Easy solution. both pay attention to it. Your not forced to participate. Though IMO it's respectful to at least remain silent, rather than continue conversation with friends.

Freedom of religion is intended IMO, to be primary about tolerance and allowing others to practice, and separating church and state, rather than about giving equal opportunities in all public forums and protecting everyone's fragile belief structures.

I'm in the midwest. I'd say that a good 3/4 of the races I participate in have a prayer before the start. I'd say most seem to appreciate and participate in it. Everyone seems to at least respect it and remain silent. Races can be dangerous. People have died. It's a bit arrogant and ignorant to think that it couldn't possible happen to you. It won't hurt to prepare yourself for the end, prepare your soul or whatever you think happens after you get your ticket punched. It's also worth reminding yourself how lucky you are to be able to compete, as there are plenty of folks that are physically unable to do so.... and not by choice.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Wow - and here I thought that atheists were generally intelligent, reasonable people, but this thread leads me to believe that a lot of them are just as fucked up as the other end of the religion spectrum.


/SMH

I agree.

I wouldn't put my self in the full atheist category, but strongly in the religion as we know it is messed up, when I participate in an event: triathlon, running race, swim meet, family dinner, or other event that includes an opening prayer - I respect the freedom that they have to believe what they believe, and the freedom I have to believe what I believe. I bow my head, keep my mouth shut and think about how fortunate I am to be alive, be where I am today, and to live in a place that for the most part encourages diversity and tolerance.

Same here ^^^^. But doesn't mean I have to like it.

I'm not a pure atheist either. More along the agnostic road. And I don't push any agenda. My parents are very religious (but not pushy about it at all) and gave us each the option to go or not as we became teenagers. Telling that all 4 of their sons opted out of religion as soon as the choice became available.

While the second comment I made was obviously snarky, I am becoming more firmly in the camp that religion should just go away ...... it certainly has its merits for keeping people in line (and supporting the arts and such in the middle ages), but anyone with even a moderate level of intelligence should be questioning any belief in some sort of higher power having any single care about what a person does.

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Rick, "Retired" hobbyist athlete
Trying to come back slowly from acute A-Fib

What IS an atheist?
"a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods."
It describes nothing more about their character than that.

I don't think that the USAT has taken any stance on religion in races. They neither permit nor discourage. They are not a government entity.

USAT also doesn't take a stance on what kind of music is at a race. I would find this thread equally hilarious if the theme were changed to "Country Music at Races: Your Thoughts". Now, personally, I'm not a fan of either country music nor religion at races, but I'm certainly not holding the USAT accountable for either.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Did the prayer include anything about praying for only the Christians in the race? Or was it the RDs prayer based on his beliefs to ask for safety for everyone at the race. If someone wishes me a safe and fun race, I say thanks, regardless of race, religion, or preference.

If it was a Muslim prayer and it mentioned "harm infidels", I would take offense. But if they prayed to keep everyone safe (specifically mentioning infidels or not) I would say thanks. Same as if it were a Jewish prayer and they mentioned keeping the everyone safe (Gentiles too). I would say thanks.

If it is an agnostic race with no prayer, I say a silent prayer for everyone to have a safe race.

Not sure how having other people say good things for you, based on their beliefs, could be harmful to you.

If you infer shame from a well wish, then I would think you are reading to much into the prayer. But I don't live in your shoes, nor have I walked in them.

I will say a prayer for you to have a safe race at your next event. I do not require you to accept or appreciate the act. I just hope, and pray, that you do.

As I said, the national anthem is about a lot more than those who made sacrifices.

And if you can show me where I said ANYTHING about not respecting the national anthem, that would be great.

In the meantime, please spare me "feel free to leave" cr@p...which, by the way, is pretty much a mindless mentality.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

^^Yes. This.^^

Many are just the flip side of the same coin....holding just as passionately to their beliefs and dismissing those who don't agree. Doesn't necessarily matter what the belief is, just in how they express and defend it.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Amen x2 at 66

I raced the Carolina Half here in Charlotte this past weekend. Half way through the bike course, outside a tiny country church were a bunch of fat church guys holding up signs saying "YOU ARE BEING PRAYED FOR". I yelled "THANKS!" and was genuinely grateful. If someone wants to pray for me, no matter what religion they subscribe to, I'm genuinely grateful. It's such a kind thing to do. This is what the race director at Wildflower was doing for you.

As a praying person myself, I am continually praying for others racing out on the same course I am; protection from cars, help getting up that huge run hill, help not feeling as crappy as I am, etc. If you don't want me praying for you, tough, I'm going to do it anyways. :)

If the race director wants prayer, or not, I wouldn't hold it against them. The RD's primary concern is the well being of the race. If he subscribes to prayer actually working in real life (which I can attest to on so many occasions), it would be foolish and wrong for him to NOT pray over his race. No one forces anyone to bow their heads and pray. It may not be a religiously affiliated race, but this is a religiously affiliated world, so don't be so sensitive, or easily offended, or worry that other people might be. It's out of a genuine kindness that people would pray for you, you certainly don't deserve it.

I apologize, I mistook your jargon of "'Murica...Love it or leave it!!, FOOK YEAH!!!!" and the quote about wondering if you needed the pink as some sort of distaste for national anthem. I am sorry if I misunderstood your sentiment.

Do you think praying over the loudspeaker works better with the big guy than a silent prayer?

It never really bothers me, but I do think it's awkward. It would be like the owner of a restaurant coming to my table and asking me to join them in the blessing before my food arrives. Sure they can, and sure I don't have to come back, but it's just a little awkward. Now if I was in someone's house as a guest, I wouldn't think twice about them saying the blessing before we share a meal.

Agreed. I think they open it up to all races, religions and creeds, etc. If someone wants to pray for me then that's fine, I personally don't mind, but I can easily see how others can quickly be offended. Again more of a question of have people seen this before at races and what are their reactions to it. Also USAT by-laws state they are open to all religions, creeds, races, etc. so having one predominantly displayed at a USAT sanctioned race threw me. I respectfully listened and went about my day, no harm no foul, just made me go hmmm. I won't be writing USAT to complain, I was more asking the internet for their thoughts on this. Obviously I am new to the internet.

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Beyond Aero

"Grind it til' you find it..."

As an atheist who grew up in a family of speaking-in-tongues evangelicals, I generally agree with your first paragraph. Assuming, that is, that they're praying for my general well-being. I do get a little bothered when someone says they are praying for my soul, and things along those lines. In my mind it's the equivalent of me saying to someone that they are in my thoughts.

I also agree with what was said above by someone, that this isn't actually a USAT thing. Sure, they would probably like to have their races be all-inclusive (qualifications aside), but unless races start saying you can only race if you're born-again or something, I doubt they will, or should, step in.

That said, I don't feel that a sectarian prayer should be a part of what is ostensibly a secular event. It is quite literally the equivalent of having a race and saying something like "we're happy that everyone is here to race, especially straight people, because we believe you're lifestyle is best."

Would a refuse to do a race because of something like that? I have only had one race (at least that I can remember) that had a definitively sectarian pre-race prayer, but I haven't been back to that for logistical reasons. I'm not sure that I'd attend it again, however.

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Yes, I know it's grammatically incorrect. Blame AOL and their 90s-era character limits.
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I was going to say that I am about as anti-religion as you can be and I pretty much just ignore prayers at public events. But this is too far. They can have their religion but don't mess with our boobs.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

OMG someone said a prayer!!!! Stand and fight!! I'M A VICTIM!!!!!!!! I'll need decades of counseling because I had to endure the trauma of listening to someone pray for safety, fair competition and strength to all during an athletic event. My rights have been violated!!!! Where is my lawyer? Where is a journalist to whom I can relay my pitiful story of abuse and deep emotional suffering? I'll need to be compensated for all of this, assuming I don't die from the trauma.

If you are agnostic as you claim and not atheist, then you would not have an agenda. You cannot say that religion has no place because you simply don't know if atheism or theism is right. Maybe religion does have its place, according to your agnostic view.

I don't see who it would hurt for a prayer to be said before a race.

Edited to add : Unless the prayer goes off on some sort of tangent that condemns others or for others to change there ways. I am betting the prayer did nothing like this. It probably went more along the lines of hoping everyone remains safe.

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I ran. I ran until my muscles burned and my veins pumped battery acid. Then I ran some more.

I'm an atheist. Prayers don't bother me. I tend to ignore them. I also don't feel the need to stop and stand quietly while someone prays. I continue whatever I was doing. This tends to offend people who pray. Not something I care about.

Sadly, I've long since come to the conclusion that the publicly displayed belief structure choose by an individual, is a poor indicator of the behaviors and traits they posses, including open mindedness, morality, greed, honesty and corruptibility.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

All religions are exclusionary, divisive and intolerant of those who don't believe in their particular myth. It's mission to explicitly to separate the flock for the final days.

There are a couple very popular ones (Buddhist and Hindu come to mind) that are not dogmatic and intolerant, but rather experiential and philosophical.

Really? My son is career Army. Going on his 4th tour in a war. I have never equated the national anthem as expressing gratitude for his service. It is a national anthem. Not a memorial song.

If the biggest complaint that you have with a race is that they said a prayer over a loudspeaker, or stopped for the national anthem, then I'd say it's a pretty great race.

Seriously, when did we all get so uber-sensitive? Isn't the whole point of triathlon succeeding through suffering?

The Supreme Court thinks it's just fine to collapse the separation of church and state,

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/...e_churches050218.php

So there's not much hope of keeping religion out of races..
My objection is as Ed says, "Corporate prayer is meaningless if it does not invoke the beliefs of the community for which it is offered."
A broadcast prayer at races either:
1. assumes we are all the same faith, which betrays the ideals of our founders and is profoundly anti-American (in the special USA sense); or
2. is meaningless prattle, a devaluation of the faith it purports to be expressing, which is offensive to the members of that faith.
As Jesus taught his followers, Matthew 6:5 as noted above,
"And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words."

I still have the US History study paper for my Naturalization Civics Test, which says,
"Freedom of Religion
The right for people to choose how to worship or to not worship at all."
If prayer is not worship, then it is nothing at all.

Luckily as Dahlia Lithwick says at Slate, "you are free to sit quietly and give thanks that you still live in a free country. Amen."
Guess that's the best we can do in our fallen days..