You cannot wait until the end and then determine whether those 17 seconds made a difference by doing simple math. 17 more seconds TODAY makes a difference in how they will ride tomorrow, the next day...and the next. The next few days are so-called "easy" days so the effect of burning that match will be significantly mitigated.

Also, just as with the AC/Vino situation, its unlikely LA and RS had the situation exactly pegged during the race. LA had to ride hard, period. The race was going away, with or without his team.

People also made too much of RS's "failure". They were at the front according to the coverages I followed. So was Frank Schleck. Schleck went down and A LOT of tactics went out the window. Lance would have been fine had he not flatted. The only thing that is curious at all is that it took RS so long to regroup and get back. Then again...it seems like they were doing just that and just ran out of race. The only real "failure" and/or weak spot I saw was Popo not being able to bury himself and ride Lance back up to AC. That was surprising.

So does anyone know where Levi/Horner/Kloden came in? Velonews didnt seem to have any idea where they were when Lance was chasing back.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

It's a bit futile trying to educate triathletes on cycling. The "culture" between the two sports couldn't be more different.

I felt bad for Chavanel today. Too many punctures. I was hoping to see him ride yellow to the mountains.

I would love to see Lance's power readings from that last 15km. I imagine he was putting out one of the fastest times in the final stretch there and most of that was all alone and inhaling a constant plume of dust.

I know that today wasn't Lance's best ride, it wasn't "epic" like some of his others, but I can't get over that he can do that at 39. Will we even remember Contator's name in another 10 years? Who knows, but if he is out on the Tour running guys down like that I will start giving him mad props

I understand the point you're making and have heard this kind of thing before, but I guess I'm always skeptical about how big an impact those kind of small time gaps really make. I think once the road goes up the riders just pretty much go and give it whatever they have and a lot of the tactical play we all like to salivate over really becomes somewhat moot. Otherwise I would have to believe they leave something on the road in those Mtn. stages if they have a lead or go harder if they have to make up gaps, and I just don't buy it.

I also don't think they were unaware of the fact that Lance had a sizable posse behind him to help. Although I do remember talk at one point about dropping the rider radios in the Tour. Has that happened? If so, I could see the confusion.

They ended up 17 seconds back. In the next group behind Lance.

According to JV, when the dust settles, AC will get the same time as Vino because he flatted in the last K. Vino is looking smarter if this is true, but I'm not sure it is?

That would be a first, I think. Flats aren't the same as field wrecks in a sprint. But I'm not sure of all the nuances regarding that ruling...so I suppose its possible.

I only thought that was the case if there was a wreck and not a mechanical. But I don't know for sure.

not sure why a mechanical problem would be any different with 1km to go as opposed to 40km to go, so I would be surprised if that was a rule. For those that are wondering why/how Lance got left out on his own. Levi, Lance an Kloedi all flatted. Seriously bad luck for RS today. Garmin yesterday, RS today. Bummer for American fans.

The crash happened at the front, so I'm not sure what different tactics could've been played. If it happened in the back third of the group, and RS/LA were caught out, that would be a much bigger tactical error.

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f/k/a mclamb6

Not true.

"Comme c’est le cas depuis 2005, en cas de chute dans les trois derniers kilomètres, les coureurs impliqués sont crédités du temps du groupe auquel ils appartenaient. Cette règle ne s’applique pas dans les étapes disputées en contre-la-montre et sur les arrivées au sommet d’une ascension."

From http://www.letour.fr

Applies to the last 3km, only when there s a crash...It says that if you crash within 3km of the finish, you get the same time as the group you were with at the moment of the crash. If the group breaks within the last 3km after you crashed, you get the time of the first rider afaik.

Exactly.

What if the gap back to the next group ended up being 90 seconds instead of 17?

At the end of the day, I'm pretty sure Lance will take any and every 5k effort where he can get 17 seconds. He caught them after around 5k solo, which really isn't too big of a deal on the grand scheme of things. It might be a difference of 5-10 TSS points, maybe.

Yes, we will. The guy won 4 grand tours already...And it's probably not over.

Although most Americans have ADD, and won't. Besides, when Lance retires for good, cycling will go back to America's neverland ;-)

Apparently, Phil Liggett's memory is failing too. A couple of days ago, he said 'just missing Jacques Anquetil. We have the exclusive club of the 5 times TdF winners here with Hinault and Merckx'...

"My thought, though, is that there's nothing wrong with a stage like today. In my mind, a complete rider is one who can time trial, ride one day classics and cobbles, and climb in the mountains. "

I don't think that losses today had anything to do with ability to ride on cobbles. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think there's an ability to ride on cobbles that prevents flats. I think what's disappointing to many is that a stage like this has a high likelihood of inducing mechanicals, and that's a disappointing way to lose time or possibly a tour. It's not really a result of lack of skill or fitness, it's a result of poor luck.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

laughed my ass out loud at Vino dropping contador... if anyone still chooses to ignore his history and thinks Vino is going to lay aside his own ambitions for anyone, they got yet another example today! Great ride by Vino today but unfortunately for AC it shows that Vino is strong and there is no way he'll sleep until he gets some stage wins and/or protection from the team for GC.

???

Vino isn't racing this year for the GC. Astana wants Vino 9 or more back, - that means that he's worked hard to put Contador there.

You think that your answer is the only one here?

Seems odd to me that they'd throw cobbles into a grand tour. It really increases the chance of something unlucky happening to a tour contender/leader and decreases their ability to respond if something unfortunate occurs. Team cars are scattered, teammates are scattered because or narrow roads and crashes and dealing with their own mechanical issues, leaders are driving on hard (obviously praying they don't flat) to hopefully avoid the carnage. 1 day of russian roulette shouldn't really be incorporated into a 21 day race IMO.

Yes one could say your team must ride at the very front but could you imagine the mayhem if all the teams battled for that spot on those roads? Basically a bunch sprint hitting the 10' wide cobble streets. Stupid.

Chavenel didn't deserve to lose yellow and lance didn't deserve to lose a couple minutes just because the roads are beating the snot out of the bikes (and tires)...stuff is almost guaranteed to break.

I can't see them doing this again in future TdFs.

You may want to read the thread and try a more educated comment.

That's what I heard in 2004 also.

well as many riders crashed out of the tour today as did during the prologue.

http://www.letour.fr/...IVE/us/abandons.html