While people are doing tests, I wouldn't mind hearing if other Kickrs do what my kickr does:

-Go into sim mode
-Do a simulated downhill (-6% or so) and let the flywheel build up a big head of steam (60+ km/h)
-Switch to a steep simulated uphill (+6%) and keep pedaling at about the same level.

Note the power levels that come out when you switch to the steep uphill (on mine, a hill like this would cause a huge spike in power for 2-3 seconds). I've noticed this a ton in TdG, and my theory is that the kickr firmware isn't accounting for the energy stored in the flywheel. As the brake reels in the flywheel, the decelerating flywheel applies a torque to the strain gauge, and the kickr then thinks you've done a huge sprint.

Most annoyingly for TdG, when you go over the top of a hill, the opposite occurs: as your pedaling spins up the flywheel, the torque basically bypasses the strain gauge and it reads low. When you're trying to stay in a pack of riders as you start going downhill over the top of a climb, this is brutal. If anyone is on the zwift beta, it'd be interesting to hear if the same thing happens there.

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STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016

thanks - ran Sufferfest Blender today displaying Quarq power on TR to keep a careful eye on the differences, and TBH the numbers were so close during the work intervals that I think I'm one of the lucky ones with a very accurate and consistent early machine - bought Nov 2013. At 300w FTP intervals the numbers were so close it really seemed like the only difference was the slight lag the Quarq always gives in transmitting the data. I'd say mine is within 2% at 300w once the Quarq is warmed and zeroed.

If anything changes I'll do the belt resistance tweak as it sounds a good idea.

We hate you :)

I'm not jealous of his accurate Kickr. (good to see you over here BP) :-)
My FTP jumped up 20 watts practically overnight with the 2014 version Kickr. :-)

That stupid beta however brought things back into reality :(

Just think of all those who are blissfully ignorant and claiming to have a high FTP.
Kind of reminds me of a guy that only trained on machines and claimed to bench 300+ lbs. When we put him on a real bench with free weight 315 it dropped straight on his chest. He did not have near the strength he thought.

I agree... I thought I was just getting stonger... :)

Turns out I am weak and have a broken trainer :)

On the plus side, it only cost us a grand to learn that!

Think of the race fees, fuel, wear and tear on the car, and tolls it saves us from doing it the hard way.

I think I am going to use Krispy's technique to make my FTP 400 :)... and then never ride outside again.

:D

Love my Kickr and very happy with the sessions I get with it - Sufferfest in ERG mode is a true ar5e kicking when it doesnt read high. Used last summer it helped me reach the greatest numbers I've ever seen and best 7 days in the Alps I could imagine.

My slight frustration is the lag in power numbers the Quarq sends out. Its better with the latest firmware but still a few seconds behind. Makes short intervals like 10-20 secs show low accuracy numbers in TR as the power numbers arent sync'd with the TR resistance levels.

Thanks to Krispy's hack, I just lost 23w FTP. Overall NP was was 1w difference vs my garmin/power2max combo. My intervals were within +/-2w at levels 60-110% FTP. I'm a happy camper now.

My Kickr is being considered as a 'hardware failure' and going back to Wahoo, so hopefully I get one with a preinstalled super firmware update with four 9's accuracy :-). As for the Quarq, I just recently switched over to one and have noticed the same delay and actually I am seeing a few drops (on my Garmin). I need to see if the drops are interference from other electronics, wireless etc.

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Non-Swimming Duathlete

Oh boy... I would hate to be on other end of the phone line when the new one comes back reading 25 watts high :)

Help me understand why using this hack you loosen the belt first? Wouldnt you just need to tighten it if your kickr is reading below the quarq? Here's my situation in case anyone has suggestions:

- Got the Kickr for Christmas. Its in my pain cave (extra garage) where it gets cold until I turn on the space heaters before a workout
- Have a used Quarq S975. Its in the Pain Cave too.
- Set up and spin down went fine. First few (5-10) rides were within 5 watts on avg (with Kickr being the slightly higher)
- Got into the Zwift beta and did one ride. Noticed some big variances between the Zwift ride and my quarq data while riding
- Since that ride, I haven't used Zwift again. I am now consistently around 20w lower on the Quarq now during main sets
- Kickr data lines up with what I get from the TR Virtual Power. Quarq is 20-30w below both of these
- Quarq calibrated and the numbers range from -430 to -460
- Kickr spin down calibration and is always between 508 and 511 offset.

So did something happen when using Zwift? Is the cold a factor? Is the old Quarq the problem? Or do I just adjust the belt since I'll be using the quarq on the road and it doesnt matter what the Kickr is saying?

You loosen the belt first as otherwise there is a risk that when you tighten it to 'align it' with the numbers from your PM, you will end up over-tightening it causing it to squeal and cause issues. Loosening it slightly means you have more headroom for adjustment before you get near over tightening.



Sorry to hear that - I know how it feels to spend a load of cash and get mentally invested into something, and then find you got a dud. You kick yourself for your judgement and get fed up with the brand etc as well. I hope it gets sorted with your replacement.

FYI, my Quarq used to suffer frequent dropouts and I tried everything. They 'seemed' to happen more indoors so I checked every other bit of tech for interference risk and nothing I did made any difference. It was in the garage with relatively little to interfere but anyway... I suspect it dropped just as much outdoors but given we watch the road and not the screen anything like as much I suspect we miss it. When I updated the firmware a couple of weeks ago it seems to have eliminated 99% of the dropouts so far - just anecdotal but I think today was the first dropout I have seen in quite a few workouts since the update. My Elsa was about 20 months old and when it updated it was 14 versions of firmware out of date. I'd make sure you update the f/w immediately and see if that helps. It was very easy using the Qualvin app once I got an Ant+ dongle for my iPhone - took 5 mins max.

Good luck.

I've got the same PM as you and noticed that virtual power was about the same 20W higher than the quarq reading, so based on that extremely limited sample size of 2 the quarq being 20W lower than teh TR Virtual and Wahoo doesn't strike me as odd.

Is there any rumor about the release date of the new firmware (controlling the kickr via external PM)?

My understanding is virtual power with a KK is pretty consistent, especially since it is TR's primary fluid trainer that they used for virtual power. So my thought it KK virtual power is similar between trainers, even if it's not correct on an absolute scale.

No... but there are a few of us on a notification list from Wahoo.

I don't know about the release date, but last week I emailed support and asked VERY NICELY if I could PLEASE get access to the beta. They set me up... Not sure if this will work in all cases but doesn't hurt to ask them.

seems to be possible to control kickr with perfpro soon :

First ride this morning where my 2-day old Stages power meter controlled my KICKR. I would say it was about 92% awesome!
A few things to expect...
- KICKR shows power meter's watts when you want it too. Some of you have been grinding me for a year to get this done so, you know, you're welcome. Ping me if you need an address to send the beer.
...
- When that PM option is enabled, KICKR gets controlled based on the power meter. I'm not leveraging the recent KICKR/SRM BETA firmware updates yet, but will likely down the road as the feedback comes in.For now, my math still works well, but will need a broader audience with several types of crank/pedal-based power meters. This option can be applied to PowerBeams as well.
- Power meters now show L/R torque effectiveness and pedal efficiency if your PM supports it. This is sort of like SpinScan for the CompuTrainer, but not as "graphable". if you're using it with a KICKR (or PowerBeam) then those stats are recorded. Those stats may be displayed in the custom display otherwise you'll see it in Analyzer's reports.
Keep an eye out for the next BETA,

Just a follow up from another ST thread on TrainerRoad. Ask for clarification and here it is. I believe Krispy had it right.

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rbrnut wrote:
Nate this one has surfaced before and has been battered around a little on the other thread here on controlling the Kickr with another power meter. Seems to be a lot of confusion around how this is intended to function.

In TR unchecking the 'Use Power from an Electronic Trainer' on the profile tab enables TR to read and display power/cadence from another power source (crank-based, Vectors etc). Correct? So that is the display aspect. Does the PM then communicate these values to the Kickr and the Kickr adjusts resistance accordingly? Or is TR simply displaying the values from the PM and the Kickr is still setting resistance based on what the TR workout is specifying?

I'm guessing it is the latter since the proposed Wahoo firmware release is supposed to give us the former behavior. And that's why those with severe Kickr drift issues are seeing wide ranges between their displayed power and what Kickr thinks it's producing. Thanks for any clarification.
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(from Nate @ TrainerRoad)

All that does it make it so if you have a power meter and trainer connected it will read the power from the trainer and read the cadence from the power meter. It's a bad name and we're going to change it.

It doesn't do anything with feeding the data back into the trainer. As you've said, the Wahoo update will do that (which should be awesome).

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Non-Swimming Duathlete

You're lucky on that. I just sent my trainer back, not for replacement, but to be repaired (top-to-bottom check they claim). I asked them to kindly send it back with the updated firmware and I would be a Beta app test for them... We'll see.

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Non-Swimming Duathlete

When did they say you will have it back?? I'm really interested to see if it comes back re-calibrated and closer to your external PM.

BTW... I assume they are doing this for free... Right?

this is actually useful as now I don't have to manually start and stop workouts now when using my KICKR.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

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No ETA on how long the service check and repair will take. There was no cost since I'm within the warranty period and they sent a prepaid Fedex shipping label.

I will be sure to post my results when it returns.

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Non-Swimming Duathlete