Now AC should be careful with that. That's one sure way to test positive ;-)

If he was on a soloist he could have won by an extra 1/8 inch for SURE

 
If Vino did know that AC flatted, he shouldn't have been pulling. I agree with your point about changing bikes. But he shouldn't drill it, he should sit in.

Given where it happens, it's rather unlikely that he should wait. He can play his card in the GC too.
Moreover, I'm pretty sure he didn't know. AC's fault for hanging out at the back rather than right behind Vino. No team director around to tell Vino, who was at the front doing a lot of work to limit the losses.

Top Dog: Fabian Cancellara
Top Frog: Sylvain Chavanel
Top God: Thor H.
Top Canuck: Ryder H.

Shaping up to be a very entertaining Tour.

PoC

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geoffwhite.ws

You're wasting your time, Francois. People are having a hard time getting past bias and perception here...

 
I'm not saying he should have waited, I'm saying he shouldn't be pulling GC contenders from other teams to the line. Don't pull for Wiggo, sit on his wheel.

Every year I try to remember to not talk cycling with folks who started following cycling in 99 and think the season lasts 3 weeks ;-)

If he'd known about the flat, he should have eased up and just crossed the line in the middle of that group, rather than being the lead guy that was pulling the group away from AC. Might have saved a few seconds. But if he didn't know about the flat, then he probably thought he was helping AC to gain those same few seconds on Schleck.

What today did show is that Vino is still one hell of a rider, and if he's prepared to work to support Contador then that could be a deciding factor in AC being able to win, particularly given that after today RS may not be as strong as we thought in supporting Lance.

Was also a great result today from a British perspective - Sky managed to get Steve Cummings into the breakaway, and both Geraint Thomas and Wiggins were good enough and smart enough to be in the right place at the right time as everything broke up towards the end. Thomas is definitely one to watch for the future - another Olympic track champion who has lost a lot of weight this year to make himself competitive for the stage races (like Wiggins did in 2009), and he's still only 24.

That's my take too. I don't think he knew. In the last km (they all went under the flamme rouge together) when he is at the front hammering to close the gap, after a big effort for his teammate, no way he could notice. AC should have stayed closer imo.

Definitely some entertaining bike racing today.

The problem with Vino isnt that he attacks. It's that 2 days later he will finish 9+ mins back of GC. I would love to see Astana send Vino up the road on a mt. stage and use him to help AC with one last push up to the finish (similiar to what USPS/Disco would do when they would send a rider in the break and have him wait at the very end).

The only issue I see with Vino/AC is that the longer Vino hangs around, the more "tense" that I imagine AC will get.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

 
The funny thing is that we agree. In my first post on this thread I said that I don't think Vino knew about ACs flat, there will be no shortage of people attacking him for this. (Just getting carried away about what I think he should have done "IF" he knew)

Well it looks like Lance's solo/hero efforts got him into a group that ended up 2:08 down on the leaders. However, there was a huge group behind him that came in at 2:25, and that group had 5 RS riders in it. So he buried himself to eventually end up picking up .... 17 seconds!

So in the long run, what did that really accomplish? May have been smarter to sit up and wait for his guys.

Now in the long run I don't think this makes a whit of difference. He's not going to lose more time or get dropped in the next few days due to his efforts today and by the next critical stage he will have recovered. But still, this just had tactical f**k up (and an air of desperation) written all over it for RS. Which is just weird to see.

According to the Cycling News results, Frank Schleck DNFed. Hope he is ok.

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speedySTATES

I guess you missed the 30km where Vino was at the front of the bunch drilling it for AC. Vino was an exemplary teammate today. Today bad AC didn't stay closer so that Vino could notice the flat.

Vino is not really stupid. He knows he stands no chance in the mountains against AC. But he knows that anything can happen in bike racing. So, it's his job to stay high in the GC, on top of helping AC, in case anything happens to AC.

Broken collarbone according to l'Equipe (but then they said yesterday that Tyler Hamilton lost of lot of time, so maybe they're wrong ;-))

I didnt miss that....I just laugh at your explaination, because when your a domestique, your a domestique, plain and simple.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

You can laugh as much as you want. Doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.

Top Happy Camper at Diner Tonight: Cadel Evans. Heathly and Lucky. Watch out!

17 seconds is a lot of time if Lance wants any chance to climb back up to AC. People should take notice how far up Evans is as well. Both Lance AND AC will have some serious work to do in bringing that back. I think this actually sets up a much more exciting race as we hit the mountains. All of the major contenders will have to attack in order to bring back Evans...who will ride possessed and hang on whichever wheel is out there in the lead. I don't any of them want to count on the TT to bring back time from Evans. He's good enough to defend there. And no...I still don't think Schleck is in any sort of a driver's seat here. He can and WILL lose big time in the TT. He's got to keep gaining time on every mountain stage.

I didnt miss that....I just laugh at your explaination, because when your a domestique, your a domestique, plain and simple. \\

You seem to be playing checkers here, and the rest of the cycling world is playing chess. It is not so simple as you like to make it. Sure the domestique is to help the captain, but if that person is very high in the GC, he becomes more effective than if he was sitting in 80th place. I think it is pretty evident what happened today, and if it falls on anyone it is AC for not being close at the very end. Guys do not ride with their head turned around in the last 1k when they have been and are putting time on other GC riders that got left behind. There was no time for a bike change, and even thought it was in all probability just Vino doing his job, he will become more effective later on if he can get near a podium spot. He becomes someone to chase now, but if he were off the back in time, he lost that card to play.

Tell you what, if 17 seconds or less ends up separating Lance and AC after 3 weeks, I will happily fly out to wherever you are and buy you a drink.

I agree that the stage made everything much more interesting, I was just questioning the ultimate value of Lance's big effort today in lieu of the alternative.

Fair enough....Fraussie, you may be right. I guess I jumped the gun and for a sec thought that Vino "attacked" his teammate. My guess is that reality was that Vino was hammering well before that to bring back the deficit on the front and AC simply had an untimely flat.

However, if you keep saying that, why does it matter where AC was in the group (you mention that he was too far back)? If your saying he was too far back, are you than saying he would have gotten a bike change and/or Vino's attention to help him if he was closer to Vino, which would then void this whole arguement??


Again, it shouldnt matter where AC was in the group, because Vino wasnt going to do anything for him.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

How could Vino not know about the flat? It was right there on TV!

Riding with the stripes has totally given him confidence, and as the world champion, he is doing a great job as world champion.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com