There’s hardly any native Americans in the nfl. This is obviously because of systemic racism against native Americans by the league.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Why try to be cute about it?

Any response to the info I gave you on point #1?

Yeah, why are native Americans treated so poorly?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

The data would suggest systemic racism in the judicial system, for the same reasons black people are treated so poorly.

Do you have a response to the data? You've said no systemic racism exists and challenged me to provide data.

I've provided data, and have backed it up (not exhaustively, but legitimately).

Are you saying that perhaps systemic racism does exist, despite your personal experience? Or do you find fault with the data?

It is not as simple as being black and I think you know this.

When I was in my twenties had long hair and hung out with the boys in the wrong places late at night we were talked to constantly by the cops. The cops told many times that what we were doing was drawing their attention. They would ask if we would take it somewhere else. We did. I am sure if we mouthed off, like so many idiots do. There would of been a problem.

Cops are looking for trouble, even I understood this in my twenties. If you want to skate through life, you understand this. Or you can stay angry and challenge them, and be a fool like on a Chris Rock skit.

I just realized I’m dealing with a person who’s incapable of dynamic thinking.

Enjoy your day.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Maybe this is how it is suppose to work. If you can't clean up your certain demographic (this being right or wrong) we are going to be extra hard on you, to pressure your group to clean up their act.
So the thought being- Instead of constantly complaining about how you are being treated, work on yourself and clean up your act so you are no longer a target of the justice system.

Wait, did you just suggest that because you're black, you have an obligation to change the behavior of other black people so the police won't be racist toward them?

You seem to be looking pretty hard to find something to attack.

It seems that his point is to stop looking for others to blame.

That's a great story. You seemed to imply that cops may be racist, but that's because black people commit more crimes, therefore it's natural for the cops to be racist. But rather than suggesting the cops should not be racist, you've suggested that it's the duty of a person who shares characteristics of the people the cops are racist against to change the behavior of other people who share that characteristic, so the cops will stop being racist to that person. Am I reading that wrong?

No. He is simply implying don't act like an asshole and the Police will generally leave you alone.

Usually when you're backed into a corner, you throw an explicative out before you bail.

You said there's no such thing as systemic racism.

I gave you ample data that there very likely is.

You haven't even attempted to address that data. You tried to divert into calling the NFL racist.

I'm honestly willing to have my mind changed, but not by you insisting "it's bullshit," but by using actual data. Show me it's fair, or show me the holes in the data I've presented.

Or change your position.

That's not actually what he said. He said the cops are racist because most crimes are committed by people of color, and that if people of color want the cops to not be racist, then people of color need to stop committing so many crimes.

But that simply puts the onus of stopping the racism of the police onto the people of color. So if you're a perfectly law-abiding black man, and experience racism from the police, Cereal is suggesting that it's your fault for not changing the behavior of people you may not know or associate with, just because you and they share the same skin color.

Here let me requote that for you and you tell me where he said cops are racists.


And now I'll end with what you were looking for from Duffy.. Your fucking stupid.

Be careful. You’re painting yourself into a 3D corner.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

orphious wrote:

And now I'll end with what you were looking for from Duffy.. Your fucking stupid.

Quote:

You might be right about inherent racism. But the truth is when you go to crime scene after crime scene and you see nothing but a certain color then your judgement conforms to these experiences.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, GetCereal is saying that sure, when you see many crimes committed by people of a certain color, then you start to associate the crimes and the color.



The only way I can see to interpret this, is that if a person of color doesn't like the way the police is treating him, then perhaps it's his responsibility to improve the people who share his demographic.

Am I reading that wrong?

Soooo.. you are against personal responsibility for people of color.. Got it.

Absolutely not. If you're acting suspiciously, then you should expect to attract the attention of the police. If you don't want to attract the attention of the police, then shape up.

What I'm against is that idea that being a person of color means you are automatically more suspicious because other people of color acted suspiciously - and the onus is on you to change their behavior.

As is everyone on this forum (I hope). What Cereal is saying, is while wrong, its just not people of color who are profiled as he tried to show with his example of having long hair and being a certain age. He is saying there is certain things you should not do if you do not want Police attention. If you do something to attract that attention, expect to get it. Be responsible for your own actions instead of blaming racist Police.

I'm with you. Obey the law, don't be an idiot, and respect police authority. GetCereal said that, and I agree with him/her 100%.

What I took issue with was the suggestion that if an individual doesn't like how he is treated by the police, who have seen many people of his color commit crimes and therefore have a certain "judgment" about them - then maybe it's that person's responsibility to change the way people of his color interact with police.

And here is maybe where the communication broke down:


I read the "you" in this section as singular, when perhaps GetCereal meant it in the plural. If so, it suggests that the community needs to clean up its act, rather than an individual. (It still leaves the issue of putting the onus of alleviating racism on the group experiencing the racism rather than the group enacting the racism, but that's a separate point).

Sorry busy at work but...

If you use my personal example. We were in our twenties and we fit a certain demo. (more likely to cause trouble) cops are sizing us up (with every nuance) by their experiences in the field. So I guess you can say the cops were judging us by our age, gender and how we looked, but being upset by this gets me nowhere. It's not just a black thing, if we were a hand-full of older black ladies looking like we just left church. The cops would've driven right by without a care.

It is human nature, we all judge by experience, if you don't like how you are being judge work on it. I try hard not to do anything that will draw cops attention because some cops are assholes. I guess we could all take a knee and protest cops unfair treatment of young males. Or we can try to work on ourselves so the cops have no need to harass us.

I found an article that digs into the stats a bit...

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/451466/police-violence-against-black-men-rare-heres-what-data-actually-say


If there is a bias, its so small that its insignificant, one of the big reasons is that it happens so rare.


The protest isn't about systemic racism, its specifically about Police harming "unarmed" black men. And of course the Flag represents an evil country (Colin K words). "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

What I find interesting, since he was adopted by "white" folk who raised him in a solid middle class area - what exactly "radicalizes" a guys like this after he has maid millions?

Yup. However when you go and point out that the original thing protested is bullshit the narrative gets changed to "Systematic Racism".

Duffy wrote:

And steroids.

Compared to trump that would be quite an improvement.

food for thought, but you'll find your own way to debunk anything this has to say:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/opinion/military-support-kaepernick.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0

Couldn’t get past the headline.

How about this true statement...

My father died of a brain tumor and I support the right to abortion.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Like I mentioned, you'll find some way to debunk it - I find this funny. It also explains a lot about where we are as a country. But, I see the humor here.

I don’t but into the notion that an opinion is more valid because the holder of it had a family member die in combat (unless it’s an opinion on what it’s like to have a family member die combat).

If fact, prefacing an opinion with such a statement arguably makes it less valid.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb