By your argument, everyone should be running barefoot. Shoes themselves are just crutches.

Oh and if you get into Boston make sure not to get your following year BQ there because it is a downhill cheater's course.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Oh, we got the magnet/sticker for your car right here

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I’m in the same boat, can almost meet the qualifying time but with the current cutoffs I have to improve. Problem is I’m more of a sprinter than a marathoner, but that’s beside the point. It is perfectly legal to wear 4% and run a downhill Boston qualifying course. But if you’re doing this because you don’t want to put in the extra effort to train to get a few minutes off your time then just go on eBay and buy some Boston Marathon gear to wear, people will be just as impressed with your achievement. If you’re given it everything you got then maybe the shoes and course will give you the edge you need.

1980 to 1986, qualifying time for 18-39 ages was 2:50. For the olds, 40-49, it was 3:10.
In 1987 it was relaxed to a mere 3:00..
In 1992, when I ran it, it had gone to 3:10, and 5 year age groups each easier.

Personally I would not be happy to qualify on a mineshaft course.. otoh if it was the only way to do it, might just deal with the unhappiness ;-)

Don’t bother doping.

Poseur says it doesn’t actually even work anyway, and is just a really good placebo.

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float , hammer , and jog

This is a personal question. You will get(did) get both extremes from Slowtwitch.
In the end, only you will care.

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Team Zoot So Cal

exactly, interesting watching the sausage being made

Laughed out loud at this... the ST answer to any question where someone wants to get faster.

If you're considering doping, don't forget the naproxen. May as well go all in

Doping is chemical. Using equipment that may be advantageous or qualifying on optimal courses is not doping. Period.

By your standards all triathletes wearing wetsuits are doping... Unless the water is actually cold.

I don’t even get why this is a debate...I realize the logistics of qualifying are different, but do triathletes pick slow courses and intentionally ride slow bikes when trying to KQ? If you can afford it and want to, Why wouldn’t you pick the fastest equipment? There are dozens of threads discussing savings of a few watts on $10,000 bikes that everyone here oogles over and no one bats an eye. And, if your goal is to BQ, why wouldn’t you pick the course that maximizes that chance??

Your thread title is clickbait. Are you just generating nonsensical discussion?

1. Do what makes you happy.
2. Do it within the rules. So advantageous run courses and equipment choices are well within the rules.

It's pretty simple.

Why is wearing 4% doping any more so then not running barefoot?
wouldn't a real marathoner do it with no gatorade and only water? gatorade helps performance afterall.

Definitely no coaching, that costs money, and could provide a benefit... Oh, and make sure to sleep in your car the night before your A Race.. having a comfy bed that lets you sleep the night before ...definitely an advantage.


You need to wear shoes, might as well be shoes that make you go fast. BTW, I think there are plenty of folks who dont have the form for 4%s to work for them ... folks complain of instability ,etc. I know folks who have trained to be able to wear them. I

I kind of know that the goal of this thread is just to get folks riled up , but why?

The line is pretty simple... if Boston allows it , and USA Track and Field allows it , your good... If they dont ... no bueno.

You may not like how they get there, and thats fine... but being honest means playing by the rules, whatever those rules may be.

Why do you feel entitled to race Boston? Just because you want to does not mean you get to....

I’ll go opposite of everyone else and say if it’s not against the rules it’s not cheating. As I know it (and I could be wrong) there’s nothing in the rules stating you can’t use certain shoes and you can run certain courses. IMO if it’s inside the rules it’s tactics. If it’s outside the rules it’s cheating.

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I still lapped everyone on the couch!

Get on some peds. Everyone else is.

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Stupid question IMO.
There is no should. If the shoes and routes are permissible, do what do you want.
If you see it as doping, then surely you wouldn't want to do it as it would sully your achievement. What's the value in qualifying if you had to do something you regard as cheating to achieve it. It doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks so long as you're operating within the rules, and the spirit of the rules.

Thumbs up on the “nonsensical discussion comment”.

If I said grass is green and the sky is blue, it would start an intense debate on this forum.

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Not everything is as it seems -Mr. Miyagi

You'd get someone who would say "My grass is kinda brown, and the sky is sort of a hazy grey. YMMV"

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

You must have read a different post than I. I don’t recall anything indicating that the OP is entitled to run Boston. They want to wear a specific shoe, and run a downhill course (all within the rules).

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Not everything is as it seems -Mr. Miyagi

I’ve done 2 Ironman’s, both easily under 10:00
I’ve been the overall winner in 4 tris with an average field size around 500
On a legit course on a hot day I went 2:00:20 in an Olympic distance.
I was a division 3 all American swimmer

Open marathon I’ve broken 3:10 4 times: 3:09 twice, 3:08 and 3:07 (when I went 3:08 the wheels fell off - I had a 3:02 in me but went for broke and ended up broken)

I agree that breaking 3 doesn’t make you elite or anything like it. But the idea that just about anyone can do it is fool hearty.

Where did I say anyone can do it? I said it's not particularly fast.

BTW - you are definitely underperforming in your open marathons. What is your run split in those sub-10hr IMs? Are you just a really strong biker that has never trained properly for an open marathon? Have you ever done 16-20 weeks of dedicated run training with a proper marathon prep build?

I was replying to you but not responding to you specifically.

To your question: yes, one time. Was in shape to go a 3:02.

I believe in taking every competitive advantage you can legally and morally get, because not doing so is just handicapping yourself.

Some other things to consider that are the same as the Vaporflys (more on downhill below)

• Do you run tangents around corners and end up only running 25.9mi? Or do you take the wide way around and run 26.5mi?
• Do you take any form of caffeine during the race?
• Do you use any pace groups?
• Do you use a GPS watch to monitor your pace and keep you on your ideal race plan?

All of these things can help you out and aren't used or are available to all runners. So why not use the best shoes available to you as well?

On the downhill side, I think that's just fine if your goal is to get into Boston. I don't see it any different than running tangents to be honest. Picking a course suitable to your goals is part of the game. In triathlon, since I'm a bigger guy (193cm/85kg) if I want to KQ, I'm not going to try at IMWI which happens to be my 'local' race since there are so many hills. It would put me at a competitive disadvantage. I would go to IMFL where my higher total Watts gives me an advantage on the bike. So how is it different if you find a course that helps you qualify for Boston vs if you find a course that helps you qualify for Kona?