You guys may make me change my handle to Tri-To-Row-dev LOL. I actually reached out to one of my customers who, before here govt career won a silver in the women's 8's in Atlanta for Canada. She's involved with one of the local rowing clubs and asked her if they have a learn to row program for old athletes that I could perhaps try this summer LOL!!! She has been really helpful to my company with various programs and contacts in the cleantech industry so it gives me a good reason talk to her on another personal level.

Dev,

I wouldn’t overthink the “I need to get to a certain erg speed to row” mentality. I can certainly appreciate not wanting to be an anchor in the boat but many rowers “outperform” their erg score on the water while many other “underperform” it. Once you feel comfortable with the flow/technique on the erg, go for it on the water. The additional technique required the row on the water will be a shock no matter your conditioning so just go in with a good attitude and have fun.

 Like a few others in this thread, I am integrating the erg rower into my training. I also started the learn to row class at a local club. Maybe your schedule doesn’t allow for a multi- weekend learn to row class, but if the opportunity arises, do try to get into a scull boat. I’ve only been on the water about 4 times, but noticed a big difference in how I use the erg machine even after 1 session on the water. (Legs legs legs!)

It’s fascinating how much swimming and sculling relate to each other. Oar (hand) entry, pushing the water away, fluid and steady movements (kick), not stopping and starting the boat (body), the power is at at the beginning of the catch...

And yes, I have already dropped an oar and took a swim. It was super- windy, not ideal for even very experienced rowers, and we still had to go out in the next level up boat. It was ugly. But my tri OWS experience came in handy!

Thanks for the great thread and advice here. I overlapped masters team rowing with triathlon for a couple seasons and found training for the two sports to be complimentary. After dropping rowing to focus on IMs the past several years, I added masters rowing back into the mix this season until the next IM peak volume block. It's great to have another enjoyable cross-training tool available to pull out when you need it and to increase the fun factor. Hope you enjoy!

Thanks guys, I have started looking into the local learn to row offerings at the clubs to see if I can learn to get on water. Just like I am enjoying swimming IM (no matter how badly I suck relative to real swimmers), I will likely enjoy a new skill.

To DFW's point, I think if I am just rowing on my own no matter how bad, I am OK with that (like coming in last place in my age group at IM at a masters meet). But when I am on a relay team, I want my proficiency level to be higher to add value to the team.

Just out of curiosity today as part of a 3x1500m row, I did the following during a weights circuit in the gym with a stop at the rowing machine:

1500m, no straps on feet, 2:05 to 2:15 pace per 500m
1500m, first 1000m same as above, final 500m straps on 1:55 pace
1500m, 250m easy, 1000m in 3:50, 250m cool down

I think I am getting the hang of things. 1:55 pace though feel sustainable in a hard way for short duration....1:50 pace and everything is on fire

Then off to the pool 50 min swim with 400m free warmup, 2x200IM, 1x200m fly, 1x400m IM, 1x100m IM

I was really feeling the hard 1000m on the rower during the 200 fly and 400 IM...I had no legs left....my upper body was unaffected, which suggests to me I am using the legs correctly

I did the same workout as yesterday both in the gym and the pool, but this time for the final 1500m, I decided to try to hold 1:55 pace for 1500m (target 5:45). In any case I started off at 154 down to 1:50 and it did not feel crazy hard but I realized that it's just like running a mile at the track and the first quarter is always way too easy and I better dial it back so the next 500m I did it more like 1:55 to 1:59 (I think I saw 2:00 once) but like at the track suddenly 1:57 pace was feeling like 1:50 pace in the opening third so it was good I backed off. In the final 500m I was able to open up the tank and go at 1:55 down to 1:50 pace again. Tthe final time was 5:47 as I think I gave away too much time in the middle with this uneven pacing strategy. Right after that at the pool and did the same workout as yesterday and this time did not totally die during the 200 fly interval (2x200IM, 1x200 fly, 1x400 IM).

I started looking into the local learn to row programs. There is one in late May/Early June, 5 sessions on the water over 10 days or so that I will target assuming I don't do anything stupid and blow out body parts before (that's also why I backed off the middle third of today's interval as I did not want to do the final part in a fatigued state and have my form in the lumbar region break down).

I will gradually build up to a 2000m, but I think 7:40 is totally possible. 7:30 would be viable by end of year. 7:20 would be a different world but let's see. I am enjoying pushing myself on the erg just like pushing for swimming IM and fly training. The durations are nicely matched so I am training in similar intensity bands. I definitely don't feel like a triathlete training for these durations!!!!

I was actually planning on bumping this thread today as it was 2k day!
Sounds like you’re progressing and no doubt you would have gone under 5:45 with better pacing.
For me it was my first erg session in a bit over a week. Just started running again, so haven’t had any time or energy for the erg. Was feeling strong during the warmup, did 15 min gradually going from 2:20-1:55 and then decided what the heck, might as well go for sub 7. Started first 500 fast, just like you averaging 1:43. Calmed down a bit for the second 500 and did 1:46. Thought for a second ”man im gonna do this”, then halfway into the third 500 it came down hard. Third 500 1:48 and fourth 1:50 for 7:07.
I think if I want to have a chance I have to do more intervals at 1:45. Up until today I haven’t really touched that pace. I’ll try something like 20x30s on Friday, and build up to 500m intervals. Retest in 2-3w.
I probably only have one more legit shot at this because the tri season is creeping up here In Sweden, and I won’t have time for any extra training alongside tri.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

I have an idea for you. I assume the erg is at a gym with treadmill

• Erg easy 4 min at 2:10 min/500m pace
• Treadmil 4 min 6% grade at 8 mph
• Erg easy 4 min at 2:00 pace
• Treadmill 8 min 8 mph alternating 1 min 6-8% 1 min 0%
• Erg easy 4 min at 2:00 pace with short 10 second surges in last 2 minutes to 1:40
• Treadmill 4 min 8 mph zero percent, last 1 min 10%
• Rest 5 min
• Erg hard 2000m 6:59. Start first 1 min no faster than 1:50 pace, end last minute at 1:40

Total workout ~ 40 min with transitions and should be good tri specifc training too....if you have a pool in the same facility launch staight into a full blast 1500m swim to round out the hour of pain.

This! So pleased to notice this thread. I bought a Model D early in 2017 after my daughter was born, and I’d left my squad for obvious time constraint reasons. I used it a good bit up till I rejoined the squad late in ‘17. My 20 min best when not particularly fit was 7224m and my 5km PB was 19:59 (I’m 183cm and 82/83kg). I’m really keen to start using it again over NZ winter, especially as I broke my ankle during SwimRun Bay of Islands last week (but still finished haha). I’ve got a few weeks off while I visit family back in Scotland, but would like to use the rower to start rebuilding fitness until I can safely run again.

I still consider the machine a very long term family investment and as other have said, it’s bloody brutal. Keen to see this thread prosper.

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I'm into week 4 of 24 weeks IM training and enjoying my one row per week. It hurts places that swim/bike/run doesn't!

I'm starting back at it after 6/7 years off. Did a 7105m/30min piece this morning which felt good, but looked up my previous PB which was 8132m! Long way to go.

Keep at it and hope the recovery goes well.

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My race site: https://racesandplaces.wixsite.com/racesandplaces

I saw 5:45 and was thinking, dammit... he's just been going for a few weeks and he's already 10 secs faster than I ever was and nearly as quick as Lassi!

As regards prep workouts, a few that have worked well for 2ks

6*3 mins on/3 off - at goal 2k pace +2/3 secs per 500. Nasty one, makes grown men cry and puke.
8*500 on 90 secs rest at best average pace - should be close to 2k if not under
8*2:30 on/5:00 off at best pace
Billat intervals of sets of 10*(30 secs on / 30 off) on at 120% of 2k power, off at 50%)
2-3*1250 @ goal 2k pace or better - 7-10 mins rest between pieces.

These don't need to be done frequently - once a week really. Even at 2k pace, rowing energy contribution is still 75-80% aerobic.
Longer stuff builds the base fantastically - I have my college kids up around 2k pace or better twice a week for hard sessions, but they aren't fit and have only an 8 week term.

Lycka Till!

Thanks for this. I have been mainly doing 1000m, 1500m or 2000m at a time, never more but I am doing it as part of a circuit in the weight room as I want to "straighten out my body" in between. With your comment about it being mainly aerobic, I THINK the work I have been doing in my swim focus training for 200 fly, 100IM, 200IM and 400IM really translates well to the durations from an aerobic fitness. My main problem is that my aerobic capacity from swimming can cut cheques that my body can't cash (my cardio will basically break my body first right now). It is the classic problem that young swimmers face when they transition to running. I'm just an "old swimmer" trying to learn rowing, but coming in with good cardio fitness (vs having to build the cardio via rowing).

I have to say that all the advice you guys are providing is making this enjoyable. I will try some of these workouts. For the 6x3 min with 3 on, 3 off, is the goal 2K place +3 seconds the average for the entire 18 min duration? That seems really hard. Are you going at goal 2K pace for 3 min and then 2K pace +6 seconds for the next 3?

Glad to see we have a rowing convert in the making. Amazing sport - I miss it. Also its a sport that within 2-3 years if you took it seriously you could compete at a very high level. It's not like swimming where if you didn't do it as a kid you will never make it - its technical but learnable and knowing what a catch drive phase and recovery from your swimming will help alot. A couple of guys who learnt to row at uni with me (i started at school) have long since surpassed me and gone onto GB representation/henley wins.

So 6x 3on 3 off would be 3 min balls out then 3 min recovery aka get off stretch drink or just roll up and down the slide not doing much. Pace it right the first one will feel easy the second one you will start to wonder what you have got yourself into and by the fourth you will think you cant possibly finish and be swimming in lactic. Key is pushing hard in the 4th and 5th - anyone can do the last one.

2k pace + 3 sounds right for that workout. to give you an idea when you are properly conditioned a 5k test would only be about 2k+4 or 5 in terms of split.

Finally get down and get on the water. Its what its all about and the feeling of a boat moving well on flat water when the crew is on point is like nothing else in the world

The 6x3min sound like the set of 6x200m IM....I'll be doing that in the pool this afternoon. Thanks for the inputs. I am looking into the learn to row course. Maybe my wife will gift me that one for father's day (LOL, she knows better than to get me launched into a new sport, because I'll go nuts spending all kinds of money and time diving into the game....I just can't help myself when I get hooked). But I am assuming that rowing is less expensive than tri from the equipment side, because you're not really buying much equipment, just paying for club fees...the rest in terms of travel and events, well I assume it's an equally massive money pit?

Dev: Lincoln shot this ad with MegO (USA W2x: 6th in Rio, 2nd 2017 Worlds), at the Vancouver boathouse. That's out by you, right?

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no sponsors | no races | nothing to see here

That depends on how hooked you get, and if you want to own your equipment.

Boat: $US12000-$14000 (new)
Oars: $US600-$800
Club Dues: region dependent, <$1000/yr
Boat Storage: $300-600/yr
Boat Ins: $400/yr
Races: travel the sky's the limit; entries can go up to $140/event

ETA a shameless sales plug: my wife is selling a boat that would fit you (we just got new ones). $US6500.

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no sponsors | no races | nothing to see here

LOL...I have been selling off all my tri race gear and any excess physical assets at home to fund my startup (http://www.bluwave-ai.com)....every penny helps....not that it's that much in the context of funding a company, but every penny adds up. So not sure my wife would be thrilled about me forking out money on a boat when I have never got on water!!!! But hey if we hit some big customer contracts and I can actually start paying myself vs spending all my family money paying others (LOL), then if it still around then that would be interesting!!! I literally live 10 min drive from a bay in the Ottawa river that is totally protected like a flat lake with no current (at that point rivier is 6K across in width).

By the way, I am in Ottawa, so a continent away from Vancouver!

Gotcha. OK. There a lot of lightweight rowing at the Ottowa RC, etc.
Also, besides selling a boat, the wife is a PE who spec's PV. :)

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no sponsors | no races | nothing to see here

If I do right around 7 min for a 2k, what is reasonable to aim for in a 6k? 23?
And is it possible to improve with 2 sessions/week? Would be awesome to dip into mid 6’s

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

If trained: Target 6k split is 2k split +6”/500m

As far as improvement: that depends on your ambition.

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no sponsors | no races | nothing to see here

@lazydoc is correct - 2k+3 for the on bit, recovery for the off bit.
It is a hard enough session at 2k+3. If it could be done at 2k par for 3 mins then 2k+3 for ‘recovery’, the athlete’s 2k needs a revisiting!

I’ve seen this session make (at the time) the two fastest scullers in history throw up after 4 sets because they were over-egging it. They then kept going, pukiing after 5 and 6.

OK so let me try to put this in runner terms that more of us on ST will understand.

This would be like a set of doing 800m on the track.

For each 800m each 400m would be run at 3 second slower per lap (so 6 second slower per 800m) than my full on 1 mile race pace (closest to 2000m row). After each 800m jog for 3 min and repeat.

Oscaro, I have a workout for you.....3 min row at 3s slower per 500m than your 1:45 per 500m 2000m pace....3 min jogging on treadmill in between....repeat 6 times. This way you'll get your tri training in too!!!! (you could bring the Erg and place it beside the track LOL)

I’m very new to the erg and on the water rowing, but have noticed a bad habit on the erg that is an issue in the boat. Let me see if I can explain...
When I am at the finish on the erg, I’m doing this weird little bounce with my legs. My rear end isn’t coming off the seat, but there’s a kind of bounce in my knees. On the water, this makes the boat lurch... not good.
I’ve got a dozen other technical things going on, but as a newbie, I’ll start with any advice on how to fix this excess knee motion at the finish on the erg.

I reckon that's your psoas loosening off as you finish the drive and start the recovery.

Perhaps look at seeeing if you can do some erg work with no straps on your feet and see how long you can push through your feet.

I think you nailed it there WRT to the psoas lengthening from the contracted position. My left one is actually very limited from my 2011 bike crash (long story) and 2015 disc injury (root cause in my view is actually the shortened psoas from 2011). My left leg literally jumps off the platform at the end and the straps come loose on me, and it was the suggestion by Phillyx to row without straps on that is really helping things to the point that I can now apply full power with my left leg and it does not want to jump off the platform at the end. I also have this problem with biking, running and walking at the end of my "down stroke" (or leg extension behind my back) which is why I can't do these properly. I think the rowing without the straps is helping my biomechanical issue.