Man, Trump rings the bell and BK and Duffy run to the cause....

With Trump's balls in their mouth, they didn't have to run far.

#MAGA

---

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

There is no form of protest acceptable to those who are comfortable the way things are.

Were those meant for Duffy?

They are meant for any of the people upset by these protests.

BTW, Dallas players knelt before the anthem yesterday then stood up for the anthem. Still the boos rained down.

So maybe, just maybe, people aren't really upset about the "disrespect" to the anthem and military after all.

But that's what they tell themselves to make it feel more acceptable.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Why does everyone keep saying Trumpo is the motivation here?

What did I miss?

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I’m not upset by the protest I just think their methods are chicken shit. Oh, and the whole thing is based on lies.

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

So what's acceptable then? Lighting themselves on fire seems a little extreme. What other methods would you suggest?

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

True at all times and for all issues and for every single person here.

Acceptable? That’s not even on my mind. Who cares what’s acceptable?

And I’ve already suggested a method.

They should light themselves on fire.

That would be fucking awesome.

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

On national TV. I bet it would be censored though. :o(

I’m sure someone would catch it their phone and post it to World Star! World Star!

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

What is it that they are uncomfortable with to the point of protesting?

Back in my eco-terrorist days of protesting we had specific grievances and definable goals.

What are those here?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Clearly you do. You said their methods are chicken shit.

So what's acceptable to you?

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

It’s perfectly acceptable to me for them to do their chicken shit kneeling.

I would enjoy it more and I’d definitely tune in come game day if they lit themselves on fire.

And can someone please tell me why trail said my opinion here originated with Trump? I must have missed the memo. Did he suggest self emolation?

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Because when you post anything he disagrees with, it must be because you are a Trump supporter. Trump made statements against the players kneeling. You did too so therefore you are supporting Trump.

Oh. I was unaware of Trump’s statements. I don’t use Twitter.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I tried to use twitter. Specifically to follow Trump. (I sometimes didn't believe reports about his tweets were true. They invariably are.)

It's an unusable platform.

---

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Ass hole post of the year. Congrats.

---

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

On this we can definitely agree. I'm over 50 so I guess I just don't get it.

---

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

Coming from you that’s a compliment.

Also asshole is one word.

Also, I can’t believe that you all are taking this thread seriously.

Haha.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

He didn't say it on Twitter.

I call BS on that story. Your's holds up worse than the guy from the Steelers.

Or it is possible you are spouting off on something you know nothing about. But you never do that.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Yeah, as I was typing that, I realized there are 19 trillion people who use twitter, so not technically unusable. I might just be old. But it's seriously not user friendly. The layout sucks. Not sure how they managed to make 140 character missives hard to follow, but they did.

---

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

So what did he say?

I’m spouting off my n what I saw that was posted here.

I don’t twitter of Facebook, don’t have cable, and I stopped listening to talk radio.

I seriously have no idea what trump said about this.

Did he suggest players light themselves on fire?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I tried Twitter.. It usualy just ends up being a huge add fest of thing retweeted and annoyed me. Kind of like on FB but cant figure out why I am not annoyed by that on FB...

He said the NFL owners should fire those son of a bitches that wont stand for the anthem. Then spouted off on how the NFL ratings have dropped becasue of it. Just usual food to from Trump to give the media something to be outraged about.

So nothing about players lighting themselves on fire?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

No. Sorry to disappoint.

I think I hate it because it does what all media is good at and that is taking a brief statement and removing all context.

---

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

If only you had a device nearby that you could access to view the news and recent events.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I’ve tuned out for the most part.

On purpose.

Willful ignorance, if you will.

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

There has to meme out there of the NFL players kneeling before Trump.

Seems like they are doing a fine job at protesting since you can't seem to keep it off your mind.

They are doing something less than a minute long in a 3+ hour event. Something that usually isn't even shown on TV because nobody even cares cares to watch. Yet, you just can't take your eyes off it.

Or maybe, just maybe, they're not stupid and they know this whole thing originated around the gesture of showing disrespect.

 The 1st Amendment does not and never will apply to private employers. Also, the NFL owners have prohibited all kinds of expression.

Last year the Dallas Cowboys were prohibited from honoring murdered cops with police decals.

Avery Williams wanted to wear a patch that said “never forget” to honor 9/11 but the NFL would not let him to wear it.

How in the world was it possible for the NFL to let Colin Kaepernick begin this protest is beyond reason? Unless the NFL is just bias to a progressive agenda.

According to NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy. There is a game operations manual it is distributed by the league to all of its member teams and it says:



Another NFL spokesman, Joe Lockhart, said during a conference call with reporterson Sept. 25 that "there will be no discipline handed down this week." He added, "We also believe our players have a right to express themselves."


Which contradicts the manual and past history! Of course this is FUBAR this went fom a protest built on by a lie, to now a protest over a stupid tweet. What will the next left leaning agenda to protest the National Anthem be?

I haven’t watched a football game since last year’s super bowl.

Also, i have no idea what it is these guys are protesting.

Can anyone explain it?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

They are protesting the racial divide.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Oh. Well then I’m on their side. I don’t like racial division.

I’ll take a knee at my job.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Don't really care. I never watch the anthem like 99.9% of people watching on TV. My biggest concern is getting a cold one from the fridge.

But the complainers are doing a fine job of bringing attention to whatever they are protesting I think. Otherwise it would have been almost completely ignored by now.

But the complainers are doing a fine job of bringing attention to whatever they are protesting I think.

lol. Do you really think so?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

In JSA's fantasy you are on both knees.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Yes, because if we didn't have the asshat complainers, nobody would even know there was a protest at all.

This x1000

"I don't grasp the problem, so it must not be real. Therefore, anyone protesting must be wrong/stupid/whining/etc. It's the only answer that makes sense."

x2.

9 separate posts about the NFL, kneeling etc on the first page.

Like a monk on fire?

Hey look folks, Duffy just wants more people to use gasoline. Government approved gasoline.

What are they protesting and metric is being used to determine the success of the protest?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Its good for niche stuff but that's about it. I used to use it a lot but now its mostly for very specific things, mostly for work. There's a ton of repetition on there and a ton of idiocy.

I remember when it was good for cycling and sports personalities but now most of the personalities have dried up or use it for merchandising spam, like Sherman.

Flags. They are protesting flags. Similar to how Rosa Parks was protesting public transportation.

You didn’t just compare NFL players in 2017 to Rosa Parks, did you?

Please tell me this is sarcasm.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Lemmie frame this in the form of a SAT question:

NFL Players are to Rosa Parks

like

Donald Trump is to Presidential

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Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's

In my mind “presidential” is an act.

It’s fake.

Say what you will about Trump, but his lack of presidentiality is refreshing.

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I don't get it. Who the f--k cares if they kneel or not. I know people lost their lives defending the flag, but they were also defending the rights of people to not stand. It's not a pick and choose situation. The right cries when they're not allowed to speak at college campuses but then say a silent protest shouldn't happen. I guess it's the usual, everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too.

FTR- I've always hated Trump. Hated him when he was a Democrat, hate him now as a Republican. Growing up in and around NYC he's always been a self-centered POS who has no interest in anyone except himself and possibly his family (possibly). He could care less about this country unless it hurts him.

Agreed. It's awesome that we're finally making real progress toward getting the President Camacho we all want and need.

I do and I don’t. If I were to watch a football game I’d rather not have a bunch political causes being thrown in the mix.

Television and movies have been infected with politics, I dumped Facebook, stopped listening to terrestrial radio (for the most part), and now I can’t even turn on the fucking NFL without some ignorant dip shit protesting something they don’t even have the slightest clue about.

But sure, if you want to kneel during a song go right ahead. Suck a dick during the anthem, I don’t care. Just don’t ask me to watch and don’t call me a racist if I see your cause for what it is - bullshit.


I agree that this is hypocritical, but is there really anyone on “the right” who wants to shut down this protest (I know Trump suggested firings). You are aware that antifa and other leftist have committed numerous acts of violence for express purpose of shutting down the free exchange of ideas? Where is the violence on the right rioting in football stadium parking lots?


Thanks for clearing that up. I’ve never actually met the man so I don’t have quite as strong as an opinion on him that you do. Were you guys neighbors or something. What did he do to you?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

People have suggested that “The Rock” should run....

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

It'll be refreshing to bring class and respectibility back to the office

---

Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's

And steroids.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Tattooed millionaires and a vainglorious Chief Executive. Not a good combination. If those NFLers think they'll get the Orange-Haired Wonder to back off his rant they obviously haven't been following him the last couple years. It's nuts.

---

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

You're thinking of Kid Rock - Duffy was talking about Dwayne Johnson.

Either way, it can only be an improvement

---

Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's

I tried Twitter.. It usualy just ends up being a huge add fest of thing retweeted and annoyed me. Kind of like on FB but cant figure out why I am not annoyed by that on FB...

I tried Twitter once and gave up, it sucks. The reason FB doesn't bother me is because I can see golden retriever puppy videos. No one can't get tired of that.

St. Peter In Prison
Rembrandt Harmenszoon van Rijn




If you're going to take a knee, have a good reason.

---

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Dude, the original intent is to insult Americans by disrespecting their flag. Colin Kaepernick was very explicit about his motivations and his feelings. You get brownie points for disregarding insults not by having them go over your head.

I'm not going to speak for them, but I can tell you what I believe is going on.

What are they protesting? - systemic racial inequality

What metric is being used to determine the success of the protest? - When your head hits the pillow, did you stand up (or kneel) for what you believe is right?

The Stoning Of St. Stephen
Rembrandt Harmenszoon van Rijn

"Saint Stephen was one of the first ordained deacons of the Church. He was also the first Christian martyr. The Greek word from which we derive the English word martyr literally means witness. In that sense, every Christian is called to bear witness to Jesus Christ, in both their words and their actions. Not all are asked to shed their blood.

Those who do shed their blood for the faith are the greatest of witnesses. They have been especially honored since the very beginning of Christianity. Stephen was so conformed to Jesus in his holy life that his martyrdom was both a natural and supernatural sign of his love for the Lord. It also inspired the early believers as they faced the first round of brutal persecution."


This is how sacrifice for one's beliefs has commonly been evidenced throughout much of history, including down in Birmingham, Alabama during the civil rights protests of the 1960s. Those folks were putting their lives on the line, and some of them in fact paid with their lives.

Collecting a fat paycheck that makes you a One-Percenter and a tattooed millionaire and playing the game you love while being worshiped by legions of fans is not sacrifice. It's more like self-serving arrogance and hypocrisy and more of a fad -- similar to that silly ice bucket challenge a couple years ago -- than anything else.

---

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

In other words, made up bullshit.

Can’t give any specific examples so just say it’s “systemic”.

This is under the same system that put a black man in the whitehouse for 2 terms.

This is under the same system that is the most free and diverse on the planet.


Wow, what a bunch of crap.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Look at what you wrote. "I have no idea what it is these guys are protesting. But... I know for sure it's bullshit."

This has been your argument for countless discussions. "I don't understand it, therefore my opinion of it must be superior."

I’m responding to what you said they were protesting (systemic racism) and I was calling that bullshit.

And I was responding to your pillow comment as a load of crap.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

No, both of your quotes were pulled from the conversation yesterday. I wrote that response this morning. You were not responding to my post.

"Systemic racial inequality" is pretty much a non-falsifiable claim these days, in my opinion. Easy to say, hard to disprove, because some of it is tied up in "feelings." Plus, it absolves entire minority communities of any responsibility for group circumstances in which they may find themselves. Using the phrase, in other words, can be both a Get Out of Jail Free card as well as an "It's not my fault" immunization.

In many ways, it's like that term "microaggressions." That concept leads me to deliver an expression on my face that amounts to "WTF?" ;-)

---

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

So what are they protesting?

Police murdering blacks? Killing them at higher rates than whites?

We know that those assertions are not true.

So what is it now? Systemic racism?

Sorry, I don’t believe in ghosts.

The “protest”, which they have every right to do (imagine that, a bunch of black guys in a racist country are making millions of dollars and protesting against the very country, the only country that allows them this platform), is based on what? What? Other than complete bullshit what is it based on.

And when do we know they got what they want? How do we know?

Is that even possible?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I've given you specific examples in the past, but I'll do it again here. Here's one article, found after a 10-second Google search. The highlights include:

1. Black Americans are more likely to have their cars searched.
2. Black Americans are more likely to be arrested for drug use.
3. Black Americans are more likely to be jailed while awaiting trial.
4. Black Americans are more likely to be offered a plea deal that includes prison time.
5. Black Americans may be excluded from juries because of their race.
6. Black Americans are more likely to serve longer sentences than white Americans for the same offense.
7. Black Americans are more likely to be disenfranchised because of a felony conviction.
8. Black Americans are more likely to have their probation revoked.

Don't just read the headlines. Go read what they mean in the article. Read the supporting data. Don't just dismiss it because it doesn't fit with what you want to believe.

One man’s “non-falsifiable” is another man’s “bullshit.” I put it in the same category as belief in ghosts. I disagree. “Microaggression” is a Newspeak term that turns the meaning of a word on its head. “Agression” is an overt act, a purposeful attack. “Microaggresion” by definition isn’t an agression at all.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I am absolutely fine with you providing the data that backs up your claims.

Oh boy...

I don’t have time to go through point by point of a one sided Slate article.

I will say this though, all your points are related to people who commit crimes. If I believed the criminal justice system was biased against blond haired, blue eyed people I’d be sure not to be a criminal.

If you want to believe in ghosts, go ahead.

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I thought you were bald?

So you want me to prove that there are no ghosts?

BK was right, non-falsifiable claims....

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Balding.

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Wait, you say "The problem doesn't exist."

I give you data that says that it does.

You say you don't have time to look at the data.

Therefore... the problem must not exist?

Okay. But to be fair, you can't really espouse a position if your response to data that contradicts it is - "Whatever. I don't want to educate myself."

Uh, no. I've given you data that says there is inherent racism in our justice system.

You have not offered any response to that.

So I asked you to show data that the justice system is fair.

Your response to that is - "That's impossible."

So, if I understand you right, you're saying your opinion that there is no racism in the justice system is based on data that's "impossible" to produce, and that data that shows there is racism in the justice system takes too long to debunk.

At least you've made it clear how you've reached your opinions.

1. Does this take into account cultural differences in how black people interact with police when pulled over (see Chris Rock).

2. I don’t think anyone should be arrested for drug use but I can tell you anecdotally from my experience of working (very often) in largely black neighborhoods of South Los Angeles that people in these neighborhoods make almost zero effort to hide their drug use.

3. Economics

4. Economics (public defenders are more likely to make deals)

5. OJ Simpson was acquitted by a mostly black jury.

6. “Same offense” doesn’t mean same circumstances. Also economics.

7. Get convicted of a felony and you can’t vote. That goes for all races.

8. What were the reasons for revoked probation? A probation violation. Don’t do that.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Outstanding! Now we can actually have a discussion. I have a pair of meetings coming up, so it'll take me a little while to respond, but in the meantime I applaud your actually looking at this instead of dismissing it out of hand.

And the offer still stands. If I'm wrong about systemic racism, I want to know it. I'm happy to read whatever data you have to back up your claim.

Knock yourself out.

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Black Americans are more likely to have their cars searched.
Black Americans are more likely to be arrested for drug use.
Black Americans are more likely to be jailed while awaiting trial.
Black Americans are more likely to be offered a plea deal that includes prison time.
Black Americans may be excluded from juries because of their race.
Black Americans are more likely to serve longer sentences than white Americans for the same offense.
Black Americans are more likely to be disenfranchised because of a felony conviction.
Black Americans are more likely to have their probation revoked.

Those can be meaningless without context.

For example, if black Americans are more likely to have their probation revoked, did they violate their probation more than non-blacks? Or maybe they are more likely to be jailed while awaiting trial because they are more at risk of repeating crimes? Or maybe they get longer sentences for the same offense because they have a longer history of crime? Maybe their plea deals include prison time because they commit more serious crimes?

I have no idea if any of that is true but I do know how misleading statistics can be.

1. Just looking at some background data for the first question:

The source article from the Washington Post sums up with:

Quote:

"Black drivers are 31 percent more likely to be pulled over than whites; they are more than twice as likely to be subject to police searches as white drivers; and they are nearly twice as likely to not be given any reason for the traffic stop, period."

From an LA Times article about a study Stanford did to try to correct for the way a person might behave after being pulled over:

Quote:

For every 100 black drivers, about 15 were pulled over, compared with 10 stops for every 100 white and Latino driver. Black drivers in the county were searched six times per 100 stops; the rate for Latinos was four searches per 100 stops and for whites, two searches per 100 stops.

But researchers noted such disparities alone do not automatically indicate racial bias, but rather could reflect differences in driving behavior and other factors.

So the Stanford group sought to refine their analysis with a test that seeks to answer the question: What level of suspicion must an officer have to search and how does this threshold of suspicion relate to the race or ethnicity of the driver?
...
"When we applied the threshold test to our traffic stop data, we find police require less suspicion to search black and Hispanic drivers than whites. This double standard is evidence of discrimination," the findings noted.

The Seattle Times ran an article about stops in Missouri:

Quote:

New data released Wednesday show black drivers in Missouri were 75 percent more likely than whites to be pulled over last year, the highest level since the state began compiling data on traffic stops 17 years ago.
...
Other statewide findings for Missouri show blacks, Hispanics and American Indians were more likely to be searched, but contraband was less likely to be found during searches. The report says the higher search rate might be in part attributed to the higher arrest rates among those populations, which lead to searches even if no contraband is suspected.

This just after a quick Google search. Is it ironclad proof of systemic racism? No. There's a lot that goes into the data and some of it is open to interpretation. However, this is a response to just the first point on the list, and there are seven more points that are strongly suggesting the same conclusion. I'll keep chasing down the data on the rest of the points (you could, too).

Why were they pulled over?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Really? You can't even click on the links I provided? I have to do that for you, too?

ETA: Image won't seem to upload. It's in the Wash Post article, broken down by race and type of stop.

You might be right about inherent racism. But the truth is when you go to crime scene after crime scene and you see nothing but a certain color then your judgement conforms to these experiences.
This is just human nature. I know most crimes are committed by males ages 15 - 25 and if I see a group of this demo. and if they are dressed like thugs I watch them carefully.
You can't expect cops to ignore stats and experience. When this has been done you get the Ferguson effect and crime rises quickly.

As for the justice system being unfair. I know most cases are built on by individual circumstances. If a judge sees a long rap sheet of offenses and he sees you as a threat to society, you are more likely to do time.

Maybe this is how it is suppose to work. If you can't clean up your certain demographic (this being right or wrong) we are going to be extra hard on you, to pressure your group to clean up their act.
So the thought being- Instead of constantly complaining about how you are being treated, work on yourself and clean up your act so you are no longer a target of the justice system.

The black community is doing way more damage to itself with the high crime and homicide victims than how the justice system treats its criminals.

You should look at the judges too, not just the outcomes.

a PA study showed Black judges are harsher against whites and blacks. Another study in LA where they looked at criminals who had pleaded guilty and were similar ages showed black judges were harsher with blacks and whites were harsher with whites.

Are we going to call the black judges racists who are being harsher on blacks?

What does that have to do with the protest? They're not protesting their own poor lot in life, but for the community from which they came. They could be zillionaires and it wouldn't, and shouldn't, matter a bit. It's a red herring to point to their personal situations and dismiss them as illegitimate message bearers, since the message is the entire point of the protest. They're using the highest platform available to them, which only makes sense if you're invested in the protest. I mean, this is pretty obvious stuff, here.

Keep in mind that I'm not speaking in defense of the protest whatsoever, just keeping the discussion on points that actually matter.


That fad actually raised a shit ton of money for ALS research, which appears to be paying dividends.

Are you doing that Yahey reverse trolling thing, arguing for one side by pretending to argue against it with points that prove the opposite true? ;)

---

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Looks like native Americans are the ones who should be kneeling.

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Wait, did you just suggest that because you're black, you have an obligation to change the behavior of other black people so the police won't be racist toward them?

Maybe they are, but they don't occupy a venue where millions of people can witness it.

A clear sign that the NFL is racist. Numbers don’t lie.

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

???

There’s hardly any native Americans in the nfl. This is obviously because of systemic racism against native Americans by the league.

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Why try to be cute about it?

Any response to the info I gave you on point #1?

Yeah, why are native Americans treated so poorly?

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

The data would suggest systemic racism in the judicial system, for the same reasons black people are treated so poorly.

Do you have a response to the data? You've said no systemic racism exists and challenged me to provide data.

I've provided data, and have backed it up (not exhaustively, but legitimately).

Are you saying that perhaps systemic racism does exist, despite your personal experience? Or do you find fault with the data?

It is not as simple as being black and I think you know this.

When I was in my twenties had long hair and hung out with the boys in the wrong places late at night we were talked to constantly by the cops. The cops told many times that what we were doing was drawing their attention. They would ask if we would take it somewhere else. We did. I am sure if we mouthed off, like so many idiots do. There would of been a problem.

Cops are looking for trouble, even I understood this in my twenties. If you want to skate through life, you understand this. Or you can stay angry and challenge them, and be a fool like on a Chris Rock skit.

I just realized I’m dealing with a person who’s incapable of dynamic thinking.

Enjoy your day.

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Maybe this is how it is suppose to work. If you can't clean up your certain demographic (this being right or wrong) we are going to be extra hard on you, to pressure your group to clean up their act.
So the thought being- Instead of constantly complaining about how you are being treated, work on yourself and clean up your act so you are no longer a target of the justice system.

Wait, did you just suggest that because you're black, you have an obligation to change the behavior of other black people so the police won't be racist toward them?

You seem to be looking pretty hard to find something to attack.

It seems that his point is to stop looking for others to blame.

That's a great story. You seemed to imply that cops may be racist, but that's because black people commit more crimes, therefore it's natural for the cops to be racist. But rather than suggesting the cops should not be racist, you've suggested that it's the duty of a person who shares characteristics of the people the cops are racist against to change the behavior of other people who share that characteristic, so the cops will stop being racist to that person. Am I reading that wrong?

No. He is simply implying don't act like an asshole and the Police will generally leave you alone.

Usually when you're backed into a corner, you throw an explicative out before you bail.

You said there's no such thing as systemic racism.

I gave you ample data that there very likely is.

You haven't even attempted to address that data. You tried to divert into calling the NFL racist.

I'm honestly willing to have my mind changed, but not by you insisting "it's bullshit," but by using actual data. Show me it's fair, or show me the holes in the data I've presented.

Or change your position.

That's not actually what he said. He said the cops are racist because most crimes are committed by people of color, and that if people of color want the cops to not be racist, then people of color need to stop committing so many crimes.

But that simply puts the onus of stopping the racism of the police onto the people of color. So if you're a perfectly law-abiding black man, and experience racism from the police, Cereal is suggesting that it's your fault for not changing the behavior of people you may not know or associate with, just because you and they share the same skin color.

Here let me requote that for you and you tell me where he said cops are racists.


And now I'll end with what you were looking for from Duffy.. Your fucking stupid.

Be careful. You’re painting yourself into a 3D corner.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

orphious wrote:

And now I'll end with what you were looking for from Duffy.. Your fucking stupid.

Quote:

You might be right about inherent racism. But the truth is when you go to crime scene after crime scene and you see nothing but a certain color then your judgement conforms to these experiences.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, GetCereal is saying that sure, when you see many crimes committed by people of a certain color, then you start to associate the crimes and the color.



The only way I can see to interpret this, is that if a person of color doesn't like the way the police is treating him, then perhaps it's his responsibility to improve the people who share his demographic.

Am I reading that wrong?

Soooo.. you are against personal responsibility for people of color.. Got it.

Absolutely not. If you're acting suspiciously, then you should expect to attract the attention of the police. If you don't want to attract the attention of the police, then shape up.

What I'm against is that idea that being a person of color means you are automatically more suspicious because other people of color acted suspiciously - and the onus is on you to change their behavior.

As is everyone on this forum (I hope). What Cereal is saying, is while wrong, its just not people of color who are profiled as he tried to show with his example of having long hair and being a certain age. He is saying there is certain things you should not do if you do not want Police attention. If you do something to attract that attention, expect to get it. Be responsible for your own actions instead of blaming racist Police.

I'm with you. Obey the law, don't be an idiot, and respect police authority. GetCereal said that, and I agree with him/her 100%.

What I took issue with was the suggestion that if an individual doesn't like how he is treated by the police, who have seen many people of his color commit crimes and therefore have a certain "judgment" about them - then maybe it's that person's responsibility to change the way people of his color interact with police.

And here is maybe where the communication broke down:


I read the "you" in this section as singular, when perhaps GetCereal meant it in the plural. If so, it suggests that the community needs to clean up its act, rather than an individual. (It still leaves the issue of putting the onus of alleviating racism on the group experiencing the racism rather than the group enacting the racism, but that's a separate point).

Sorry busy at work but...

If you use my personal example. We were in our twenties and we fit a certain demo. (more likely to cause trouble) cops are sizing us up (with every nuance) by their experiences in the field. So I guess you can say the cops were judging us by our age, gender and how we looked, but being upset by this gets me nowhere. It's not just a black thing, if we were a hand-full of older black ladies looking like we just left church. The cops would've driven right by without a care.

It is human nature, we all judge by experience, if you don't like how you are being judge work on it. I try hard not to do anything that will draw cops attention because some cops are assholes. I guess we could all take a knee and protest cops unfair treatment of young males. Or we can try to work on ourselves so the cops have no need to harass us.

I found an article that digs into the stats a bit...

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/451466/police-violence-against-black-men-rare-heres-what-data-actually-say


If there is a bias, its so small that its insignificant, one of the big reasons is that it happens so rare.


The protest isn't about systemic racism, its specifically about Police harming "unarmed" black men. And of course the Flag represents an evil country (Colin K words). "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

What I find interesting, since he was adopted by "white" folk who raised him in a solid middle class area - what exactly "radicalizes" a guys like this after he has maid millions?

Yup. However when you go and point out that the original thing protested is bullshit the narrative gets changed to "Systematic Racism".

Duffy wrote:

And steroids.

Compared to trump that would be quite an improvement.

food for thought, but you'll find your own way to debunk anything this has to say:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/opinion/military-support-kaepernick.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0

Couldn’t get past the headline.

How about this true statement...

My father died of a brain tumor and I support the right to abortion.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Like I mentioned, you'll find some way to debunk it - I find this funny. It also explains a lot about where we are as a country. But, I see the humor here.

I don’t but into the notion that an opinion is more valid because the holder of it had a family member die in combat (unless it’s an opinion on what it’s like to have a family member die combat).

If fact, prefacing an opinion with such a statement arguably makes it less valid.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Ever feel as if you're listening to the teacher from Peanuts? whah, whah, whah.....

It doesn't matter what I say or anyone else says - you're always right!

Yay!

Interesting article. Thank you. I'd like to dig more into the stats behind it to see how it jibes with other data about profiling, etc.

Also, be careful about declaring what the protest is or isn't about. Just because CK said the quote above doesn't mean it's the only aspect he's protesting, nor what everyone who is kneeling now is protesting.

Ever feel like an asshole?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I’m to start every post from now on with, “my dad died of brain cancer and...”

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

When they cant win the argument based on facts you move on to emotion.

My dad died of brain cancer and I’ve noticed that this appeal to emotion has been going on for a long time.

Both sides do it.

Did I mention that my dad died of brain cancer?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Human nature.. and Yes. You've mentioned it a few times and I'm sorry for your loss.

An interesting article in the NY Times.

It suggests that there is no racial bias when it comes to police shootings, or that whites are fired on slightly more often than blacks. There are some shortcomings, but it's interesting.

It does need to be put into perspective, however, since the study says that in the years studied in Houston officers fired 507 times, but there were a total of 1.6 million arrests. That means 99.9995% of the officer interactions were non-shooting (I'm estimating here).

The study found that black people were 17% more likely to be the recipient of non-lethal force when everything else was taken into account. So while this study suggests there is little racial bias in shootings, there appears to be one in most of the other interactions (paraphrasing).

I've read that study. It's a good one. But I honestly believe that the black community (at least among the various US minority communities) has more serious problems to deal with than some sort of racial inequality.

Single-mother households, for example. Something like 70% of all black households are now single-parent (usually single mother). I believe that prior to the Great Society initiatives of the mid-1960s, only about 30% of black households were single-parent. I'm also not criticizing our social welfare system -- because I do believe in a social safety net (though one that encourages eventual independence and responsibility).

But it's sometimes the case that a single mother (and repeating this point: single-mother households in the black community exist in great number) can draw more in social welfare benefits than from gainful employment -- benefits that she would lose if she were to marry the father of her children (a healthy percentage of single mothers with multiple children also have had those children by different men, unfortunately). It's almost a disincentive to work and to strive to move into the middle class, and a thriving sub-economy -- which doesn't require withholding of taxes or any of the other hallmarks of traditional employment -- is also at work in many minority communities, which convinces some that there's no need to even obtain a formal or "regular" job. I personally know of a about a dozen people, all in their mid-to-late-30s, who haven't yet come close to obtaining the 40 quarters of work and payroll withholding necessary to qualify for Social Security retirement benefits. This is troublesome as well.

Public schools in many cities where black populations are high (such as right here in Detroit) are almost just warehouses, moving kids along until they can get them out the door in high school, either through graduation or dropout (the rate of which is also high in the black community). Many black employees (heck, many young adult employees of all socioeconomic strata, to be honest) emerge from these environments with little in the way of job discipline or possessing the minimum aptitudes that will give them a reasonable chance of succeeding in the jobs they can find. These people, especially in the black community, are starting out with two strikes already against them.

My sister was a Head Start center administrator down in Detroit until her retirement. Almost no black children at her center came from a two-parent household. Many kids were moved from caregiver to caregiver, and the most stable households tended to be grandparent-centered ones, though those were few and far between. Usually, if they kids were brought into the center by a single mother, there were sometimes severe issues in the home environment, starting with very poor diets (Pepsi and pizza every night), not enough hours sleeping (because they were allowed to watch TV -- which was also their babysitter -- all hours of the night), poor social adjustment -- many of the kids acted out physically, pushing and shoving or even striking other kids (kids learn such behaviors, usually) and so forth.

I'm not sure a strong argument can be made anymore that systemic racial inequality, or outright racism, is producing these negative outcomes -- especially not in majority minority communities and cities (Detroit is one of those). I'm more a believer in dysfunction within a given community than anything else.

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Nah, not from you. But one question - is it ok for all of those fans mentioned in the article that disrespect the national anthem by changing the words to suit their team (or not their team in one instance mentioned)? How about the band mentioned that butchered the anthem? Ok, maybe not them- they didn't do it on purpose.

The picture is funny, but the commentary and the graph are also sad. That community is in danger of self-immolation:



"Look at that graph below. Anyone else see the big, glaring problem there? I ask you, why aren't any of the fashionably woke celebutards or oppressed millionaire athletes "taking the knee" for this?"

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Maybe you haven’t actually read what I think about the flag, National Anthem, and kneeling.

It doesn’t bother me at all.

What I don’t like is politics infecting a fucking football game. How it’s done isn’t really an issue.

When I’m at a game and the anthem is played I stand because that’s the polite thing to do. If you don’t want to stand I don’t really care.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I have to agree. Who gives a shit what a bunch of dumb jocks think? These guys can barely manage their own lives. They aren't role models, or moral sages.

Oh, and as far as BLM is concerned, if you don't want to get shot by the police, don't be a criminal, and certainly don't act like one in front of a nervous guy with a gun on his hip, duh.

Victim mentality.. Darwinism at it's finest.

My dad died of brain cancer and my son walks back and forth to a neighbor friend’s house sometimes with a B.B. gun.

We also live near a police station.

I’ve told him repeatedly that if a policeman tells him to put the gun down he is to do so immediately. I tell him the police don’t know it’s a B.B. gun and that that is not the time to be explaining that it is just a B.B. gun.

I’ve showed him news stories of people getting shot by police to reinforce this.

Same goes if he’s holding a toy gun, stick, phone.

If the cops say “drop it” you drop whatever you’re holding.

It’s AMAZING that people argue with cops.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

http://www.nydailynews.com/...al-article-1.3528086

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Didn't Howard Schultz try some bullshit with people talking politics with Starbucks baristas or some nonsense like that. I think it lasted a week.