Dreitz had one on say no more... They are cooler than most other aero helmets out there which out trumps the marginal aero factor at Kona for most.

They wanted the least aero helmet they could find so he would punch a bigger hole in the air for Lange.

Haha them crafty Germans!

Not test data, but a summary from a respected source.

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6146449#p6146449

He did a Q and A with Garneau people in you tube. He said on there they were 25 or 28 he did know it seemed. No mention of 23.

Ya what's the wrong saddle part about?

The video posted earlier and this one both show 23mm GP4K: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7_UcBCLkPM

Something along the lines of pelvic tilt not letting the athlete rotate enough to settle into their aerobars.

I’m not sure how people can quantify this from a photo taken at a random point in time. I’m sure if a pro has chosen to ride a particular saddle for 180km then it’s going to be ‘comfy’ for them and they’d argue they haven’t chosen the wrong saddle.

I would guess (not saying I no what the op had in mind) lack of ability on the said saddle to rotate hips.

EDIT: I didn't see previous post.

Yes, it is FSA wireless. Saw it in person weeks before she got to Kona. Intererting she used a full on aero helmet as she was talking about using the Kask Utopia before she left for Kona.

You are definitely on the right path regarding the pelvic tilt. If the pelvis is well-supported in a manner that doesn't create discomfort, the spine will be neutral. I tend to think of the spine extending from the pelvis. If you look at the back and it is excessively rounded, that's often an indication that the rider is subconsciously feeling and reacting to some discomfort in the saddle/genital area when they get down into a position where they can reach the bars. When I say "excessively", I mean like a cat. Some roundness is good - like the Golden Gate Bridge - but the musculature needs to be relaxed. At the same time, this has to be balanced against tilting the saddle nose down so far the rider is falling off the saddle and they are putting more strain on the upper body. It's a delicate balance, and two-tenths of a degree can make a big difference.

Pictures often don't do it justice, but in some cases, it's pretty obvious. We also don't necessarily know the entire story on these fits - maybe the rider is sponsored by a saddle manufacturer and ended up with the least worst option. Maybe they have something medical going on. Maybe they just haven't tried everything and don't know what good feels like. So many variables and we're all an asymmetrical pile of meat and bones.

I've had people come in the studio that had been fit by other fitters and think, "oh my - that looks awful", but then after we're done, I learn about how they got where they did, and my version of their fit probably doesn't look much better. Long femurs and a short torso can be a challenge, for example. On the other hand, I also get some fits that look great from the side view, but the rider is uncomfortable and unable to sustain the position. I won't comment on how good or bad any of these look. There are certainly some that look nice and some look not-so-nice, but would like to get the rider into the studio before making any comment.

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

If they are in fact 23mm they are probably "blowing out" to 26-27mm on HED Wheels. If they are 25mm probably more like 28-29mm.

When I was running HED wheels w/ Force/Attack combo the 22/24mm tires were "blowing out" to 26-28mm.....

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

Yep that’s why I run 20mm SuperSonics. They blow out to 25mm on + rims and look perfect from aero perspective.

This one is my pick for wrong saddle award. Zero pelvic rotation whatsoever.

It's strange though, because that flash of blue on the saddle leads me to believe that it's an ISM Adamo - generally pretty easy to straighten out on.

It's actually a PN3.0.....

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

Ah great, glad my eyes aren't deceiving me.

Do you happen to know if she's new to the saddle? I remember it taking me a month or two to "get it" when I first bought an Adamo TT a handful of years ago.

That does depend largely on ones flexibility though. I use a PN3.0 saddle and don't look too different that this on my bike.

Not saying that this applies to Carrie but for me a 90 degree angle when sitting up is hyperextension - I can only sit straight up with something behind me otherwise I just ping backwards!

You just have to work with what you've got - no reason why you can't ride quickly in a position like that though and if that's the position you naturally fold up into there's no reason why it would ache.

Is it me or does there seem to be a lack of "superbikes" in the pro kona field, i.e. Cervelo P5X, Diamondback Andean, Ventum. Ok, I do see one Ventum :)

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"The first virtue in a soldier is endurance of fatigue; courage is only the second virtue."
- Napoleon Bonaparte

Ummm...the Canyon and Scott are definitely super bikes. The admittedly long-in-the-tooth Trek is still pretty much a super bike, especially with the latest version mods. So is the Felt IA, especially the new one with the deep fork, and disc brakes.

there were like five P5Xs in the male pro peleton.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Another important thing that effects this is the angle between the pelvis and thigh. Often the pelvis is tilted backward to keep this angle more open at the top of the stroke.

Tilting the saddle down reduces the ability to use the glutes and hamstrings, as using them effectively (force vector down and slightly back at the 90-180 crank angle) will tend to pull the rider forward... particularly with a forward saddle position. And as you mention, it needs to be countered with an opposing force. Maybe that works for some people, but it doesn't seem optimal.

I don’t see who would want that groupset. It’s not wireless in reality. You lose 1 wire from Di2. I certainly wouldn’t go with FSA over Shimano if all I’m losing is 1 wire.

BINGO! They gave them away to folks a few years ago to athletes and asked that they wear them during the race. Most participants at Kona are returning athletes so it makes sense that Rudy always has a strong showing.

Sorta like Cervelo. While they make great bikes, their dominance at the bike counts are likely due to athletes who bring the same gear over and over as opposed to actual new sales.

I don't know this athlete or how new she is to the saddle, but it's possible that it's the right saddle, she's just sitting on it in the wrong place because the saddle is positioned incorrectly. She's rounding her back in an exaggerated fashion, effectively shortening her reach, and still is sitting near the back of the saddle. Ideally she'd be sitting several cm further forward on the saddle, and be able to rotate her pelvis forward a bit more than it is now and have a less-rounded back. So, the saddle appears to be WAY too far forward for her to sit properly on it. There's room to slide the seat back quite a bit as it's set up now, but I'm not sure the Canyon allows it to go back far enough.

Or this is just a snapshot in time pic and she's in the middle of adjusting her position. Or she had some acute seat-area issue that precluded sitting on the seat where she should.

In 2015 Rudy was offering any athlete racing Kona a Wing57 for $100 the week prior. Original price tag on those was something absurd like $500.