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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [adoucett] [ In reply to ]
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adoucett wrote:
Meanwhile... I just purchased a brand new set of tubulars.... if I flat on these, I'm toast!

Carry Pit-Stop Road Racing Tube And Tire Repair Kit. It works just fine.
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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exxxviii wrote:
Pieman wrote:
My friend told me that he uses two tire levers, not one, to help with the last part of the tire that is opposite from the valve. Does that help you?
This exactly. I use 2 Pedro's Bicycle Tire Lever together to work the last ~4" of tire into the rim. I do not think these levers are special, they are just popular in my area. I find that levers that are not quite as wide as the Pedro's levers work a little easier for me.

Coincidentally, I got a flat this weekend that also tore the sidewall. I had to boot it with a candy wrapper along with doing the tube swap. I looked up my Garmin file, and it only took me 11 minutes total. That was probably my worst-case scenario for amount of time.

I don't know if this is your case, but as a life long bike mechanic, I cannot count the many many many times I've heard this. NEVER use tire levers to install a tire, EVER. This can over stress the side wall, and lead to side wall blowouts. Sometimes immediately when you air up the tire, and sometimes a week or month or so down the road. Almost every time someone has a mystery sidewall blowout, I ask if they use tire levers for installation, and the answer is alway yes. Please read the above posts, and learn how to installs tires by hand.

Athlinks / Strava
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
8. Some combinations of rims and tires are a P I T A. Other combinations combine effortless.


This.

My regular go-to wheels that I ride the most on are now almost ancient, but with Conti 4000's and now 5000's they go on easy with very little effort - so I'm reluctant to give them up simply for that fact.

Some wheel/tire combos are absolutely brutal. Others require a bit more finesse and knowledge - as an example, the HED, extra wide rim bed on the Ardennes and other HED wheels, if you don't know what you are doing will seem like one of those impossible combos. Here - you need to get the rim beads from both sides of the tire down in that little trough in the middle of the rim on the section. This reduces the circumference of the wheel, by a few mm, and enough to take the putting on of the tire, from impossible, to will go with a bit of effort!

I ride a moderate amount - and typically average 1 - 3 on-the-road punctures and tube changes each year. For me on the side of the road, it's at most if I am really pushing it a 2 - 3 minute process, and I'm on my way.

Familiarity with the CO2 Inflater is key. Some of them are tricky to operate - others more straightforward. As others have mentioned, get a few extra CO2 cartridges and practice at home to become comfortable and confident.

and does the tube installation occur before or after both beads are in the central trough/channel? And if after, how does one get a tube into the tire cavity?
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
Fleck wrote:
8. Some combinations of rims and tires are a P I T A. Other combinations combine effortless.


This.

My regular go-to wheels that I ride the most on are now almost ancient, but with Conti 4000's and now 5000's they go on easy with very little effort - so I'm reluctant to give them up simply for that fact.

Some wheel/tire combos are absolutely brutal. Others require a bit more finesse and knowledge - as an example, the HED, extra wide rim bed on the Ardennes and other HED wheels, if you don't know what you are doing will seem like one of those impossible combos. Here - you need to get the rim beads from both sides of the tire down in that little trough in the middle of the rim on the section. This reduces the circumference of the wheel, by a few mm, and enough to take the putting on of the tire, from impossible, to will go with a bit of effort!

I ride a moderate amount - and typically average 1 - 3 on-the-road punctures and tube changes each year. For me on the side of the road, it's at most if I am really pushing it a 2 - 3 minute process, and I'm on my way.

Familiarity with the CO2 Inflater is key. Some of them are tricky to operate - others more straightforward. As others have mentioned, get a few extra CO2 cartridges and practice at home to become comfortable and confident.

and does the tube installation occur before or after both beads are in the central trough/channel? And if after, how does one get a tube into the tire cavity?

One of lifeā€™s great mysteries...

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Innner tube is already in.

It's good to have a lighter colored rim tape, so you can see where the inner tube may not be fully in. Where it's not in, I go to the spot(s) on the wheel and see if I can kneed the tube in under the beads and into the actual tire. If this does not work, last resort and being REALLY careful, I take a plastic tire iron and VERY GENTLY see if I can poke it, under and up and into the tire.

Sometimes, if you are at home, and you have a hand pump handy - trying putting a SMALL bit of air in the tube - often this can suck/pull the tube up into the tire. Obviously this is next to impossible on the side of the road with a CO2 unless you are REALLY familer and confident with the regulator on your inflator


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [Pieman] [ In reply to ]
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Pieman wrote:
I re-read the advice and still can't visualize it. Are you saying to use both hands to push the last part of the tire onto the rim at the same time, starting at 9:00 and 3:00 and then working up toward 10:00 and 2:00, then 11:00 and 1:00? Because I have tried that with my thumbs and can't do it.

I just asked my friend again and he does that but with two tire levers.

Yes that's it.
Make sure you push the tyre into the centre of the rim too - not just on overnthe edge (the rim is deeper in the middle so it is a smaller diameter = can get the tyre bead onto the rim further).

Even start at 5 and 7 not 3 and 12 to get more tyre into the well in the rim (to get more use of that smaller diameter).
And repeat several times if you have to - getting a little bit more in and more tyre over the lip of the rim each time.

Take it steady tho. And be careful to make sure the tube doesn't get pinched - especially if you use tyre levers for the last bit.
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
Innner tube is already in.

It's good to have a lighter colored rim tape, so you can see where the inner tube may not be fully in. Where it's not in, I go to the spot(s) on the wheel and see if I can kneed the tube in under the beads and into the actual tire. If this does not work, last resort and being REALLY careful, I take a plastic tire iron and VERY GENTLY see if I can poke it, under and up and into the tire.

Sometimes, if you are at home, and you have a hand pump handy - trying putting a SMALL bit of air in the tube - often this can suck/pull the tube up into the tire. Obviously this is next to impossible on the side of the road with a CO2 unless you are REALLY familer and confident with the regulator on your inflator

not the most hygenic method, but you can do that by blowing on the valve too. it's easier to install the tube if it has a little bit of shape to it.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
Innner tube is already in.

It's good to have a lighter colored rim tape, so you can see where the inner tube may not be fully in. Where it's not in, I go to the spot(s) on the wheel and see if I can kneed the tube in under the beads and into the actual tire. If this does not work, last resort and being REALLY careful, I take a plastic tire iron and VERY GENTLY see if I can poke it, under and up and into the tire.

Sometimes, if you are at home, and you have a hand pump handy - trying putting a SMALL bit of air in the tube - often this can suck/pull the tube up into the tire. Obviously this is next to impossible on the side of the road with a CO2 unless you are REALLY familer and confident with the regulator on your inflator


I'm having a helluva time on HED Ardennes SL+ rims. Were the tires tubeless, I'd have been fine, but the tube makes it all the more difficult. Was able to install the tire on the front rim, but it just won't go on the rear rim (same tires and tubes).

I was able to get one of the beads into the channel, insert the tube, and attempted to get the other bead into the channel, but it just ain't working. The last quarter was just not happening, and i ripped the tube in the process. I currently have a bandage around my index finger, as I scraped off a good amount of skin while wielding the tire lever.

I even applied a good amount of soapy sprays on the rim, still no go for the rear
Last edited by: echappist: Aug 10, 20 16:36
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [Dean T] [ In reply to ]
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Dean T wrote:
Please read the above posts, and learn how to installs tires by hand.

I have seen this method to change the tire by hand, but I can't do it.

I can't do a lot of things that some bike techs can do easily.

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:


Depends on the rim too. I have a pair of campy wheels that are just barely concave. Impossible to get tires on without levers.


About 30 years ago I built up a set of wheels using Campy Ypsilon Strada rims. Combined with 20mm Specialized Turbo R tires, that was a guaranteed broken 2 or 3 levers getting the tires installed.

The reason I even had those rims is that I had a customer bring them in, to get a wheelset built up. He came back about a week after picking up his wheels, complaining that he got a flat on the road and could not get the tire off, broke both his tire levers. Said he didn't want the rims, and paid to get his brand new wheels rebuilt with some Mavics. He didn't want the Ypsilons back, so I used them on a pair of hubs I had sitting around. And realized right away just what he was complaining about... :)

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"
Last edited by: Warbird: Aug 10, 20 17:19
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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This is the absolute most important advice.
When it tightens up, go back lower down and make sure the rest of tire furthest from your hands is deep in the middle of the rim.

I have gotten on many tires by hand that others thought required levers.



jimatbeyond wrote:
mdtrihard wrote:
Are the rims tubeless capable also? Recently, I've replaced a couple tires on rims that were for tubeless also. It appeared to be way friggin harder than a standard rim. B.S!



If you put the tire beads in the middle of the channel in the rim, the tire should go on fairly easily.
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [Dean T] [ In reply to ]
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Dean T wrote:
NEVER use tire levers to install a tire, EVER. This can over stress the side wall, and lead to side wall blowouts.
In this case, I hit a piece of road debris that cut the sidewall and made a small gouge in the rim. Other than that, I have never had a sidewall failure other than a road cut.

And also in this case, I could not have installed it by hand. My hands were so soppy wet with sweat that I could not get a grip. I can reinstall a tire by hand dry, but that rarely happens on a ride, so I donā€™t bother to try. Even a pro could not bare-hand reinstall a tire on my Ardennes on a ride. And, we did pinch the tire into the center channel.
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [plant_based] [ In reply to ]
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plant_based wrote:
Dean T wrote:
Please read the above posts, and learn how to installs tires by hand.


I have seen this method to change the tire by hand, but I can't do it.

I can't do a lot of things that some bike techs can do easily.
I'm in the "don't worry about being one of the cool kids" group. I change one or two flats every year on the side of the road, along with the tubes/tires I change at home. I swallow my pride and always use tire levers. (I'm in awe of the guys who can remove/mount tires without levers, but it's beyond me and I've never had a problem using levers with sidewall failures.) On the side of the road, I use a CO2 inflator. Practice using one if necessary, but I've never had a problem with them. At home, you'll always have your floor pump. As far as using a mini pump on the side of the road, they require a fair amount of effort and upper body strength and even then it will take a few minutes to get a reasonable amount of air into the new tube. A frame pump works better, but I haven't had one of them on my bike in the last 30 years.

Good luck!

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [Pieman] [ In reply to ]
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I glanced over most of what was said and saw some things I strongly disagree with so if someone already pointed them out, apologies for the repetition.

Tire levers:
Don't use levers to put tires on, only to take them off. I love the pedro levers as I find they work best being a bulky and stiff lever. One lever is all I need. Slip it in, fold the bead over the rim, grip the rim and tire on one side of the lever, and with the free hand push the lever away from you. You can pull, but that's a great way to punch yourself in the face. Ask DesertDude how he knows. šŸ˜

Tire off:
Once you have the tire off, of course look for shit, as you don't want another flat in like 20 feet. With your spare tube you want to blow some air in the tube with your lungs. Give it some shape and body. You should already have one bead on the rim so place the partially inflated tube into the tire.

Getting the tire back on:
START at the OPPOSITE end of the valve stem and END at the VALVE!! This is key in preventing a tire from pinching a tube and makes mounting the tire infinitely easier as the bead isn't pushed away from the center by the valve. I know 95% of folks out there say to do it the other way, but trust me on this. You'll thank me later. Make sure that bead is in the channel and then work with pressure towards the valve stem (similar on how you would mount a tubular) When you get close to the valve stem and you don't have the strongest of hands then you can let some of the air out of the tube to finish getting that tire seated.

One day I will make a video (I always am saying that), but it really is kind of easy. If with practice and proper technique you still struggle, well, some folks talents lie elsewhere and that's okay. As for taking longer on the road it's because you have to stop and unpack all your shit, do the dead, and then pack your shit back up. The act of changing a tire should take the same amount of time.

My YouTubes

Last edited by: LAI: Aug 10, 20 17:35
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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Getting the tire back on: [b wrote:
START at the OPPOSITE end of the valve stem and END at the VALVE!!

I also find this method to be much easier. If you start at the valve, the valve prevents the beads from sliding into the center channel. I actually like having those difficult last few inches being just to the right/left of the valve...to avoid having the valve getting in the way.
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [Pieman] [ In reply to ]
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Get both beads of the tire into the channel all around the rim until you have just a couple of inches left to seat. It should slip on nicely. If it's a new tire, sqiurt soapy water along both beads around the tire and slip it on.
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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LAI wrote:
I glanced over most of what was said and saw some things I strongly disagree with so if someone already pointed them out, apologies for the repetition.

Tire levers:
Don't use levers to put tires on, only to take them off. I love the pedro levers as I find they work best being a bulky and stiff lever. One lever is all I need. Slip it in, fold the bead over the rim, grip the rim and tire on one side of the lever, and with the free hand push the lever away from you. You can pull, but that's a great way to punch yourself in the face. Ask DesertDude how he knows. šŸ˜

Tire off:
Once you have the tire off, of course look for shit, as you don't want another flat in like 20 feet. With your spare tube you want to blow some air in the tube with your lungs. Give it some shape and body. You should already have one bead on the rim so place the partially inflated tube into the tire.

Getting the tire back on:
START at the OPPOSITE end of the valve stem and END at the VALVE!! This is key in preventing a tire from pinching a tube and makes mounting the tire infinitely easier as the bead isn't pushed away from the center by the valve. I know 95% of folks out there say to do it the other way, but trust me on this. You'll thank me later. Make sure that bead is in the channel and then work with pressure towards the valve stem (similar on how you would mount a tubular) When you get close to the valve stem and you don't have the strongest of hands then you can let some of the air out of the tube to finish getting that tire seated.

One day I will make a video (I always am saying that), but it really is kind of easy. If with practice and proper technique you still struggle, well, some folks talents lie elsewhere and that's okay. As for taking longer on the road it's because you have to stop and unpack all your shit, do the dead, and then pack your shit back up. The act of changing a tire should take the same amount of time.


I'll add this...
When get the 2nd bead almost all the way on and going to use the tire lever for the last 10-12", DO NOT, EVER, NEVER NEVER NEVER, try to put the tire lever in the middle and try to force it on in 1 go. Guaranteed you'll break the lever. Slide the tire lever under the bead until it sits on the edge of the rim without pinching the tube, then slide it close to the edge of the bead closest to you that isn't seated about 2-3" away from the edge. Then seat small sections of 2-3" at a time. After a couple of those are done, you can see the remaining part of the unseated bead sliding up closer to the edge, of the braking track if you are using rim brakes. At that time you just might be able to use your palms or thumbs for the last bit. I've been doing it this way with the same plastic tire lever for 3 years. To prevent the tube from being cut by the sharp edge of the tire lever, I took a metal fingernail file to the edges of the lever to make them more round.

Some people like CO2, and I have used it before with this nozzle that makes it super easy and quick. However, I have a small pump that fits in the seat bag that I use on overnight trips because I don't want to reinflate with another CO2 canister the next day after some of the CO2 leaks out overnight.

The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.
Last edited by: Slug: Aug 10, 20 19:34
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [Dean T] [ In reply to ]
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second that, never use a lever to get the tire back onto the rim. also worked in shops with people wondering why they keep ruining their tubes and tires.

My 'hand saver' is the Crank Bros. Speedier Lever, though the TyreKey also looks interesting.
Neither are as small as a 'regular' tire lever but it makes life easier and not as likely to get blood blisters on my hands from $^@:($U%@($

Anne Barnes
ABBikefit, Ltd
FIST/SICI/FIST DOWN DEEP
X/Y Coordinator
abbikefit@gmail.com
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [Slug] [ In reply to ]
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Depending on the tire, sometimes you can use the tire lever to slide the bead on.

I like having a little bit of air in the tube, it eliminates issues with pinching the tube as it gets the tube up and out of the way. I donā€™t even bother checking for pinched sections anymore.

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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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my post should have ended this thread. my job is a bike messenger. if im changing flats, im not getting paid. here is a pic of a screw i got in my tired. i just unscrew and keep riding. This tire got me 10,000 miles (5000 more than the warranty)


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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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While I like your passion for your tires, those probably don't have the low rolling resistance of some of the tires used and liked by riders here, and flats are just an accepted part of the increased speed.

As for the tire levers, peeps saying that they should never be used are being a bit unrealistic. There are only 2 options, either you use them or you don't.

For those against tire levers, you probably have the hand strength of a gorilla or a wheel/tire combo that goes on like butter on pancakes. Congrats! Being strong or smart/lucky with your wheel/tire combo choice is awesome.

For those that use tire levers, there are a few reasons.

(1) They don't have the hand strength of a gorilla.
(2) They have a wheel/tire combo that is a MFer to get on even for those who do have gorilla hands.
Or
(3) Some people who even have gorilla hands but also have experience/common sense/patience would rather take advantage of available tech to make life easier instead of turning a flat into a knuckle busting, cursing display on the side of the road to be laughed at by others.
(4) They don't have access to a bucket of hot soapy water during the ride.

The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
my post should have ended this thread.
Quote:
my job is a bike messenger. if im changing flats, im not getting paid.
These two points are contradictory. Most of us aren't cycling as messengers whose paychecks rely on absolutely perfect anti-flat reliability, so work-related considerations have little relevance.

Quote:
This tire got me 10,000 miles (5000 more than the warranty)
Even if Tannus tires lasted literally forever and were free, I wouldn't use them.
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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Alvin Tostig wrote:
plant_based wrote:
Dean T wrote:
Please read the above posts, and learn how to installs tires by hand.


I have seen this method to change the tire by hand, but I can't do it.

I can't do a lot of things that some bike techs can do easily.

I'm in the "don't worry about being one of the cool kids" group. I change one or two flats every year on the side of the road, along with the tubes/tires I change at home. I swallow my pride and always use tire levers. (I'm in awe of the guys who can remove/mount tires without levers, but it's beyond me and I've never had a problem using levers with sidewall failures.) On the side of the road, I use a CO2 inflator. Practice using one if necessary, but I've never had a problem with them. At home, you'll always have your floor pump. As far as using a mini pump on the side of the road, they require a fair amount of effort and upper body strength and even then it will take a few minutes to get a reasonable amount of air into the new tube. A frame pump works better, but I haven't had one of them on my bike in the last 30 years.

Good luck!


I'm sorry - did I ask you if you use tire levers? My point was that I can't change a tube without them.

Edit: Also, I'm perfectly happy with my hand pump. And yes, I have a home floor pump. Thanks bro.

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney
Last edited by: plant_based: Aug 10, 20 22:23
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [Slug] [ In reply to ]
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Slug wrote:
While I like your passion for your tires, those probably don't have the low rolling resistance of some of the tires used and liked by riders here, and flats are just an accepted part of the increased speed.

As for the tire levers, peeps saying that they should never be used are being a bit unrealistic. There are only 2 options, either you use them or you don't.

For those against tire levers, you probably have the hand strength of a gorilla or a wheel/tire combo that goes on like butter on pancakes. Congrats! Being strong or smart/lucky with your wheel/tire combo choice is awesome.

For those that use tire levers, there are a few reasons.

(1) They don't have the hand strength of a gorilla.
(2) They have a wheel/tire combo that is a MFer to get on even for those who do have gorilla hands.
Or
(3) Some people who even have gorilla hands but also have experience/common sense/patience would rather take advantage of available tech to make life easier instead of turning a flat into a knuckle busting, cursing display on the side of the road to be laughed at by others.
(4) They don't have access to a bucket of hot soapy water during the ride.

While I appreciate both the mechanical leverage tools provide and the machismo of using high grip strength hands, I have noticed that use of tire levers do create some issues: (1) frequently pinch the inner tube under the tire bead (which is absolutely unacceptable for latex inner tubes) and (2) distract from other solutions like seating the tube properly and adjusting the mounted portions of the tire.
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Re: Why is changing a tire so hard? [aravilare] [ In reply to ]
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aravilare wrote:
Slug wrote:
While I like your passion for your tires, those probably don't have the low rolling resistance of some of the tires used and liked by riders here, and flats are just an accepted part of the increased speed.

As for the tire levers, peeps saying that they should never be used are being a bit unrealistic. There are only 2 options, either you use them or you don't.

For those against tire levers, you probably have the hand strength of a gorilla or a wheel/tire combo that goes on like butter on pancakes. Congrats! Being strong or smart/lucky with your wheel/tire combo choice is awesome.

For those that use tire levers, there are a few reasons.

(1) They don't have the hand strength of a gorilla.
(2) They have a wheel/tire combo that is a MFer to get on even for those who do have gorilla hands.
Or
(3) Some people who even have gorilla hands but also have experience/common sense/patience would rather take advantage of available tech to make life easier instead of turning a flat into a knuckle busting, cursing display on the side of the road to be laughed at by others.
(4) They don't have access to a bucket of hot soapy water during the ride.


While I appreciate both the mechanical leverage tools provide and the machismo of using high grip strength hands, I have noticed that use of tire levers do create some issues: (1) frequently pinch the inner tube under the tire bead (which is absolutely unacceptable for latex inner tubes) and (2) distract from other solutions like seating the tube properly and adjusting the mounted portions of the tire.

That's why I included experience/common sense/patience in #3. It's really not difficult to ensure that the tire lever isn't cutting or pinching the tube. Put the leading edge of the lever against the brake track, slide it up until the curved edge of the lever slips over the edge of the rim without going so far as to catch the tube, then gently lift the bead over. I've used this method for about 20 tire swaps and about 10 flats on my 3 most recent bikes and only in the beginning did I cut a tube.

The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.
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