So what are they protesting?

Police murdering blacks? Killing them at higher rates than whites?

We know that those assertions are not true.

So what is it now? Systemic racism?

Sorry, I don’t believe in ghosts.

The “protest”, which they have every right to do (imagine that, a bunch of black guys in a racist country are making millions of dollars and protesting against the very country, the only country that allows them this platform), is based on what? What? Other than complete bullshit what is it based on.

And when do we know they got what they want? How do we know?

Is that even possible?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I've given you specific examples in the past, but I'll do it again here. Here's one article, found after a 10-second Google search. The highlights include:

1. Black Americans are more likely to have their cars searched.
2. Black Americans are more likely to be arrested for drug use.
3. Black Americans are more likely to be jailed while awaiting trial.
4. Black Americans are more likely to be offered a plea deal that includes prison time.
5. Black Americans may be excluded from juries because of their race.
6. Black Americans are more likely to serve longer sentences than white Americans for the same offense.
7. Black Americans are more likely to be disenfranchised because of a felony conviction.
8. Black Americans are more likely to have their probation revoked.

Don't just read the headlines. Go read what they mean in the article. Read the supporting data. Don't just dismiss it because it doesn't fit with what you want to believe.

One man’s “non-falsifiable” is another man’s “bullshit.” I put it in the same category as belief in ghosts. I disagree. “Microaggression” is a Newspeak term that turns the meaning of a word on its head. “Agression” is an overt act, a purposeful attack. “Microaggresion” by definition isn’t an agression at all.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I am absolutely fine with you providing the data that backs up your claims.

Oh boy...

I don’t have time to go through point by point of a one sided Slate article.

I will say this though, all your points are related to people who commit crimes. If I believed the criminal justice system was biased against blond haired, blue eyed people I’d be sure not to be a criminal.

If you want to believe in ghosts, go ahead.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I thought you were bald?

So you want me to prove that there are no ghosts?

BK was right, non-falsifiable claims....

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Balding.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Wait, you say "The problem doesn't exist."

I give you data that says that it does.

You say you don't have time to look at the data.

Therefore... the problem must not exist?

Okay. But to be fair, you can't really espouse a position if your response to data that contradicts it is - "Whatever. I don't want to educate myself."

Uh, no. I've given you data that says there is inherent racism in our justice system.

You have not offered any response to that.

So I asked you to show data that the justice system is fair.

Your response to that is - "That's impossible."

So, if I understand you right, you're saying your opinion that there is no racism in the justice system is based on data that's "impossible" to produce, and that data that shows there is racism in the justice system takes too long to debunk.

At least you've made it clear how you've reached your opinions.

1. Does this take into account cultural differences in how black people interact with police when pulled over (see Chris Rock).

2. I don’t think anyone should be arrested for drug use but I can tell you anecdotally from my experience of working (very often) in largely black neighborhoods of South Los Angeles that people in these neighborhoods make almost zero effort to hide their drug use.

3. Economics

4. Economics (public defenders are more likely to make deals)

5. OJ Simpson was acquitted by a mostly black jury.

6. “Same offense” doesn’t mean same circumstances. Also economics.

7. Get convicted of a felony and you can’t vote. That goes for all races.

8. What were the reasons for revoked probation? A probation violation. Don’t do that.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Outstanding! Now we can actually have a discussion. I have a pair of meetings coming up, so it'll take me a little while to respond, but in the meantime I applaud your actually looking at this instead of dismissing it out of hand.

And the offer still stands. If I'm wrong about systemic racism, I want to know it. I'm happy to read whatever data you have to back up your claim.

Knock yourself out.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Black Americans are more likely to have their cars searched.
Black Americans are more likely to be arrested for drug use.
Black Americans are more likely to be jailed while awaiting trial.
Black Americans are more likely to be offered a plea deal that includes prison time.
Black Americans may be excluded from juries because of their race.
Black Americans are more likely to serve longer sentences than white Americans for the same offense.
Black Americans are more likely to be disenfranchised because of a felony conviction.
Black Americans are more likely to have their probation revoked.

Those can be meaningless without context.

For example, if black Americans are more likely to have their probation revoked, did they violate their probation more than non-blacks? Or maybe they are more likely to be jailed while awaiting trial because they are more at risk of repeating crimes? Or maybe they get longer sentences for the same offense because they have a longer history of crime? Maybe their plea deals include prison time because they commit more serious crimes?

I have no idea if any of that is true but I do know how misleading statistics can be.

1. Just looking at some background data for the first question:

The source article from the Washington Post sums up with:

Quote:

"Black drivers are 31 percent more likely to be pulled over than whites; they are more than twice as likely to be subject to police searches as white drivers; and they are nearly twice as likely to not be given any reason for the traffic stop, period."

From an LA Times article about a study Stanford did to try to correct for the way a person might behave after being pulled over:

Quote:

For every 100 black drivers, about 15 were pulled over, compared with 10 stops for every 100 white and Latino driver. Black drivers in the county were searched six times per 100 stops; the rate for Latinos was four searches per 100 stops and for whites, two searches per 100 stops.

But researchers noted such disparities alone do not automatically indicate racial bias, but rather could reflect differences in driving behavior and other factors.

So the Stanford group sought to refine their analysis with a test that seeks to answer the question: What level of suspicion must an officer have to search and how does this threshold of suspicion relate to the race or ethnicity of the driver?
...
"When we applied the threshold test to our traffic stop data, we find police require less suspicion to search black and Hispanic drivers than whites. This double standard is evidence of discrimination," the findings noted.

The Seattle Times ran an article about stops in Missouri:

Quote:

New data released Wednesday show black drivers in Missouri were 75 percent more likely than whites to be pulled over last year, the highest level since the state began compiling data on traffic stops 17 years ago.
...
Other statewide findings for Missouri show blacks, Hispanics and American Indians were more likely to be searched, but contraband was less likely to be found during searches. The report says the higher search rate might be in part attributed to the higher arrest rates among those populations, which lead to searches even if no contraband is suspected.

This just after a quick Google search. Is it ironclad proof of systemic racism? No. There's a lot that goes into the data and some of it is open to interpretation. However, this is a response to just the first point on the list, and there are seven more points that are strongly suggesting the same conclusion. I'll keep chasing down the data on the rest of the points (you could, too).

Why were they pulled over?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Really? You can't even click on the links I provided? I have to do that for you, too?

ETA: Image won't seem to upload. It's in the Wash Post article, broken down by race and type of stop.

You might be right about inherent racism. But the truth is when you go to crime scene after crime scene and you see nothing but a certain color then your judgement conforms to these experiences.
This is just human nature. I know most crimes are committed by males ages 15 - 25 and if I see a group of this demo. and if they are dressed like thugs I watch them carefully.
You can't expect cops to ignore stats and experience. When this has been done you get the Ferguson effect and crime rises quickly.

As for the justice system being unfair. I know most cases are built on by individual circumstances. If a judge sees a long rap sheet of offenses and he sees you as a threat to society, you are more likely to do time.

Maybe this is how it is suppose to work. If you can't clean up your certain demographic (this being right or wrong) we are going to be extra hard on you, to pressure your group to clean up their act.
So the thought being- Instead of constantly complaining about how you are being treated, work on yourself and clean up your act so you are no longer a target of the justice system.

The black community is doing way more damage to itself with the high crime and homicide victims than how the justice system treats its criminals.

You should look at the judges too, not just the outcomes.

a PA study showed Black judges are harsher against whites and blacks. Another study in LA where they looked at criminals who had pleaded guilty and were similar ages showed black judges were harsher with blacks and whites were harsher with whites.

Are we going to call the black judges racists who are being harsher on blacks?

What does that have to do with the protest? They're not protesting their own poor lot in life, but for the community from which they came. They could be zillionaires and it wouldn't, and shouldn't, matter a bit. It's a red herring to point to their personal situations and dismiss them as illegitimate message bearers, since the message is the entire point of the protest. They're using the highest platform available to them, which only makes sense if you're invested in the protest. I mean, this is pretty obvious stuff, here.

Keep in mind that I'm not speaking in defense of the protest whatsoever, just keeping the discussion on points that actually matter.


That fad actually raised a shit ton of money for ALS research, which appears to be paying dividends.

Are you doing that Yahey reverse trolling thing, arguing for one side by pretending to argue against it with points that prove the opposite true? ;)

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Looks like native Americans are the ones who should be kneeling.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Wait, did you just suggest that because you're black, you have an obligation to change the behavior of other black people so the police won't be racist toward them?

Maybe they are, but they don't occupy a venue where millions of people can witness it.

A clear sign that the NFL is racist. Numbers don’t lie.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

???