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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [RestwiseMan] [ In reply to ]
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Glad you made an appearance here, I have a question for you:


What is the reason for measuring O2 saturation everyday? I couldn't find ANYTHING about measuring O2 saturation in the (extensive) literature pertaining overtraining.


Thanks!

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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [adal] [ In reply to ]
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adal wrote:
For me the 50min time trial result seems strong, even for a pro triathlete, not to mention an age grouper.

Some people seem to be caught up on the AG vs pro thing. Let's be clear, Sami is an AG athlete simply because he refuses to take/accept his pro card. IOW, it's a moot issue.
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [RestwiseMan] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks RestwiseMan. Very interesting background.
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Re: Training thoughts by AG Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [mungub50] [ In reply to ]
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mungub50 wrote:
Thoughts? I'm curious if he has tried the high training load approach before, but found more success with this.

Congratulations to Sami on an incredible year of racing.

http://samiinkinen.tumblr.com/...rets#permalink-notes

Are you people delusional.

The guy got chicked. He finished outside 10% of the winner.

I'm stoked if he's stoked. It's great if he's content with his performance and proud of what he's achieved.

To "judge" performances and training programs (or supplements, oh please) smarter coaches use more than finish times. you look at the history, the genetic attributes etc...

For all we know, his result could have been an underperformance by half an hour or so.
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [tridoc3] [ In reply to ]
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tridoc3 wrote:
Some of it sounds good, but by the time I got halfway through, it reads like an internet get rich scam.
Haha I kept waiting for the "for the low price of $$$$$ we will not only throw in xxxxx but xxxxxx also :0)
I did not read anything about day to day nutrition. Wonder how that is?

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Re: Training thoughts by AG Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [trifaster] [ In reply to ]
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Dont know if anyone pointed this out but a reason that Sami doesnt get burned out, sick or injured is that he doesnt feel the need to train 20 hours/week.
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [bmanners] [ In reply to ]
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bmanners wrote:
tridoc3 wrote:
Some of it sounds good, but by the time I got halfway through, it reads like an internet get rich scam.

Haha I kept waiting for the "for the low price of $$$$$ we will not only throw in xxxxx but xxxxxx also :0)
I did not read anything about day to day nutrition. Wonder how that is?

To his credit, he didn't throw that in though.

Don't hate on the guy just for putting out some useful info about his training plan. While there's definitely some "this low volume thing may work for you" in there, despite the fact that I'm pretty sure that for the vast majority of triathletes, going this route would equal subpar race results, I've got loads of respect for the guy, his results, and his willingness to put his info out there for us to appreciate (and critique).

Good stuff, and good evidence to show that these type of performances are possible on reasonable schedules, even if you need tons of genetics to do it.
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
bmanners wrote:
tridoc3 wrote:
Some of it sounds good, but by the time I got halfway through, it reads like an internet get rich scam.

Haha I kept waiting for the "for the low price of $$$$$ we will not only throw in xxxxx but xxxxxx also :0)
I did not read anything about day to day nutrition. Wonder how that is?


To his credit, he didn't throw that in though.

Don't hate on the guy just for putting out some useful info about his training plan. While there's definitely some "this low volume thing may work for you" in there, despite the fact that I'm pretty sure that for the vast majority of triathletes, going this route would equal subpar race results, I've got loads of respect for the guy, his results, and his willingness to put his info out there for us to appreciate (and critique).

Good stuff, and good evidence to show that these type of performances are possible on reasonable schedules, even if you need tons of genetics to do it.

I think the other point of this was that this was put on his blog, for his readers. Matt Dixon tweeted it, someone posted it here. It is not like he was trying to go for a wide distribution. I think it is funny that people have latched onto this as a shill.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [Paulo Sousa] [ In reply to ]
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Paulo Sousa wrote:
Glad you made an appearance here, I have a question for you:


What is the reason for measuring O2 saturation everyday? I couldn't find ANYTHING about measuring O2 saturation in the (extensive) literature pertaining overtraining.


Thanks!

Fantastic question. In short, there is zero demonstrated correlation between compromised SPo2 and over-training. Which begs the question: why do we include it in our list of tracked markers? Four reasons, of admittedly varying validity...

1) Tracking SPo2 can be an "early warning system" for low-grade anemia. We know that a "normal" SP02 reading is above 95%. Anything below 95% when measured at your fully acclimatized altitude indicates that something is wrong. We don't know what that "something" may be, but it is a data point worth knowing. As an example, this scenario played out for five international-caliber athletes, all cyclists, and all women. Prior to use Restwise (warning: shameless sales pitch ahead!) each had requested a complete blood workup due to a sense that their RPE relative to output was not as it had been, nor as it should be. The blood workups all came back "normal". When the athletes later returned to their doctors with several week's worth of SPo2 data, a more "precise" (whatever that means?) workup was ordered and they were discovered to be iron deficient. Personally, this sounds like poor medicine rather than a justification for including Spo2 in our tool, but it was certainly interesting... and earned the gratitude of these athletes.

2) Training at altitude. With the increased popularity of altitude-based training camps (without commenting on the efficacy of them, just noting that they have become more popular), many people are entering a high-stress environment in which their body's natural recovery capacity is negatively impacted. Tracking SPo2 can be a useful tool to ensure that an athlete doesn't overload his/her system before he/she has adapted to the altitude. The GB triathlon team did an altitude camp in St. Moritz, and used SPo2 extensively to monitor athletes and make small modifications in training load. Simon Lessing, who is a Restwise user, had several interesting comments about the rate at which he acclimated vs. some of the other athletes, and specifically mentioned SP02 as a valuable reference point.

3) Some literature suggests that pre-symptomatic bronchitis manifests itself first through compromised SPo2, as inflamed bronchial passages constrict before mucus is released via coughing. Although this should be referred to a medical doctor for confirmation and diagnosis, we recommend that if and athlete is experiencing a URTI accompanied by a drop in SPo2, they refrain from doing any intensity which might trigger a more problematic bronchial condition. Again, this is at best a guideline rather than a scientifically supported fact, but one that might be helpful for those athletes who like to "train through a cold".

4) This one is a bit of a "toss it into the mix" answer, but one of the reasons we are tracking it is because it comes built into the pulse oximeter... and we find the pulse oximeter is by far the easiest way to capture resting heart rate. We also plan to do a fair amount of data analysis on this marker, just looking for correlations. As you point out, there is no evidence that SPo2 is in any way correlated to OTS. However, it is also true that very little research has been done on the marker. It may be that, by aggregating millions of data points on a variety of markers, and then running analytics that might identify patterns, that we can highlight areas of research worthy of pursuit. This is definitely a "pie in the sky" reason to track the marker, but... wouldn't it be cool if we identified something of true value for the endurance community? After all, cortisone is a known corrosive to recovery - perhaps there are some unexpected, downstream, consequences to over-reaching that effect the oxygen-carrying capacity of an athlete's blood!

There you have it: four reasons to track SPo2, none of which relate to over-training. Feel free to form your own conclusions as to whether or not we should include the marker in our algorithm. But you should also know that the marker's weighting is quite low, that it only triggers when the athlete records below "normal" (95%), and that you can choose not to enter it at all... the algorithm automatically adjusts the other marker's weightings.

Hope that helps understand this particular marker, and thanks for flagging the one point in our system which is, admittedly, pretty darn opaque.

Matthew
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
bmanners wrote:
tridoc3 wrote:
Some of it sounds good, but by the time I got halfway through, it reads like an internet get rich scam.

Haha I kept waiting for the "for the low price of $$$$$ we will not only throw in xxxxx but xxxxxx also :0)
I did not read anything about day to day nutrition. Wonder how that is?

To his credit, he didn't throw that in though.

Don't hate on the guy just for putting out some useful info about his training plan. While there's definitely some "this low volume thing may work for you" in there, despite the fact that I'm pretty sure that for the vast majority of triathletes, going this route would equal subpar race results, I've got loads of respect for the guy, his results, and his willingness to put his info out there for us to appreciate (and critique).

Good stuff, and good evidence to show that these type of performances are possible on reasonable schedules, even if you need tons of genetics to do it.
Not hating on anyone. I would really like to know if his diet was part of the major break through.

__________________________________________________
Official Polar Ambassador
http://www.google.com/...P7RiWyEVwpunlsc2JtQQ
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I have respect for his performances, but honestly his post is a little irresponsible at the same time. It's analogous to a student with a photographic memory telling his struggling friend why are you studying so hard. I get straight A's with almost no work.
He should put a dislaimer at the end of the post, like I'm genetically gifted and your results may vary. Trust fund babies wondering why hard working people have trouble making ends meet. A little institive to majority of us who need to bust our butts to do well.
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [tridoc3] [ In reply to ]
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tridoc3 wrote:
I have respect for his performances, but honestly his post is a little irresponsible at the same time. It's analogous to a student with a photographic memory telling his struggling friend why are you studying so hard. I get straight A's with almost no work.
He should put a dislaimer at the end of the post, like I'm genetically gifted and your results may vary. Trust fund babies wondering why hard working people have trouble making ends meet. A little institive to majority of us who need to bust our butts to do well.

I am hoping that you forgot the pink font. If not I would like to nominate your reply has the most unintentional yet hilarious post of the year.

Irresponsible? I laughed so hard I woke the dog.

-- Aaron Davidson
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [tridoc3] [ In reply to ]
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tridoc3 wrote:
I have respect for his performances, but honestly his post is a little irresponsible at the same time. It's analogous to a student with a photographic memory telling his struggling friend why are you studying so hard. I get straight A's with almost no work.
He should put a dislaimer at the end of the post, like I'm genetically gifted and your results may vary. Trust fund babies wondering why hard working people have trouble making ends meet. A little institive to majority of us who need to bust our butts to do well.

We should protest in front of his house with signs that say "we are the 99%"

I'm not nearly as fast or as gifted as Sami, but I don't need a disclaimer because luckily I'm not a farking moran.
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [eganski] [ In reply to ]
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post of the day.
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Re: Training thoughts by AG Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [mungub50] [ In reply to ]
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I mentioned earlier that I asked Sami to come join the conversation....here was his response:

Sami Inkinen "I'm sure entertaining; but I'll leave the endless debate for others. I'm too busy executing :)"


-------------------------------
I'm faster in Kilometers!
Wattie Ink Triathlon Team
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [bmanners] [ In reply to ]
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bmanners wrote:
lightheir wrote:
bmanners wrote:
tridoc3 wrote:
Some of it sounds good, but by the time I got halfway through, it reads like an internet get rich scam.

Haha I kept waiting for the "for the low price of $$$$$ we will not only throw in xxxxx but xxxxxx also :0)
I did not read anything about day to day nutrition. Wonder how that is?


To his credit, he didn't throw that in though.

Don't hate on the guy just for putting out some useful info about his training plan. While there's definitely some "this low volume thing may work for you" in there, despite the fact that I'm pretty sure that for the vast majority of triathletes, going this route would equal subpar race results, I've got loads of respect for the guy, his results, and his willingness to put his info out there for us to appreciate (and critique).

Good stuff, and good evidence to show that these type of performances are possible on reasonable schedules, even if you need tons of genetics to do it.

Not hating on anyone. I would really like to know if his diet was part of the major break through.

He eats reindeer like we all do here in Finland. (do I need to highlight this with some colour font?)
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [aquaterra] [ In reply to ]
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The guy didn't start from scratch 8 years ago, just not possible. Here's his athlinks results http://athlinks.com/racer/results/56506959. A 38 minute 10k and a 1:22 half are hardly "beginner" like times. The guy was definitely already running, probably for several years, before getting into triathlon, otherwise, yes, this guy is a genetic freak of nature.
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [z2009] [ In reply to ]
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Does it matter?

He's been in sport a long time or he hasn't.

he trains 12 hours a week and is a freak and could go faster if he trained more - or he lies and trains more and is as fast as he can get.

He takes snake oil or he doesn't.


The fact is - he's a fast age grouper - most likely has the potential to be faster.

My take away is this:
If I want a bowl in 2012 - I need to kick his ass (or others like him) and I can't do that if I'm too busy debating fact from fiction. I need to Ride my bike. More.
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [sentania] [ In reply to ]
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Actually....THAT was the post of the day.....;)


-------------------------------
I'm faster in Kilometers!
Wattie Ink Triathlon Team
Powered by Accelerate 3
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [aquaterra] [ In reply to ]
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aquaterra wrote:
bmanners wrote:
lightheir wrote:
bmanners wrote:
tridoc3 wrote:
Some of it sounds good, but by the time I got halfway through, it reads like an internet get rich scam.

Haha I kept waiting for the "for the low price of $$$$$ we will not only throw in xxxxx but xxxxxx also :0)
I did not read anything about day to day nutrition. Wonder how that is?


To his credit, he didn't throw that in though.

Don't hate on the guy just for putting out some useful info about his training plan. While there's definitely some "this low volume thing may work for you" in there, despite the fact that I'm pretty sure that for the vast majority of triathletes, going this route would equal subpar race results, I've got loads of respect for the guy, his results, and his willingness to put his info out there for us to appreciate (and critique).

Good stuff, and good evidence to show that these type of performances are possible on reasonable schedules, even if you need tons of genetics to do it.

Not hating on anyone. I would really like to know if his diet was part of the major break through.

He eats reindeer like we all do here in Finland. (do I need to highlight this with some colour font?)
What do I tell my kids now Sami ate Eodulph :0) still would like to know

__________________________________________________
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http://www.google.com/...P7RiWyEVwpunlsc2JtQQ
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [sentania] [ In reply to ]
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sentania wrote:
Does it matter?

He's been in sport a long time or he hasn't.

he trains 12 hours a week and is a freak and could go faster if he trained more - or he lies and trains more and is as fast as he can get.

He takes snake oil or he doesn't.


The fact is - he's a fast age grouper - most likely has the potential to be faster.

My take away is this:
If I want a bowl in 2012 - I need to kick his ass (or others like him) and I can't do that if I'm too busy debating fact from fiction. I need to Ride my bike. More.

wait....are you saying if I want to beat folks currenlty beating me, I must outwork them?......

Thats not fair....I want to go 9:00 on 12 hours a week.

(pink)
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [sentania] [ In reply to ]
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Does it matter?

He's been in sport a long time or he hasn't.

he trains 12 hours a week and is a freak and could go faster if he trained more - or he lies and trains more and is as fast as he can get.

He takes snake oil or he doesn't.


The fact is - he's a fast age grouper - most likely has the potential to be faster.

My take away is this:
If I want a bowl in 2012 - I need to kick his ass (or others like him) and I can't do that if I'm too busy debating fact from fiction. I need to Ride my bike. More.

Bingo

The blunt honest truth. Well said.

Some here are incredulous that some guy could train 12 hrs/week and go 9:00 - but who cares. He can and he did!


Coach Chuckie V also wrote a blog a while ago where he said many people could at their athletic peak go 9:30 for an IM. Many would dismiss this as complete BS!



Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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There is a guy at Boulder Center for Sports Medicine who raced as a pro Triathlete for many years (5-8?). After a test
at where I documented my extremely average power and VO2 to three decimal points, I had a consult with him. When I said
'I'll never be really fast because I can't train 20 hours a week', he broke out his training log.


He very rarely broke 10 hours a week for his training, and I saw his charts for years as a license carrying pro (albeit not a major race winner).


I think there are the blessed few who are born with a massive engine... but I suspect that many of these 'low volume' trainers are
going way deep in the pain cave on intervals.


Doing an hour of intervals where you spend 40 minutes deep in the red is probably a lot more effective than my strategy of brushing up
against the redline a few times, pulling the plug on the last one, and telling myself I deserve a few beers.

.

" I take my gear out of my car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of of their lives shocks me. "
(opening lines from Tim Krabbe's The Rider , 1978
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [TriDevilDog] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Training thoughts by Kona runner up Sami Inkinen [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, he did it but let's not be naive here. There was specific intent behind the article and the implication is rather obvious. To a certain degree, I found it rather disappointing and had much higher expectations from the content when it was brought to my attention a few days ago. For example, the simple fact that he changed his protocol could account for the improvement this year. Nothing more, nothing less...
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