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Workouts that are always beneficial
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I have been struggling with some recent downtime as I have been getting better at knocking my training out earlier in the day.

My question is this: Are there workouts that are always okay to do and will always be beneficial? Specifically thinking about bike and run workouts as they tend to be easier on the schedule, but swimming would be good to hear about too. Yes, I understand that we also need our rest. But my body has been saying to go more than be idle recently and if its ALWAYS okay to do a 45 min easy job or whatever, I want to be adding it in where I can.
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]
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For cycling - look up "sweet spot" intervals or riding. For running, assuming a good base, tempo type of running where you are running right near the edge of your lactate threshold, kind of surfing along the edge, for 15 - 20 minutes or so, might be your best bang-for-the-buck.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]
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Does sleep count as a workout :-) ?

DeSoto Sports
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]
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I’m no expert, but it seems like an easy bike ride is a good bet. Extra volume at a low “cost”. I’d guess very few of us on here put in more hours than our bodies can handle, and an easy ride shouldn’t compromise a hard session the next morning.

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
For cycling - look up "sweet spot" intervals or riding. For running, assuming a good base, tempo type of running where you are running right near the edge of your lactate threshold, kind of surfing along the edge, for 15 - 20 minutes or so, might be your best bang-for-the-buck.

Steve - those are definitely great value workouts. I was approaching this assuming the OP already had intensity in his morning sessions, but I guess that isn’t specified.

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
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Lets assume that the individual has already completed a bike or run in the morning as well as some strength training. Would they simply do the opposite of what they had completed in the morning? Does a hard effort in the evening compromise that hard effort in the morning? Perhaps it does, perhaps it doesn't. If it has the potential to compromise and you had an easy right in the morning...does an easy ride in the evening add any extra benefit, or is it just wasted miles?

Anyone have a book they can recommend on training theory?
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
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Steve - those are definitely great value workouts. I was approaching this assuming the OP already had intensity in his morning sessions, but I guess that isn’t specified.

Aaron,

Good point, I may have miss-read.

I also agree with your point of - just going for a ride. Many triathletes WAY over think the training. Very few age-group triathletes will ever reach peak volume, thus, just putting in more time, is ALWAYS beneficial. Don't worry about the numbers - just, ride, run or swim!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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So easy miles and minutes can be the gravy on top? I like the sound of that.
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]
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So easy miles and minutes can be the gravy on top?

No, to over simplify, it's what it's ALL about. Many spend a huge amount of time fiddling with the 5% on-top, with extra special training, and a deep-dive into all of the numbers, but really, I'd say for at least the first 5 years of training for those new to triathlon, it's volume, volume, volume - anyway and how you can get it in, it's of HUGE value. That's the 95% :-)

That's why, when you hear and read on here, about people who have inserted bike commuting as part of a regular routine for them. They DON"T think that 5 - 15 km each way to work and back is NOT a big deal. "I'm not going that hard". Then after 6 months to a year of that they are noticing their cycling going to a whole new level!! :-)


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]
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The #1 thing most time crunched athletes can use (say < 12h per week) is more aerobic volume. Not intervals.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting. I didn't think about it like this. I have reviewed USAT scores of individuals in he sport and it does seem like something "happens" in the 3-6 year range of being in the sport where all of a sudden...someone who started out as a 70 average score athlete goes into the mid 90's or even 100's. So put in those extra miles when I can and don't worry about it...just enjoy the time I get to train.
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]
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So put in those extra miles when I can and don't worry about it...just enjoy the time I get to train.


Boom! :-)


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]
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LifeTri wrote:
Interesting. I didn't think about it like this. I have reviewed USAT scores of individuals in he sport and it does seem like something "happens" in the 3-6 year range of being in the sport where all of a sudden...someone who started out as a 70 average score athlete goes into the mid 90's or even 100's. So put in those extra miles when I can and don't worry about it...just enjoy the time I get to train.

1) Frequency: hit each sport multiple times a week (3 to 6)
2) Recovery: active or just lying around, you've gotta absorb the training, weekly/monthly/season cycles
3) Volume: more volume more progress (as long as you can absorb it)

Easy & often is good.
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]
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If you're an older athlete or an office worker doing some work on mobilization and range of motion is a good use of time. It'll help with bike position, swimming stroke and just ensuring the body is not turning itself into a ball of knots internally. Yoga, Foam Rolling and Stretching are all good counter balances to the hard rigors of intense training efforts. Also I'll +1 for throwing in extra aerobic work on the bike or in the pool (none load baring) as they won't do much in the way of affecting the next mornings intensity requirements.


That's my two cents and I have a strict no refund policy!

------
"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]
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I almost always do 2 workouts a day, mainly because I really, really like training. In fact, I hate actual events. Even a Sprint Tri, I dread but look forward to the next day when I can do swims/bikes/runs w/o the headache.

This is my schedule for a couple days of morning and evening sessions. All morning sessions take place at 4am.
Yesterday 3000 yard swim. 1:30 TrainerRoad.
Today 4000 yard swim, 7 mile run
Tomorrow 1:15 TrainerRoad 6 mile run
Friday 3000 yard swim 1 hour TrainerRoad, 5 mile run.

I am a MOP athlete training for 1st full IM. But hope to do 70.3's age group competitive next year just so I have a goal and specific training geared towards a purpose.
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]
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I have been doing running/cycling for 6 years and I don't know the equivalent.

But I know, in the pool 12-15 x 100's at aerobic thresh hold pace (I used pace/100 of a 2500 time trial) with ~ 15 seconds rest is always something worth doing.

I would assume that an easy 30 minute run - even if you ran in the morning - is always good for you. Emphasis on easy.
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
The #1 thing most time crunched athletes can use (say < 12h per week) is more aerobic volume. Not intervals.


Are volume and intervals somehow mutually exclusive? Or are you suggesting that intervals are actually counterproductive?

I'm not even time crunched, but I'll keep my intervals.
Last edited by: jstonebarger: Jun 13, 18 14:05
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [jstonebarger] [ In reply to ]
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jstonebarger wrote:
desert dude wrote:
The #1 thing most time crunched athletes can use (say < 12h per week) is more aerobic volume. Not intervals.


Are volume and intervals somehow mutually exclusive? Or are you suggesting that intervals are actually counterproductive?

I'm not even time crunched, but I'll keep my intervals.

I suppose you need more aerobic volume at race pace he says? 6 min Mile steady for 1 hour run instead of alternating 5minutes @ 5mm / 7mm for 1 hour


http://www.coupleofathletes.com
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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Look at what the pros do on Strava. A lot of easy volume. Blumenfeldt runs at 8 minute pace for a lot of his easy runs, and he runs 30 minutes off the bike. The best thing most triathletes can do is add volume to their program. I would even argue that most triathletes don't need more than 1 hard bike and 1 hard run per week. the rest of your bike and run should be easy volume and neuromuscular training like strides, short hills and plyometrics.
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [Thebigturtle] [ In reply to ]
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Thebigturtle wrote:
...I would even argue that most triathletes don't need more than 1 hard bike and 1 hard run per week. the rest of your bike and run should be easy volume and neuromuscular training like strides, short hills and plyometrics.

Yeah, intervals.

So assuming the volume is the same, what's the harm in more than 1 hard bike and 1 hard run per week?
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [jstonebarger] [ In reply to ]
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jstonebarger wrote:
Thebigturtle wrote:
...I would even argue that most triathletes don't need more than 1 hard bike and 1 hard run per week. the rest of your bike and run should be easy volume and neuromuscular training like strides, short hills and plyometrics.

Yeah, intervals.

So assuming the volume is the same, what's the harm in more than 1 hard bike and 1 hard run per week?

I don't think strides and Short hills count as intervals in true sense of interval training.

The harm in too many hard runs is injury. Go look at the 100 Days running thread or whatever that ST challenge was at the beginning of the year. Get to the middle pages toward the end and everyone was injured.

You want to do work that isn't going to lead to injury. How do I know? I didn't listen to this advice and ended up injured.

But, that is how I ended up in triathlon. I needed something to do since I couldn't run for 2 months. Bought my 1st bike and learned to swim in April of last year.
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [jstonebarger] [ In reply to ]
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jesus christ dude seriously?

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]
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LifeTri wrote:
I have been struggling with some recent downtime as I have been getting better at knocking my training out earlier in the day.

My question is this: Are there workouts that are always okay to do and will always be beneficial? Specifically thinking about bike and run workouts as they tend to be easier on the schedule, but swimming would be good to hear about too. Yes, I understand that we also need our rest. But my body has been saying to go more than be idle recently and if its ALWAYS okay to do a 45 min easy job or whatever, I want to be adding it in where I can.

Fill a glass with ice. Pour bourbon in it. Drink it. Repeat the process. That’s a perfect evening workout when you got your s/b/r done early.
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [jstonebarger] [ In reply to ]
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Are volume and intervals somehow mutually exclusive? ******no

Or are you suggesting that intervals are actually counterproductive? ******don't be a moron, you've been on here long enough to know I'd never say that.

The majority of time crunched athletes trade intensity for volume. I'll use trainer road as an example. Take Mont Gosford. That last 16 minute interval is fucking stupid. Who ever designed that should be kicked in the balls. Since the avg person who is time crunched instead of squeezing in more interval time they would probably be as well off if not better if they actually traded some of those intervals for aerobic riding/running

what I'm saying is that aerobic development not intervals ah fuck it just read this:

Intervals, Thresholds, and Long Slow Distance: the Role of Intensity and Duration in Endurance Training Stephen Seiler1 and Espen Tønnessen2 Sportscience 13, 32-53, 2009 (sportsci.org/2009/ss.htm)

I don't have the bandwidth today

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: Workouts that are always beneficial [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]
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LifeTri:

Depends on what race and race distance(s)you are training for, where you are on the timeline, and what your current workouts include. If going long and weeks away from race day, then inject additional aerobics on the bike and run. Going long and 2-4 weeks out from race day? Add in relatively shorter workouts at above race pace. Purpose is to make your race pace feel comfortable to you, not easy to you (or to others). If racing Oly/Sprint, then inject speed workouts. Again shorter workouts above race pace on the bike and/or on the road running. Learn the difference of half & full race paces compared to Oly & Sprint race paces.

Also, recognize your current workout ratio. If heavy on run, then lean towards more bike clicks. If long on bike, get out the running shoes. If legs are hurting but you need to jump start your anaerobic, then jump in the pool for high turnover, longer recovery intervals. If you experience workout hangovers, then you know you're doing too much.

Since you know when your body is saying to go more, listen and look for it to tell you when to back-off. The weekdays leading up to your race be sure and taper. You want your body asking for more in race week. Be sure to fulfill its request on race day.

Doug

https://www.palmtreesahead.com/

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