I'm going to start another query with their support and actually see if they can get caught up on this thread and chime in. Seems reasonable, this is probably the most detailed thread I've read on the issue.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [uucee]
[ In reply to ]
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [10kman]
[ In reply to ]
Outside of this thread there is not much talk about this on the web in general and not a peep of it on the Wahoo Facebook page. If I were to guess that the multitude of people buying the Kickr don't really know much about training with power to understand why it is important to have an accurate meter.
I am in a cycling social circle in age of 40 to 60 where many have 7 to 10 thousand dollar bikes and a number of them always go get the latest Garmin Edge just to have and yet never download their ride data or do anything with the expanded capabilities that a $30 dollar Cateye wouldn't do. Even if people were to find out I just don't think most of them are really committed to training with a meter or even understand it. For many it is just another bells and whistle on the description list. Probably just a few on this forum, Wattage and couple other serious forums that have a select group of contributors are the only ones that bought this and would like for it to be accurate as claimed. When you have so many buyers giving kudos on Twitter and FB perhaps one might not be as fast to act on the ~1% that are not as content.
My observation may not be right, but it is my guess at the moment. It would be nice if Wahoo would speak to someone or even post something on their blog that would give us some hope or insight.
I have eMotion rollers and think they are one the best training devices I have purchased. Here is an example of keeping us informed about an upcoming wireless controller that we may be able to add soon.
http://us8.campaign-archive2.com/...62&id=e4dd0117dd
Kudos to Inside Ride for keeping eMotion rollers owners informed and being open about what they are working on. Plus they have always answered my emails, tweets and FB posted questions.
I am in a cycling social circle in age of 40 to 60 where many have 7 to 10 thousand dollar bikes and a number of them always go get the latest Garmin Edge just to have and yet never download their ride data or do anything with the expanded capabilities that a $30 dollar Cateye wouldn't do. Even if people were to find out I just don't think most of them are really committed to training with a meter or even understand it. For many it is just another bells and whistle on the description list. Probably just a few on this forum, Wattage and couple other serious forums that have a select group of contributors are the only ones that bought this and would like for it to be accurate as claimed. When you have so many buyers giving kudos on Twitter and FB perhaps one might not be as fast to act on the ~1% that are not as content.
My observation may not be right, but it is my guess at the moment. It would be nice if Wahoo would speak to someone or even post something on their blog that would give us some hope or insight.
I have eMotion rollers and think they are one the best training devices I have purchased. Here is an example of keeping us informed about an upcoming wireless controller that we may be able to add soon.
http://us8.campaign-archive2.com/...62&id=e4dd0117dd
Kudos to Inside Ride for keeping eMotion rollers owners informed and being open about what they are working on. Plus they have always answered my emails, tweets and FB posted questions.
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Felt_Rider]
[ In reply to ]
Felt_Rider wrote:
Outside of this thread there is not much talk about this on the web in general and not a peep of it on the Wahoo Facebook page. If I were to guess that the multitude of people buying the Kickr don't really know much about training with power to understand why it is important to have an accurate meter. I am in a cycling social circle in age of 40 to 60 where many have 7 to 10 thousand dollar bikes and a number of them always go get the latest Garmin Edge just to have and yet never download their ride data or do anything with the expanded capabilities that a $30 dollar Cateye wouldn't do. Even if people were to find out I just don't think most of them are really committed to training with a meter or even understand it. For many it is just another bells and whistle on the description list. Probably just a few on this forum, Wattage and couple other serious forums that have a select group of contributors are the only ones that bought this and would like for it to be accurate as claimed. When you have so many buyers giving kudos on Twitter and FB perhaps one might not be as fast to act on the ~1% that are not as content.
My observation may not be right, but it is my guess at the moment. It would be nice if Wahoo would speak to someone or even post something on their blog that would give us some hope or insight.
I have eMotion rollers and think they are one the best training devices I have purchased. Here is an example of keeping us informed about an upcoming wireless controller that we may be able to add soon.
http://us8.campaign-archive2.com/...62&id=e4dd0117dd
Kudos to Inside Ride for keeping eMotion rollers owners informed and being open about what they are working on. Plus they have always answered my emails, tweets and FB posted questions.
The other issue is that the ONLY people who know about this are people who have both a KICKR and a crank based power meter (and use both at the same time). I have been using a KICKR for a long time, but just recently put an SRM on the trainer bike. I never thought there would be that much discrepancy between the two.
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Jon208]
[ In reply to ]
I purchased my Kickr in October, 2013 -- it has always been very close to my calibrated and zeroed SRM -- the SRM is usually a few watts above or below the Kickr. I've got weeks of time on the Kickr and it has always been perfect. I do have firmware 26 but have gone back to having the Kickr control itself -- the time response seems much better.
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [PSJoyce]
[ In reply to ]
PSJoyce wrote:
I purchased my Kickr in October, 2013 -- it has always been very close to my calibrated and zeroed SRM -- the SRM is usually a few watts above or below the Kickr. I've got weeks of time on the Kickr and it has always been perfect. I do have firmware 26 but have gone back to having the Kickr control itself -- the time response seems much better.Lucky you :)
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [PSJoyce]
[ In reply to ]
PS, consider yourself very fortunate. That is not the case with many.
Even on this review link below they noted enough difference that if one was targeting 5x5 intervals at L5 or Vo2 you might not even be hitting the correct target if using the Kickr's power and it be 15+ watts off. Heck, you could really be down in L3 instead of L5, but I think most of us would know the difference. We may not be able to sense the difference between L4 and L5 especially if we have residual fatigue from previous training. My understanding of getting the adaptations of L5/Vo2 is a very specific level and one may want to know if they are in it or not.
Those who do not understand training with power, have a coach and believe they are in the coach's prescribed training intensity levels may not be hitting the marks and fail to progress as one would hope. If they are passing data on to the coach, he or she may only see the data and it not tell the truth that the power output was off. In the cases where coaching is done based on email. Same goes for the individual may not be training as efficiently or effectively as they thought. Maybe many triathletes don't focus on that type of training anyway. Maybe it is just me that gets uptight about knowing if I am in the training level that I had hoped.
In the review link below they do a comparison test to SRM. Scroll down to see the comparison test.
http://bikeboard.cc/wahoo-kickr-ber5640
Even on this review link below they noted enough difference that if one was targeting 5x5 intervals at L5 or Vo2 you might not even be hitting the correct target if using the Kickr's power and it be 15+ watts off. Heck, you could really be down in L3 instead of L5, but I think most of us would know the difference. We may not be able to sense the difference between L4 and L5 especially if we have residual fatigue from previous training. My understanding of getting the adaptations of L5/Vo2 is a very specific level and one may want to know if they are in it or not.
Those who do not understand training with power, have a coach and believe they are in the coach's prescribed training intensity levels may not be hitting the marks and fail to progress as one would hope. If they are passing data on to the coach, he or she may only see the data and it not tell the truth that the power output was off. In the cases where coaching is done based on email. Same goes for the individual may not be training as efficiently or effectively as they thought. Maybe many triathletes don't focus on that type of training anyway. Maybe it is just me that gets uptight about knowing if I am in the training level that I had hoped.
In the review link below they do a comparison test to SRM. Scroll down to see the comparison test.
http://bikeboard.cc/wahoo-kickr-ber5640
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Felt_Rider]
[ In reply to ]
If you're talking 15w differences between units measuring at different places at 250-300w, that's about 5% difference (that's the range the article was noting). Most power meters are accuracy +/-2%, so you're right at the envelope if you combine the two ranges.
But that's besides the point, because having tested more power meters than most should ever, you start to realize that having any 3-5 power meters match and order themselves in the same hierarchy of power order each day, day in and day out, inside and outside....is virtually impossible. Seriously, it is. I challenge anyone to try it for a year or two and post the results. No matter how meticulous you are, some days certain PM's are higher than others, or lower than others by some amount. Usually only a few percent, but different swinging one way or the other. No matter how many head units or which ones you use.
Which isn't to say don't trust PM's, but instead, to have a bit of a reality check on where the technology is.
-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
But that's besides the point, because having tested more power meters than most should ever, you start to realize that having any 3-5 power meters match and order themselves in the same hierarchy of power order each day, day in and day out, inside and outside....is virtually impossible. Seriously, it is. I challenge anyone to try it for a year or two and post the results. No matter how meticulous you are, some days certain PM's are higher than others, or lower than others by some amount. Usually only a few percent, but different swinging one way or the other. No matter how many head units or which ones you use.
Which isn't to say don't trust PM's, but instead, to have a bit of a reality check on where the technology is.
-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [10kman]
[ In reply to ]
Guys, I was in the same camp as you. I use a quarq and was worried that getting the wahoo would pose an offset problem that couldn't be overcome and would make my workouts not not target. I got mine in December and noticed I too had an offset, but after all my hemming and hawing, figured out a relatively simple solution. THIS LINK has the date behind that solution (easiest to download the file once it comes up in Drive vs viewing it in Drive)
Quick overview.
A) Rode a KK with a trainer tire for three years with a conti home trainer tire - never had a problem with blowing/eating tires
B) Recently rode on a computrainer and that trainer had an offset the opposite direction of the Kickr, ie it said I was putting out 200W, when it was actually 230 on my Quarq....that will kill a workout quickly
B) I also have a wahoo with an offset. I have the wahooligan app which has solved any offset issue (See point C). If you don't have the app, you can fairly simply do a workout and determine what your offset is and then adjust your FTP in TR or whatever app you use to control the Kickr until the patch comes out.
C) What I did was a workout called tower, has increasing power intervals as long durations, so you can get a workout in and "solve" your offset problem. Make sure to hit the lap buttons when you go to the new power interval and then you just match the power that your PM is measuring and compare it to the power that the kickr is sending to TR. You can see in the link above, I've done a few workouts to figure this out. Before I had the Wahooligan app, I just had a 28W offset applied to my TR FTP. The IF/NP that was recorded from my quarq was usually spot on with the IF/NP that was recorded in TR from the kickr. The key in doing these little tests is to make sure the PM is always "zeroed" before each interval. I know from start to warmed up, my quarq can drift up to 12W (30-40 calibration points). In making sure that the PM is always "zeroed" at the beginning of each interval, you will take out any change in drift between the two units. I didn't do that re-zero in the first workout, but did in the third, and you can see that ~4W difference in the numbers. Once you get in the ballpark, just see if your offset is yielding the right workout metrics and tweak accordingly. It's not elegant, and I understand it doesn't "fix" the wahoo, but it's functional. That is the approach I was using before I got the wahooligan app and it did what I wanted it to, drive my workout to meet the intended workout levels.
D) I checked the wahooligan app in Workout 4, and you can see in the data, it does it's job well.As a note, my offset initially between the quarq and kickr is usually lower till both units warm up and drift.
Andrew
Quick overview.
A) Rode a KK with a trainer tire for three years with a conti home trainer tire - never had a problem with blowing/eating tires
B) Recently rode on a computrainer and that trainer had an offset the opposite direction of the Kickr, ie it said I was putting out 200W, when it was actually 230 on my Quarq....that will kill a workout quickly
B) I also have a wahoo with an offset. I have the wahooligan app which has solved any offset issue (See point C). If you don't have the app, you can fairly simply do a workout and determine what your offset is and then adjust your FTP in TR or whatever app you use to control the Kickr until the patch comes out.
C) What I did was a workout called tower, has increasing power intervals as long durations, so you can get a workout in and "solve" your offset problem. Make sure to hit the lap buttons when you go to the new power interval and then you just match the power that your PM is measuring and compare it to the power that the kickr is sending to TR. You can see in the link above, I've done a few workouts to figure this out. Before I had the Wahooligan app, I just had a 28W offset applied to my TR FTP. The IF/NP that was recorded from my quarq was usually spot on with the IF/NP that was recorded in TR from the kickr. The key in doing these little tests is to make sure the PM is always "zeroed" before each interval. I know from start to warmed up, my quarq can drift up to 12W (30-40 calibration points). In making sure that the PM is always "zeroed" at the beginning of each interval, you will take out any change in drift between the two units. I didn't do that re-zero in the first workout, but did in the third, and you can see that ~4W difference in the numbers. Once you get in the ballpark, just see if your offset is yielding the right workout metrics and tweak accordingly. It's not elegant, and I understand it doesn't "fix" the wahoo, but it's functional. That is the approach I was using before I got the wahooligan app and it did what I wanted it to, drive my workout to meet the intended workout levels.
D) I checked the wahooligan app in Workout 4, and you can see in the data, it does it's job well.As a note, my offset initially between the quarq and kickr is usually lower till both units warm up and drift.
Andrew
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [dcrainmaker]
[ In reply to ]
DCR, thanks for chiming in. We need a calming voice to point out some things we may be over analyzing or falsely stating (I don't mind being corrected. I just want my training to be in the right direction). I agree with what you are saying. My experience is way limited compared to your testing. Out of the 3 power meters that I have the two Quarqs are very close and the G3 is 4 watts lower. The three are close enough for me to trust. I test them at least once a year with a calibrated weight.
When I first started using the Kickr it was to specifically target L5 for shorter intervals in ERG. The first few weeks I used the Kickr's power and my CTL was rising very sharply. I thought it was strange that I could be adapting in fitness that fast. When I put the Quarq equipped bike on the trainer I saw about a 14 watt difference, but did not notice a temperature drift. I probably did not test the two as accurately as you do and just looked at the CSV file and WKO's Multi File Range Analysis tool. This it at least allowed me to see that I was not in L5 as I thought and honestly my legs were telling it was too easy to boot.
Current day using the beta app and firmware using the Quarq to control the L5 intervals are what they are supposed to be - very difficult. I don't expect the two to be dead on the money with each other, but I am pretty sure the Kickr that I have is off enough that I was not hitting the prescribed levels. Of course throwing in a 15 point offset as my FTP in TrainerRoad also worked just as nice, but in that case I had two record the training from the Quarq to the Edge and use it as my WKO upload.
Thanks for contributing. I think most of us are just trying to figure out how to use this.
When I first started using the Kickr it was to specifically target L5 for shorter intervals in ERG. The first few weeks I used the Kickr's power and my CTL was rising very sharply. I thought it was strange that I could be adapting in fitness that fast. When I put the Quarq equipped bike on the trainer I saw about a 14 watt difference, but did not notice a temperature drift. I probably did not test the two as accurately as you do and just looked at the CSV file and WKO's Multi File Range Analysis tool. This it at least allowed me to see that I was not in L5 as I thought and honestly my legs were telling it was too easy to boot.
Current day using the beta app and firmware using the Quarq to control the L5 intervals are what they are supposed to be - very difficult. I don't expect the two to be dead on the money with each other, but I am pretty sure the Kickr that I have is off enough that I was not hitting the prescribed levels. Of course throwing in a 15 point offset as my FTP in TrainerRoad also worked just as nice, but in that case I had two record the training from the Quarq to the Edge and use it as my WKO upload.
Thanks for contributing. I think most of us are just trying to figure out how to use this.
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [dcrainmaker]
[ In reply to ]
dcrainmaker wrote:
If you're talking 15w differences between units measuring at different places at 250-300w, that's about 5% difference (that's the range the article was noting). Most power meters are accuracy +/-2%, so you're right at the envelope if you combine the two ranges. But that's besides the point, because having tested more power meters than most should ever, you start to realize that having any 3-5 power meters match and order themselves in the same hierarchy of power order each day, day in and day out, inside and outside....is virtually impossible. Seriously, it is. I challenge anyone to try it for a year or two and post the results. No matter how meticulous you are, some days certain PM's are higher than others, or lower than others by some amount. Usually only a few percent, but different swinging one way or the other. No matter how many head units or which ones you use.
Which isn't to say don't trust PM's, but instead, to have a bit of a reality check on where the technology is.
So are you saying, since you gave a glowing review of the Kickr, that folks are getting what they paid for? Can you show me in the Kickr spec that the issues folks are having is what they purchased?
Now I have always respected your reviews. But if you are trying to tell me that the Kickr is the best trainer on the market and these issues with power folks are reporting are just a bunch bitching, well, ....
.
Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net
Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist
Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [h2ofun]
[ In reply to ]
h2ofun wrote:
So are you saying, since you gave a glowing review of the Kickr, that folks are getting what they paid for? Can you show me in the Kickr spec that the issues folks are having is what they purchased? Now I have always respected your reviews. But if you are trying to tell me that the Kickr is the best trainer on the market and these issues with power folks are reporting are just a bunch bitching, well, ....
.
No, I'm saying that it's any power meter on the market - none are absolutely identical day in and day out and none always match a constellation of 2-3 others in the same power order day in and day out. Yes, even the CompuTrainer (which, I use far more often than people realize in PM testing).
-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
Last edited by:
dcrainmaker: Feb 9, 15 8:21
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [h2ofun]
[ In reply to ]
I don't think anyone here posting up data and experiences is even looking for the numbers to match at this point, if it was CONSISTENT we'd be able to adjust accordingly.
Drift can't be fixed without Wahoo's helping us with that. And by helping, that doesn't mean giving us an app that lets us use ANOTHER expensive power meter to control their expensive power meter, I mean a solution.
Felt is, in my opinion, right on the money. People buy these new whiz bang products and have nothing to go off of. Long time power trainer here, and long time trainer overall, know my body and know "feels", that's how I knew something was way off with this stuff. I used the Quarq to confirm, as many have.
If it was always 50 watts high no matter what, I'd adjust my FTP and call it a day. I can't have it close one day, drifting the next, off by something ridiculous the next time, etc.
Too expensive of a gizmo to not work. I don't personally know anyone else with a Kickr, but since this is my 2nd, with the same problem, I'll count that as 2 people with same problem.
Drift can't be fixed without Wahoo's helping us with that. And by helping, that doesn't mean giving us an app that lets us use ANOTHER expensive power meter to control their expensive power meter, I mean a solution.
Felt is, in my opinion, right on the money. People buy these new whiz bang products and have nothing to go off of. Long time power trainer here, and long time trainer overall, know my body and know "feels", that's how I knew something was way off with this stuff. I used the Quarq to confirm, as many have.
If it was always 50 watts high no matter what, I'd adjust my FTP and call it a day. I can't have it close one day, drifting the next, off by something ridiculous the next time, etc.
Too expensive of a gizmo to not work. I don't personally know anyone else with a Kickr, but since this is my 2nd, with the same problem, I'll count that as 2 people with same problem.
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [dcrainmaker]
[ In reply to ]
dcrainmaker wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
So are you saying, since you gave a glowing review of the Kickr, that folks are getting what they paid for? Can you show me in the Kickr spec that the issues folks are having is what they purchased? Now I have always respected your reviews. But if you are trying to tell me that the Kickr is the best trainer on the market and these issues with power folks are reporting are just a bunch bitching, well, ....
.
No, I'm saying that it's any power meter on the market - none are absolutely identical day in and day out and none always match a constellation of 2-3 others in the same power order day in and day out. Yes, even the CompuTrainer (which, I use far more often than people realize in PM testing).
Just wondering, when was the last time you have seem folks complaining about CT's drifting? I cannot remember one.
I even have to consider buying a power meter to use with a 1K trainer is, well, just amazing.
I could care less if my trainer and power meters "match". What I care about is my trainer does not drift during a session, or different sessions. Same comment for a power meter. I just want it to stay the same
so I can compare numbers week in and week out.
When I get on my trainer and spin at 193 watts, I could care less if it really is 193 watts, but I want it 193 watts during the entire ride, and every ride I do on it when it says 193 watts. Does the Kickr do this
for everyone who purchased today?
I just feel based on your reviews you for some reason seem to be letting the Kickr issues off the hook, which is not what I would expect from you.
.
Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net
Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist
Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [dcrainmaker]
[ In reply to ]
dcrainmaker wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
So are you saying, since you gave a glowing review of the Kickr, that folks are getting what they paid for? Can you show me in the Kickr spec that the issues folks are having is what they purchased? Now I have always respected your reviews. But if you are trying to tell me that the Kickr is the best trainer on the market and these issues with power folks are reporting are just a bunch bitching, well, ....
.
No, I'm saying that it's any power meter on the market - none are absolutely identical day in and day out and none always match a constellation of 2-3 others in the same power order day in and day out. Yes, even the CompuTrainer (which, I use far more often than people realize in PM testing).
I think most of us that have PM's understand this.
The KICKR is OFF though. I'm pretty anal about numbers... and even bought a 20kg calibrated weight just to make sure my SRM was not off. I recalculated my SRM slope.
With that in mind... the KICKR is off 10-30 watts (10 is the best it ever is). Usually in the 20-25 watt range.
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [h2ofun]
[ In reply to ]
h2ofun wrote:
Just wondering, when was the last time you have seem folks complaining about CT's drifting? I cannot remember one. I even have to consider buying a power meter to use with a 1K trainer is, well, just amazing.
I could care less if my trainer and power meters "match". What I care about is my trainer does not drift during a session, or different sessions. Same comment for a power meter. I just want it to stay the same
so I can compare numbers week in and week out.
When I get on my trainer and spin at 193 watts, I could care less if it really is 193 watts, but I want it 193 watts during the entire ride, and every ride I do on it when it says 193 watts. Does the Kickr do this
for everyone who purchased today?
I just feel based on your reviews you for some reason seem to be letting the Kickr issues off the hook, which is not what I would expect from you.
.
Funny, CompuTrainer's are well known to drift during the first 15-20 minutes. Something I've shown time and time again in power meter tests, with either of the two CT's I've owned that Racermate has validated as perfectly fine.
But, that's besides the point.
My point is, I have no doubt that some people here have a problem with drift or just flat out inaccuracies (i.e. 50w). I'm not saying there aren't some. But there are also post power meters between PM's on the KICKR that don't have those issues. Which is to say that, like all posts about people having a technical problem - they tend only to attract like-people having the same problem. Not people not having the problem (though there actually have been people in this post noting otherwise).
But 7w, or even 10w, on 250-300? You're beyond the combined accuracy spec of the platforms.
-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [dcrainmaker]
[ In reply to ]
dcrainmaker wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Just wondering, when was the last time you have seem folks complaining about CT's drifting? I cannot remember one. I even have to consider buying a power meter to use with a 1K trainer is, well, just amazing.
I could care less if my trainer and power meters "match". What I care about is my trainer does not drift during a session, or different sessions. Same comment for a power meter. I just want it to stay the same
so I can compare numbers week in and week out.
When I get on my trainer and spin at 193 watts, I could care less if it really is 193 watts, but I want it 193 watts during the entire ride, and every ride I do on it when it says 193 watts. Does the Kickr do this
for everyone who purchased today?
I just feel based on your reviews you for some reason seem to be letting the Kickr issues off the hook, which is not what I would expect from you.
.
Funny, CompuTrainer's are well known to drift during the first 15-20 minutes. Something I've shown time and time again in power meter tests, with either of the two CT's I've owned that Racermate has validated as perfectly fine.
But, that's besides the point.
My point is, I have no doubt that some people here have a problem with drift or just flat out inaccuracies (i.e. 50w). I'm not saying there aren't some. But there are also post power meters between PM's on the KICKR that don't have those issues. Which is to say that, like all posts about people having a technical problem - they tend only to attract like-people having the same problem. Not people not having the problem (though there actually have been people in this post noting otherwise).
But 7w, or even 10w, on 250-300? You're beyond the combined accuracy spec of the platforms.
Mine is off 20-25+ (sometimes as much as 35) watts all the time... from 150 to 325...
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [PSJoyce]
[ In reply to ]
They should do a biopsy on yours to find out what's going right.
http://www.clperformancetraining.com
http://www.pillasport.ca
http://www.clperformancetraining.com
http://www.pillasport.ca
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [al-gorithm]
[ In reply to ]
al-gorithm wrote:
They should do a biopsy on yours to find out what's going right.Hysterical :)
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98]
[ In reply to ]
Donzo98 wrote:
Mine is off 20-25+ (sometimes as much as 35) watts all the time... from 150 to 325...I'd say 35w is obviously too high. 20w might be on the fringe if at 325, but not at 150w (unless you're talking very high/low cadences (under 50, over 135RPM) where you sometimes see odd variations in PM's/trainers handling).
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My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98]
[ In reply to ]
Hard to say. My numbers seem different than what I've seen reported here. Offset has always been in the range of 1274 - 1276 and spindown time about 30 seconds. I have not tested it rigorously -- eyeball of SRM on PC7 and Kickr on Garmin simultaneously have always been very close. I did a 90 minute ride last week with the same average power between the two devices, so I haven't had a reason to explore more.
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [dcrainmaker]
[ In reply to ]
dcrainmaker wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
Mine is off 20-25+ (sometimes as much as 35) watts all the time... from 150 to 325...I'd say 35w is obviously too high. 20w might be on the fringe if at 325, but not at 150w (unless you're talking very high/low cadences (under 50, over 135RPM) where you sometimes see odd variations in PM's/trainers handling).
Nope... cadence is always 88-93... ALWAYS :)
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [dcrainmaker]
[ In reply to ]
I went through a bout of high wattage. It was always 35 watts high, same as many here. I posted about it in the other thread, but after moving it around and changing locations with it, it was high. I started testing, and tracking and my protocol was to zero SRM and spindown the KICKR at the start of each workout and then I'd progressively ramp up the wattage and spin down every 10 minutes. The delta would shrink from 35 watts to 15 watts to 5 watts too high. This went on for some weeks, in the mean time started using dehumidifier and heater in garage and also, maybe by accident, left the spindown from the end of a workout on the KICKR.
Now it starts reading *low* but evens out after I get it going, and if it's a longer workout will start reading high at the the end. It was sort of an accidental discovery. So now I don't touch the spindown and offset of the KICKR anymore.
During my spindowns the temperature got higher and higher but the offset remained consistently between 655 adn 657. Occasionally the KICKR utility would report resetting "level" to 2 or something.
FWIW all my testing was done in erg mode.
At any rate, I was very happy before I moved and jostled the unit and I'm very happy again now that it has settled down.
I'd say 35w is obviously too high. 20w might be on the fringe if at 325, but not at 150w (unless you're talking very high/low cadences (under 50, over 135RPM) where you sometimes see odd variations in PM's/trainers handling).
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Now it starts reading *low* but evens out after I get it going, and if it's a longer workout will start reading high at the the end. It was sort of an accidental discovery. So now I don't touch the spindown and offset of the KICKR anymore.
During my spindowns the temperature got higher and higher but the offset remained consistently between 655 adn 657. Occasionally the KICKR utility would report resetting "level" to 2 or something.
FWIW all my testing was done in erg mode.
At any rate, I was very happy before I moved and jostled the unit and I'm very happy again now that it has settled down.
dcrainmaker wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
Mine is off 20-25+ (sometimes as much as 35) watts all the time... from 150 to 325...I'd say 35w is obviously too high. 20w might be on the fringe if at 325, but not at 150w (unless you're talking very high/low cadences (under 50, over 135RPM) where you sometimes see odd variations in PM's/trainers handling).
Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ericM40-44]
[ In reply to ]
Yep, same here, consistently can get to about 24-32W of drift depending on the length of the workout. If you guys do a couple tests and track the number, I think you will find it's more consistent than you think it is. Apply the offset and move on.It worked for me for the month that I did it that way. Never touched the FTP offset after that and workout metrics lined up very well.
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [agreif]
[ In reply to ]
not sure I understand what you're saying but I, after having consistent 35w high readings on the KICKR, got it in a climate controlled environment and left the offset from mid to end of workout on the KICKR and I'm good now.
5 watts low at start and low wattages and 5 watts high at end of workout and high wattages (and heat I assume).
Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
5 watts low at start and low wattages and 5 watts high at end of workout and high wattages (and heat I assume).
agreif wrote:
Yep, same here, consistently can get to about 24-32W of drift depending on the length of the workout. If you guys do a couple tests and track the number, I think you will find it's more consistent than you think it is. Apply the offset and move on.It worked for me for the month that I did it that way. Never touched the FTP offset after that and workout metrics lined up very well.Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ericM40-44]
[ In reply to ]
ericM40-44 wrote:
.........left the spindown from the end of a workout on the KICKR. Now it starts reading *low* but evens out after I get it going, and if it's a longer workout will start reading high at the the end. It was sort of an accidental discovery. So now I don't touch the spindown and offset of the KICKR anymore.
Eric, I am not sure if you were the one that gave advice to do a spindown at the end of a long workout and then leave it alone. For me that turned out to be one of the best points of advice so far other than using the Quarq to control and record.
IMO - I don't think there is anything wrong with us discussing what we can do to improve how to use this trainer. I wish there was a Wahoo rep here to bat some of these ideas around with us and let us know what they find in their testing with warm ups, spindowns and other procedures. This is the first of this type trainer that I have owned. Until I started using the Kickr in August 2014 I've used a power meter with the KK fluid trainer or eMotion rollers. Even though my power meters may vary slightly I have never had this much trouble trying to figure out how to balance it out so that I feel like my training is going in the right direction and that the recorded data makes sense in the applications tracking the compiled information.
With certain power meters we get a sense of process. With my older Quarq I had a process when I used in transitional training weather of how and when I did the zero offset and when I may repeat if the weather warmed up during training. I am fully accepting of this trait for the Quarq Cinqo and still use it. I just needed to know what to do and when to do it. I appreciate those sharing ideas like belt tensioning and when it may be best to do a spindown. Maybe we can find a way to refine the preworkout setup process.