LOLZ. There's a couple of those every week.

I believe you might be talking about Seth Davidson and his Cycling in the South Bay blog.

Here is his entry on gravel that got some play here.

This is Seth's MO. He's got a way with words, and can be insightful at times. But sometimes he's got certain angry fetishes that result in weird screeds like this one.

yeah. that's it.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Dude sounds stupid AF, there’s like a zillion runners for each “cyclist”. So yeah, a marathon will have lots of pointy end finishers. Comparing the most popular endurance sport by numbers to gravel racing. Right.

The only real point is maybe the pros getting more media exposure in those gravel events than many lower level UCI events full of pros.

Then again it is a big article when Wiggins suited up for the super local club time trial in full world champs kit. Bigger names.

Maybe I just don't get it but his very premise seems ridiculous. Are there people out there that think a premier gravel event is anything akin to Paris-Roubaix or Flanders? That seems to be to me anyway, the strawman he's railing against.

Indeed.

A blog posting clickbait hot takes against something popular? Inconceivable!

Don’t tell that guy about Ironman (or triathlon in general), his head may explode.

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It seemed like a good idea at the time. . .

Ah, Seth. Guess he came out of his hermit blog retirement phase

If you’ve followed him long enough, everything he does not do sucks and is for losers and everything he does rules.

Until he changes his mind as he used to be a huge BWR promoter but now is one of them bikepackers he’ll deride in a few months

yeah. the one thing i agree with him on is bikepacking. otherwise, i don't think he understands gravel. he seems to think it's road cycling on dirt.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I’ve never ridden gravel, so no input there from me.

I do admire the writing in this screed. I take a tiny issue with his comparing the times between top and bottom riders at the Tour de France with those from gravel racers. If you’re too slow at the tour, you’re dropped from the race, so no comparison.

There’s also a lot of funny in the article. I never thought about a race-themed souvenir bike jersey or many team kits as clown suits, but there you go.

And I love the shade in the kicker at the end (couldn’t possibly be sub-tweeting Slowman, could it) about bikepacking.

The best thing I ever read on that blog — and I think it’s by the same writer — is the legend of Shirtless Keith.

Anyway, thanks for the perspective, Seth!

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Sharon McN
@IronCharo
#TeamZoot
Clif Bar Pace Team 2003-2018

Yes, Shirtless Keith is our local cycling enigma, and they used to ride together when Seth still lived in the area. I've had my a$$ handed to me on many occasions by SK

i just put a little photo essay on SBT GRVL, from which i just returned, on our front page. i mentioned this opinion piece there, and i guess that's my own take on it.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Thank you for sharing the legend of shirtless Keith…I love that!

Sorry I missed you there. Sounds like you enjoyed it, I did too. FYI, I was standing right by Reggie Miller and Molly Cameron at the start of that video on NPR ;)

John Hunt

Another piece thats partly mike-drop and partly whiney and partly just one persons personal experience -


Read Lea Davidsons piece in Velo News about why she is abandoning gravel racing after 1/2 of a season of doing the "live in Vermont and be a gravel influencer" as part of her retirement from Pro Mountain biking.

On the one hand she decides she doesnt personally like gravel racing, on the other hand is a pretty strong opinion about the safety and nature of racing for women in Gravel, which she clearly decided is not for her.

There are a couple of things I don't agree with her on - if you force a police officer corner marshal at every gravel intersection you will raise the costs and end lots of races going on now. I also disagree with her on a Pro Womens start - we already have that in Triathlon and it doesn't prevent interference with other AG athletes and it certainly doesn't guarantee a womens pack race, lots of female athletes end up separated by many minutes over their competitors. She called out men causing crashes in the early parts of races, but men cause crashes for other men, its not just because its because she is a woman pro.


Lea Davison is dropping out of the Life Time Grand Prix series. Here's why - VeloNews.com

the overwhelming problem with professional endurance athletes (in my opinion) is the notion that the sport is there to serve them. that whatever the sport is - triathlon, bicycle road racing, gravel racing - it's got to evolve in their direction or they take issue.

in each of these sports the pros need to carve out their own place. this is what the PTO is doing. or, what it's doing now. even in the earlier moments of the PTO, that org unfortunately set itself against IRONMAN, instead of realizing that IRONMAN could be its most important strategic ally. that's still a bridge that needs to get rebuilt.

i don't see anything in lea's piece that credits these races for what they are, only criticizes these races for what they aren't. and what they aren't is what they aren't for her.

i agree with her that gravel suffers from the same problem as IRONMAN: you have to compete in a survivathon to make a living. or, this was IRONMAN's problem. about 25 years ago IRONMAN solved this by popularizing, and funding, the 70.3 distance. if i ever do produce a gravel race, the longest course will be less than 100 miles.

but i don't whine about unbound's 200 mile event. i just choose not to race it. if lea or seth or anybody else has an issue with gravel - and in both their cases the "problem" is that the pros are not sufficiently catered to - then, where's your race? show us the race you produce? when i looked around and saw races disappearing at an alarming rate, back in the mid/late 1990s, i didn't complain, i bought a truck and trailer and sent drivers around the country producing a dozen races a year, where i felt those races were needed.

less complaining. more fixing.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

It's the problem of wanting the "pro" experience when the money just isn't there to provide it, otherwise known as entitled endurance athlete syndrome.

http://but i don't whine about unbound's 200 mile event. i just choose not to race it.

Come race the 100 instead.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

I think Lea's article was more nuanced than that -- that gravel as a participatory event was good (using Ted King's event as a hallmark), but that gravel as a *professional* event was lacking.

I don't disagree that gravel could improve certain safety aspects -- which probably would improve the pro experience (somebody, anybody, helping out intersections where there can be cross traffic would be a decent start). But gravel also needs to maintain that "run what you brung" and "all bikes, all people welcome" mentality to keep what's special about it.

Outside of the stupid amount of climbing, and the fact that it might be snowing, you'd love Rasputitsa. Longest race is 100K...ish. (sometimes longer, usually shorter). L

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I don't follow or no anything about gravel racing and also assumed it was road racing on dirt. I also assumed it was invented by bike companies to sell more product, I wonder what's next, perhaps bikes that can be raced on water?

exactly. i raced the 60 at steamboat last weekend. i don't ever race the longer races in these gravel events. i don't mind that they exist. and this is the point. i don't complain about the races other people put on. i don't complain about the distance, the money, or any of it, unless there's some obvious breaking of the social contract (it's a scam, it's unsafe). if the race is as advertised, barring an act of god, then the RD can produce what he wants and customers will vote with their feet.

me? i don't like contrived races, so, i don't like contrived features in a race to make it more difficult. but i don't mind that some RDs roll differently. i enter the races i want to enter, i don't enter those i don't want to enter, and i don't complain about the races i don't enter. if the race i want doesn't exist, i'm free to create it.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

i guess i just don't have a finely tuned ear to that nuance. there were a lot of quotes in that piece, and other than a half-dozen words forming a half-sentence in the sum-up, i could not find what you found. the entire rest of the piece was how gravel is a problem, just like seth's piece. but in each case, the "problem" was that it didn't do enough for the pros.

what i find ironic about the harsh in lifetime is that if any of these riders knew the history of lifetime they'd know that it began as a full-throated effort to finally recognized and honor pro triathletes with the payouts that they deserve. this rankled feathers. les macdonald loudly threw lifetime out from under of the federation umbrella, along with ironman (in 2004, only to be quietly reinstated in 2006), because lifetime competed with the cornerbrook ITU race, with a much much larger prize purse. so, if anybody can appreciate the value of the elite athlete it's bahram akradi and lifetime.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I raced SBT GRVL this past weekend, for the second year. I absolutely LOVE this event. So well organized.

Don't know if anyone else noticed this trend but it seems gravel racers believe it to be cool looking to wear "jorts" (jean shorts) and button up hiking shirts when they ride. I saw a few people kitting up like this last year, but saw a lot more this year.