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Breaking News: Greg Lemond
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Minneapolis, MN -- Greg Lemond today released a statement that said he has, reluctantly and with great sadness, been forced to add the 2006 Tour de France to the long list of tours that he should have won. Lemond initially believed, and was even quoted in an earlier interview as saying, that this was the first clean Tour de France in many years. However, in light of the recent positive doping test of tour winner Floyd Landis, Lemond has concluded that, in all likelihood, he himself should have won the tour this year.

This brings the total number of Tours de France That Lemond Should Have Won (TDFTLSHW) to 167. Lemond first won the tour in 1986. However, as he has explained many times over the years since, he should have won the Tour in 1985, but was lied to by Bernard Hinault and cheated out of the race victory. Lemond next should have won the Tour in 1987 and 1988, but was incapacitated by a shotgun blast from his brother-in-law. While the incident was ruled an accident by the police, Lemond believes that his brother-in-law was working with Hinault and a young Texan by the name of Lance Armstrong to remove him from the sport.

Lemond came back to win the Tour in 1989 and 1990, but lost in 1991 due to the fact that, as incredible as it may sound, every other rider in the Tour de France besides Lemond was taking performance enhancing drugs. Lemond believes these drugs were supplied by Bernard Hinault, who realized that if nothing were done, Lemond would continue to win the Tour for the next 50 years. The drug-tainted Tour would continue through 2005, including the reign of Lance Armstrong. In the absence of doping, Lemond clearly would have won the Tour from 1991 to 2005, bringing the total number of TDFTLSHW to 21.

Going back before 1985, Lemond believes that in all likelihood, he would have won the Tour de France each year since his birth in 1961 if a) he had known about it and b) he had not had the small stature and limited leg length common to children between the ages of 0 and 10. As Lemond explains, clearly it would be unfair to him to discount the Tour wins he should have achieved were he only able to reach the pedals of his bicycle. This brings the TDFTLSHW to 45.

While Lemond concedes that some may believe him to be "stretching it" by including in his TDFTLSHW years from Tours before his birth, he claims that if one is to think about it logically, the only possible conclusion is that the greatest bike rider in the history of the Tour would absolutely have won the Tour since its inception in 1903, if only he had been alive at that time. It was not Greg Lemond's fault that his parents were not alive and able to conceive him in time to ride the initial Tour in 1903; thus, it would be unfair to strip him of the Tour wins that he rightly should have been awarded.

Note that there have been 11 years since its creation in 1903 that the Tour de France was not held due to the two World Wars. Clearly, stopping the Tour due to worldwide war would have been unfair to Greg Lemond, had he been alive, and would have in all likelihood, been a move orchestrated by Bernard Hinault, had he himself been alive, to keep Lemond from winning the tour. Thus, Lemond believes that these years should also be included in the TDFTLSHW, giving him a total of 103 wins.

Finally, Lemond explains that he has included the years between the invention of the bicycle to the first Tour de France (1839 to 1903) in the TDFTLSHW. Had the French had the foresight to create the Tour de France in a more timely manner, Lemond would have definitely won it each and every year, again assuming he had been alive (see above). Obviously Lemond cannot be blaimed for the shortsightedness and general ineptitude of the French, and therefore the victory from the Tours de France that should have been held in these years must be credited to Lemond, bringing the final tally of TDFTLSHW to 167.

Note that while Lemond has not yet been able to rationalize including years before the invention of the bicycle in the TDFTLSHW, he has created a company to pursue such an effort. The company is hard at work on a rationalization and hopes to produce one for him within the year.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome!
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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Hilarious! My BF will crack up over this. He's always saying LeMond is an angry little man.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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Nice work.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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that is great
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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That's sums it up perfectly.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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This rules!!!
I nearly lost frappamochachino latte soy half caff when I read it.

fal7
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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LOL ..hilarious .thanks for the good laugh!


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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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TDFTLSHW LOL!

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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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Excellent!

"completely reneged on the reacharound"

Most excellent! ("What's so funny, dad?")

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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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totally asinine.

I'm really, really tired of the Lemond bashing. Gee - I wonder why Greg is bitter?

Maybe it has something to do with all the jerk offs he has had to deal with, respond to, and take shots from during and after his illustrious career.

Greg is a pretty decent guy, and a guy who has a deep unalloyed love for a sport he sees crumbling down under the weight of it's own illegal and immoral conduct. He speaks his mind, and is remarkably unconcerned with how his statements are perceived, and how they make him appear in the court of public opinion. I think he deserves a hell of a lot of credit for that.

This post isn't "huge" - it's a piece of crap, unwarranted shot at a complicated individual whose single biggest crime is that he says out loud what more circumspect individuals mutter under their breath, and behind people's backs.

Greg has the balls to say what he thinks, and when he was healthy, he had the legs to back up those balls, and in a way only 2 or 3 riders in history have been able to.

Greg had Mercx level talent, and was forced to watch (on more than one occasion) as the opportunity to excercise that talent was taken away from him.

I am willing to go out on a limb and state the following:

There is no one on this site who woke up one morning and realized that they could well have within themselves the talent and ability to be the single greatest professional cyclist in history.

No one here was forced to follow that thought up with the realization that despite winning (on multiple occasions,) both the TDF and the World Championships, they would never be able to fulfill their potential due entirely to circumstances beyond their control.

No one here has ever entered a bike race against the best riders in the world, knowing - and having proven - that you are stronger than all of them, only to watch as they ride away from you under the influence of illegal performance enhancing drugs.

No one here has a Palmares that looks like this:

1981
1st of Coors Classic
- 1st of the 1st stage
- 1st of the 7th stage
1st of the 1st stage (b) of the Tour of Oise
3rd of Critérium of Dauphiné Liberé
3rd of the Tour of the Tarn
5th of the Trophy of the Climbing ones
11th of International Critérium
47th of the World Championship

1982
1st of the Tour du Pourvenir
- 1st of the 4th stage
- 1st of the 5th stage
- 1st of the 8th stage
2nd of the World Championship
2nd of the Mediterranean Tour
3rd of the Tour of Corsica
3rd of Tirreno-Adriatico
- 1st of the 3rd stage
3rd of the G.P of Rennes
11th of Ghent-Wevelgem
17th of Milan-San Remo

1983
Champion of the World
1st of Critérium of Dauphiné Liberé
- 1st of the 1st stage
- 1st of the 5th stage
- 1st of the 7th stage (b)
1st of Critérium of the Aces in Geneva
1st of the 1st stage of the Mediterranean Tour
2nd of Giro di Lombardia
2nd of the G.P of the Nations
4th of the Tour of Switzerland
4th of Blois-Chaville
10th of the Flèche Wallonne
10th of Tirreno-Adriatico
12th of Paris-Brussels
12th of Ghent-Wevelgem
Abandonment the Vuelta a España

1984
3rd of the Tour of France
- 1st of the 3rd stage (chrono by teams)
3rd of Liege-Bastogne-Liege
3rd of Critérium of Dauphiné Liberé
- 1st of the 7th stage (b)
5th of Tirreno-Adriatico
7th of the Round van Nederland
8th of International Critérium
9th of Ghent-Wevelgem
15th of the Tour of Flandres
27th of the World Championship

1985
1st of Coors Classic
- 1st of the 5th stage
2nd of the World Championship
2nd of the Tour of France
- 1st of the 21st stage
2nd of the Tour of the Basque Country
3rd of Giro d' Italia
4th of Paris-Roubaix
4th of Het Volk
4th of International Critérium
5th of the Tour of Valence
6th of the Mediterranean Tour
7th of the Tour of Flandres
7th of the G.P Eddy Merckx
17th of Liege-Bastogne-Liege
18th of Ghent-Wevelgem

1986
Winner of the Tour of France
- 1st of the 13th stage
1st in Lisieux
1st in Stiphout
2nd of Milan-San Remo
2nd of Coors Classic
- 1st of the 5th stage
3rd of the Tour of Switzerland
- 1st of the points score
3rd of Paris-Nice
3rd of International Critérium
4th of Giro d' Italia
- 1st of the 5th stage
4th of the Championship of Zurich
5th of the Flèche Wallonne
6th of the Tour of Valence
- 1st of the 4th stage
7th of the World Championship
11th of the Tour of Flandres
14th of Liege-Bastogne-Liege
19th of Ghent-Wevelgem

1987
19th of Het Volk

1988
2nd of the Tour of Americas
3rd of the G.P of the Release (chrono by teams)

1989
Champion of the World
Winner of the Tour of France
- 1st of the 5th stage
- 1st of the 19th stage
- 1st of the 21st stage
1st in Amiens
1st in Callac
1st in Linne
1st in Emmen
1st in Lèves
2nd of the Trophy of the Center
3rd of the Tour of Americas
4th of International Critérium
4th of the G.P of Americas
6th of Tirreno-Adriatico
7th of the Tour of the Mining Valleys
10th of the Tour of Philadelphia
17th of Het Volk
39th of Giro d' Italia

1990
Winner of the Tour of France
1st in Dijon
1st in Lombron
2nd of the Championship of Zurich
4th of the World Championship
10th of the Tour of Switzerland
- 6th of the 10th stage
105th of Giro d' Italia

1991
1st in Callac
7th of the Tour of France
12th of Dupont Tour
22nd of the Tour of Switzerland
Abandonment in Giro d' Italia

1992
1st of Dupont Tour
- 1st of the prologue
2nd of the Tour of Armorique
4th of the Tour of Switzerland
9th of Paris-Roubaix
11th of Critérium of Dauphiné Liberé
22nd of Milan-San Remo
Abandonment with the Tour of France (14th stage)

1993
13th the 3 days of the La Panne
25th of the Tour of Flandres

1994
8th of the G.P First Union

...and yet, can only look back at these results as a disappointment, given what might have been.





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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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Great summation carlson ... greg l deserves it all!

Fredly ... nice summation of the PAST. Now just a bitter no one cares EX.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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I love it. Every time Lemond opens his trap, I boil with anger at how he chased his own teammate, Boyer, down at the 1982 Worlds.

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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [dcsxtri10] [ In reply to ]
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Fredly is Lemond. LEMOND IS FREDLY!!

Just kidding dude
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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Woopee Fucking Do -

Greg has a right to say what he wants and so do people on this forum. It makes no difference if Greg is a better cyclist than everyone on this board. I'm so sick of people that say just because you haven't been there doesn't give you the right to comment on it. I guarantee that Greg could never beat me in a swim race in his best fucking day, so what?? Like I care??

I actually do respect Greg for what he has done but when he goes sputing off and comes of all holier than thou he sounds like a big asshole. People assume Greg didn't use any illegal drugs and he probably didn't but he has no proof he didn't use them either, thats the case with many of the current rumours and innuendo. I am pretty sure the 80's tours that Greg road in had a fair share of drug use during them its just that drug testing wasn't a big deal at the time.

Greg just looks more and more like a guy who can't get over the fact that someone surpassed him as better cyclist and has to either pump himself up to make him look good or drag down the other persons accomplishments.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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He's still an asshole. Anyone who spouts the crap he does, bashing any winning cyclist based on rumors and inuendo, deserves all the shit coming his way. Also, what the hell makes you sure he was clean? He's a bitter, fat, aging EX-cyclist. The pots was GREAT!

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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [dcsxtri10] [ In reply to ]
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"Fredly ... nice summation of the PAST.Now just a bitter no one cares EX"

Yup - probably true - the "no one cares" part, at least. I'm sure you are quite proud of that.



"It makes no difference if Greg is a better cyclist than everyone on this board. I'm so sick of people that say just because you haven't been there doesn't give you the right to comment on it..."

I don't see anybody saying anything of the sort, and I'm sure not. I suggest you find another windmill to tilt at...



"Anyone who spouts the crap he does, bashing any winning cyclist based on rumors and inuendo, deserves all the shit coming his way."

- it should go without saying that this is simply ridiculous hyperbole, and please note Lemond's current statements of support for Landis...



"I love it. Every time Lemond opens his trap, I boil with anger at how he chased his own teammate, Boyer, down at the 1982 Worlds"

- Yes, clearly we should judge Lemond's post-racing exploits in a harsh light relative to those of Jock Boyer (deep sigh...)



"Also, what the hell makes you sure he was clean?"

...I give up.







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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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I'm really, really tired of the Lemond bashing. Gee - I wonder why Greg is bitter?

Finally, someone with some common sense.

Greg is outspoken against drugs in cycling and he is hated for that by the athletes and even cycling fans because he speaks the truth. This is a classic example of people just wanting to believe that Greg is telling the truth and trying to clean up the sport.

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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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and imagine if you put all this negative energy to good use?
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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Hilarious. A great read. My Palmares looks a little better than Lemond's too.

Signed E.M.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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Greg had Mercx level talent, and was forced to watch (on more than one occasion) as the opportunity to excercise that talent was taken away from him.


Laugh out-freaking Loud! That is the funniest thing I have read all day. I was not watching cycling then, but from everything I have ever read about Merckx, his "talent" was in his mind and his work ethic. He rode more miles than anyone, raced hard all the time and took off on wild an crazy attacks that others simply would not consider. He took his profession very seriously and raced from the beginning to the season to the end.

LeMond probably had more physical talent than just about anyone, but he didn't always make good choices. In '85, he chose to join La Vie Clair; he chose to take lot of money; he chose to sit up and not ride with Stephen Roche or drop him and hammer to the top of Luz Ardiden. He chose not to reach out with both hands and take what he wanted.

Thanks to LeMond we have the attitude that "the Tour de France is all that matters" since before him most riders rode the whole season. Later in his career he moved to Minnesota and took up cross-country skiing. Huh? The man was paid a lot of money to ride a bike and chose to do other things.

So be it, but he needs to know when to shut up. He may not be a bitter old man, but he sure sounds like one. Had he remained healthy, made better choices and raced all those years, he might have won every tour; but nobody but nobody wants to hear him say it all the time.

Chad
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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ROFLMAO - Thank you for adding some humour to this!
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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"Laugh out-freaking Loud! That is the funniest thing I have read all day. I was not watching cycling then..."

Clearly.

"Thanks to LeMond we have the attitude that "the Tour de France is all that matters" since before him most riders rode the whole season."

Yeah, and LeMond sure didn't do that. Why, a rider who rode the whole season would probably, I don't know - maybe win the World Championship twice? Or how about finish Paris Roubaix in the top 10 a couple of times... maybe finish second at Milan San Remo? Gee - I wonder... who was the last rider (prior to Tom Boonen) to wear the Maillot Jaune while reigning world champion... *



"In '85, he chose to join La Vie Clair; he chose to take lot of money..."**

Money? How Evil! And, of course, Merckx never had any team controvery in his career...



"Later in his career he moved to Minnesota and took up cross-country skiing. Huh?"

... and twenty years later, Bjarne Riis is a genius for insisting his riders cross-train... Huh?



"Had he remained healthy, made better choices and raced all those years..."

Yup. Clearly, he should have chosen to avoid getting that shotgun blast in the chest. That's what Chuck Norris would have done...





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*Humourous mocking of your post aside, Lemond's 1986 season clearly reads as one of the single greatest complete seasons ever ridden by a professional cyclist. Lemond always received criticism as a rider who focused unduly on the TDF, but with the benefit of hindsight, it should be clear to even the most uninformed fan of the sport that this criticism was, and is, almost entirely without merit.

1986
Winner of the Tour of France
- 1st of the 13th stage
1st in Lisieux
1st in Stiphout
2nd of Milan-San Remo
2nd of Coors Classic
- 1st of the 5th stage
3rd of the Tour of Switzerland
- 1st of the points score
3rd of Paris-Nice
3rd of International Critérium
4th of Giro d' Italia
- 1st of the 5th stage
4th of the Championship of Zurich
5th of the Flèche Wallonne
6th of the Tour of Valence
- 1st of the 4th stage
7th of the World Championship
11th of the Tour of Flandres
14th of Liege-Bastogne-Liege
19th of Ghent-Wevelgem

** LeMonds decisions to "...take a lot of money..." were in large part responsible for the revolution in cycling wage structures and organization that transformed the ranks of Professional cycling at that time. He deserves nothing but credit for asking for, fighting for, and getting wages commensurate with his value to team and sponsor, and these benefits clearly accrued to all European professional cyclists, who owe him a debt of gratitude, much as American athletes do to Curtis Flood. If, as you contend, the quest for equitable pay did, in fact, hurt Lemond's career as a cyclist, the comparison to Flood is even more appropros.





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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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So here's Lemond's most recent public statements:

"If he is confirmed positive, I hope he has the courage to tell the truth," LeMond said in an interview with French weekly Le Journal du Dimanche released on Saturday. "He alone can change the face of the sport today. His example could be a symbol of change."

In a veiled reference to seven-time winner Lance Armstrong, long dogged by doping allegations, LeMond added: "I hope that (Landis) won't do what another American did: Deny, deny, deny."

I think much of the Lemond bashing is immature and misguided. However, the above just rubs me wrong. Since even Landis expects the B test to return positive, at what point will Lemond demand that he "tell the truth." It seems Lemond will make up his mind after the B test and is either ignorant as to what that really means or he's being disingenuous. And then there's the cheap shot at Armstrong. Sure, I know there's bad blood between the two of them, but Lemond needs to act a bit more diplomatic if he wants people to take him seriously. You really can't fault people too much for criticizing him as a whiner, as he feeds the fire.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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Rotflmao !!
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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Actually my speculation based on those results would be that Greg Lemond was a doper himself. I personally feel that Lemond used performance enhancing drugs himself. There was no way he should have been able to compete at such a high level after being shot and with his lungs still full of lead buck shot. Its like the little kid that tells everyone his friends are stealing when he himself is the one doing it. Greg Lemond sounds like a bitter old man that can't give up the dream. Hey Greg be happy with what you achieved and what you did its more than most people do in a lifetime, there is no need to drag other people down to make yourself look better which is what you seem to be trying to do when it comes to Armstrong. Greg was an incredible cyclist who should be respected but right now he just looks like a big asshole.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
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I would say that the "thinly-veiled reference" is aimed at Tyler Hamilton, not Lance. Lance never tested positive, so whatever Lemond thinks about him has little relevance to the possible outcome of the Landis case.

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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [HomerJSimpson] [ In reply to ]
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There was no way he should have been able to compete at such a high level after being shot and with his lungs still full of lead buck shot.

Why not??

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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [GeeForces] [ In reply to ]
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How does it do that?

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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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rode the whole season."

Yeah, and LeMond sure didn't do that. Why, a rider who rode the whole season would probably, I don't know - maybe win the World Championship twice?

You obviously know a little about Lemond’s career, so you should know that once he won the Tour in ’86 he practically disappeared from one-day racing. Except for one WC win in ’89, Lemond was never a force during the spring or fall classics after ’86. He never placed higher than 8th or 9th in any of the Big Five classics and those were both in Paris-Roubaix during G-D Lasalle’s two wins.



... and twenty years later, Bjarne Riis is a genius for insisting his riders cross-train... Huh?

Lemond himself later admitted that he had gained a lot of upper body weight that caused him a lot of issues in the spring/summer of '92. He was still very fit but just too heavy.

I never said that pushing for more money was bad. I totally agree that the things he did led to the betterment of rider salaries and he was always one to question the status quo. My point was that he accepted the money to go to La Vie Claire knowing that Bernard Hinault was clearly the team leader and 4-time tour winner. What did he think was going to happen as a foreigner on a French team with a French leader?

LeMond had a good year in ’86, but he was not even the best rider that year. That honor would go to Sean Kelly who won the Super Presige Pernod by 300 points over Lemond in 2nd place. He was a good example of somebody who raced from the beginning to end of the season and won eight of the big five classics over the course of eight years.



Chad
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [HomerJSimpson] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Actually my speculation based on those results would be that Greg Lemond was a doper himself. well i do not agree greg showed me during his career some things of other athlete´s that where in his team and said here i have to fight against those guys who use this and showed me bag full of doping of other team mate´s he always was fighting this also inside the team , and knowing his performance level on watts the shooting accident costing him a lot of his performance after the years you could say that going up and down in witch was not normal and something else was going on i know greg as a very hard doping fighter. cees .


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Last edited by: cees: Jul 30, 06 16:50
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [HomerJSimpson] [ In reply to ]
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HomerJ, you shouldn't say those things without iron clad proof. Slowman gets pissed.



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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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Nice post -- Lemond is now looking less like an angry little man and more like one of the few honest ex-pro cyclists out there.

Gee, shot and almost killed by a shotgun blast to the chest. Yawn! - I just ran a 5km with ITBS (sarcastic).

Regarding drugs, well, if they guy was right (and evidence is mounting that he WAS right -- one of the few non-dopers of his era), then he was right, period.

Regarding Lance... I've been holding out in favor of Mr. Seven Wins Straight a long time. Pre-C, most folks with a brain concur some substances may have been ingested... but post-C, I've always trumpeted the same thing everyone else did (100% dedication, loss of body fat, better team, etc.) and viewed Lemond as an irritating jealous little guy... but perhaps common sense (and Occam's Razor) is in Greg's favor:

If, as ALL evidence appears, nearly every pro Cyclist dopes.... then any Pro Cyclist who denies this is likely among the conspirators. "A small group of cheaters"... yeah, RIGHT!

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Last edited by: Glacier: Jul 31, 06 6:39
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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Haven't heard about LeMond in awhile, but Carlson's post here still makes me fall ont eh floor laughing! I admire Lemond's record, but if only he would SHUT UP!
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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first of all I am not out to bash Lemond but to claim that his 86 season was one of the best ever is simply incorrect he did not even win the super prestage that year and was beaten by some way by kelly both Mercex and Hinault had a number of better years as well as roche in 88 (Giro,TDF and the worlds) also Jalbert the year he won the tour of spain with seven stages on route with severil other major wins. He did achive alot for cycling including boasting pay and conditions for the riders. But the way he presents him self at the moment is that of a bitter old man.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [kiwitri] [ In reply to ]
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Sigh.....

The way Greg presents it or the way the press presents it on behalf of Greg? Big difference.

If you haven't met Greg in person, you wouldn't understand. It's the same reason why many folks think Lance is the cockiest A-hole that ever walked the planet. It's all marketing folks...look at who write the articles, who owns the companies/sponsors and who benefits from the press (good or bad).

If you HAVE met Greg and/or heard him speak...you'ld understand.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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great points. I think the first post may have been interpreted in a more light-hearted way but I see what you're saying.

Dan
www.aiatriathlon.com

http://www.aiatriathlon.com
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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Here, Here! It's a joke that people give Lemond crap for coming out against doping and dopers. He should be bitter. The generation that replaced him was the EPO generation. He witnessed plowhorses turn into stallions. He was an honest guy who saw it all happen.

I would be bitter as all get out if I were in his shoes.

-Marc
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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Fredly, great post. The man just gets limited to no respect today. Today's riders are riding the gravy train of Euro peleton success that Lemond had to break into first solo on French teams and then followed up with the assistance of team 7-11. He formed the template that ensuring TdF winners like Indurain and Lance used to win. That was by starting slower early in the season (less racing) and peaking for the TdF. I remember the year that Lemond won the Tour DuPont, thinking, "He just messed with his formula and is going to blow up in the Tour...". In the age of Merckx, everyone just hammered from Feb till Oct. That was fine then as everyone was partially trashed, with Eddy being the fastest of the trashed peleton. Now today, guys pick their game, be it one of the grand Tours, the spring classics, or the fall world cups.

Dev
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [HomerJSimpson] [ In reply to ]
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"Greg was an incredible cyclist who should be respected but right now he just looks like a big asshole. "

When did you see him ?
When I met him recently he didn't seem or look like a big asshole. A really nice guy, no chip on his shoulder, not bitter or jealous in the least. What he said made sense. It may not be 100% right but it wasn't an outrageous leap of logic either.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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Certainly Greg was very focused on a very limited number of races in the year, but he is and probably will be for a long time, the last Tour de France winner willing to put his season on the line and be a contender at Paris-Roubaix. Anybody have that photo of him after Paris-roubaix, sitting in the dressing room covered in mud eating a piece of bread? It won a world press photo award I believe, best cycling photo ever.

I like Greg, he reminds me of John McEnroe. misunderstood, but usually right.


Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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This one






------------------------------------------------------------
Searching for the bliss of ultimate exertion.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [callidus] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, that's the one. Thanks,


Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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i know nothing about the Lemond-bashing...but DAMN that's some funny sh*t right there!!! LOL.....



blood, sweat...and big gears

I hated every minute of training, but I said, ''Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.''
- Muhammad Ali
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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I'm with you 100% on this fredly.

LeMond is a courageous man with the candor to speak his mind. Like everyone sometimes his comments are more expdient than diplomatic, but he says what he thinks and thinks what he says. He is also responsible for building the foundation upon which Armstrong acheived his success. Had it not been for LeMond, it is less likely Armstrong may have enjoyed the success and notoriety he earned.

LeMond is a iconic contributor to U.S. and world cycling history and the history of sport.

Bottom line: There will always and forever only be one First American to win the Tour de France, and win it well: Greg LeMond.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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I just found my Palmares and it's magnificent!

Still find the original post well written and VERY entertaining!
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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From Velonews:


"Day two of the Floyd Landis hearing brought further clarification as to who each side may call to testify before the arbitration panel during the upcoming week. Most of the potential witnesses come from the scientific world, but there are a few names more familiar to cycling fans.
Among them is Greg LeMond, the first American to win the Tour de France, and a vocal critic of doping in cycling. LeMond won the Tour title in 1986, and then two more times in 1989 and '90. He was listed on the USADA side of the ledger, one spot above former pro cyclist Joe Papp."


Looks like lemond is going to do some Landis bashing.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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Too many run on sentances, clean it up next time.

tfun~
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
"I love it. Every time Lemond opens his trap, I boil with anger at how he chased his own teammate, Boyer, down at the 1982 Worlds"

- Yes, clearly we should judge Lemond's post-racing exploits in a harsh light relative to those of Jock Boyer (deep sigh...)

Nice comeback. :-)

FWIW, I met Lemond earlier this year (I actually met him/raced against him in the late 1970s, but those encounters were brief), and he didn't strike me as bitter at all. Rather, he struck me as simply someone who has always been willing to share his thoughts, and didn't really care what others thought of him as a result. So, when people bring up the topic of doping, or whether he could have won more Tours, he just says what he believes to be true, no more and no less.
Last edited by: Andrew Coggan: May 17, 07 10:17
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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"Also, what the hell makes you sure he was clean?"

Well, I don't suppose the fact that EPO didn't exist prior to '88 and was unattainable before '89 has nothing to do with this.

It seems pretty understandable that the guy who blazed the trail for Americans in cycling would be just a bit annoyed by the current state of the sport.

Remember, LeMond won Tours both before and after he died!!

Jimmy Archer
Pro Triathlete/Coach/Freelance Writer
http://www.jimmyarcher.com
http://www.dirttri.com
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [tetsuoni] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I love it. Every time Lemond opens his trap, I boil with anger at how he chased his own teammate, Boyer, down at the 1982 Worlds.


Too bad Lemond didnt use a truck....
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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[reply]Certainly Greg was very focused on a very limited number of races in the year, but he is and probably will be for a long time, the last Tour de France winner willing to put his season on the line and be a contender at Paris-Roubaix. Anybody have that photo of him after Paris-roubaix, sitting in the dressing room covered in mud eating a piece of bread? It won a world press photo award I believe, best cycling photo ever.

I like Greg, he reminds me of John McEnroe. misunderstood, but usually right.[/reply]

that's a great post right there.

in this era of 'controlling the message' , people like Greg are a dying breed.


_______________________________________________________________

"the trouble with normal is - it always gets worse"

- Cockburn
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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yeah, this is ridiculous and flawed. I am guessing a lance era inspired fan thread here given that, if you were into cycling in the 80's, you are informed and you knew who the inspiration for the current US cycling presence was. who cares what he says now. he's rich and won tours. you haven't. getting caught up in gossip like 5th grade hopskotch is cute though. in 1991, lemond was a already suffering the ill effects of lead poisening from the pellets lodged in his heart which could not be removed. any clue what I am referring to? him winning 85-91' goes without saying... hey, did you hear that lemond scratched his knee running from 4 square to the monkey bars! dead serious dood. you should go tell jimmy on the swingset...



All you need is a dollar and a dream..and a severe f*&%ing beating!!
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [callidus] [ In reply to ]
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Where did you find this photo? I've looked an cannot. This is truly what the end recult of racing, not riding, should feel like. Awesome photo.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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lol!

IS Greg Lemond the inverse of Tom Demerly? - Greg went from Fine Cyclist TO Fat Kid....

-----------------------------------------------
www.true-motion.com Triathlete Casual Wear since 2007
(Twitter/FB)
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [t2k] [ In reply to ]
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Seems Lance has put a few pounds on too. Just says to me that these folks starved themselves to be the way they were.
Lots of sports seem to do the same thing. Boy am I lucky to be a skinny guy and can eat anything I want.

Dave

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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this deserves a bump...TDFTLSHW...lol
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [Flanagan] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
this deserves a bump...TDFTLSHW...lol
Well played, Sir...

"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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I'm really, really tired of the Lemond bashing. Gee - I wonder why Greg is bitter?

I completely agree.

First it's LeMond and now it's Contador. The lack of respect for other riders to protect their hallowed Lance is a disgrace.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [FJB] [ In reply to ]
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Well, it seems that the Lance communication machine is doing its job very effectively...Just like the past 6 months, sending mixed signals about Contador, and play with his head...Looks like it didn't bother AC one bit.

Before that, it was to do as if everyone accusing him of cheating was a nuts, a liar, a bitter angry person, and each time everyone bought the propaganda...sigh...
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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Bravo!
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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I am interested in this: If you were ever on top of your profession that He was,had his accomplishments, how would you feel of someone of your status slamming you on the internet? Would you think it fair? Would you laugh at them because they just did not understand the nuances of being inside? Can you argue his position from the same amount of experiance, or did you just sleep at a Holiday Inn last night?
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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I'm going to do my annual bump of this thread...
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [Flanagan] [ In reply to ]
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Ok. I'll bite.

"Broken News: Greg Lemond"

There. fixed it for you.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [FatandSlow] [ In reply to ]
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"This brings the total number of Tours de France That Lemond Should Have Won (TDFTLSHW) to 167."

Yes, but Lance has been working on beating that record of late. ;)

-----
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
Which is probably why I was registering 59.67mi as I rolled into T2.

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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Gerard: "I like Greg, he reminds me of John McEnroe. misunderstood, but usually right."


In Reply To:
Dr. Coggan: "FWIW, I met Lemond earlier this year (I actually met him/raced against him in the late 1970s, but those encounters were brief), and he didn't strike me as bitter at all. Rather, he struck me as simply someone who has always been willing to share his thoughts, and didn't really care what others thought of him as a result."


I would not have dredged up this thread, but I agree with these quoted thoughts from years back. LeMond has always (since '86 when I started racing and following the sport) struck me as being a bit tone deaf to how others might perceive what he is saying and perhaps he comes across as whiney, but when someone asks him a question, the answer is unvarnished.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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Greg.....is that you? Isn't it time for a snack fat boy?! I believe Greg is mostly upset that no one told him to drop his caloric intake from 7K to 1,500K once he got off the bike.
Last edited by: climbcarolina: Jul 27, 10 15:39
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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Lemond have said some very strange stuff over the years but that doesn´t mean that´s he´s wrong or/and lying.

It´s quite funny to see how people bash GL for being outspoken and then bashing Landis for keeping his mouth shut. Maybe Landis pick up how whistleblowers in cycling are treated, both by people in the sport but also by people in general...
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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Hope you didn't waste too much of your time writing that. I didn't waste much of mine ready beyond the first paragraph.

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! đŸ˜‚ '' Murphy's Law
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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So choice.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [carlson] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for that clear and concise explanation of the facts.
Until now, I have been under the misunderstanding that Greg Lemond was just a self centred arrogant jerk, but now I realize he IS justified in his claims and this gives him the credibility He so rightly deserves!

With 167 wins to Lances paltry 7 wins, maybe NOW he will get the adoration and adulation he so rightly deserves.

If Greg didn't get distracted by having to spend all his time explaining his greatness to us all, then I'm sure he would have cured cancer by now (rather than letting that second string Armstrong guy get all the glory) and would be hard as work getting World Peace sorted for all time!

Greg Lemond for President, hell, Greg Lemond for GOD


NOT!!

(LOL of course)

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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fredly wrote:


There is no one on this site who woke up one morning and realized that they could well have within themselves the talent and ability to be the single greatest professional cyclist in history.

No one here was forced to follow that thought up with the realization that despite winning (on multiple occasions,) both the TDF and the World Championships, they would never be able to fulfill their potential due entirely to circumstances beyond their control.


Would not being gifted the genes and physical potential to "[wake] up one morning and realize that they could well have within themselves the talent and ability to be the single greatest professional cyclist in history" count as "never be[ing] able to fulfill their potential due entirely to circumstances beyond their control"? If so do I have the right to bitch about not winning more Tours?
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [pianoplayer] [ In reply to ]
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hilarious

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [pianoplayer] [ In reply to ]
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Haha this is awesome

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Tri Training Articles
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [tridork] [ In reply to ]
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tridork wrote:
Thanks for that clear and concise explanation of the facts.
Until now, I have been under the misunderstanding that Greg Lemond was just a self centred arrogant jerk, but now I realize he IS justified in his claims and this gives him the credibility He so rightly deserves!

With 167 wins to Lances paltry 7 wins, maybe NOW he will get the adoration and adulation he so rightly deserves.

If Greg didn't get distracted by having to spend all his time explaining his greatness to us all, then I'm sure he would have cured cancer by now (rather than letting that second string Armstrong guy get all the glory) and would be hard as work getting World Peace sorted for all time!

Greg Lemond for President, hell, Greg Lemond for GOD


NOT!!

(LOL of course)

WHOA!!! WHOA! Whoa! It's one way or the other. You can't believe Lemond won 167 AND Armstrong won 7--those 7 are included in Greg's total.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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totally asinine.

I'm really, really tired of the Lemond bashing. Gee - I wonder why Greg is bitter?



x 2



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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [FJB] [ In reply to ]
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Honestly I didn't know much about Greg Lamond other than reading his wiki a few months back and some videos I saw when I was younger. I figured he was the first American Tour Du France winner and he won it a couple times. BUt reading through this thread motivated me to do more research and I gotta say, you guys have made me like the guy a lot. Like somebody said, every sport has their McEnroe and he is usually right.


"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [theforge] [ In reply to ]
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you guys have made me like the guy a lot. Like somebody said, every sport has their McEnroe and he is usually right.


Most people have a lot of respect for LeMond and what he accomplished. Those who continually attack him are usually Lance supporters who for some strange reason ( :) ) seem to have trouble accepting that LeMond was opposed to PED's.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [FJB] [ In reply to ]
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FJB wrote:
totally asinine.

I'm really, really tired of the Lemond bashing. Gee - I wonder why Greg is bitter?



x 2



x3

LeMond is a big reason why I got interested in cycling. Yes, his comments may not be cool at the time, and can sound self-interested, but it is undeniable that while he was trying to figure out why his face form was failing, and guys he used to drop were dropping him, the real reason was everyone else was doped to the gills.

How many of you wouldn't be bitter if you were beaten out of a win/promotion/raise/recognition/etc/etc and found out later everyone else was cheating. People whine on this board daily about crap that doesn't matter yet bash Greg because he got cheated? Don't get it.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [FisH2O] [ In reply to ]
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I just think people tend to hate brutally honest people in general. People hate criticms and people love their heros. Somebody like Lemond forces fans to examine the darkness under the covers. We all want to think Lance Armstrong can have cancer and comeback to win one of the toughest endurance races in the world a record number of times. Just like we wanted to believe that Berry Bonds went from a skinny above average player to a jacked homerun king. To listen to it let alone admit it means you are a fool for believing in them to begin with. I for one think ALL top level athletes dope, but I also don't think doping makes champions. Instead it levels the playing field at the top level. Like Arnold said when he admitted using steroids. It was legal then and if he didn't use it, he would have lost to somebody who did. By banning it, all we've managed to do is create some bizarre arms race (pun intended) where newer undetectible PEDs are developed and used until they are detected. The real losers are the kids who are going to use them anyways, but they don't have the access. So they end up injecting bovine or equine steroids from foreign countries.


"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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Fantastic post fredly, I couldn't agree more. I am absolutely mystified that people would bash Lemond for basically being someone who refused to back down in the face of immoral conduct. Isn't that what we all should be teaching our children to do?
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [superphil] [ In reply to ]
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Absolutely not, because look what happens. You get villified and become an outcast for not fitting in. Is that the kind of life you want your kids to live?


"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Carlson. I'm a fan of Greg, and it always hurts to see people bash him (maybe it's deserved-he brought it on himself). I'm a big Lance fan, too but I secretly hope that Lance comes clean so Greg is proven correct.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [tetsuoni] [ In reply to ]
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With the benefit of hindsight, we know Boyer is a pedophile (his defense at his trial was the twelve year old girl seduced him), so I am freaking glad Lemond did that.

http://www.meganslaw.ca.gov/cgi/prosoma.dll?searchby=offender&id=18603072H7196
Last edited by: SWoo: Dec 28, 11 17:40
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [urbanlumberjack] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, I can't believe no one has realized that you resurrected this. Good show sir.


Michael J. Pelechaty
Brewer, Black Box Brewing Co.

"Yeah, I was depressed for a little while, but then I remembered how awesome I am."
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [FisH2O] [ In reply to ]
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How many of you wouldn't be bitter if you were beaten out of a win/promotion/raise/recognition/etc/etc and found out later everyone else was cheating. People whine on this board daily about crap that doesn't matter yet bash Greg because he got cheated? Don't get it.
___________

I was a LeMond fan many years ago .... but it has been difficult watching him turn into a bitter old man who gets his only attention by making unsubstantiated negative claims against others.

You imply that he was beaten by steroid abusers and he was clean .... really????? ....you believe he was a leader in the sport and really knew nothing about what others were doing .... and you know for a fact that he was clean himself?????
I think all we really know is that he indeed got beat by everyone .... and told us that he had a muscle disease problem at the time. I think you give him WAY too much credit.

Dave
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [dcsxtri10] [ In reply to ]
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dcsxtri10 wrote:
I believe Lance was drug free and no evidence exists to the contrary. People can believe what they want ... the facts speak for themselves.
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...i?post=925163#925163


dcsxtri10 wrote:
Lance will win with certainty. My only concern would be if Chuck Norris took up cycling this year ... then he would of course be the favorite. Otherwise a coast to the yellow jersey for Lance. What a breath of fresh air ... this years TDF was boring in large part.
Dave
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...post=1981701#1981701

Well, well..
Another Lance apologist bashing Greg.
Jeez...
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [dcsxtri10] [ In reply to ]
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dcsxtri10 wrote:
.. I think you give him WAY too much credit.

Dave

http://stevetilford.com/?p=11375#more-11375
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [Nicko] [ In reply to ]
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I read through most of the above about Lemond and have a serious question I've had for a long time. What was the reason Lemond testified against Landis? He did not seem to have any connection to the case yet he had a lot to say. So what was the point of his testimony? Why was it allowed in court? Thanks in advance.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [dcsxtri10] [ In reply to ]
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dcsxtri10 wrote:
How many of you wouldn't be bitter if you were beaten out of a win/promotion/raise/recognition/etc/etc and found out later everyone else was cheating. People whine on this board daily about crap that doesn't matter yet bash Greg because he got cheated? Don't get it.
___________

I was a LeMond fan many years ago .... but it has been difficult watching him turn into a bitter old man who gets his only attention by making unsubstantiated negative claims against others.

You imply that he was beaten by steroid abusers and he was clean .... really????? ....you believe he was a leader in the sport and really knew nothing about what others were doing .... and you know for a fact that he was clean himself?????
I think all we really know is that he indeed got beat by everyone .... and told us that he had a muscle disease problem at the time. I think you give him WAY too much credit.

Dave

Well put. Now look at the results from the 89 Giro and then few weeks later he wins the tour

All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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Great post.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [pianoplayer] [ In reply to ]
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This person starts at the onion first of the year. With an expose on powercranksy

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [dcsxtri10] [ In reply to ]
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dcsxtri10 wrote:
How many of you wouldn't be bitter if you were beaten out of a win/promotion/raise/recognition/etc/etc and found out later everyone else was cheating. People whine on this board daily about crap that doesn't matter yet bash Greg because he got cheated? Don't get it.
___________

I was a LeMond fan many years ago .... but it has been difficult watching him turn into a bitter old man who gets his only attention by making unsubstantiated negative claims against others.

You imply that he was beaten by steroid abusers and he was clean .... really????? ....you believe he was a leader in the sport and really knew nothing about what others were doing .... and you know for a fact that he was clean himself?????
I think all we really know is that he indeed got beat by everyone .... and told us that he had a muscle disease problem at the time. I think you give him WAY too much credit.

Dave
Funny thing is, nobody who knows him says that Lemond is bitter... just an honest guy who isn't afraid to spit in the soup.
You are spewing the LA propaganda. I am amazed that there are still people believing the myth.

Lemond knew what was going on in the sport. He left PDM because of his drug stance.

Given Armstrong's smearing of him, don't you think Lance would have found someone to come forward & say that Lemond was dirty?
Has anyone come forward? Ex team mates? Managers? Rivals?
With what LA had/has on offer, don't you think someone would have taken the $$$ & come forward?
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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bigskinny wrote:
I read through most of the above about Lemond and have a serious question I've had for a long time. What was the reason Lemond testified against Landis? He did not seem to have any connection to the case yet he had a lot to say. So what was the point of his testimony? Why was it allowed in court? Thanks in advance.

Does anyone know why Lemond was a part of the Landis case? What involvement did he have with Landis that made him able to testify against Landis?
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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bigskinny wrote:
bigskinny wrote:
I read through most of the above about Lemond and have a serious question I've had for a long time. What was the reason Lemond testified against Landis? He did not seem to have any connection to the case yet he had a lot to say. So what was the point of his testimony? Why was it allowed in court? Thanks in advance.


Does anyone know why Lemond was a part of the Landis case? What involvement did he have with Landis that made him able to testify against Landis?

IIRC, he had reached out to Landis and encouraged him to come clean. They had several conversations during that time frame, about drug use and other topics. During one of them, Lemond revealed to Flandis that he (Lemond) had been sexually abused as a child. He allegedly did this in an attempt to gain Flandis' trust and get him to admit the truth.

Flandis and his cohorts later threatened to reveal Lemond's secret.

lemond was called as a witness because of these conversations.

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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks. So landis told Lemond he used drugs and that is why we was in court.

I still do not know why Lemond got involved at all. By this time he was done with cycling and should have stayed out of it. If Landis had gone to Lemond it would have been different. It seems like sour grapes on Lemonds part wanting to prove Landis was guilty, by the way I am gland Landis was found guilty. Since Lemond had no involvement he should have stayed clear of the mess.
Last edited by: bigskinny: Dec 30, 11 7:34
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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I don't remember if Flandis confided in Lemond or not. But those conversations were the reason Lemond was subpoenaed.
.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [Cheddar] [ In reply to ]
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Cheddar wrote:
Wow, I can't believe no one has realized that you resurrected this. Good show sir.

It's part of the conspiracy theory, LeMond is taking over Cervelo.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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I still do not know why Lemond got involved at all.

Because no one was talking about him anymore.

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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [squid] [ In reply to ]
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squid wrote:
I still do not know why Lemond got involved at all.

Because no one was talking about him anymore.

Agree.

Poor old man.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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LEGEND.

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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Too bad none of you actually know Lemond. He's a great guy, and actually quite unassuming for somebody who's won it all. Not many superstars stay out of the limelight as much as he has.


Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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gerard wrote:
Too bad none of you actually know Lemond. He's a great guy, and actually quite unassuming for somebody who's won it all. Not many superstars stay out of the limelight as much as he has.

If he is so great and unassuming why did he not keep his nose out of the Lance and Landis garbage? Its because he wanted the lime light and wanted those that we're celibrating the tour victories of Lance and Landis to know he too won the tour. He should have stayed outside the issues and remained a great winner of the past. However by his actions to those of us that did or do not know him he became a big ass, instead of the great champion he once was.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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You're wondering why Lemond got involved in the Landis and Armstrong cases? Maybe because he cares about cycling? Maybe he knew more than people on this forum and had something to say about it? And maybe because it was offensive to him how those two behaved? He's certainly not the only pro cyclist to be offended by the mess created by some of their colleagues.

You're saying he should just have kept quiet, just like most riders with inside knowledge did, but I for one applaud those who are willing to speak out even if it costs them their popularity with forum posters. I know it is popular to frame his statements about Lance as Lemond being jealous, but who came up with that concept?

Anyway, that might be a reason why he spoke out on the Landis and Armstrong cases, to warn people long ago about what we now know to be true. I'm not sure why people berate him for that, he deserves a monument (together with Paul Kimmage and a few others) for being willing to speak the truth when most others aren't. Because it's the silence of those that allows the few brave ones to be cast aside as bitter losers, which in turn makes the mess continue much longer than it has to. Don't you feel betrayed about the last 20 years in cycling? I do, although luckily I never raised any kids to worship pro athletes or anything like that.


Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not saying Landis and Lance were clean, are clean, are dirty, or whatever. All I'm saying is that if Lemond was not a part of or did not have actually first hand knowledge of what Landis or Lance did or did not do then he really should not have had anything to say about it in public. It all seems like second hand bitter information. Yes great he was doing it for the greater good of cycling which is awesome. He however seems to have done as much if not more damage then good. It was like he was trying to take cycling down.

The way Lemond took on Lance in public was not for the greater good of cycling. There is no way one can say it was. There were much better ways that should have been handled.
Last edited by: bigskinny: Dec 30, 11 13:01
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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How did LeMond "Take On" Lance?


When it was made public that Armstrong using the sports most notorious doping doctor most who have followed the sport reacted negativity. Greg voiced what most in the sport felt, he said


Quote:
When Lance won the prologue to the 1999 Tour I was close to tears, but when I heard he was working with Michele Ferrari I was devastated. In the light of Lance's relationship with Ferrari, I just don't want to comment on this year's Tour. This is not sour grapes. I'm disappointed in Lance, that's all it is



Armstrong's response was to hire a PR firm (Public Strategies) to smear Greg. He told a dinner table full of people he was going to call John Burke (CEO of Trek) and kill Greg's bike line. He called Greg and threatened him, said he would find people who would say that Greg doped. Lance and Johan then approached multiple former LeMond teammates and staff and offered them cash, up to $300,000, if they would claim Greg doped. None of them took the offer.


It is disturbing the extent that Armstrong went to smear Greg and ruin his business. That there are still a few uninformed people out there who falsely believe that Greg "Went after" Lance shows that it partially worked




Last edited by: surftel: Dec 30, 11 13:58
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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Well if you do not have first hand knowledge of the facts on Lemond, then your are guilty of everything in your post yourself. .....You say things like "if" and "seems" .............However, I think you have a right to state your opinion, and so does Mr. Lemond, the difference is in cycling Mr. Lemond has mucho credibility.There is much he knows that we do not I suppose......So far in hindsight, especially with this thread so old and the Novitsky investigation that he is correct on..........just like when the truth of epo came out years after he retired.....That was the time epo hit full stride. He was right then so I choose to believe his credibility now
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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bigskinny wrote:
It all seems like second hand bitter information.

LeMond has never come across to journalists as a terribly likeable guy.

bigskinny wrote:
He however seems to have done as much if not more damage then good.

That's because a lot of people are stupid and swallowed the LA fairy tale hook, line, and sinker. I thought LA was clean for a while myself early in his TdF victories, but Greg's speaking out on the topic was what first opened my eyes. No matter how likeable you find LeMond, he's always been a straight shooter.

bigskinny wrote:
It was like he was trying to take cycling down.

Straight from the LA script

bigskinny wrote:
There were much better ways that should have been handled.

How? Be specific.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [JollyRogers] [ In reply to ]
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I'm sorry to have spoken negatively about the great LeMond, also sorry I was spelling his name wrong. I guess he seems like a wonder individual, if you personally know him, I do not however so have to judge him from what I know so to me he still appears to be an ass.

Kenney - yes I do not have first hand knowledge so should no longer talk on this subject I'm guilty as charged, sorry, after I address my critics I'm done and will forever keep my thoughts on this subject to myself, truly thanks for pointing out my errors.

JollyRogers - "How? Be specific." I have no idea but all that was done in the press at the time felt wrong. Out of this there were no winners. LeMond to many appears to be bitter jaded ex-cyclist, cycling as a sport was drug thought the coals by the major sports networks more then normal and lost even more credibility even though the major sports had plenty of doping issues of their but only cycling was talked about as having doping problems, the owners of LeMond bikes now have a non-existent "tarnished" brand, and the hero (right or wrong) to many cancer survivors and a great fund rasier for the cause was called out as a doper.

surftel - The nice LeMond quote called Lance out as doing drugs, it was public, how was Lance suppose to react? If his reaction as you state it is right it was harsh. However the relationship between LeMond and Trek was not the best at the time and was going to fail with or without Lances help.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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Nice spin, but like most of your posts it is wrong

Greg did not "Call Out" Lance for doing drugs. He expressed his disappoint that Lance was working with Ferrari.....something most in the sport felt.


Perhaps you are new to the sport? LeMond bikes were doing very well. Sales had increased every year. They sponsored Pro Teams (Saturn, Mercury) and were Trek's best designed line. When Lance threw a fit like the petulant child Trek chose to screw Greg to keep him happy. Burke even admitted this as he forced Greg to write his absurd letter.


Suddenly requests by potential distributors in Europe were ignored. Despite 7 years left on the agreement Trek told dealers they were winding down the brand. Going as far as not having a single LeMond bike at Trek World. In the end it cost Trek big and Lance now has to keep his yap shut about Greg.


Google the term tortious interference, Greg has a slam dunk case against Lance. Trek was not the only business of Greg's he interfered with, he also called Tim Blixseth often and even tried to get Greg's partners at LeMond Fitness to sell out to him.


Armstrong has shown again and again he is obsessed with Greg.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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You Americans really don't have a clue what you've had in LeMond. He is probably the greatest cyclist of the last 25 years and maybe even all time. To come from where he did into Europe's doping culture, stay clean and still win the tour three times was just amazing. If the blood boosters had not come into the sport he probably would have continued to beat guys on the older drugs for several more years while remaining clean. Hail Lance all you want but he's built his success on a house of paper cards which is probably going to come crashing down. Only a few who really know the ins and outs of cycling know the real US legend in cycling is LeMond. More kudos to him for not remaining quiet and trying to do his bit to fix the culture of his sport.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [avagoyamug] [ In reply to ]
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avagoyamug wrote:
You Americans really don't have a clue what you've had in LeMond.

Because none of the folks defending LeMond in this thread are Americans?

Folks who know cycling have a clue. Those in the LA cult of personality are clueless.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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bigskinny wrote:

JollyRogers - "How? Be specific." I have no idea but all that was done in the press at the time felt wrong.

You're the one who said that there were "much better ways". If that was true, it shouldn't be hard for you to come up with at least one much better way. Sometimes there are no good ways.

Place the blame where it belongs - on the person doing something wrong, not the person speaking out about it.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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Let's see, you're glad he was found guilty, but you wish witnesses didn't testify against him.

He made an admission to Lemond. Lemond was a witness to that. He was subpoenaed to testify,though i doubt a subpoena was required.

Landis's people didn't threaten to out the fact of the abuse, they tried to make him think the abuser would be there, or some such thing that was pretty disgusting.

I sometimes wonder about Lemond, when he seems to ramble semi-coherently in different video clips etc. But I wonder more about the people who claim to have wanted, or want cleaner cycling then resent the whistleblower.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [climbslow] [ In reply to ]
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Lemond had it tough first off jimmy carter and his great foreign policy screwed him out of the Olypmics in 1980. The press did not like the brash american and could not understand why he wanted to go back to the states during the season. He did not trust his own team mates and why should he when they lied to him..."I will be riding for Greg next year". So I can understand his "bitterness".

But now look at his performance at the 1989 Giro d' Italia. He routinely got dropped on the climbs and finished 39th overall, yet six weeks later rode one of the greatest Tours ever finishing with the greatest Time Trial of all time. Oh yea just he did this just over two short years after getting shot in the back and having shotgun pellets in his myocardium.

I feel bad for Greg, he did more my US Cycling and the sport that brought us to Slowtwitch than anyone but....

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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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How do we know he was drug free? If someone today pulled that off what would people say ? Did cyclist take drugs in his era , yes . Did Lance dope ,prove it did Lemond ride clean ,prove it. I hope neither did but I will never defend one and condemn the other.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [dennis] [ In reply to ]
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Still, the point has been made many times that there is qualitative difference between the older "doping" and the EPO era.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [climbslow] [ In reply to ]
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Now that was funny. It made me laught. Thanks. " yea he might have cheated but he didn't take the good stuff"
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [dennis] [ In reply to ]
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The circumstantial evidence against Lance, the investigations, the alliances, all his former riders busted, his aquaintances..ect..ect......is nothing remotely compared to Lemond. The Giro in 89 is the only inconsistancy that I know so an anomoly. You say prove it that Lance was dirty........Are you friggen kidding me. ......Yet it has been tried to prove Lemond doped and there is NO evidence in anything approching Lance..........Sad that someone 20 years ago you lump in with Lnace because he can't prove himself clean.......................Let me guess, you did not follow cycling until the last 10 years
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
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Kenney wrote:
Let me guess, you did not follow cycling until the last 10 years

We like to call these people the 99'ers.

;-)

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"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [dennis] [ In reply to ]
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dennis wrote:
Now that was funny. It made me laught. Thanks. " yea he might have cheated but he didn't take the good stuff"

Well you are laughing at your own private little joke as you've misunderstood what was being said. Heehaw indeed.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [Billabong] [ In reply to ]
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I hear that about the 89 Giro all the time on here. Lets take a look.
I know it said, or he said it was iron deficiency and he received shots.........but is it logical He needed to dope for the tour? He could of been sick and building his form. This example always seems an anomoly.....is this consistant with his career? At the time, and in the future was there a pattern where his competitors alluded to this?....No.........Yes horrible Giro,,,sandbagging too? peaking only for the tour since coming back? Sure possible. Out of form and sick, sure possible. Now lets look at the Tour that he came back.
He certainly did not dominate the 89 tour......................Remeber this year, Voekler rode out of his skin and had a shot till the end, he certainly was not the bst but when racing close you cna push a lot harder and go deeper, No?
Pedro won the Vuelta 7 weeks before and Fignon won the Giro less than a month before. Greg was fresh. Though Pedro lost almost 3 in stage one for not showing up on time and over 4 in stage 2 ttt, he finished 3rd 3+ back...........Fignon was 51sec ahead at stage 2, so they raced head to head the whole tour. No dominance. If anything Pedro was stronger catching back up. Lemond was hanging on to a guy that just won a grand tour less than 4 weeks before and was out ridden by a guy that won a grand tour 7 weeks before..............They were by no means fresh, where if it was sickness for Lemond he was fresh, and not beating anyone.
The fastest TT. Pedro was to far back, and yes it was fabulous what Lemond did. With equipment he gained some seconds.......Fignon double disc lost him some seconds..Als do not forget, Fignon was battling with some terrible saddle sores and was in serious pain. ............So do I think that the Giro result is any kind off proof, with no consistancy or pattern before or after......No......That was an incredible TdF, but Lemond did not control that race.....I have no reason that it was not simply courageous from a man with the proven talent combined with some unfortunate luck for Delgado and Fignon........
You may disagree, and I am fine with that........Cheers
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [Billabong] [ In reply to ]
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To add............The tactics of that race started different due to his Giro performance........If he would dope for that win, it would be consistant that he would dope in the 90's......Unlike Lance in his comeback, he was a proven dominate stage racer.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [Rambler] [ In reply to ]
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At firsrt I laughed.......I know he is not but, Lemond bikes were pretty innovative. The "spine" design. His first carbon was on of the first assymetrical carbon frames.......great bikes
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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Your welcome.......Just stated the hipocrasiy of your comments, so I have a right to post too....but if you know what to take your ball and go home.OK. Do not know how to post anymore eloquently than Gerard....Owner of a pro team, top level of cycling for awhile, in contact with team leader and winners of that era. So regardless ofmy own opinions, his stands out a lot greater than mine. But discount his with out presenting any correct facts....OK........Lemond has used his postion to break the silence and speek about doping.......He cost him a lot $'s including his bike line, which although Lance went after him, it did not work, why, because Lemond told the truth. ..........
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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I do not think Lemond is a tarnished brand.....................again, where to come off with that idea.........................TO:hero (right or wrong) to many cancer survivors and a great fund rasier for the cause was called out as a doper
So he should get a pass because he has used an organization as a cover and to fund his lawyers......Wow. If he did not, then its a tragedy, think people now know better nad the Novitsky case is not over yet. If proven by Novitsky, publicly he should be punished even more for the reasons you cited
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [dennis] [ In reply to ]
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dennis wrote:
How do we know he was drug free?

If LeMond did dope, it would be pretty easy for someone to call him out as a hypocrite and discredit Lemond's anti-doping stance. I'm sure that's something that the dopers would love to have happen - another critic discredited.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [dennis] [ In reply to ]
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You've missed the point. Shall I make it in larger type?
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
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I was not taking my toys and going home. I'm not a great speaker and are a worse writer so did not get my thoughts put down correctly. It was not worth continuing the discussion and taking more lumps with facts I do not have.

I am not new to cycling and remember LeMond's wins, I however do not know cycling insiders or read into it much so do not have some of the facts some on here have or think they have.

I do know everyone I knew who owned a LeMond bike sold it after he started coming off sounding half cocked, right or wrong, so that is where the "tarnished" brand comment came from.

And I do not have facts but do wonder as many on here do too as to how LeMond could win while competing against dopers. It is one of the many questions I have that I hope I get answers to before I die, like who shot JFK, did OJ do it, what happened in Roswell, what is in the hanger in Ohio, what is the real story of Lance, what is the real story of Contador (sp?), what wheel set is really the best, what bike is the most aero, are shorter cranks really better, is a coach worth the money, should I buy a power meter even though I do not follow my heart rate monitor correctly, should I have turned down my first Kona slot, will my house ever sell, will Iran get a nuke, will Iseral blow Iran off the face of the earth, why did Tiger cheat, will Tiger get his mojo back, will there ever be an undefeated NFL team, why does the NBA exist, will tri ever hit the main stream, will the WTC kill Kona, will a P5 make me faster, etc.... just to name a few.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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Ok. You want to debate with Gerard, yet he is in the top of the industry......Doping of others that he beat, are you comparing what Delgado was caught with equal to EPO?.........but to this
I do know everyone I knew who owned a LeMond bike sold it after he started coming off sounding half cocked, right or wrong,
Wow, everyone you know who owned a Lemond sold thier bikes, I respected your posts till that point, How many? I knwo many people that owned Lemond's over the years and never heard that. Never. Known many people get pissed at bike companies, don't know any that went out and sold their bikes..None, ever. I must be living in some strange bubble.
If you have been following cycling for over 20yrs, Know multiple people that have owned Lemond bikes...............................but you did not know how to spell his name
.
.
Edit......let me guess. they all bought Trek's
Last edited by: Kenney: Dec 31, 11 14:43
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
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Dude you're an internet bully, you win I said that a few posts ago, congratulations. I was just explaining my thoughts that you asked about, not to say I was correct.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [avagoyamug] [ In reply to ]
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avagoyamug wrote:
You Americans really don't have a clue what you've had in LeMond. He is probably the greatest cyclist of the last 25 years and maybe even all time. To come from where he did into Europe's doping culture, stay clean and still win the tour three times was just amazing. If the blood boosters had not come into the sport he probably would have continued to beat guys on the older drugs for several more years while remaining clean. Hail Lance all you want but he's built his success on a house of paper cards which is probably going to come crashing down. Only a few who really know the ins and outs of cycling know the real US legend in cycling is LeMond. More kudos to him for not remaining quiet and trying to do his bit to fix the culture of his sport.

not to mention the two rainbow jerseys he won and the fact that he raced and did well in the Monuments that were not particularly suited to him (4th in Paris Roubaix and 2nd in MSR).
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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You talked shit about someone. Made untrue statements and were called out on it.......................So I am a bully, YEAH!!! Least I am not anonymous
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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So you have a Fred friend who bought into the smear campaign and that proves what? You are welcome to pretend that the "Story of Lance" has not been told but you would have to have been living in a cave to not know the answer already.


It is funny to see people start with the "LeMond doped" stuff, even though, unlike Armstrong, there is zero evidence. Always the same, LeMond doped because well, he just had to have doped, no evidence but yeah he definitely doped.

People seem to ignore the people in the know like Laurent Fignon who said it was possible to win clean in the 80s even though he doped himself.

Like Willy Voet who said there were clean top riders like Charly Mottet despite naming countless people who did dope.

Like Paul Koechli, who ran a clean team in Helvetia/La Suiise without any needles and said LeMond won the Tour clean. Before people say that was because he was his manager, Koechli never said Hinault won the tour clean and he was his manager too. Bernard Tapie, owner of the team said the only guys he knew that definitely didnt dope were LeMond and Bauer, not Hinault, not Bernard.

Like Peter Winnen who says it was possible to win clean in the 80s but everything changed with EPO.



Or Alexi Grewal, who often said Lance was a doper but said one guy he knew was clean was LeMond--he said the guy could stay out till 3am and "be out the door at 30mph," that his recovery was spectacular. That he was a once-in-a-lifetime talent.

These posters are not just refuting other posters, they are refuting guys from that period who were involved in cycling, people who have said they doped themselves or that doping was present.

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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [surftel] [ In reply to ]
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Speakning of Grewal......what happened to his comeback?.......Now you made me want to find my Red Zinger series tapes!!
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
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Kenney wrote:
Speakning of Grewal......what happened to his comeback?.......Now you made me want to find my Red Zinger series tapes!!

he gave it up....could not find any sponsorship.

Velonews had an article on it a few weeks ago.

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"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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The last 20 years? How about cheating since the beginning of time. I guess all we can do is keep trying. About Lemond all you guys have convinced me. Most/many of the champions before and after him used what they could to win, but Lemond was clean and that almost impossible TT was a.........miracle. I hope Greg and Lance raced clean.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [dennis] [ In reply to ]
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Why a miracle....He had gear and wonderful performance,...Fignon wrong gear and hurt...Saddle sores so bad that he said he could not sit.........And as for speed, tailwind with downhill......................So why the "I HOPE Lemond was clean".......Lots of evidence surounding Lance......show me about Lemond......Still got to put a dig on the guy don't you
.......Why put that hope statement like Lemond and Lance are in the same as being clean................You need a lot of hope for that statement about Lance,,,,,,but not much for Lemond
Last edited by: Kenney: Jan 1, 12 11:21
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [dennis] [ In reply to ]
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dennis wrote:
but Lemond was clean and that almost impossible TT was a.........miracle. .

It (the TT) was slightly downhill, not terribly long, and with a tailwind. Additionally none of Lemond's closest competiors used aero bars and Fignon didn't use an aero helmet.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [dennis] [ In reply to ]
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Greg's TT was hardly a miracle. 410 watts for 21 minutes. Nothing special when you compare to Armstrong or Ullrich 495 watts for close to 40 minutes
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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I still do not know why Lemond got involved at all. By this time he was done with cycling and should have stayed out of it.

Why would you stay out of it if your goal is to clean up cycling? The veil of secrecy from retired cyclists is one of the main problems in trying to stop the abuse.

It seems like sour grapes on Lemonds part wanting to prove Landis was guilty....


Your kidding right?

Doesn't anyone else get tired of the "sour grapes" or "he's just jealous" defense?
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [FJB] [ In reply to ]
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Lemond is a very interesting guy. A few years ago a guy who he originally hired to write a biography wrote about the experience. He said Greg was one of the most direct honest guys he's ever known. Not that he is always right but just that Lemond has no internal censor. If a reporter asks him if LA used drugs, he'll answer. Consequently he is a great interview and his directness has hurt his reputation.

Everyone hates when athletes give pat answers, but when they speak their honest opinions they get skewered.

Styrrell
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [styrrell] [ In reply to ]
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I've always liked him for the exact same reasons and it is frustrating to me when people simply say he has 'sour grapes' when he talks about drugs in sport. The guy is a multiple TDF champion so I really don't get why he would have sour grapes.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [surftel] [ In reply to ]
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do you happen to know who posted those figures? I don't see a SRM in the picture below

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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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We know the speed and the distance, so if we guess at exact elevation, and accept rumors about the wind, then estimate his weight, and read tea leaves about his CdA, we then just have to google the Crr and voila we can sorta figure what his power might have been if we aren't totally wrong. Its really quite simple.

Styrrell
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [styrrell] [ In reply to ]
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The 1989 TT was short (15 miles), wind at his back most of the course. 300 foot loss in altitude. LeMond's time was not that spectacular, he only beat Thierry Marie by 33 seconds that day, and Thierry was not even using areo bars


A far more example of a questionable TT performance would be Armstrong's TT that was over twice as long, over multiple climbs, yet averaged only .5kph slower.
Last edited by: surftel: Jan 1, 12 17:46
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [surftel] [ In reply to ]
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I never said I thought Lemonds TT was the best ever, just joking about the supposed knowledge of the watts he put out if he didn't use a pm.

Styrrell
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
do you happen to know who posted those figures? I don't see a SRM in the picture below


That Bottecchia is STILL one of my all-time favorite bikes...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [styrrell] [ In reply to ]
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LEGEND


more awesomeness here

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CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
echappist wrote:
do you happen to know who posted those figures? I don't see a SRM in the picture below



That Bottecchia is STILL one of my all-time favorite bikes...

I still have (and use) that crank and used that bullhorn bar until earlier this year!

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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
echappist wrote:
do you happen to know who posted those figures? I don't see a SRM in the picture below



That Bottecchia is STILL one of my all-time favorite bikes...


I still have (and use) that crank and used that bullhorn bar until earlier this year!

There was a Faggin TT bike on eBay which looks alot like LeMond's Bottecchia. That Mavic crank was one of the smoothest I've ever used. I loved it. I also saw some Mavic bullhorns and aerobar on eBay as well. The Mavic aerobars were some of the nicest I've used also.

_______________________________________________
Triple Threat Triathlon
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [uli] [ In reply to ]
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Nice pics........The one of Lemond can be a poster.........This one, hard man
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [bigskinny] [ In reply to ]
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     I'll balk at the idea of Lemond frames being "discredited". Picked up a used Lemond Versailles frameset, and built it up with Dura Ace 7800, for one of the finest riding bikes I've ever owned, and I've had lots in my 31 yrs of riding. The Triomphe carbon frame not only had huge amounts of engineering, as someone previously mentioned, but came with a slacker geometry that Greg preferred, and I think the 72.5 degree seat angle on my 57cm is key in the ride of this bike. Beautiful paint as well. Actually would like to see Lemond as the driving force in another bike line, if he still has it in him.

http://www.archive.org/...ond#page/n1/mode/2up

http://www.bikepedia.com/...ersailles-Double.jpg
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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Have the Victoire.....yellow/black D/A.......That and my Klein are my favorites.......Throw my 89 Pinarello Prologo in there to, but thats because of the C-Record ;)
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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Another thing I like about that bike, He was not afraid of geometry that did not follow everyone else.....by having a longer headtube. That with the slack seat tube and really carves well going down the passes here in Montana
Last edited by: Kenney: Jan 1, 12 19:29
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
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    Yeah, I noted that longer headtubes are all the rage now, and you're right on the geo, that's why I mentioned the 72.5 ST angle...a rarity in my size-range.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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Except for the S5, you meant the short headtubes right?/.....Either way, great bikes. Thanks for posting..................mines a 61
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [pianoplayer] [ In reply to ]
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Bump
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [Flanagan] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for bumping this thread. I was unaware of it, and it's great.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
echappist wrote:
do you happen to know who posted those figures? I don't see a SRM in the picture below



That Bottecchia is STILL one of my all-time favorite bikes...

I still have a bright lime-green and red Botecchia jersey I bought in Sicily in 1985. Occasionally I break it out for a local ride, but no one remembers that brand I guess. Loved those bikes. Among us ex-pats stationed there who rode, we all lusted for Bottechia and Vitus frames. The leather strap "death pedals" brings back a few memories as well.




Live long and surf!
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [pianoplayer] [ In reply to ]
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finally some justice to lance

long live Greg, a true american hero.
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [Giant Steps] [ In reply to ]
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SWEET!......I have a late 80's reynols to go with my prologo......but it is just not as sharp as that
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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Why is he given a free pass on doping? The sport was dirty before, during, and after him, so why is his success above suspicion when guilt by association is enough to convict everyone else in the court of public opinion?
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Re: Breaking News: Greg Lemond [dwc] [ In reply to ]
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dwc wrote:
Why is he given a free pass on doping? The sport was dirty before, during, and after him, so why is his success above suspicion when guilt by association is enough to convict everyone else in the court of public opinion?

Because he has said so and we know only Lance lies.

..

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