I'm not sure you know the definition of "know".

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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are you serious? Sorry if I should have wrote I believe in theory, I've read in theory.... Pretty sure you have an understanding of my question, sorry if I confused you.

I'm not 'keto' but high fat low carb so similar but I am not scared of carbs to eat in general or racing but generally during or after training sessions. I often do my morning training session just on a fat black or bulletproof coffee whatever you want to call it. As training and racing fuel I have been using Generation Ucan. It works and I like you don't get the same peaks and troughs as you do on sugar but it doesn't mix well with water and can be a pain in the arse. For the run I go to Vfuel gels that contain MCT oil. At some stage I will turn to coke in IM but that is generally where I feel like it on the course. I always carry bananas training on the bike as well.

Have a look at Dan Plews fastest AG at Kona last year blog and youtube videos. He is HFLC diet. His race day breakfast is Ucan and eggs. I often have a fat black coffee and Ucan before a race.

https://www.plewsandprof.com/blog

awesome! Thanks for the advise and link :O)

Yeah the "theory" is so good that Team Sky and half the pro peleton are on a ketogenic diet and doing intermittent fasting. Oh wait, they aren't...

So what? Not everybody's needs, age and genetics are the same.

What works for some might not work for others. By your way of reasoning it seems you would recommend what riders at sky eat to an overweight middle aged guy with diabetes.

This is why we have research. People drink their own pee, their dogs pee, believe the earth is flat and that water has healing powers. Thermodynamics is real. LCHF is not. Its not controversial in its own right, but when people fool uneducated people, it tastes a bit foul to me :)

Good for the Inuit that they didn't read research papers, otherwise they would have become extinct!

Who said fat is dangerous? LCHF is the other way around. If someone told you carbs somehow know how to trick thermodynamics, you probably wouldn't believe them :)

Well Sky and others in the pro peloton are using ketone drinks, which is effectively a (very expensive) way of getting the benefits of a ketogenic diet instantly and without having to actually do the diet.

Ketogenic diet and fasting isn't going to work for pros who are cycling 30+ hours a week, would be impossible to fuel their workouts. It's much more possible for a time-restricted AGer, and the fact that pro teams are spending $30-40 per serving of ketone drink (apparently) suggests there may be benefits to a ketogenic diet worth exploring.

Sorry for the snark. It's just there is not a shred of data that shows keto is good for endurance athletes. The very very few who go fast on it are fast in spite of their diet, not because of it.

Improvement in fat burning can be done without keto.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

I've been following Vinnie Tortorich and his NSNG diet. It's very similar to Keto. For either diet, there is one lingering question that I can't get a definitive answer on. I'm thoroughly convinced that-- day to day-- low/no carb is the best way to loose weight and improve body composition. But I'm not at all convinced that racing on low/no carbs is in any way beneficial. In other words, I've seen nothing definitive that says using your body's fat stores during a race is somehow more efficient than a banana, gel, gatorade, etc.

I do have a recommendation. Learn how to test your blood for ketones. I've learned a lot about how my body burns fat by taking periodic measurements.

And the reason why they use ketone drinks is because they can get the benefits without loosing the high end power which you lose on a ketogenic diet. There is no logical bridge from there to exploding a ketogenic diet.

... or, given that we are talking scientific evidence, 'theory'.

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https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com

 

Actually, Inuit who go into keto did almost become extinct. Keto is apparently so detrimental to survival that in the evolutionary short period they've been up there (they're not an ancient people group), most of them now have a genetic trait that keeps them from going into ketosis that is almost unheard of in the rest of the population. The Inuit are a strong argument that long-term keto must be a very bad thing.

It’s just a fad, like many other diet trends we seee come and go.

The tried and true method of fueling is carb the f$&k up!

If anything, from professional triathlete and runner interviews, who call keto diet a mere trend, say they file primarily with carbs, and supplement their diet with plenty of proteins.

The one and ONLY ONE segment of the population to have been scientifically shown to benefit from Keto is autistic children. Seizures have been lessened. Otherwise, not 1 true peer reviewed study has shown a benefit, and many have shown detrimental results, especially in short efforts.

Reverse type 2 diabetes:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC1325029/

I also like to fuel up with lots of carbs. And in fact due to my lean nature and usual habit of 2x day workouts, going into ketosis isn’t a normal occurrence.

It has been in the past, when I cut from 230lbs to 172lbs on a planned cut from a planned weight gain.

I think I could get a little bit leaner though for a Sunday 70.3 race.

I haven’t had anything for 14.5hrs - day 1 of fast - gonna see how long I can hold out today.

I’m still gonna eat a shit ton before the race. I burn calories like a mofo and the swim + bike should be easy for me with a full stomach so I don’t have to refuel or hit a wall.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Thanks! Did not know of that one. Leaves most of us out still.

Hey Kiwi Spud,
https://www.sfuelsgolonger.com/quickstarts

I will probably regret posting this but the story is relevant. LCHF works for me.
In 2016 I went 4:47 at IM Florida 70.3 on little carbs because I didn't know any better. Was my second 70.3 and mostly trained with water because it was free. In 2017 I wanted to go faster so I started training with carbs and went 5:30 at IM Florida 70.3 on stomach pains, fell apart at IM Raleigh 70.3 feeling like shit and walked over 7 hours to finish IMFL with pins, needless, gas and everything else bubbling in my stomach. I switched to KETO in Jan. 2018 and then moved into LCHF, finished 8thOA in my first 70.3 feeling amazing, went 4:40 during a bike build, little running and no taper at IM Gulf Coast 70.3 (last minute decision) and just won HITS Ocala 70.3 last weekend in 4:29, running a 1:27, without my bike rear diluted EFS-Pro bottle (top was broke). That included 56 miles of rumble strips on the bike and over 9 miles of Florida sand on the run. Not once have I felt like shit while training LCHF or racing. IT WORKS regardless of what people say on here. I do race with carbs but not a lot of carbs which is why my stomach can handle it. Knowing higher fat burning happens at lower HR, when I couldn't get nutrition out of rear bottle at the turn around, I grabbed a gel ~30 grams, and lowered my cadence to lower my HR. I knew that would increase fat oxidation to help supplement calories. I also knew I could possibly blow up my legs since I refused to lower my power with that low cadence but somehow I was able to run a PR off the bike on a difficult course. What have I changed? My diet. Nothing else. My daily carb intake is between 30-75 carbs depending on what I feel like eating. I don't specifically pre-load with any carbs before or during workouts regardless if it's Tuesday night Slowtwitch ride, 2 hour run or 4 hour ride with a brick run after. On bricks I drink SFuels for the run portion. Water and salt only for bike. My long bike pre-workout meal is typically an avocado and some bacon. It works for me but I understand it's not for everybody.

I put a Quickstart guide link here. If you have question feel free to PM me to avoid any noise.

I will say, in defense of the high carb crowd, I had a higher bike FTP in 2017, on carbs, but it didn't matter since it didn't translate during my races.

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http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

You mean epileptic, not autistic.

It works for type 2 diabetes, but no better than any other low-cal diet.

Are they known for being endurance athletes?