to left) you will see a dot underneath the power display. If the dot is green, then the KICKR is connected to your ANT+ power meter. If the dot is red, then the KICKR has not connected to the power meter.

Here is a link to a video of the configuration of the app:
https://www.dropbox.com/...%28small%29.mov?dl=0

Please let us know what you think about this feature. It may be beneficial to have a device connected to your power meter next to your iDevice controlling the KICKR to get a visual comparison of the KICKR's tuning to match the power meter.

We appreciate your help and look forward to your feedback. Please do not hesitate to contact us with any questions.

Thank you,
Wahoo Fitness"


sciguy wrote:
My apology if I messed any earlier post but thought the Kickr crew might really appreciate this information regarding regulating their Kickr via their separate power meter output rather then the Kickr's measurement that often seems to drift.

http://forums.transitions.org.au/...pic=64546&page=6

Hugh







Eric Reid | Optimized AeroFit
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Felt_Rider] [ In reply to ]
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This is very promising news. I (seemingly along with many others on ST) have experienced upward drift of Kickr reported power compared to a direct force PM, typically 30 - 40W.

When using TR I've been using the common workaround of having a TR FTP and and another "real" FTP on the Garmin and analysis software. The Garmin file being uploaded after the training session to keep things inline with outdoor training values.

While it'd be superb for the two to line up to eliminate the need for this I think it's probably only going to be of use if the TR software was updated to handle this. If you need an iPhone running as an intermediate device to run this then that's just another step to set up before getting on with a training session, and more ANT+ connections to drop and make me say bad words.

I honestly wish Wahoo could've just sorted out the drift, there's clearly an issue with temperature compensation with lots of Kickrs which needs to be resolved. I don't undestand why this has been so difficult for them.

On the other hand, maybe I shouldn't complain. My 330W on the Kickr for a real world 290W is going to make me awesome on Zwift!
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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Has anyone gotten this to work? I followed instructions but got the red dot in the app, meaning my Quarq wasn't controlling the Kickr. So I still had the standard ~30W discrepancy.

Ian
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sneeuwaap] [ In reply to ]
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sneeuwaap wrote:
Has anyone gotten this to work? I followed instructions but got the red dot in the app, meaning my Quarq wasn't controlling the Kickr. So I still had the standard ~30W discrepancy.

Ian


Ian,

Full disclosure- I don't own a Kickr but have tried to assist several folks that do assess whether theirs is working correctly. This led me to keep an eye open for a solution to the drift problem. While hanging out on the Garmin Vector Forum, I found a thread addressing the issue that led to the solution outlined in this thread. There is an ongoing discussion of the solution over on the Garmin forum. It sounds as if the method works well. The relevant part of the discussion starts with the following post.

https://forums.garmin.com/...;p=478089#post478089

Hope that helps.

Hugh







Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
Last edited by: sciguy: Mar 26, 15 5:19
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Jon208] [ In reply to ]
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I simply do two spin-down calibrations (recommended to my by Wahoo). Once at the beginning, then once 15 minutes or so into the workout. Trainer Road pauses automatically and it allows me to change my setup or whatever if I don't like it for first 15 minutes. Yesterday my quarq to Kickr #s went from maybe 7-10% diff for beginning to 1-2% throughout after spindown (and for the actual workout).
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks! I updated just now and ran a 30 second test (Power2Max). The numbers are tracking 1:1 but I guess that's no surprise because I bet they're displaying the PM's wattage not the Kickr's. I'll do an actual workout this evening.
The only think I'm concerned with is having the Kickr apply the breaks erratically considering the wild fluctuations in #s from the power meter but I'm thinking they're smarter than that and they're using some kind of average (3s or 10s)
Last edited by: sp1ke: Jan 12, 15 5:07
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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sp1ke wrote:
Thanks! I updated just now and ran a 30 second test (Power2Max). The numbers are tracking 1:1 but I guess that's no surprise because I bet they're displaying the PM's wattage not the Kickr's.

That's my understanding.

Hugh





Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting ...

I've just had some back-and-forth with Wahoo support on this, and the guy mentioned this was something being developed, but made no mention that it is available now.

I asked whether this was a problem with my unit or whether it's a general issue (knowing that many others have reported also). He said that it is likely a "software issue".

I have ridden mine enough now, with multiple Quarqs, to know that it is a consistent issue with the Kickr.

Doing a spindown at 15 minutes ... or even 30 minutes ... isn't enough. I have found that the drift continues up to at least 60 minutes.

What seems to be working best for me is to do the spindown after a reasonably hard 2 hr session -- then LEAVE IT THERE. Don't do another at the beginning of the next session. This results in the Kickr reading lower at first, then after about 10 min it is the same, after 30 min about 5w higher, then ultimately will settle at 13-18w.

Makes using an erg-based workout from TR a pain. People without an external PM may not be getting accurate numbers. Wow ... my FTP is now 330! (well, not really).

Having it be based off the Quarq reading would be a great solution if it works.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [BrianB] [ In reply to ]
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And I thought this product was the best thing since sliced bread.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't loose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
And I thought this product was the best thing since sliced bread.

.

Hey not everyone can afford not one but two Velotrons;) Sadly in your case, a good deal of their usefulness seems to be largely wasted.

Hugh





Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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sciguy wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
And I thought this product was the best thing since sliced bread.

Hey not everyone can afford not one but two Velotrons;) Sadly in your case, a good deal of their usefulness seems to be largely wasted.

Hugh

I assume he gets them free since he listed them with his sponsors...
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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sciguy wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
And I thought this product was the best thing since sliced bread.

.


Hey not everyone can afford not one but two Velotrons;) Sadly in your case, a good deal of their usefulness seems to be largely wasted.

Hugh





Come on over to my house. We can ride the Velotrons together. No warm ups. No drifting. Just get on, ride, and get our butts kicked.
Now the computrainer does the exact same thing, they just work. You can even pick what type of video we watch on the big screen if you want.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't loose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
sciguy wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
And I thought this product was the best thing since sliced bread.

.


Hey not everyone can afford not one but two Velotrons;) Sadly in your case, a good deal of their usefulness seems to be largely wasted.

Hugh







Come on over to my house. We can ride the Velotrons together. No warm ups. No drifting. Just get on, ride, and get our butts kicked.
Now the computrainer does the exact same thing, they just work. You can even pick what type of video we watch on the big screen if you want.


My wife and I have been riding Computrainers for about 20 years so need to preach to the choir. While a great unit, the Velotron is a bit out of my price range for what one gains with it's exceptional accuracy. You yourself have mentioned that you don't look at the numbers, preferring to just go hard when you should go hard and easy all the rest of the time. Any dumb $200 trainer would let you do that very nicely.

Hugh

  • Velotron Basic (No frame) starts at $6,675


Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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H2oFool: yes we know you and your Computrainer, Velotron, and Powercranks have this Bromance thing going on. You should all get a room and have a 4-way in private. No one here cares anymore.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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If I do this and then put a bike on the kickr that doesn't have a PM on it, will the kickr automaticaly revert to operating as it normally does?



_______________________________________________________
"it's an IRONMAN not PUSSYMAN race" - haole
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [BrianB] [ In reply to ]
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BrianB wrote:
H2oFool: yes we know you and your Computrainer, Velotron, and Powercranks have this Bromance thing going on. You should all get a room and have a 4-way in private. No one here cares anymore.

+1 Yep
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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I could buy 6 Kickr's for the price of one of those.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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sciguy wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
sciguy wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
And I thought this product was the best thing since sliced bread.

.


Hey not everyone can afford not one but two Velotrons;) Sadly in your case, a good deal of their usefulness seems to be largely wasted.

Hugh








Come on over to my house. We can ride the Velotrons together. No warm ups. No drifting. Just get on, ride, and get our butts kicked.
Now the computrainer does the exact same thing, they just work. You can even pick what type of video we watch on the big screen if you want.



My wife and I have been riding Computrainers for about 20 years so need to preach to the choir. While a great unit, the Velotron is a bit out of my price range for what one gains with it's exceptional accuracy. You yourself have mentioned that you don't look at the numbers, preferring to just go hard when you should go hard and easy all the rest of the time. Any dumb $200 trainer would let you do that very nicely.

Hugh

  • Velotron Basic (No frame) starts at $6,675

Yep, assuming you buy new, but I sure am not one who could afford to do that.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't loose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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So does anyone have any useful information as to whether this fix works or not?
Also, if it works for the Wahoo app, does it also work with Trainer Road?
Thx
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ccassidy] [ In reply to ]
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ccassidy wrote:
So does anyone have any useful information as to whether this fix works or not?
Also, if it works for the Wahoo app, does it also work with Trainer Road?
Thx

Sorry the format didn't follow through.

LARSSR
Junior Member
Join DateApr 2014Posts10

Originally Posted by SHERCO290
Can u still use the other Apps that control Kickr (TR, Perf Pro - Imobiles) ETC
Yes, they work as a charm. It's the kickr itself that picks up data from the ant+ power meter instead of it's own.


Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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James Haycraft wrote:
I could buy 6 Kickr's for the price of one of those.

Confucius say man with six power meters never know correct FTP. :)
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