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Should I dope to get into Boston?
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Working hard on my running and I know I can get in (again) but just by a few minutes, so with the cut off it will be close. But I also know the playing field is not level, so should I dope to get in?

I am not talking chemical doping (calm down), I am talking mechanical (Nike Vapor Fly %) or course doping (don't run a flat marathon run the steepest downhill marathon you can find).

I know other entrants are doing this, I have numerous friends running with carbon plates and running downhill races shaving huge chunks of time off.

Where's the line?
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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [Zippy303] [ In reply to ]
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If you need to “dope” either drugs or mechanical or downhill, you don’t deserve to run in the “hobby jogger” olympics. Back in the day, if you couldn’t run sub 3, at any age, you didn’t get to run. Accept reality.
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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [hawkrunner] [ In reply to ]
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hawkrunner wrote:
If you need to “dope” either drugs or mechanical or downhill, you don’t deserve to run in the “hobby jogger” olympics. Back in the day, if you couldn’t run sub 3, at any age, you didn’t get to run. Accept reality.

What years exactly is back in the day?
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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [hawkrunner] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah so thats not helpful, lets stay on topic here. If you don't like the topic/flavor of conversation, thanks for the opinion.

A good friend of mine is a pro triathlete and he fundamentally believe is you can't swim sub 55 min, whats the point of doing an IM? I think thats a bit harsh...I think your sub 3 hr rule is a bit harsh and frankly not going to happen.
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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [Zippy303] [ In reply to ]
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just do it

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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [Zippy303] [ In reply to ]
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Zippy303 wrote:
Working hard on my running and I know I can get in (again) but just by a few minutes, so with the cut off it will be close. But I also know the playing field is not level, so should I dope to get in?

I am not talking chemical doping (calm down), I am talking mechanical (Nike Vapor Fly %) or course doping (don't run a flat marathon run the steepest downhill marathon you can find).

I know other entrants are doing this, I have numerous friends running with carbon plates and running downhill races shaving huge chunks of time off.

Where's the line?

wear an aero helmet too.

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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [Zippy303] [ In reply to ]
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Get the shoes but don't run a downhill marathon. Just because that sounds like it would suck.

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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [Zippy303] [ In reply to ]
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Ok, I was being a bit harsh, so apologize. But I don’t believe in chasing a Boston time by chosing to run extreme downhill course or using other means to “achieve” a goal that is not otherwise in my wheelhouse.
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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [Zippy303] [ In reply to ]
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I thought I just read that the qualifiers for Boston are being accepted at times 1:39 below the required time because of the large number of entries... so.. better get to training! Shoes, downhill, whatever you need to do to reach your goal. Just not chemical dope.

Hard work pays off.
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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [hawkrunner] [ In reply to ]
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yes, no worries but its fun and a good goal. Its got me off the couch and I am running like a champ these days, which is really fun.

But I am goal oriented so would really like to hit the target. I think I am open to running is super shoes, just like flats, disc wheels, shaved legs...Oh and I plan to wear my aero helmet (backwards) I am sure no one will notice.

Downhill race seems a bit much, but a friend just shaved 10 minutes so thought crossed my mind on my 5 am run...you guys get it.
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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
Zippy303 wrote:
Working hard on my running and I know I can get in (again) but just by a few minutes, so with the cut off it will be close. But I also know the playing field is not level, so should I dope to get in?

I am not talking chemical doping (calm down), I am talking mechanical (Nike Vapor Fly %) or course doping (don't run a flat marathon run the steepest downhill marathon you can find).

I know other entrants are doing this, I have numerous friends running with carbon plates and running downhill races shaving huge chunks of time off.

Where's the line?


wear an aero helmet too.

and carb load


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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [Zippy303] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, you should do it. Don't forget to update this thread with your result(s).
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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [AC_triwarrior] [ In reply to ]
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AC_triwarrior wrote:
I thought I just read that the qualifiers for Boston are being accepted at times 1:39 below the required time because of the large number of entries... so.. better get to training! Shoes, downhill, whatever you need to do to reach your goal. Just not chemical dope.

Hard work pays off.

If the point is to accomplish a “goal” at any price, how are shoes, downhill, etc, any different than chemical doping. It’s all “cheating” if the only reason you are doing them is to better your “natural” talent.
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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]
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MrTri123 wrote:
What years exactly is back in the day?

Around the same time period that America was 'great'
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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [hawkrunner] [ In reply to ]
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So you are saying that wearing high performance gear and selecting a fast course race to qualify for something is the same as chemical doping.... ?

Convince me please.

You are dealt the cards for the race you sign up for and as long as your equipment is within the regulations I don't see how. that is cheating.
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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [Zippy303] [ In reply to ]
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I see no problem running the Vapor Fly or ‘running’ a downhill marathon - just trying to utilize the Slowtwitch of inserting the word ‘run’ in inappropriate circumstances. That said, downhill marathons, for example Tucson, are fast but will beat you up. Still a certified course is a certified course
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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [Zippy303] [ In reply to ]
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Zippy303 wrote:
Oh and I plan to wear my aero helmet (backwards) I am sure no one will notice.

Pix or it didn't happen. /NOT PINK!
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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [Zippy303] [ In reply to ]
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Be warned, you have double letters in your username, so you're already suspect, no matter what the outcome

I recommend bib-faking and just jump in & get your medal at the end

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"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [Zippy303] [ In reply to ]
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Why would running the vaporfly next % or 4% b "mechanical" doping? Are there springs in the shoes? Are they really as fast as everyone says? What kind of gains? Is it 4%.. I'd gladly pay $250 for 4% faster with no extra effort, as long as the shoes are legit not cheating.
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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [Zippy303] [ In reply to ]
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The question of how should you behave yourself is a philosophical one, so it has many answers.
I suspect there is some cultural influence on that though.

For example the majority of slowtwitchers probably would say hard NO to chemistry, soft NO to downhill and hard YES to expensive shoes.
But if I turn my head from monitor and ask my office colleagues, the majority would probably find completely acceptable not to qualify at all, but instead raise money and run Boston with a charity bib.
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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [Zippy303] [ In reply to ]
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Since it is withing the BAA rules, do it if you want. In the end it is your accomplishment and no one else really cares. If you feel you would have an asterisk next to your qualifier in your mind then don't, but if you feel fine about it then do it.

That said here might be some things to think about:

1) There were a ton of vaporflys at Boston this year warn by a lot of people who weren't sniffing top 25% in their age group.
2) People who talk about the good old days of 2:50 are talking about a long time ago; 1980s long ago. 20 years ago the M20-39 limit was 3:10:59 and it didn't fill up for months. 3) So for a period in the olden days you had to be 2:50 fast, but in the old days you didn't need to be nearly as fast as now. Some of this is due to popularity, but some of it is due to the advent of downhill marathons and probably vaporflys. You aren't riding a Centurion are you?


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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [Zippy303] [ In reply to ]
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If you're not cheatin', you're not trying hard enough.
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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [Zippy303] [ In reply to ]
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Actually, it is helpful. Allow me to interpret - "no, you shouldn't dope. Just accept that you aren't fast enough to get the job done and move on".

To be honest, a 3hr marathon isn't particularly fast unless you are over 50 (at least). Sure, it's an accomplishment and something you can be proud of relative to the general population, but certainly doesn't make you special.


Zippy303 wrote:
Yeah so thats not helpful, lets stay on topic here. If you don't like the topic/flavor of conversation, thanks for the opinion.

A good friend of mine is a pro triathlete and he fundamentally believe is you can't swim sub 55 min, whats the point of doing an IM? I think thats a bit harsh...I think your sub 3 hr rule is a bit harsh and frankly not going to happen.
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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [Zippy303] [ In reply to ]
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Why go to all that trouble?

Just go the charity route and donate 5k. I mean that is the cause of all of this, right?
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Re: Should I dope to get into Boston? [Zippy303] [ In reply to ]
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As long as when you post on social media that you've qualified for Boston you include a link to the results from the marathon where you qualified and post a photo of yourself in the qualifying marathon wearing the Vapor Fly shoes.
Last edited by: Mark Lemmon: Sep 26, 19 12:13
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