Apologies,

I'm sorry, no, - i did not mean to reply to your comment, - but to the one about Vino racing for himself.

Cheers,

I think it all comes down to where the pave is in relation to the race. In todays stage, it was super critical to be at the front due to the fact that the last pave section was just 10km's from the finish. It was to be super important to be at the front because than your "safe" and your also controlling the pace. So what happens is that there is a super man rush to get to the front, and basically there is only so much room. So than a crash here or a flat there and your day is done as all your doing then is just chasing to limit loses.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

I was watching when a young Fignon was winning and my only source of information was getting L'equipe in Montreal 1 day after the stages were over, and buying Cyclisme Internationale 1 month later.

My commentary on today's thread is that Mr. Evans will find a way to blow his good lead. Every year, I have hoped that guy can close the deal and every year, he finds a way to lose it. He's like the Dan Marino of cycling for my American friends...great rating, can't win the big 3 week stage races...always a bad day or two. He's gotta be in the best position to make something good of this. Amazing what Lance was able to do in the face of an early defeat....but still, now AC just needs to sit in for the rest of the Tour and save his attacks for the absolute steepest grades where is 62 kilos give him that massive advantage.

Dev

But as in the other thread, you're wrong...

"In the event that a rider or riders suffer a
fall, puncture or mechanical incident in
the last 3 kilometres and such an incident
is duly recognised, the rider or riders involved
are credited with the same finishing
time of the rider or riders they were with at
the time of the incident. .... This
measure does not apply to:
• finishes of the prologue and 19th stage,
which are individual time trials;
• summit finishes of the 8th, 14th and17th
stages.


I'm guessing that Vaughters was looking at a more recent race bible than the one you quotes from 2005....

http://www.letour.fr/...E/docs/reglement.pdf

"On cobbles, if you ride in the gutter, like lance was, you are going to flat. "

Was he in the gutter when he flatted? I didn't see the flat, but he wasn't stuck in the gutter the rest of the time, and surely Armstrong knows cobbles well enough to know where to ride. I also read somewhere that the gutters are swept out in prep for the Tour riding through, so presumably less glass, litter, etc. I'm not sure if that's accurate or not.

Also, apparently Armstrong had to wait about 45secs for a new wheel. Seems like a long time wasted, but maybe just an issue of having flatted up front and having to wait for the car.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I think we can all stop wondering.. Contador said he had a mechanical with his back wheel for 30KMS!!!
Tough SOB!
http://astana.lu/news_x.php?ID_news=97

Fair enough. That said, it's not called a bible.

yeah he was riding in the gutter for quite some time before the inevitable happened.

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http://www.wandertechnologies.com

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CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK

I still don't know how or why people were saying prior to this tour that Cadel's season had not been that great...hopefully he'll be up there at the end. he might be the real threat to contador this year.

That's just stupid. Everyone that flatted should get a bonus then...

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f/k/a mclamb6

that sounds good when you say it, but in practicality the guys ride wherever its smoothest. Its like mountain biking. They're looking ahead and picking at lines as they go. Many times its smoother in the middle where cars haven't dug it out, or its less risky in the middle if the crowds on the side are too big. look at the photos from today's stage and you'll see pictures of both Thor & Cancellara riding in the gutter & they were clearly strongest today. if its smoother on the side, the smart riders will take advantage of it.

It saved him 17 seconds on the defending champion and favorite to repeat. I can't understand why you would question that.

The whole fucking point of the cobbles is to break up the groups and not have another boring procession and that is what we got, and it was fucking awesome.

and it isn't just luck. choosing where to put your wheels and what tires to use and practicing the cobbles dictates what is going to happen.

its not like this turned into a crapshoot.

look at the people who were at the front. Cancellara, Thor. exactly who you would expect! why? because they knew what they were doing.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I have no problem with having the cobblestones, but do you really think that LA didn't know where to ride? I mean Thor and Cancellara (not to mention Hesjedal, Schleck, etc. etc.) all spent significant amounts of times on the sides of the road, but didn't flat. There's a lot of luck involved.

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f/k/a mclamb6

I guess if he had one on his teamates with him they could have given him their front, but the Shack and Mr. Bruyneel did not seem to have it as figured out today as much as they thought they did.

Armstrong did a great ride to get back to that group to somewhat limit the damage.

Nobody has spoken about what a great ride Contador did in general and also straight after Franks crash Contador was quite a bit behind the Armstrong group, but Alberto rode himself back into it before Armstrong flatted. I think Andy and Alberto did great rides for being smaller pure climbers.

"Besides, when Lance retires for good, cycling will go back to America's neverland'

Not THIS "U.S.ican"! Cycling is still the one sport that really captures my imagination as a spectator.

Armstrong had to wait so long for a new wheel because he was up front and the support vehicles were all behind the main peloton group who were held up by the wreck. IIRC, he was originally in the front break before he flatted. Slowing for the flat and then 45 seconds for a wheel change....and he's suddenly behind AC. AND worse, two key RS lieutenants ALSO flatted. Just frappin' bad luck. Tactics? Out the window as soon as Schleck went down and split the field right in the midst of RS, Saxo and Astana on the front.

The guys who got away had the luck today...that's all.

I never said it was just luck? Reading comprehension ftl.

I'm just saying the cobbles and their placement on the route upped the "randomness" of the stage AND the entire grand tour by a significant amount. If cancellara had flatted at the front he wouldn't have been in the lead group - agree? He wouldn't have had any chance of being in the lead group whether he was strong today or not. Ergo - LUCK. You honestly think this is all about tire selection and uber precise line choosing? gtfo.

Ironically the rider who proved the most on the cobbles (because he had to) was armstrong.

[/quote]I have no problem with having the cobblestones, but do you really think that LA didn't know where to ride?

Thats why there are so many issues with the pave. It's almost like drafting in IM events that courses arent setup to hold the number of racers. It just is what it is. With pave, there is going to be crashes/flats. You just hope its him and not you.

It's almost like a mass sprint finish to the front on the final run in to the pave. I think it was said that Lance was 20ish, and I think Frank Schleck was very near the front when he crashed.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com