No dog in this hunt... never owned a TriRig product.

I've always been impressed with the TR designs but the execution and "engineering" has left me scratching my head. If I remember correctly, their stem was originally cast which is just scary. So while it appears that they could benefit from improving their customer interactions, I would think they could also benefit from better/more engineering rigor.

I'm also curious of the overall volume that TR produces. Three failures in a thousand seems normal(?), but if he only makes fifty units and ten fail, then it's a lot worse.

Also, I'm assuming he uses overseas factories for his CF molding? I don't know too much about his stuff, but bootstrapping a company like his is no cheap matter. Maybe find a different maker for your stuff.

All that being said, I commend him for even commenting on his products in this forum. Every word he types is potential fuel for a lawsuit against his company, and he's risking that to try and sort through these issues. His responses seem on par with other engineers I've interacted with through the years, so I'm not expecting warm fuzzies when I tell him there's a problem with his product.

...Best of luck to him, and I hope everyone gets their issues sorted out.

It's actually kind of crazy how many people have hit me up privately on ST and outside of ST about this thread. All sharing similar product failure stories. A lot of them around the OG Sigma (but also the Alpha C and X). Same thing each time. Stem snaps, rider goes down. Subsequent interaction with Nick is anything but positive. Rider/customer goes in another direction.

I think it's pretty unanimous that he designs great products. But from a number of conversations I've had in private - one specifically with someone who has 20+ years of experience with product development and testing and has used TriRig products - it seem's pretty clear he still doesn't understand that side of the business. Or refuses to devote enough time to it - in his quest for making arbitrarily lightweight products. That, in addition to what we all seem to already know - that he sucks at customer service.

So in addition to what James details above, I'd say not necessarily heavier construction - but just more rigorous testing. And then iterating from there to ensure adequate product safety. I don't think anyone would disagree that if a product needs to be heavier to ensure it's safer, we'd take that trade all day.

That still wouldn't change my opinion of him or his products though. He's shown his cards from that perspective already. I don't care to support someone like that. Safe products or not.

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"One Line Robert"

Can you post an abbreviated compilation of these failures and interactions? it might be nice to have it all in one spot.

It's everything thats already been detailed. The below is everything that I've personally heard. But it seems others who've commented have additional/different issues.

• Alpha C - stem clamp junction crushes/snaps
• Alpha X - extensions slip when properly torqued (again, this is all I've heard around the X but from comments here, it seems theres more issues)
• Sigma - snaps in half (this was the OG Sigma - the redesign version can't be purchased)
• Beta - snaps in half
• Omega - lever arm snaps (the two stories I've heard on this issue were detailed via PM in reply to this thread, and were the original Omega)

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"One Line Robert"

No that guy was a moron who was watching a movie while autopilot was on. I have a Tesla, I'm not speaking from 3rd party knowledge, I know what the car can do and what it can't and on top of that autopilot is in beta. There is a pressure sensor built into the wheel because your supposed to keep your hands on the wheel and be prepared to take over at an instance. Every time you initiate autopilot it warns you to be prepared to take over. If that guy was watching the road instead of watching the movie, he would be alive today. Is the Tesla perfect no, but that guy shares the majority of the blame for that accident.

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ishi no ue ni san nen | Perseverance will win in the end. | Blog | @nebmot | Strava | Instagram |

From my understanding the original Sigma had issues, but were recalled and replaced with an updated version (xf, etc) - so the one's currently available are a-ok, correct? (at least to my knowledge...and since I'm using one on my track bike I'd like to be sure)I have not heard any issues since the recall.

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My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

I do know that the latest CF sigmas are not available. It says "coming soon" on the site.

That stem does strike me as an odd choice for a track bike though. If I were looking for an aftermarket stem for a track bike cable management and weight would be quite low on the list. Strength/durability would be my top concern.

Good question.

The people who've reached out to me that I don't actually know personally haven't detailed explicitly. But I know my immediate friends who's sigma snapped were owners of the original. They of course no longer use any version of the stem.

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"One Line Robert"

I'm in the industry. You don't release beta software on something that can kill it's occupant and people around it. You just don't. And you don't use stereo vision as a standalone sensor for obstacle avoidance. Ever. If I'd been an engineer on that thing, I'd have quit and run far, far away. Someone was going to die, almost inevitably.

Yeah, users are stupid. That's why "human factors" is part of the engineering discipline. You factor the inevitability of stupidity into design. And in the engineering fault tree that takes stupidity into account, you fail to something that doesn't involve the probability into plowing into a bus full of children and nuns. You fail to "safe." As autonomous systems start to encroach into our daily lives, reliable means of measuring human compliance and reliability as backup is part of the engineering process. Throwing a "pressure sensor" at it and calling it good isn't going to get it done. If drunk/asleep/dumb drivers dramatically compromise the safety of autonomous driving modes it defeats the entire premise of safety behind the concept which is that they protect everyone from dumb drivers in the first place.

I can go on for pages.

interesting, I didn't notice "they" removed the "original" sigma from the site. (edit: N35 is still listed under "misc" xf is sold out)

Yeah, my track bike is my old tt bike (p3sl) so most parts are just what was on it when it was on the road.

Fwiw I've had the Sigma on there for a couple of years and have no complaints. Use Omega's (all generations) on all my tt rigs and think they are excellent aero brakes (full disclosure)

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My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

Agreed, I barely use autopilot, cause 1. I like to drive and 2. the car has done things that I wasn't intending it to do while following the lines in the road, however that was before update to 8.0. I think for long driving like from LA to San Fran its good, as long as you are still engaged with the car, as for daily driving, no. I've seen all the videos with the guy reading the news paper, or the guy crawling into the backseat those people are morons and are endangering themselves and the people around them.

I think autopilot will be solid when cars have a line of sight communication system to allow your car to "talk" to the cars around it. That will allow another layer over the radar that its using now, but this is completely off topic.

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ishi no ue ni san nen | Perseverance will win in the end. | Blog | @nebmot | Strava | Instagram |

this thread has turned into a opinion piece on Tririg's customer service or products other than the one posted about which is fine but I would still like some information about the Beta so I can make an informed decision on whether I can safely install and use it.



Will the OP please step up??????

TR responded to the OP post, and indicated that the design for the Beta was changing to a different design. IDK if TR will be honoring any exchange requests from the previous design that requires users to fill the empty holes with extra screws.

TL;DR: Beta design is changing, might be best to wait a bit before buying.

I already bought but have not yet installed. I wrote to Nick and his response was that product is safe with holes plugged and he would send me additional plugging nuts that didn't come with the original product. So, no there is no exchange or refund

Unfortunately, I have to confirm that Nick's customer service skills leave much to be desired. I bought a SV brake from him without realizing that it will not work with a single bolt mount. It was on clearance with a stated no returns policy, so yeah - I was being a dumbass, but still a paying dumbass probably ready to buy more shit from him in the future. I still asked him nicely if I can exchange it for a single bolt version and pay a restocking fee, and was told "too bad, so sad".

I still like this products, but this was not handled very well IMO. Not surprised that someone else came away pissed off.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

I'm an Industrial Designer, and not an engineer. However, I've also been a machinist for almost 20 years. I can say that the design for the mounting rod is scary.

After drilling and tapping holes in that rod, you end up with way too much material removed for it to be viable given the amount of impact and vibration it'll encounter during a ride. Filling the empty holes with screws will eliminate some of the flex, but it won't fix the fact that you've removed almost 60% of the material from the shaft's cross section.

If it was a solid rod with a clamp-style collar for mounting the cages, then maybe it wold be stronger.

Hence, my concern.

That's a shitty response. He's a one man operation, he could have cut you some slack.

I'm going to add one last little dissertation on TriRig (*serious face*), after which I won't mention this company or person again. I trust this falls within the bounds of approved discourse.

My experience with TriRig products is extensive. Since the fall of 2014, I have picked up: Alpha C (2) / Alpha C replacement (1); alpha C BTA jawns (3); gamma extension sets (3); sigma OG (3); Omega OG (4), Omega X (3); and kappa cages (5). That I bought and continue to buy products is a testament to the unique problems they solve by their very conception. Sure, these are first world problems -- danging e-toobs are the sworn enemy of a true obsessive compulsive -- but they solve needs expressed on this board. In slowman's parlance, these goods are the work of a person whose ears are close to triathlon's tracks.

Of the 24 products I've purchased, two have failed (8%) -- one Omega snapped and one Alpha C cracked at the clamp. I now resent paying replacement fee for the Alpha C, which cost I only paid because I felt, or was made to feel, that it was my fault by the only person who knew that the onus should not have been on me. Besides that, I spent $350 on roundtrip airfare bringing a bike to California that I wasn't able to train on or ride while there, shop costs to make the swap (>$100), etc. And I just ate it.

When I heard of others with similar Alpha C failures thereafter and especially of Matt Hanson's problem -- well, the totality of that experience is the root of my original venom on this thread. Watching what happened to Hanson in Kona last year on the live broadcast, before I knew what had failed, made me just sick...the heart of an athlete breaks a thousand times over when you see that. The hearsay around the response Matt and his team/supporters received after the incident is just that, hearsay, but I would not surprised if what they heard was the response of someone who does not give a single fuck.

I suspect that 8% failure rate is representative for TriRig, though nobody knows for sure. I didn't even bother following up when my Omega snapped. In general, as consumers we need to decide whether we value the needs these products meet -- aerodynamics, weight, convenience/ease of use, bolt occlusion, whatever -- above the potential physical hazards, loss of the asset, etc., and just generally poor treatment in the follow up.

I have made that calculus and unlike Haycraft I will continue to buy these products as long as they solve problems that no other company can or will. They are worth it to me. I'd rather have a place to hide my Di2 junction box than have more than 92% confidence in a stem that makes me use a rubber band to strap the thing on the underside, e-tubes hanging all over the place. That shit is shameful. And what, I'm going to give up three watts to some second class peasant aero brake, or nearly as much to an IAx fork with no brake at all? Not happening. The hell if I'm going to take a dremel to a $60 bottle cage just because Candice can't read between the lines of BryanD's flattery and give us a product that solves a minor but important equipment wish. The Alpha X tilt kit fails, but at least we got one. Where are the big boys on this one? Have they not read Jim@ERO's blog post?

Notwithstanding the foregoing, I won't buy an Omni because I simply don't have that kind of money to be dicked out of. Folks have mentioned Trek stems snapping -- yes, it happens! -- but I have full faith and knowledge that if a single thing happens to a Speed Concept they'll support you entirely through their dealer network. I just can't take the risk on something worth more than $4k. If I were cash flowing like my orthodontist I'd have picked one up already.

Your mileage may vary, and all that.

Edit for 'brevity'

Remind me what your issue is with the XLAB cages?

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Alex, I think I remember reading that particular exchange of comments on his Facebook site. I remember thinking it was completely and utterly your fault. Just my opinion, of course.

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´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX

His Re-Stocking are ridiculous...I'm sorry are we purchasing products from Service Merchandise in 1985?????

This is true, I've been through it with my SC a few times, and the support is amazing.
I don't necessarily agree with torpedoing a guys company here......but these things do of course make me pause when thinking about buying from a boutique company (including Ventum, Dimond, etc). You lose that wonderful LBS support you get with the big boys. Another great example is Cervelo showing up at the big races and tuning/repairing everyone's bike for free (well, at least at IMMT).

Well, hope Tririg gets things sorted, some cool products.....but the Omni is probably off the list... :( (do any exist yet???)...

Of course, it was my fault. Did I not say it? Just in case - "I was being a dumbass, but still a paying dumbass probably ready to buy more shit from him in the future".

Could he have handled it better from the CS perspective? I think so.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment