The way I see it, religion is a fact. Even if I see it as a big delusion, I am ok with people hanging on their delusions. So in my book, you can pray, sing, dance to the big "up the mountain god" or kill a chicken and smear its blood on your fourhead.

I don't care. I also don't care, if you sing national anthems and whatnot.

I won't participate and I will have my thoughts about the participants, but it does not disturb me one bit. It amuses me, how people fall for nationalism and invented religions though :-)

Well said.

End of thread.

People hanging onto their own ill-conceived delusions is one thing, people foisting said delusions on others is an entirely different matter altogether. THAT'S what this thread is about. That's the salient issue. And that's what some people in this thread are so blithely ignoring.

Because it's this inability to either understand or accept that other people don't buy into such nonsense which lends itself to greater issues: the assault on science, on homosexual marriage, on Islam, etc., etc. All led by conservative "Christian" groups steeped in ignorance and obliviousness who think the whole world should believe as they do lest they wind up in whatever warped rendition of hell they've invented.

And that is something to care about. Because that is something that affects our society as a whole in an increasingly negative way.

While I agree with you, who am I to say that other people's thoughts and beliefs are harmful to society? Should I impart my beliefs on other people, and if so, how is that different than their religious and nationalistic mantras? It's a rhetorical question, but one I struggle with daily. In short order, I live my life as honestly as possible, and hope that my example rubs off on other people.

Start with truth and the facts, to be frank. Leave "beliefs" out of it. All of the things I've mentioned are a result of ignorance. And instead of making up a bunch of stuff and using a 2000 year old collection of myths as a basis for "spreading the word", there's actual science, history, and data.

Honesty doesn't solve anything. Do you think any of these young-Earth, homophobic, Islam-hating Christians hellbent on explaining to you how you're eternally damned if you don't buy into their mythology are being dishonest? That they're trying to mislead you or bamboozle you?

People buy into this religion thing wholeheartedly because they were either raised on it and/or they have a psychological need to believe that there's a benevolent being that wants the best for them and their loved ones for all eternity. Honesty has no impact on any of it.

There is an inconsistency that in my opinion, most Christians seem to be unaware of. They want the right to say their prayer. But they tend to ignore that there are over 4,000 religions in the world and when one of those want to hold their religious event in public, it is often opposed by them.

How many posters on ST argued "just get over it"? Yet that is not the position taken by the Catholic church when the tables are turned.

Case in point from Friday of this week.


CBS NewsMay 9, 2014, 2:21 PM
Catholic Church denounces planned satanic mass at Harvard

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- A reenactment of a Black Mass celebrating Satan is scheduled to take place at Harvard University on Monday evening. It has outraged the Catholic Church, but the group holding the event says it's educational.

WBZ-TV reports the Harvard Extension Cultural Studies Club is hosting the Satanic Temple from New York. The Black Mass is scheduled for Monday night in the basement of Memorial Hall.

"It's kind of troubling especially to Christians, but at the same time if they're doing it for academic inquiry, this should be a safe place," said Misan Oteri, student.

"It is still heavily offending a group. And, what's the purpose?" student Farhad Dokhani said.

"Educational purposes definitely give you a reason to look into anything," student Laureen Brady said.

The club released the following statement:
We are hosting a reenactment of a historical event known as a Black Mass. The performance is designed to be educational and is preceded by a lecture that provides the history, context, and origin of the Black Mass. While a piece of bread is used in the reenactment, the performance unequivocally does not include a consecrated host. Our purpose is not to denigrate any religion or faith, which would be repugnant to our educational purposes, but instead to learn and experience the history of different cultural practices. This performance is part of a larger effort to explore religious facets that continue to influence contemporary culture.


The Archdiocese of Boston wants Harvard to put a stop to the event saying: The Catholic community in the Archdiocese of Boston expresses its deep sadness and strong opposition to the plan to stage a "black mass" on the campus of Harvard University in Cambridge.


For the good of the Catholic faithful and all people, the Church provides clear teaching concerning Satanic worship. This activity separates people from God and the human community, it is contrary to charity and goodness, and it places participants dangerously close to destructive works of evil.


In a recent statement, Pope Francis warned of the danger of being naïve about or underestimating the power of Satan, whose evil is too often tragically present in our midst. We call upon all believers and people of good will to join us in prayer for those who are involved in this event, that they may come to appreciate the gravity of their actions, and in asking Harvard to disassociate itself from this activity.

In response to the Black Mass the archdiocese is holding a holy hour starting at 8 p.m. on Monday at St. Paul's Church, which is also the Catholic Church at Harvard.

Harvard University says it supports the rights of students and faculty.

hilarious leaps you make here.

You almost have to applaud the imagination and zeal. Personally, I couldn't make up stuff like this.

Yes! Quirky comments make the best rebuttals! Well played.

I wonder if Slowman would feel similarly "defrauded" if he found just water instead of Gatorade and water, as advertised, at a run aid station?

Booom!!! again.

You might have a change of heart when Lucifer puts his spear up your ass.

Which leap? The one where (Christian) religion is often being used as the basis for US laws? The one where allowing other religions equal consideration is called an attack on Christianity?

Anyone who thinks there's a war on Christianity in this country should try being atheist.

---

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Why are you allowing this thread to continue here on the triathlon forum. It stopped having anything to do with triathlon a long time ago.

Do we bother you with our Christmas lights? Can't you use the prayer time as a moment of self reflection or self focus?
You seem angry and intolerant.
Peace brother

---

Team Zoot So Cal

"leaps"


faith = ill-conceived delusions
prayer for safety = foisting said delusions
religion = nonsense
someone who holds a different belief = groups steeped in ignorance and obliviousness


Just noting that for all the talk in this thread about respecting people of all beliefs and religions, it seems to be cool and acceptable to blather on about how idiotic Christians are.

As has been stated previously, obviously we 'could'. We choose not to. Just as you 'could choose' not to be offended when we don't stop our activities because someone or a group 'chooses' to pray.

Choice is a two way street.

I do not care what you do during someone's prayer. It is a public place. You were the one sounding intolerant. I wil admit I have not read the 20 pages. I was responding to the last posting I read. I apologize if you are more tolerant than many on here.

---

Team Zoot So Cal

I'm not sure if you're replying to me or someone else.

Christmas lights have nothing to do with religion, so why would they bother me? I'd expect a Christian to be more bothered by Christmas lights than an atheist (reason for the season and all). And I'd expect such a person to be quite silly indeed.

So you're replying to me. So I'll answer.

I don't respect religious beliefs at all. They're silly and based on delusion and insecurity. I respect a belief in a specific deity no more than I'd respect a toddler's belief in Santa Claus. And at least they can go sit on his lap!

And when those beliefs impact my life, then I will comment on them.

It's not about someone holding a different belief, it's about them projecting that belief on a captive and/or gullible audience or using that belief as a reason for instituting specific rules, laws, etc.

I mentioned a number of things: creationism in schools, homophobic behavior, intolerance of Islam (insert religion of the month). Those types of behaviors and ideologies ARE steeped in ignorance and obliviousness. You don't have to be a Christian to harbor such beliefs. And certainly not all Christians do. But that's beside the point. And that point is it's ignorant no matter the group. Do you disagree?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, other than Christians are idiots and oblivious who are intolerant of all sort of people/things. That's fine if you think that, but you use complete intolerance when making your argument. I just find this amusing. I truly hope you do not become the thing that you hate.

So, I was just noodling around looking for Escape From Alcatraz tips, and I see several reports about the RD offering a short prayer on the boat before the jump

I can't imagine how apoplectic that would make some people on this thread, you're stuck on a friggin BOAT having to listen to a prayer??? Oh. Mah. Gawd!!!!!!!

So, I guess Escape From Alcatraz is another bucket list race those folks up there ^^ will never do.... [yeah right]

Here here. Or, try being a satanist. You can get your children taken away, lose your job, be ostracized, etc... That's REAL persecution.

As an atheist, I've had my life threatened.

I worry about one day in the future, the Christians coming around door to door and rounding up the nonbelievers. Seriously.

Man I can't believe some of you get offended so easily. complaining about something like a prayer before a race come on now really...go and have a good time or just stay home and pout in your room, you have a choice not to go. Just my two cents