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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
the overwhelming problem with professional endurance athletes (in my opinion) is the notion that the sport is there to serve them. that whatever the sport is - triathlon, bicycle road racing, gravel racing - it's got to evolve in their direction or they take issue.

in each of these sports the pros need to carve out their own place. this is what the PTO is doing. or, what it's doing now. even in the earlier moments of the PTO, that org unfortunately set itself against IRONMAN, instead of realizing that IRONMAN could be its most important strategic ally. that's still a bridge that needs to get rebuilt.

i don't see anything in lea's piece that credits these races for what they are, only criticizes these races for what they aren't. and what they aren't is what they aren't for her.

i agree with her that gravel suffers from the same problem as IRONMAN: you have to compete in a survivathon to make a living. or, this was IRONMAN's problem. about 25 years ago IRONMAN solved this by popularizing, and funding, the 70.3 distance. if i ever do produce a gravel race, the longest course will be less than 100 miles.

but i don't whine about unbound's 200 mile event. i just choose not to race it. if lea or seth or anybody else has an issue with gravel - and in both their cases the "problem" is that the pros are not sufficiently catered to - then, where's your race? show us the race you produce? when i looked around and saw races disappearing at an alarming rate, back in the mid/late 1990s, i didn't complain, i bought a truck and trailer and sent drivers around the country producing a dozen races a year, where i felt those races were needed.

less complaining. more fixing.

Slowtwitch REALLY needs a like button! This post is so well-said.
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I may have had more reading than just the VeloNews thing -- but that's also because Rooted is in my backyard.

But, showing my love for gravel, I might just be stupid enough to hop into Overland next weekend. (Don't tell the Mrs.) But I am intrigued to see the differences in it versus, say, Rasputitsa. For example, Overland is self-nav. Rasputitsa has signage. I'm not gonna knock the self-nav bit till I try it. But my initial inclination is -- what do you mean there's no course marking?

Again, though, I don't think it'd kill gravel to have some more course marshals at key intersections / potentially dangerous places.

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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There was a little more technical terrain, plus a very small water crossing on the 100/142 courses. Two sections with single and double track. Last year, I handled these with ease. This year, a deep hole took me out (for a few seconds) and I ended up with a broken rib (or two)....that hurt to finish.

The SBT GRVL initiative of All Bodies on Bikes was neat. I saw some of these folks really struggling on the hills on the course. Every time I saw one, I tried giving them encouragement. I love to see people giving it their best shot.

I was in the group with Reggie Miller for a bit. He is a strong rider.
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [EyeRunMD] [ In reply to ]
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EyeRunMD wrote:

Don't know if anyone else noticed this trend but it seems gravel racers believe it to be cool looking to wear "jorts" (jean shorts) and button up hiking shirts when they ride. I saw a few people kitting up like this last year, but saw a lot more this year.

Maybe gravel cyclists are taking a page from the motorcyclist handbook......don't dress for the ride, dress for the crash.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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japarker24 wrote:
EyeRunMD wrote:


Don't know if anyone else noticed this trend but it seems gravel racers believe it to be cool looking to wear "jorts" (jean shorts) and button up hiking shirts when they ride. I saw a few people kitting up like this last year, but saw a lot more this year.


Maybe gravel cyclists are taking a page from the motorcyclist handbook......don't dress for the ride, dress for the crash.

Nah, they are doing it to be trendy. I'm old so I don't get it.
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [EyeRunMD] [ In reply to ]
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EyeRunMD wrote:
There was a little more technical terrain, plus a very small water crossing on the 100/142 courses. Two sections with single and double track. Last year, I handled these with ease. This year, a deep hole took me out (for a few seconds) and I ended up with a broken rib (or two)....that hurt to finish.

The SBT GRVL initiative of All Bodies on Bikes was neat. I saw some of these folks really struggling on the hills on the course. Every time I saw one, I tried giving them encouragement. I love to see people giving it their best shot.

I was in the group with Reggie Miller for a bit. He is a strong rider.

i saw reggie a couple of times on the course. he was all business. yeah, the wife and i rode the 60, which was about all i could handle. (coming back from an ablation, 2 rides in 4 months prior to this.) i guess i spoke to soon on the technical features. on the other hand, BWR in san diego is or was routinely won on a road bike, and that thing has some pretty technical elements.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:

exactly. i raced the 60 at steamboat last weekend. i don't ever race the longer races in these gravel events. i don't mind that they exist. and this is the point. i don't complain about the races other people put on. i don't complain about the distance, the money, or any of it, unless there's some obvious breaking of the social contract (it's a scam, it's unsafe). if the race is as advertised, barring an act of god, then the RD can produce what he wants and customers will vote with their feet.

me? i don't like contrived races, so, i don't like contrived features in a race to make it more difficult. but i don't mind that some RDs roll differently. i enter the races i want to enter, i don't enter those i don't want to enter, and i don't complain about the races i don't enter. if the race i want doesn't exist, i'm free to create it.

When is this happening and where can I sign up? I'll get my out of shape butt back on the bike for this.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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ironclm wrote:
Slowman wrote:


exactly. i raced the 60 at steamboat last weekend. i don't ever race the longer races in these gravel events. i don't mind that they exist. and this is the point. i don't complain about the races other people put on. i don't complain about the distance, the money, or any of it, unless there's some obvious breaking of the social contract (it's a scam, it's unsafe). if the race is as advertised, barring an act of god, then the RD can produce what he wants and customers will vote with their feet.

me? i don't like contrived races, so, i don't like contrived features in a race to make it more difficult. but i don't mind that some RDs roll differently. i enter the races i want to enter, i don't enter those i don't want to enter, and i don't complain about the races i don't enter. if the race i want doesn't exist, i'm free to create it.


When is this happening and where can I sign up? I'll get my out of shape butt back on the bike for this.

i had a course pretty well designed. with permissions from property owners, and buy-in from the town. the problem was the difficulty. it really was an MTB course. so, i abandoned that one and i'm on the hunt for something else. unfortunately it can't really be around me.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [EyeRunMD] [ In reply to ]
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EyeRunMD wrote:
Nah, they are doing it to be trendy. I'm old so I don't get it.

The only thing that bothers me about the gravel culture is the flask thing. I was at one gravel race pre-ride and there were a group of gravel racer cool kids passing around a flask. And at least one high profile pro loves to show off drinking from a flask.

I'm not anti-alcohol. I totally get the gravel-beer connection, enjoy the post-race beer gardens, etc. Would have no problem with a post-race cocktail garden.

I just don't think drinking from a flask pre-race or mid-race is cool at all, particularly for pros.




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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:


exactly. i raced the 60 at steamboat last weekend. i don't ever race the longer races in these gravel events. i don't mind that they exist. and this is the point. i don't complain about the races other people put on. i don't complain about the distance, the money, or any of it, unless there's some obvious breaking of the social contract (it's a scam, it's unsafe). if the race is as advertised, barring an act of god, then the RD can produce what he wants and customers will vote with their feet.

me? i don't like contrived races, so, i don't like contrived features in a race to make it more difficult. but i don't mind that some RDs roll differently. i enter the races i want to enter, i don't enter those i don't want to enter, and i don't complain about the races i don't enter. if the race i want doesn't exist, i'm free to create it.

Preach.

A part of gravel I don't like is that people (entrants, media, fanbois) treat the distances as a caste system among entrants. Ohhhhhh, you only chose to do the 50 miler. Tisk tisk tisk. Well we're doing the 100 miler and Bobby is doing the 200 XXXXXXXXL event.

You can kinda see it with roadie fondos also. The gnarliest elevation/distance combo gets the most attention.

Intensity is also difficult, not just distance. I mean, the hour record is one of the most highly regarded cycling accomplishments and it is.........wait for it...........an hour long.
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
EyeRunMD wrote:

Nah, they are doing it to be trendy. I'm old so I don't get it.


The only thing that bothers me about the gravel culture is the flask thing. I was at one gravel race pre-ride and there were a group of gravel racer cool kids passing around a flask. And at least one high profile pro loves to show off drinking from a flask.

I'm not anti-alcohol. I totally get the gravel-beer connection, enjoy the post-race beer gardens, etc. Would have no problem with a post-race cocktail garden.

I just don't think drinking from a flask pre-race or mid-race is cool at all, particularly for pros.




I don't care about the drinking but that's just trying too hard to be cool.
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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That is because nobody wants to compete head to head any more, and if you do, you have to sign up for the race with the deepest field, which trending towards the longer events...

No worries, 'cross is here (well next week it is here).

Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Flask during a ride? No. Beer after? Yes. Not a Laufing matter.


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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Slowman and All,

Seth is living in the mountains ... generally barefoot ... and not bathing or cutting his hair or beard ... hiking and riding his bike ...

In previous years he cranked out an essay every day ... and most were very interesting ... generally had a bicycle mentioned ... but 'It's not about the bike' ...

After a couple of years off the grid he is starting to put out an essay each day again.

You are not alone in seeking out his writing ...... it is very good .... and while a bike is often mentioned ... 'It's not about the bike.'

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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i read it sometime over the last month or so. cycling tips or cycling weekly or some of those. some guy whining about gravel; how it needs to be this or isn't that or something.


The whole Gravel scene is growing and evolving quickly - in some cases explosively! The pandemic, put things on hold for 2 years from a race/event perspective, but the demand/interest just kept growing and growing. Then races/events came back - particularly in the U.S. and kaboom!

In some respects having been there myself, it reminds me a lot of the early days of triathlon - a bit renegade, a bit wild west - then people wanted to come in with rules, and some discipline, standardizations, and some of the "originals" got their backs all up!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Aug 29, 22 6:38
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Just wait until you see what we’re putting together for FNLD GRVL. It’s the most fun and unique gravel route I’ve ever ridden.
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Just wait until you see what we’re putting together for FNLD GRVL. It’s the most fun and unique gravel route I’ve ever ridden.

Great article here, Chris from what you, Micah and the rest of the team discovered over there in Finland - https://www.cyclingweekly.com/...ravels-next-frontier

You'll find many similar kinds of routes and roads in Northern Ontario. Many Finns who immigrated to Canada settled in places like Sault St Marie, North Bay and Thunder Bay because the terrain and the climate was so similar to their original home in Finland!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
Just wait until you see what we’re putting together for FNLD GRVL. It’s the most fun and unique gravel route I’ve ever ridden.

June. Damnit. If my wife wasn't a teacher I'd be there.
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I keep reading the title as "Winery Option"

Sorry

Carry on

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, it’s mostly dependent on the F1 schedule and when Valtteri has an open weekend. With SBT already in August doing 2 events that month would be a tall ask.
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks. I was keen to see Anne-Marije’s (who wrote that story) opinion as I have a lot of respect for her, and she shoots straight.
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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I think the best winery option near you is the White Horse Winery in Hammonton.

I'll see myself out now.
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [TBV Runner] [ In reply to ]
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TBV Runner wrote:
I think the best winery option near you is the White Horse Winery in Hammonton.

I'll see myself out now.

I run by Almathea on the regular
Sharrott is really good
Blue Cork is convenient to the whole family

The list goes on

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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way better than when Renault was the only game in town!
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Re: Remind me where that whiney opinion piece was on gravel [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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I read "entitled endurance athlete syndrome" and my brain started writing a commercial for it like one of those "Won't you please help" ones from the nineties complete with gravel riders being forced to ride on non epic terrain and the beer tent running dry.

Maybe we could put on a bike race fundraiser to help...nah, they'd still complain.
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