If you need to “dope” either drugs or mechanical or downhill, you don’t deserve to run in the “hobby jogger” olympics. Back in the day, if you couldn’t run sub 3, at any age, you didn’t get to run. Accept reality.

What years exactly is back in the day?

Yeah so thats not helpful, lets stay on topic here. If you don't like the topic/flavor of conversation, thanks for the opinion.

A good friend of mine is a pro triathlete and he fundamentally believe is you can't swim sub 55 min, whats the point of doing an IM? I think thats a bit harsh...I think your sub 3 hr rule is a bit harsh and frankly not going to happen.

just do it

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Use this link to save $5 off your USAT membership renewal:
https://membership.usatriathlon.org/...A2-BAD7-6137B629D9B7

wear an aero helmet too.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Get the shoes but don't run a downhill marathon. Just because that sounds like it would suck.

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Twitter - Instagram

Ok, I was being a bit harsh, so apologize. But I don’t believe in chasing a Boston time by chosing to run extreme downhill course or using other means to “achieve” a goal that is not otherwise in my wheelhouse.

I thought I just read that the qualifiers for Boston are being accepted at times 1:39 below the required time because of the large number of entries... so.. better get to training! Shoes, downhill, whatever you need to do to reach your goal. Just not chemical dope.

Hard work pays off.

yes, no worries but its fun and a good goal. Its got me off the couch and I am running like a champ these days, which is really fun.

But I am goal oriented so would really like to hit the target. I think I am open to running is super shoes, just like flats, disc wheels, shaved legs...Oh and I plan to wear my aero helmet (backwards) I am sure no one will notice.

Downhill race seems a bit much, but a friend just shaved 10 minutes so thought crossed my mind on my 5 am run...you guys get it.

and carb load

Yes, you should do it. Don't forget to update this thread with your result(s).

If the point is to accomplish a “goal” at any price, how are shoes, downhill, etc, any different than chemical doping. It’s all “cheating” if the only reason you are doing them is to better your “natural” talent.

Around the same time period that America was 'great'

So you are saying that wearing high performance gear and selecting a fast course race to qualify for something is the same as chemical doping.... ?

Convince me please.

You are dealt the cards for the race you sign up for and as long as your equipment is within the regulations I don't see how. that is cheating.

I see no problem running the Vapor Fly or ‘running’ a downhill marathon - just trying to utilize the Slowtwitch of inserting the word ‘run’ in inappropriate circumstances. That said, downhill marathons, for example Tucson, are fast but will beat you up. Still a certified course is a certified course

Pix or it didn't happen. /NOT PINK!

Be warned, you have double letters in your username, so you're already suspect, no matter what the outcome

I recommend bib-faking and just jump in & get your medal at the end

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Why would running the vaporfly next % or 4% b "mechanical" doping? Are there springs in the shoes? Are they really as fast as everyone says? What kind of gains? Is it 4%.. I'd gladly pay $250 for 4% faster with no extra effort, as long as the shoes are legit not cheating.

The question of how should you behave yourself is a philosophical one, so it has many answers.
I suspect there is some cultural influence on that though.

For example the majority of slowtwitchers probably would say hard NO to chemistry, soft NO to downhill and hard YES to expensive shoes.
But if I turn my head from monitor and ask my office colleagues, the majority would probably find completely acceptable not to qualify at all, but instead raise money and run Boston with a charity bib.

Since it is withing the BAA rules, do it if you want. In the end it is your accomplishment and no one else really cares. If you feel you would have an asterisk next to your qualifier in your mind then don't, but if you feel fine about it then do it.

That said here might be some things to think about:

1) There were a ton of vaporflys at Boston this year warn by a lot of people who weren't sniffing top 25% in their age group.
2) People who talk about the good old days of 2:50 are talking about a long time ago; 1980s long ago. 20 years ago the M20-39 limit was 3:10:59 and it didn't fill up for months. 3) So for a period in the olden days you had to be 2:50 fast, but in the old days you didn't need to be nearly as fast as now. Some of this is due to popularity, but some of it is due to the advent of downhill marathons and probably vaporflys. You aren't riding a Centurion are you?


To get ahead of the comments: Nike Zoom Structure 21, 2018 Rock n Roll San Diego

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The first time man split the atom was when the atom tried to hold Jens Voigt's wheel, but cracked.

If you're not cheatin', you're not trying hard enough.

Actually, it is helpful. Allow me to interpret - "no, you shouldn't dope. Just accept that you aren't fast enough to get the job done and move on".

To be honest, a 3hr marathon isn't particularly fast unless you are over 50 (at least). Sure, it's an accomplishment and something you can be proud of relative to the general population, but certainly doesn't make you special.

Why go to all that trouble?

Just go the charity route and donate 5k. I mean that is the cause of all of this, right?

As long as when you post on social media that you've qualified for Boston you include a link to the results from the marathon where you qualified and post a photo of yourself in the qualifying marathon wearing the Vapor Fly shoes.

By your argument, everyone should be running barefoot. Shoes themselves are just crutches.

Oh and if you get into Boston make sure not to get your following year BQ there because it is a downhill cheater's course.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Oh, we got the magnet/sticker for your car right here

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I’m in the same boat, can almost meet the qualifying time but with the current cutoffs I have to improve. Problem is I’m more of a sprinter than a marathoner, but that’s beside the point. It is perfectly legal to wear 4% and run a downhill Boston qualifying course. But if you’re doing this because you don’t want to put in the extra effort to train to get a few minutes off your time then just go on eBay and buy some Boston Marathon gear to wear, people will be just as impressed with your achievement. If you’re given it everything you got then maybe the shoes and course will give you the edge you need.

1980 to 1986, qualifying time for 18-39 ages was 2:50. For the olds, 40-49, it was 3:10.
In 1987 it was relaxed to a mere 3:00..
In 1992, when I ran it, it had gone to 3:10, and 5 year age groups each easier.

Personally I would not be happy to qualify on a mineshaft course.. otoh if it was the only way to do it, might just deal with the unhappiness ;-)

Don’t bother doping.

Poseur says it doesn’t actually even work anyway, and is just a really good placebo.

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float , hammer , and jog

This is a personal question. You will get(did) get both extremes from Slowtwitch.
In the end, only you will care.

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Team Zoot So Cal

exactly, interesting watching the sausage being made

Laughed out loud at this... the ST answer to any question where someone wants to get faster.

If you're considering doping, don't forget the naproxen. May as well go all in

Doping is chemical. Using equipment that may be advantageous or qualifying on optimal courses is not doping. Period.

By your standards all triathletes wearing wetsuits are doping... Unless the water is actually cold.

I don’t even get why this is a debate...I realize the logistics of qualifying are different, but do triathletes pick slow courses and intentionally ride slow bikes when trying to KQ? If you can afford it and want to, Why wouldn’t you pick the fastest equipment? There are dozens of threads discussing savings of a few watts on $10,000 bikes that everyone here oogles over and no one bats an eye. And, if your goal is to BQ, why wouldn’t you pick the course that maximizes that chance??

Your thread title is clickbait. Are you just generating nonsensical discussion?

1. Do what makes you happy.
2. Do it within the rules. So advantageous run courses and equipment choices are well within the rules.

It's pretty simple.

Why is wearing 4% doping any more so then not running barefoot?
wouldn't a real marathoner do it with no gatorade and only water? gatorade helps performance afterall.

Definitely no coaching, that costs money, and could provide a benefit... Oh, and make sure to sleep in your car the night before your A Race.. having a comfy bed that lets you sleep the night before ...definitely an advantage.


You need to wear shoes, might as well be shoes that make you go fast. BTW, I think there are plenty of folks who dont have the form for 4%s to work for them ... folks complain of instability ,etc. I know folks who have trained to be able to wear them. I

I kind of know that the goal of this thread is just to get folks riled up , but why?

The line is pretty simple... if Boston allows it , and USA Track and Field allows it , your good... If they dont ... no bueno.

You may not like how they get there, and thats fine... but being honest means playing by the rules, whatever those rules may be.

Why do you feel entitled to race Boston? Just because you want to does not mean you get to....

I’ll go opposite of everyone else and say if it’s not against the rules it’s not cheating. As I know it (and I could be wrong) there’s nothing in the rules stating you can’t use certain shoes and you can run certain courses. IMO if it’s inside the rules it’s tactics. If it’s outside the rules it’s cheating.

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I still lapped everyone on the couch!

Get on some peds. Everyone else is.

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Stupid question IMO.
There is no should. If the shoes and routes are permissible, do what do you want.
If you see it as doping, then surely you wouldn't want to do it as it would sully your achievement. What's the value in qualifying if you had to do something you regard as cheating to achieve it. It doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks so long as you're operating within the rules, and the spirit of the rules.

Thumbs up on the “nonsensical discussion comment”.

If I said grass is green and the sky is blue, it would start an intense debate on this forum.

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Not everything is as it seems -Mr. Miyagi

You'd get someone who would say "My grass is kinda brown, and the sky is sort of a hazy grey. YMMV"

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

You must have read a different post than I. I don’t recall anything indicating that the OP is entitled to run Boston. They want to wear a specific shoe, and run a downhill course (all within the rules).

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Not everything is as it seems -Mr. Miyagi

I’ve done 2 Ironman’s, both easily under 10:00
I’ve been the overall winner in 4 tris with an average field size around 500
On a legit course on a hot day I went 2:00:20 in an Olympic distance.
I was a division 3 all American swimmer

Open marathon I’ve broken 3:10 4 times: 3:09 twice, 3:08 and 3:07 (when I went 3:08 the wheels fell off - I had a 3:02 in me but went for broke and ended up broken)

I agree that breaking 3 doesn’t make you elite or anything like it. But the idea that just about anyone can do it is fool hearty.

Where did I say anyone can do it? I said it's not particularly fast.

BTW - you are definitely underperforming in your open marathons. What is your run split in those sub-10hr IMs? Are you just a really strong biker that has never trained properly for an open marathon? Have you ever done 16-20 weeks of dedicated run training with a proper marathon prep build?

I was replying to you but not responding to you specifically.

To your question: yes, one time. Was in shape to go a 3:02.

I believe in taking every competitive advantage you can legally and morally get, because not doing so is just handicapping yourself.

Some other things to consider that are the same as the Vaporflys (more on downhill below)

• Do you run tangents around corners and end up only running 25.9mi? Or do you take the wide way around and run 26.5mi?
• Do you take any form of caffeine during the race?
• Do you use any pace groups?
• Do you use a GPS watch to monitor your pace and keep you on your ideal race plan?

All of these things can help you out and aren't used or are available to all runners. So why not use the best shoes available to you as well?

On the downhill side, I think that's just fine if your goal is to get into Boston. I don't see it any different than running tangents to be honest. Picking a course suitable to your goals is part of the game. In triathlon, since I'm a bigger guy (193cm/85kg) if I want to KQ, I'm not going to try at IMWI which happens to be my 'local' race since there are so many hills. It would put me at a competitive disadvantage. I would go to IMFL where my higher total Watts gives me an advantage on the bike. So how is it different if you find a course that helps you qualify for Boston vs if you find a course that helps you qualify for Kona?

A properly measured and certified course is measured through the tangents. So while you can run wide and add distance, you can't cut any unless you actually go off course and cut the corners.

If you run tangents on a certified course you run 26.2. In a pack that is tough/impossible to do, that is why newbies are always complaining that a marathon course was long.


It is different because with Kona you are competing against other competitors for slots whereas Boston it is strictly time.

I am not saying he shouldn't (as I said in a previous post) but these comparisons to KQ are not apples to apples.

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The first time man split the atom was when the atom tried to hold Jens Voigt's wheel, but cracked.

The difference is that in an IM you are competing with others under the SAME conditions. By choosing a downhill course for a BQ you are electing to compete under EASIER conditions than most of your competition.

Proliferation of downhill marathons is another manifestation of pussification of the sport (pink?).

My opinion on it, is that neither one of those are mechanical doping. The boston marathon specifically does not tell you that you can't run a downhill marathon. So in different words, they are telling you the following: "Qualifying time for Male 30-39 on a downhill course is 3:05". They just don't say the downhill part. The playing field is level. As far as the shoes, besides their hefty price tag, in my opinion, you still have to turn the legs over, and last for 3 hours of fast endurance exercise to qualify, so the work is still cut out for someone looking to qualify. My first goal I made when I got into running was to qualify for Boston. I still have not reached this goal, so for me, I am still doing everything I can to try to get there. If I don't make it in my marathon this Decemeber (Flat course), then I will probably register for a downhill course sometime in Summer 2020. Screw the haters.

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- Jordan

My Strava

Proliferation of downhill marathons is another manifestation of pussification of the sport (pink?).

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I think I need a better understanding. Are these downhill marathons just more or less 50m less gain over 26.2mi or are we talking about the "downhill" affect, etc. Drop of say 600m etc.


We have a local soft surface trail that may actually be "net downhill" by 10 or so feet, I wouldn't call that a "downhill" marathon. So is BQ just letting essentially any 26.2 count now, or are there still *some* standards to the amount of net downhill.


Or for example can anyone give me examples of some downhill marathons?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I was referring to 5k drop in elevation like Revel series:

https://www.runrevel.com/rml

 As far as the shoes, besides their hefty price tag, in my opinion, you still have to turn the legs over, and last for 3 hours of fast endurance exercise to qualify, so the work is still cut out for someone looking to qualify.


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If a shoe has a bigger bounce back and/or absorbs more of the impact, etc that essentially gives you more of an ability to have the legs turning over. And I'm not saying they are wrong to use.

If what I'm hearing about them is true that you are getting huge time savings from them, as my athlete said, it would be stupid not to look into buying them. Was it someone who just pointed out "go look at the top 10 itu guys at world's who wore them".


It's just like a downhill marathon...it's just a little bit easier, your story is kinda evidence of that. If you can't do it the regular way, do it the most easier way possible. And again if it's allowed, then it's allowed and it's then on the organization to deal with it. As I previously posted what actually is being defined by "downhill" marathons. I had thought many straight downhill races werent' allowed. But say 50m drop over 26.2mi to me isn't really "downhill" running, that's as much flat as anything.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Here in Albuquerque we have the Sandia Crest Marathon with a net elevation drop of 4459'. Click on that link and their primary selling point is literally "The Fastest Boston Qualifier East of the Rio Grande". Sure it would destroy my legs but I could probably go out there and walk/jog a BQ.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Is that race a BQ?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Yep:
https://www.runrevel.com/rml/faq

I guess BQ has "sold out" when races like that are allowed to count. I'm not hating on it, but that's just stupid bullshit when that's allowed to count.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Now that is a downhill marathon!! I think most races are just a few 100 feet, and honestly, on a lot of them it doesnt matter. I remember running the Vegas marathon and it was a couple 100 feet loss, but you would never know it. It was mostly up and down, with an 8 mile climb in there too, so your body had no idea it went just downhill.

Look at it this way, what if Pikes peak marathon finished 500 feet lower than it started, you think that would be a fast course with negative 500 feet? But that Tuscon race just looks silly for a real time, downhill for virtually the entire course, didnt know those were available for BQ. Guess times have changed, I had to run 2;50 or under to get in...

Agreed, not apples to apples but there is some small degree of course choosing giving one an advantage, most obvious case in point is a weak swimmer but a strong runner picking IM Chattanooga. To a lesser degree, a lighter but stronger cyclist picking say, IM France etc. every course has advantages for certain athletes. Still need to compete and one never knows who will show up but I would be surprised if most KQers don't pick courses that suit themselves the most.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Here in Albuquerque we have the Sandia Crest Marathon //

That looks brutal on your legs, and it is all done at pretty high altitudes. I wonder how many people get altitude sick at 10,000 ft. that seems to be the cutoff? It would have been nice if they found a nice graded dirt road for at lest 1/2 that race, all of it would have been nicer. I bet for some low landers who are not built for the high mountains, this race is actually slower..

If you actually look at results, the times aren't all that fast because most of the good runners here, of which there are plenty, aren't dumb enough to race it. Alitutude wise though, anyone who is acclimated to the city's altitude of 5000-6500 feet won't have any problems spending 45 minutes at 10000. I've biked up the road up the mountain this route uses multiple times and honestly I've never felt any different from the altitude at the very top (10,700') than riding anywhere else in the city.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Steamtown marathon in Scranton, PA has a 1,000ft net drop and is known for being a relatively easy BQ.

One of their marketing points "On average, 22% to 25% of Steamtown finishers qualify for the Boston Marathon".

Here's a strawman: Find a fast course that meets the OT qualifying rules:

1. The qualifying mark must be made on a USATF certified course, in an event sanctioned by USA Track & Field or a member federation of the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF). The course must be USATF/IAAF/AIMS certified with an active course certification and have an elevation loss no greater than 3.25 meters/km.

So go run Cal International (fast OT qualifier, 340' drop), rather than rolling down a hill (Revel Run, Sandia Crest, etc).

But whatever.

And thats my point. Are we really progressing or just cheating ourselves by running these huge drop marathons to BQ and or getting so much tech in our shoes to go faster. Thats my internal debate, where the line? where my line?

I get the shoe debate and its a bit more murky and seems ok to me, you still need an engine to drive the shoes. But the downhill marathons seem over the top for me. At first I fairly innocently recommended a friend who was desperate to get into Boston, "run downhill!"

Now that I see the BQ times keep lowering, are we really getting faster (engine wise) or are we using more tools that make us perceive it as faster?

Can’t really tell people to calm down about doping when you put it in the title to get attention

Just sayin

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http://www.TriScottsdale.org

Now that I see the BQ times keep lowering, are we really getting faster (engine wise) or are we using more tools that make us perceive it as faster? //

Move the time down to where it used to be, 2;50open/3;10 masters and women. Then I dont see a problem anymore, probably less than 5k runners. I have seen the progression of this monstrosity of a race, and it is quite apparent it is numbers they are after, and the ruse of a time standard is just a thing to make it seem special and elite(and of course all the $$ that come with those numbers). When you have probably over 40k people actually "qualify", its pretty much like getting into USAT nationals. Train a little bit, find a particular race, and you are in. If not, do it again, and again, and again, until you do...


Nothing wrong with that of course, I applaud the business acumen of the owners of the race. They played the running field perfectly...

Thanks, just received an email from USAT today informing me that I qualified for nationals.

Thanks, just received an email from USAT today informing me that I qualified for nationals. ///

Did you actually have to do a race? I got an email once, and I didnt even race!!!

I think so. I had a great season, so now I’m going to look up what it took to qualify and see if it was a specific race. Showed it to my wife, she was duly impressed (I won’t show her this thread🤫).

Why? Boston is not a flat course. It is a statute downhill.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Yeah, Boston got something like 400ft elevation loss, but I don’t think anyone is going to argue that it’s an “easy” course.

On the flip side you got races with 5000ft elevation loss with a sole purpose of making it as easy as possible to BQ.

We'll just agree to disagree.

~400ft difference over 26.2mi is hugely difference than 5000' difference over same distance.

But that's just my take on it.

ETA: I dont think anyone classifies Boston as a "downhill" race in the context that we are discussing using extreme "downhill" races. Yes Boston is invalid for any records, but it's generally not particularly thought of as an easy race as you seem to suggest.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

And this is exactly why I don’t believe that a BQ is that meaningful anymore. It’s too bad that this race can have such qualifiers. Kona is a far different story as you have to compete in the same conditions to get in. I would think that Boston can fix this by certifying one race in every country, two or 3 in big countries, and one race per state in the US,. That would give prestige back to the race.

Winning times for that downhill race don’t seem super fast though, i think at a certain point running downhill is hard if it’s too steep.

Don’t do it. Running liek any sport is something you should do to challenge yourself. There are always goals you may not be able to achieve because you cannot put in the time to train, are physically too limited etc. There is so many things most of us can do to improve our performance like working on our sleep patterns, optimizing our nutrition, training plans and so on. No reason to harm your body by taking performance enhancing drugs.

I couldn’t be proud of anything I achieved while on peds. I am sure you’d feel the same. It isn’t a victory over yourself if you are taking a short cut. Do whatever you want, but don’t ask for somebodies blessing. You won’t get it and you shouldn’t ask for it.

Winning time are not super fast because of competition. I think these event draw people who are 10-15 minutes slower than BQ standard. If you are comfortably faster than a BQ - no reason to sign up for these.

No reason to harm your body by taking performance enhancing drugs. //

If you want to contribute to a thread, please read more than the title, maybe even a few responses too!... (-;

Bought the VP Next % and raced a half marathon this weekend. Increased my PR by 1 min from 2 years ago. The shoes are really impressive. Mostly how soar I am not. Just a smidge of forward lean and you can feel the shoe engage and propel you forward.

And the debate starts (about whether or not the shoes are faster).

What was your time for the 1/2?

There’s no doubt in my mind. If you doubt them go trial or buy a pair. It’s very convincing experience. I could literally lean in and feel my pace pick up. Curious how many guys will have them on Kona as everyone at the front of the WC marathons had them in Dubai, it’s for a reason besides sponsorship dollars.

Again doubt any of that, go try them.

I ran a 1:29:25

That debates been settled by everyone who's used them

You're only cheating yourself.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

I felt great. I put disc wheels on my bike, trained hard, was right in the mix of being able to push myself the whole race and finished with a smile and sense of satisfaction of breaking through 1:30.

Everyone around me has disc wheels (thanks whomever gave that analogy to VP) so am good with my result. Appreciate the support.

I totally disagree. I have many friends who are good athletes and it would still be very difficult for them to qualify for Boston. I told them how important mileage is and some of them take me up on that. Trouble is injury when taking up the high mileage too quickly. I'm an old runner and I still could qualify for Boston pretty much any year I want, but after 5 Bostons, I figured that was enough and never ran another after 2000. However, my first BQ was pretty damn hard and I'd never discount the effort I put in to do it.

As far as a KQ, I've only tried a couple of times and not nearly the effort of my running years. Maybe one last shot next year when I age up.

Back to the OP, I feel if you want to spend the money on shoes do it. However, those downhill races aren't as easy as you think. I have friends who toasted their quads on downhill marathons and never tried again. Flat races like Chicago feel easier to me.

I don’t wear these shoes but I’m curious how anyone is cheating themselves or others by paying for them and wearing them in a race?? Serious question as I don’t know the answer....have they been banned or do they violate any rules by wearing them?

If they have not been banned, then help me understand how buying/wearing them is any different than someone buying the $15k bike or $2,500 wheels to make them go faster on the bike or buying the fastest wetsuit available to make their swim faster in a wetsuit legal race?

Would you like a cookie?

Yawn....The point is I am reasonably talented and cannot break 3 hours in a marathon. Yet the yahoos on here will tell you that breaking 3 hours in a marathon is a joke. Sorry if you feel threatened by someone marginally talented.

Not threatened, just always find it funny for people to specifically boast about their accomplishments instead of just saying "as someone who is reasonably talented, I cannot break 3 hours in the marathon"

With respect, what does someone describing them as 'reasonably talented' really mean? The first thing most people here on ST would ask is for them to back that statement up with numbers. Personally I do find one target compared to others interesting.

ETA I'd actually be interested in more numbers - the olympic or ironman splits, for instance. But completely understand if that poster doesn't want to give trolls here a stick to beat them with.

Oh grow up. I've been on here for 6 years and long ago learned that there are plenty of people on here way more talented than me. If you think that is boastful I'd hate to see what you think of someone with real talent.

Also, Steve, I received 3 email notifications from ST saying you've replied to my post. The first two replies were deleted. So how about you grow some balls and stand by whatever it is you actually want to say. OR don't and just leave me alone.

I just kept quoting the posts wrong, which was my reason for deleting them, Mr. Tough Guy. I just prefer people have a shred of humility when talking about their results. " On a legit course on a hot day I went 2:00:20 in an Olympic distance". Who says something like that without looking to boast about themself.

Also if you were "in 3:02 shape" then you can go sub-3 in a marathon. Minor tweaks in training and race day execution and there's no reason 2 minutes cant be shed.

Aj I got your point and appreciated you saying ~hey it’s hard and I am not slow either, gives some perspective. I would have just said yes please send me a cookie.

All of those things (shoes and course selection) are perfectly legal and, in my opinion, are just smart tactics. Would you hesitate to use a better shoe in a triathlon? No! Why is a marathon any different?

If he said he was talented and hasn't broken 3, he'd be asked, "define talented." So he pre-empted it with his credentials. From everything I've read on the tri forum, ajt is a solid contributor, and nowhere near a braggart.