Almost like a wall push off swimming too! I noticed since I started rowing that my wall push offs are better. I am coming out of the water 2m past the flags with a solid push, streamline and 2 dolphin kicks!

Reporting back in as swim Nationals are over and I did a bit more rowing this week. Generally the sessions are short...typically 3x 1000m-2000m range depending on the day that I do as part of a weight circuit either before of after swimming which is my main aerobic activity. So the rowing trends more towards ramping up and going hard (for me).

My favourite "set" is inside a 2000m, starting easy and building up for 400m without straps, then putting on the straps and roll up to the 500m point and then doing 500m to 1500m at 3:45 to 3:50 range....then row easy for 200m and then do a minute trying to build up so that i am going sub 1:50 but ideally close to 1:45. I am cautious to try to go harder as I don't want to do anything stupid to my back....but as I get closer to 1:45, what I find is that I don't stay on the seat properly....my body wants to launch off of it like I am jumping backwards like a back stroke swimmer out of the blocks. I THINK I have to push harder with the legs (visualize pushing the entire erg forward) vs this backward jump motion (I think more tugging). I think part of the problem it that I have to apply a much harder force with my legs in a much shorter duration when I get to the higher speeed/power output.

Sorry, no video yet but hopefully the text explains it. I am generally doing half of the rowing without straps in the low 2:0x range. Then when I want to go harder than 2:00, I get strapped in. I noticed that my lumbar region feels more "solid" with no straps....but I don't know if that has something to do wth the straps changing my form, or being able to apply more force once strapped in. Generally I cannot go lower than 2:00 without straps....I've only seen sub 2:00 once when working with no straps. Once strapped in high sub 2:00 is relatively "easy".

Sub 23 for 6000 today, happy with the effort. Actually hadn’t planned on doing 6k, but was planning on doing 3x1500 but felt good so decided to keep at it. Slight negative split hitting 3:41 for the last k.
Also did 4x500 last week at 1:45, getting closer to sub 7 but still bits to go. I think 5x500 with 1 min recovery would be a good indicator of 2k shape so I will try that and see where I am.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

OK so it was payback time the gym today.

I was on one rowing machine, did my warmup and then went did one round of my weight circuit and came back. Well, the machine i was using was occupied by this massive dude, must have been easily twice my weight (so he would be 280 lbs), totally buff football defensive end type.

I set the machine on damper setting zero to 3 and set the foot pedal at "2". OK so I peer over and this dude has the damper on 10. His butt is sliding up and down with his legs doing nothing and he's just yanking on the oar with his upper body.

I peer over and say, "hey the Olympic gold medal folks set this damper thing on 3-5"
He replies, "yeah but I want it HARD"
I ask him, "what number does is say in minutes per 500m"....I lean and push some buttons and get the screen.
I said, "See this number here....you're not even breaking 2:30...a big muscular guy like you, if you use your legs you can go way sub 1:40 and probably 1:2x....you have enough leg power to squat a Honda Civic...I can barely squat a starbucks cup of coffee"

So he says, "I don't believe you about rowing on zero"
Then I reply "OK, just try to get your number here below 1:40...I don't care if you use 10 or zero on the damper"

So he tries and cannot break 2:20.

Then I get on this thing and show him how to engage the legs, no straps, not using arms (basically everything you guys told me.
He looks at me and says, "you're not even working and going 2:0x".
Then I strapped in and and ramped it up to 1:43.

At this point, he's not believing that this is even possible as I'm not looking like I am working harder than him and I have this tiny midget body vs his NFL lineman status! So we then proceed to spend several minutes and I try to explain all the stuff you guys explained on this thread. It was kind of funny how ill informed everyone in the gym is and now I am some kind of a resident expert on how to use this machine (not that I am an expert, I am just regurgitating what you guys have written here)!!!

Crazy stuff, but I am sure you "real rowing guys see this type of stuff in every gym".

Super thanks for your patience walking me through all this. I am getting the hang of this. I'll keep training through the summer and give a 2000m a go in the fall. I THINK sub 7:30 is possibile as 1:50-1:52 pace. I do 3:45 for 1000m often. I think I need to get the 1000m time down to 3:40 to get the 2000m to 7:30. Does that sound around right?

By the way, I have noticed some good things in terms of body range of motion when I squat down to get things out of the fridge, or I have to lift things off the ground. Also it is putting stress on my upper body and shoulders in a different way from swimming. As I am swimming 100K per month in general, variety is a good thing (and I am doing all 4 strokes, but still).

Dev

I can contribute nothing to your knowledge of indoor rowing, but I am waiting anxiously to find out if the mileage on the tower can count for next year’s run challenge...

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

all.the.time. next time you see this guy, let him know the benchmark for world class 130lb female is 7' (1:45/500m). ;-) ;-)
yes, neg split is prob the best way to go. even splits are hard, and take a lot of confidence (and, for most, A LOT of attempts to get them right). don't underestimate the 3rd 500 (of 2000m). it's always a bitch.

again, video would help.

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no sponsors | no races | nothing to see here

Nice! You're becoming an expert. Yeah it's usually tough to look at most people on the gym ergs...

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

I am going to try to get someone to sneek a video in at the gym. They seem to be pretty anal about no video's in the city pools and gyms...let's see!

That beefcake dude in the gym was me (well minus being 280 lbs and a buff defensive end type) when this thread started. I just replayed everything you guys have been saying for a few months now!

Across sports on ST there is a lot of knowledge from really high caliber athletes. There are not that many communities where you get this level of group support. I have been getting the same level of positive encouragement and ongoing tips and inputs on the fish threads as I try to become a butterfly and IM swimmer. It's a slow, and largely pathetic work in progress for an Adult onset swimmer, but dammit, I'm gunning for the national championships in 2035 when I hit 70-74. I think by then I can be in contention in the 400IM and 200 fly if I don't fall apart before then (the latter, is generally the problem). I did get a bronze medal in the 200 fly at nationals this year 1.5 years after learning fly, but that's cause all the good swimmers avoided the 200 fly....you can only beat the guys that show up. Seriously though, the rowing training has helped my wall push offs in the pull. I think I am 0.5 - 1 second per 25m faster with better push offs. I have also been able to do a bit of riding again. Riding out of the saddle is no problem...riding seated i have constant leg spasms, so I just putter from my house to a local small hill that is ~1K long and I just do repeats of it standing and coasting down. I "seem" to have more force on my downstroke (kind of related to what you were saying about rowing being more force per stroke). I am not riding with my power meter for now, mainly because I don't want to see any numbers and get frustrated, and just go by feel. But standing climbing is feeling pretty good. I am certain when I can get back to seated TT style riding, my FTP will be no different than before my disc injury with all the hard swimming and now with the rowing.

I'm in the same boat now (what a pun).

O can't run at all at the moment and am very limited in my biking because of knee pain.
And I don't swim as I am a duathlete.

So my daily sport routine currently consists of 30-120 min core sessions. In the gym today I tried the rowing erg and luckily it causes no pain in the knee.

Man, what a great device!
I did 2x 4 mins steady and then 1 min hard. After that my glutes were burning like never before and I was still breathing like a horse 5 mins later.

I guess I am going to spend some time watching proper technique videos and use it as a tool as long as I am injured.

It should be great to keep fitness until I am ready to start the Zofingen build.

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10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

Welcome to the virtual "boat". Lots of amazing advice from high caliber knowledgeable people were imparted on this thread. Scroll through and try out what these guys are saying!

If it doesn't already exist, perhaps we could look at creating a Slowtwitch affiliation on the Concept2 Logbook site...it'd be cool to see how and what people are doing.

This week: new 100m ranking at 18.1s, 500m at 1:39.3. Both done at DF130 (the NZ testing standard, so I just went with that). More testing to come.

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Wow well done!

I don't think I have ever seen 1:3x on the display. I MAY have gotten down to 1:40 momentarily, but definitely 1:41....but that was instantaneous, not over 500m! The funny thing is that 1:40 is "only 350W" and I've done max power well over 2x of that, but on the erg, no chance....also a bit scared to hurt myself given all the warnings on this thread!

Ah cheers, I was greying out in the last 100m! I'll see if I can get an affiliation group sorted via C2.

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Totally random question. I just bought a whitewater raft with oar frame. I have access to a concept 2 at work. Does anyone have tips for using it to build strength for the more upright rowing position you use in a raft without as much forward and back motion? Would you just use it normally and expect it to transfer.

I have two multi day trips planned and want to boost my strength ahead of them.

I was surprised not to be sore after three days of short trips but want to build up for the bigger trips.

Sorry, I really don't know - but I'd imagine any solid work done on the rower would probably benefit you somehow.

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I think there will be some transfer, just not specific. You won't go wrong. All these sports help each other to some degree. Largely I find that specificity is over rated concept (other than for running) unless you want to get really really good at a single sport. If you want to get recreationally good at many sports, volume via variety is always additive (until it becomes too much).

Hi guys, I am seeing a bunch of the concept2 units showing up on the local classifieds in the $900 to $1000 CDN range. I'll probably wait till the end of the summer to buy one to put in my basement because this way I won't do "too much" given that i need to go to the gym to do it right now. What range seems reasonable. This seems to be the local market price range.

Seems reasonable, especially if there's a bunch of them at similar price. You ideally want either a privately owned one or one that's been fully reconditioned. The ones in gyms and particularly in rowing clubs can take an absolute hammering, they'll still work but can need some money spent on them to get them up to scratch.

A good test of whether they've been well maintained is how well the chain retracts during the recovery. If there's slack in the chain as you go up the slide it implies it's not been serviced (there's a bungee cord which pulls the chain in, it stretches out over time and needs re-tensioning which is actually pretty straightforward). Just rowing a few strokes should also tell you whether things are working as they should, if the chain and cogs are worn then the stroke will feel rough. That said they're pretty bulletproof and most things can be fixed fairly easily.

Well, as you just pointed out the C2 involves a lot of lower body movement that is not used in paddling. In fact the majority of power comes from the hip extensor Sand legs whereas paddling is more upper body.

There are adapters that can be used on the C2 to simulate paddling or kayaking:

http://www.paddlesporttraining.com

http://www.paddlesporttraining.com/kayak-paddling-adapter/
http://www.paddlesporttraining.com/canoe-paddling-adapter/

Hi,

Technique - Legs first arms towards the end. The best way to get the timing dialed in is to row with your feet not strapped in. If you use your arms too early you'll go flying off the back of the Erg.

Damper Setting - Make sure you Damper setting is around 120-140. The NZ Team always row at 130. Being smaller you may feel better at a lighter setting but higher rating.

Training - For a Lightweight AG I would guess getting below 7:00 for 2KM would be impressive enough and akin to a 4Wts/Kg. They have the Rankings on thier site. Check out the NZ times for the 1/2 Marathon and the Hour. They can hold 1:36 for 60 minutes! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOVmIrWZdWA

Injuries - Pretty hard to get injured unless of course you pass out with pain and fall off the machine (quite plausible).

Cheers.

For anyone interested, Concept2 have kindly created a Slowtwitch affiliation for their Logbook site at my request. If you choose, you can affiliate yourself with this virtual squad and compare times, etc. with other Slowtwitch Concept2 indoor rowers.

*Edited for a typo!

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Hey, how do we participate in that?

OK, today during a 90 min weight workout I had 3 stops at the Concept2....3000m, 2000m and 1500m. For the 2000m the middle 1000m was timed. Same thing for the 1500m. I did the first timed 1000m in 3:48 working pretty hard but keeping things in reserve. I started at a conservative 1:58 pace and built up the pace to 1:50. The second 1000m, I started at 1:55, built up to 1:50 and then closed the last minute at around 1:48 and hit a 1000m PB.

What do you do you guys think I need to hold for 1000m to try for 7:30 at 2000m. I want to give the 2000m a shot by the end of the year and want to build up to some key 500m and 1000m metrics.

By the way, I was at a hotel in Toronto for work this week and they had a Concept2 (no, it isi not a coincidence that they had one, i spotted it on the gym image on Expedia and since it was both close to three of my meetings and the University of Toronto 50m, pool, I magically ended up at this hotel....priorities....). OK, so there was no one in the gym other than me and so I took off my shirt and found that I could sustain a much higher effort than at the gym in Ottawa (obviously not allowed to workout without a shirt)....just having my bare body moving back and forth through around 1 meter per second of "self generated wind' provided a lot of cooling. When I do intervals on the trainer or treadmill I always have the fan on, but never had fan access at the Concept2.

Do you guys use fans for cooling?

There is no way at 7:00 for 2K is 4W per kilo. I just did 3:42 for 1000m or 1:51 per 500m and if you plug that number in, to this:

http://www.concept2.com/...ors/watts-calculator


you get 256W.


I weighed myself in today and was 63.5 kilos, so 256/63.5 = 4.03W per kilo.


Now fair enough some guy who weighs in at 84 kilos will do the same pace and get a watts per kilo of 3W per kilo yet him and I get the exact same time....he just has more kilos to move the boat. I think all you can say is that 7:00 pace for 2000m is 302W based on the concept 2 calculator. You can't make any inference on watts per kilo, because this might be a 55 kilo woman doing it or a 110 kilo linebacker/rugby player doing the exact same pace. Clearly the 55 kilo athlete cranking out at 5.45W per kilo is much more impressive!!!


In any case, never say never as I have done bike TT's at 300W for 15 minutes so maybe 330W for 7.00 minutes is possible...derate that for rowing being lower watts vs cycling and 300W for 7 minutes may be in the realm of possibility down the line. Let's see, but I think that would be a multi year project. First I would have to just be able to go at 1:45 for 1 minute which currently is no where close to possible. I can barely hold 1:45 for 20 seconds!!!!

how much of rowing fitness will transfer over to the bike for base training? long winters suck, and i have been debating picking up a rower just to break up the monotony of the trainer through the winter as something different to do.